Titles vs Favor

Ok now everyone may think I am crazy for coming up with this idea, but in the long run it would remove quite a bit of frustration for people who want to use elite missions for fun. This would include all elite missions not just UW and FOW.

Right now all of the people who do UW and FOW rely on two things first they rely on are title hunters (most of the time not them) to give them the ability to go into those missions. How is that fair to the title hunters? They do all the work and the farmer gets the rewards of it?? Sorry makes no sense to me. I am a title hunter yes I have 3 GWAMMs on my account. I did not grind because I was helping people on theirs too so it was fun to do. Anyway enough about me.

Ok here is my idea it will also cut down on running to get to the areas to do elite missions.
1. Make favor align with the KOBD title track
2. Make the favor alignment with the account like hard mode
3. If one toon gets KOBD link the account for that toon
4. The other toons automatically follow
5. Drop the 20 titles favor thing
6. Include all other elite missions the same as fow and uw
7. The other elite missions can stay free
8. Keep scrolls for bounties and such
This is the breakdown for elite missions to title for favor

Tomb of the Primeval Kings Titles = 5
Fissure of Woe Titles = 10
Urgoz and the Deep Titles =10
UW and GOA Titles = 15
Only one title holder on an account would be needed to do this. Elite missions should be earned not ran to. If the account has not opened these titles then the player should not be able to farm it without using a scroll. If the player can take all day and run elite missions they have time to title hunt for them also. Casual players can casually earn titles just like everyone else does if this idea is taken.

The reason the titles required are not all the same is the rewards from each area. Since UW and GOA give the most during them and at the end they deserve to be higher up on the list.

Do not give me this is not a fair thing actually it is fair and will open UW and FOW up for everyone without the fear of losing favor or running out of scrolls
Remember it is account wide just like getting hardmode it can be on multiple toons if you want, but the higher one is the only one that counts for it.

Although I agree that the favour method isn't a good thing, the discussion your trying to stir up is a very old one and has imo been resolved long time ago with the introduction of scrolls (and so giving access to the elite area's all the time). I think that if something like you are proposing was implemented back then instead of the scrolls it would be a good way of doing things. However Anet decided to leave the favour method and actually make it easier by implementing the scrolls. This now has been the case for many years and I think many people (your "farmers") would be pissed of if it would be introduced now. So to prevent a good portion of the community to rage quit the game: /notsigned

I have a feeling that soon you will see 'no favor' required to get to those places since everyone seems to be leaving the game--thus no one going for titles. (or anything else mentioned)

/not signed

Not everyone wants to hunt titles. A friend of mine played for 5 or 6 years, and maxed out 1 title on just 1 of his characters.
Pushing your way of playing onto others isn't very respectful.
Everybody can easily get scrolls, so you don't even need favor to enter uw/fow. I don't really see the problem with it after so many years.

How long was it we had uw/fow with almost unlimited time - and that was even after anet a yr or more ago reset it back.
Theres 30 titles used for gwamm - players just doing things can also get them titles without them having to title hunt.
Would you prefer it as it was before and uw/fow depended on which of the 3 err forces ( asia/euro and usa i think ) won and only then they had uw control - usa won then uw was accessable to those whose accounts were set to that place.
Wow wasnt it fun RELYING on your 'force' to make so many wins in HA - can recall times when uw was run by either usa or asia and euro barely got a look in.

Besides with all the time its been accessable you`d think everyone would be stockpiling scrolls to use - must be a million or 2 of the scrolls on players within gw and most of thats from bosses.

Btw what is Goa - ive never seen that term before

I can't get behind this idea.

@Spiritz: GoA = Gates of Anguish. Most people call it DoA, Domain of Anguish.

The only time Favor of the Gods was not flawed was when it was determined by wins in Hall of Heroes.

5 maxed titles on one character on an account is a pretty steep barrier to entry for new players. It's not worth the system being a self-reliant one.

Wait, what? That thing was broken as hell, the fact that they finally removed that bullshit was one of the better decisions Anet ever made. Did you even play back when that stuff was going? It was retarded. This quote should make it onto a 'dumbest thing you've heard on guru' list.

Anyway, onto the idea: I don't see what the problem is. There is no need to titlehunt anyway, you say 'let titlehunters do all the work while farmers get the money' which makes no sense, because the few people that still bother to do UW use scrolls 90% of the time. Not to mention that a lot of titlehunters are also UW/DoA farmer, or do you think none of us have GWAMMs? I know of 2 people that have 1 GWAMM for each profession, and they both farmed DoA like mad.

This thing solves nothing, mainly because there isn't a problem to fix in the first place.

I find it quite comical that someone who has barely been on the forums for three years has the audacity to question whether or not I played back when that system was present. Then again, what do you expect from a game that is phasing out and transitioning into a new stage of it's MMORPG life. The usual trolls who swooped in for the end of the game, such as yourself, will claim to have been an "ultra-leet-vet" of the platform at hand when in actuality they were probably still wetting their mattress, having stories read to them before bed and playing pee-wee football when the game came to fruition. Kudos to you.

That being said, HoH favor made the game exciting, fun and kept the player on the edge of their seat. Sitting in ToA, waiting for some lame-o IWAY build by Your Math Teacher [MATH], a blood spike by my old guild Souls of Glory [SoG], or a ranger spike by God's Trusted Assassins [GTA] (do these names ring a bell to you? probably not because you weren't present) to win tombs/halls was actually quite fun. Watching people countdown to the victory or loss taking effect was pretty enjoyable as well. It was what made this game intriguing, desirable and enjoyable at the time. The fact that there was some rivalry between nations or continents (Euros, Koreans, Americans) on an online massive multiplayer game gave this platform it's intrigue or cutting edge in terms of PvE/PvP. It was unprecedented for the time. Furthermore, getting a whisper from Player X asking if you could form a tombs group (being a fairly well known and prevalent HA'er at the time) so that they could gain access was thrilling. Getting paid to win favor so your PvE buddies on your guild could go reap the benefits. What a riveting concept. To date, Guild War's 1's PvP aspect is still trying to be one upped or even matched in other online games. This will never happen. A perfect balance between PvP and PvE was very attainable if not present in GW1 during the 'golden years'.

Continuing on, multiple ideas were raised that would have slightly "balanced" out entrance to UW/FoW for the lesser talented/button smashing players like yourself who had to ride the coattails of HA'ers in order to get into such desired areas. One of these ideas was to introduce scrolls at an extremely expensive price, not this miniscule fee that we have right now, thus making the armor or farming opportunity attainable only by those who could feasibly afford it. Alas, this was deemed unfair (probably by lesser tiered QQ'ers like you) and never came to light. Instead, we did away with Tombs deciding favor so the same old sub-par waffle players like yourself could max out some bottom of the barrel PvE title that would in turn let them into these aforementioned areas if enough max titles had been achieved at the time.

What a sad state GW1 has been left in. Let's hope the developers don't listen to too many of the players like yourself to the point where the game is catered for whiners and complainers like GW1 ended up being. Here's to hoping it doesn't carry on to GW2.

Cheers.

9/10 people who wanted to enter fow or uw couldn't even get past the Unworthy/zaishen NPCs if their life depeneded on it.
9/10 people wanted to and could win & hold halls didn't give a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about fow or uw beyond fissure armour, if at all.

No point in going down this road again. It's been done to death.

Not sure if srs?

You know what I mean.

The prestige chests (PvP strongboxes, AH, Zaishen, Dungeon) should have a new drop (rare in 'easy to reach/open' chests, less rare in harder ones) that when used sends a worldwide message with the name of the user (much like HA wins) and increases favor.

Something to give to the people and get some appreciation.

The Sigil trader could deal with them for those who do not care about showing off their victories by generating favor.

To the OP: have you ever thought guru registration date has nothing to do with how much you have been playing the game for? One could go his entire game life without even considering this forum at all, or only decide to register after many many years. Stop supposing.

The idea is terribad anyway, imho. You're forcing people to grind for titles, and many don't bother with titles at all. Would you keep all those out of elite areas? And as Shayne said, it's too much of a barrier for newbies.
The scrolls system is fine, as long as the supply doesn't run out. If it ever should, just make them buyable with infinite supply like normal merch stuff.

Tbh the only thing I really fear favour running out for is statues of gods. I know hardly anybody uses them now, but they're still a nice option. I like seeing them active.

The KOABD title track in itself should be the reward.
I like ideas about working hard to get something special, but this crosses a line.
This forces people to grind out titles just to get into certain parts of the game.
Thats exactly the opposite of what Anet wants.
Its not Grind Wars.
And your suggestion would just make it that way.
For someone like me, 15 titles is peanuts, as I have multiple GWAMMS.
But for other people it might be a barrier that is impossible to overcome.
I know people that have played since prophecies beta, played every day, but never cared to even max a single title.
Not everyone is a completionist, and those people would get punished with this suggestion.
Kudo's for thinking of something, but I do not think that this is the way to go.

Keep the favour the way it is OR revert it to old (acquired by HA wins). Don't make it by continents tho, just make it that each HoH win gives xx minutes of favour. That way the format might come back to life a bit.

Appreciation for... what, exactly? They haven't accomplished anything. It took a shitload of effort to get to Hall of Heroes, let alone win it, let alone win it 5 times in a row to change the favor of the gods. It was a literal achievement in every sense of the word, and their name being displayed to every player was a fitting reward for their effort and accomplishment.

Opening a chest and finding a rare item takes no skill, and isn't an accomplishment - there's nothing to be rewarded for, and certainly not enough to have their name displayed. The reward of opening the chest is the contents of the chest - whatever purple or gold item you manage to find. It's a reward balanced around the difficulty of the task - as in, it's not difficult at all to obtain or open those chests, so the rewards aren't as great.

Adding in a name display small drop chance item for opening a lockbox is pointless. Keep rewards meaningful and in perspective.

no what was sad was having to wait til we got favor so we could play an area of the game. i know those names cause i did halls and was part of one of those group we didnt care one way or another about favor we just wanted to win. i remember after i was done with pvp waiting days on end to be able to play uw or fow. no the title system was better always gave you the scroll route if not enough titles were earned. i havent waited a single minute to play one of those areas afterwards since the change

It was designed that way that you have to wait and earn the favour. That is the whole point of the system.

Apart from your horrific gramatical attempt at downplaying the significance of HoH, you sir, are the minority if you think that people didn't play tombs back in the day to win favor and get into FoW/UW. Winning was a bonus, seeing your name pop up across the game was cool, and being able to go into UW/FoW to farm ecto's and shards was the selling point at the infancy of this game.

Pretty sure 99% of everyone who did tombs/ha did it either 1) because they actually enjoyed it and/or 2) because they wanted (to farm) fame.

I wish I had there where-with-all to pull random statistics out of my ass just like you. Unfortunately, I can't bring myself to do it. While those statements are partially true, it is EASILY arguable that once again, for those that don't read, tombs upkeep and popularity in it's infancy was also largely dependent on the favor system being impacted by it.

Take it from someone who played tombs when it was first really starting to get played.

You're talking about a very brief period in the game, when things like shitting out 9001 fertile seasons was meta for holding halls, and quite possibly even before then during the earliest months of the game proper. It bears little relevance to what the motivation was for most of those actively doing it, and denying that fame/rank & the competition itself were by far the biggest alure of it is denying the truth.

I can't argue a point that you're obviously having a hard time wrapping your thick skull around.

People could care less about fame and rank at the infancy (shall I bold, underline and italicize this word for you?) of this game. Most people couldn't comprehend the basic schematics of PvP at this point. Fame was an obsolete number, titles were not around, and emotes were undefined by the amount of fame they required. Tombs was played for the thrill of winning fame, seeing your name flash across the screen in game worldwide..and again, for the sake of getting you and your PvE buddies into untapped, unexplored, unknown areas in the game such as UW/FoW (we're talking before 55 monks, before SS necros here).

Edit: This whole "tiff" between our arguments has been regarding this game in it's infancy which most people still playing today were not around for.

I still maintain my original argument that removing tombs favor was a big mistake.

then why when they got the emotes they flashed them at everyone. nope when i was doing tombs i was doing it cause i wanted to win get fame and rank and when i played fow or uw i didnt care. i think your wrong i never saw people in toa say lets form a group so we can win favor so we can play fow or uw nor did i ever see group say lets quite our streak to go play fow or uw. pvp and pve have never cared what either did and you could see that by the thread here on guru with complaints of adjusting skill for pvp versus the pve crowd. the exact reason why they split some skills.

You're talking about what? First 6 months of GW, which is 7 year old game. If you played back than it doesn't make you any better than people who started 6 months ago. Actually the ones who started later should be more skilled, simply because nowadays everyone knows what to do, everyone knows what to play (talking about serious HA players). And back in the old days, it was the smart ones who adapted faster against everyone else (complete newbies).
Also, I didn't care about winning or losing favour that much, sure it was cool to see it going away from the americans. I did care about fame because it was a challenge, it was a title to get, a final goal to achieve, and the best way of doing it was while actually having fun and competing against other players, and the best part of all that, at least for me was winning HoH and getting dozens of random people saying grats and all that, that is prolly what kept me going for all those years. I played HA almost since the beginning and I never abandoned it (ok I had 2x few months breaks but thats all). And I can say that HA was getting more and more competitive and fun as the years went by, and if it had its old activity now it would be more fun than ever.

But, I still think it would be a terrible idea to introduce the favour system as it was before. It would be heavily abused by all those german players using japanese or korean guild names, and I'm sure many more would follow their example just to look "cool".

Looks like you though I suggested any chest to drop such item, which I didn't suggest, and so I must assume that you didn't read what I wrote, but simply skimmed though it.
To understand a post, you must read it, I mean, actually read it. If you don't, when you answer a post someone else made, you won't be answering them, you'll be wasting everyone's time.

Anyways...

The only reason it was hard for some people to get to the Hall of Heroes was because there was quite some other people trying to do the same from all over the world.
It was the people and the competition what generated the need for skill, and people developed their skill in response to that.

Now there aren't that many people. And no matter what you do, you won't attract as many people there (or anywhere for that matter) anymore.
They switched to titles, but titles won't do it anymore either. As the flow of new players decreases and the existing ones have less and less titles to get.
That's why

So instead relying in people winning in the hall, or people getting achievements, you must make something that can be done by the people that is left, anytime even if they already got all titles, even if they are few, even if it's just one.

This means something that can be done even if it's solo, but not something too fast or too easy. Something like a dungeon or elite mission.
Those have usually a prestige chest at the end.
Just finishing the mission or winning at the HoH could do it, but even better than that, it would be to let people choose when they'll trigger the favor.
You can do that with an item they can keep and save.
That way, when you have time, you can use them all at once one after another, and activate the favor when you'll have use for it.
This also allows selling the item to those interested if you are not interested in favor.

And that's how you get to creating an item to increase favor, and making it drop from Prestige Chests like The Underworld Chest; the chest that should be added at the end of Tombs of Primeval kings but it's not there; the Citadel Chest; and, of course, the chest in the actual HA, because it's alaso a prestige chest with unique drops, and it's HA, and it only makes sense to have a source of favor also there, even if it's just for nostalgia.
As not all 'prestige' chests are as 'prestigious', the rarity of the drop would have to be higher the easier the chest is to get. For example, Fronis' and the Wintersday Past chests won't drop it, as they are insultingly easy, while chest that might drop it would have a higher chance in HM, and the HA and Tombs chests would have a 100% chance to drop one for each player, being the one ones which would have such a high chance.

Then, once they have the item, they can either use it, sell it or, I don't know, shove it up their noses if they want.
They could even make that lazy-ass of the Sigil trader deal with them, so he was something else to do, and people have it easier to buy the stuff from others.

When you use one of these, you'll get less effect than with HA wins or titles, as they'll be slightly easier to get, even if they are rare drops.
Something like 60 scrolls being used (regardless of who uses them) to start favor, and +1 minutes of favor for each additional one used.

As an extra bonus, those who use the scroll would get a system message with their names, so people can know who's the guy they have to thank for the favor being activated.


From my experience, people that skim though text and answer with nonsense will do it repeatedly, so you'll probably skim through the text again and answer with more nonsense, but oh, well, at least this "extended explanation" of my solution to the problem will be there for others to see.

The way I see it, you (individually) won favor of the gods when you ascended. IMO, this should now be the only requirement to enter the elite areas, perhaps with an additional cost of 1k for all, except ToPK. I have pretty much gotten all the titles I want, but I would still like to get FoW armor for my main character. I don't need/want to start another title chaser to gain access to UW or FoW.

1) Cool your jets. I didn't say anyone that played back in the day was more of a skilled player. In their, and my defense, most of those players had the IQ to see the game going in the wrong direction and jumped ship to better, more intriguing games and platforms. Kudos to them. GW2 will be a mere fraction of PvP prowess/presence than GW1 was. Fact, not opinion.Secondly, players back in the day had the creativity to come up with new builds, try new things and see what worked and didn't. Even though I did not state it in my previous point, players who played in the infancy were simply more creative, more attuned, and yes, more skilled than players today. Like you said, players today know what to do. And why is that? Because players of yesteryear gave them the ability to run all kinds of fun builds through their creativity in trying new ideas. They did not have a build, a template code, an armor upload handed to them on a silver plate like today. They tried new skills, applied new armors, and tested new theories to see if they worked. That is not present today. With a simple click I can upload armor, a set of skills and enter HoH and hold halls for as long as I can button smash. But I digress, that is neither here nor there in terms of this argument.

2) Continuing on, you represent an extreme minority in the HA community if you think that the way tombs was going in terms of progression from 8v8 to 6v6 back to 8v8, multiple map changes/introductions, from holding an altar to relic runs and the countless other pure garbage introduced into it was "more competitive and fun as the years went on". Again, fact not opinion. Look at the HA population today which is A) non-existent B) only populated during double point reward systems/quest. This is a direct result of the "let's fix what ain't broken" mentality by developers that killed HA. Sure, skills need nerfing once in a while but formats need not be changed. Holding required skill, timing, communication..a lot of different constituents to go your way. Capturing a relic did not - it required an extremely lag-filled map in Halls, body blocking with tons of spirits and lag filled teams combined with the last of organized groups of cronies or friends deciding to gank one team in order to battle it out. Oh joy, what fun. Luckily players like myself had the where-with-all to run some kind of spike that was near perfect and hard to catch (ie: blood spike). I would argue that there were more interesting builds back in the day (even with all the IWAY garbage) than the SWAY/Thumperway/VIMWAY you saw towards the end of any populated HA district. At least then you had people thinking on their toes to come up with an Ele ball, ranger spike, blood spike, dual smite, monk spike, balance, etc etc..instead of the same old waffle Balance, SWAY..rinse repeat that you saw in 09' when HA was actually last active.

Favor relying on tombs wins in HoH and then subsequently being switched to title farming/grinding is a classic example of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

It is a moot point, really, to try and argue that it should be switched back to the old way or to some new way. It is clear, and understandably so, that GW1 is on the backburner and will most likely fade into mediocrity within the next year as a result of the release of GW2.

It was broken and you do nothing but repeat "no it wasn't".
You simply live in a fantasy world and no reasoning is going to take you away from there.
You claim people won favor to then go FoW/UW. Let's assume this happened regularily (it didn't but whatever), this at any time only affects 8 players out of the thousands of players, who wanted to go there.
So you're saying that a comparably extremely small group of maybe 100 players overall should be catered to at the expense of hundreds of thousands of other players, who are simply frustrated by this system, because they can only join a fraction of the time, they build groups but have to disband because favor changed, they agreed to meet but the favor was somewhere else at the time and so on.
You now call these people dumb, because they cannot go into Tombs and win the favor. This is both the most elitist and stupidest thing I ever heard on guru.

Agreed.

It was changed because there was a distinct dichotomy in the playerbase between PvE and PvP that Anet had not accounted for when they designed the game. Ultimately, the PvE playerbase felt that access to PvE content should not be dependent upon PvP content, especially when it was high end PvE content in a game that didn't have an end game or anything more challenging at the time. Eventually Anet agreed and changed the method of accessing UW/FOW.

It was the same reason they fixed the mechanic of having to play PvE to unlock skills and such for use in PvP. Both may not have been broken mechanics in the base sense of the term, but were badly designed mechanics that were subsequently fixed.

Hanok

Guild Wars was designed from the ground up as a PvP game. The PvE campaign was merely an introduction to the basic mechanics and a means to unlock skills - the intended endgame *was* the PvP content.

(This is fact, by the way, not conjecture or opinion - it's how the game was built, and ANet devs discuss how the game was designed around PvP in several interviews).

You could have also just pointed towards the 3 crystal desert missions as examples.

Oh I know :3

Flag running in maguuma missions, relic running, priest annihilation and king of the hill game types introduced in crystal desert (and you got dumped right into tombs/HA at the end of it). ANet's intention was obvious, but some people still manage to miss it somehow.

The thing about the past is... well... It's past.

How the game originally was is mostly irrelevant when it comes to current designs, the same way you don't look at how a city was several years ago when you are planning a building, because there might be new buildings, and so you must see not only how the city is, but how the city will be along other building projects other people is making.

Still, you might keep in mind how the city was, if you want to stick to it's 'essence', but that's it.



In the same way, you might keep in mind that hall wins were the only source of favor, and add it back there, but you can't count on people going there anymore, and so you must put other alternate sources available to those not doing PvP.


Therefore, an item in prestige chests(Dungeon, Elite mission and PvP chests and maybe even lockboxes) is the best viable option as of now, as anyone that has reached the higher end content of the game is bound to open one of those once in a while.
Having a 100% guaranteed drop per player of such an item in the HoH chest (both the one in HA and the one in Tombs of Primeval Kings) would be an extra touch that would make sure that they are still the main source of favor as they once were.

I really dislike it when people who played the game for first year or two and then abandoned it, come back and think they have all the knowledge in the world. Beginnings of GW weren't as good, the game got way more advanced since then.
@Renowned Spartan - old HoH holding mode sucked, op builds designed just for that would be holding for hours. Sure, people would spend time making builds, but that was just because they didn't have enough knowledge to make a good, working build. These days people know which skills work and which don't, and they still do keep trying to make new builds. Only difference is that now they won't make completely rubbish builds like newbies in the past used to. Would you say that newborn baby is smarter than 7 year old kid? Your point just fails. Everyone was a newbie and "stupid" in beginning, but people advanced now and they did learn how to play.
And of course the HA population is low, it is because entire GW population is low, the game is dying, now that is a fact. It can't be proved by clear facts and figures (pure statistics) unlike your "facts".

HoH wins favour system was bad, it was so easily abused. Sure, I had fun waking up in the mornings and instantly taking the favour from silly yanks, but pve people didn't have fun at all. It was just unfair.
Just keep the favour as it is, it will for for another month at least since people will grind titles for GW 2 (read: WoW 2).

I was a newbie once, you were a newbie once, do you know what you're talking about anyway??

This game died long time ago, hello? It's been around for 7 years? Duh!

Can't compare GW2 and WoW... one is b2p other p2p, and everything is different, they might looks similar... but they are both MMORPG's..

needles to say: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltjqipG2Vx1qje3w7.png

Oh, I know, though I have also seen comments in the past from the devs that would indicate it was also a PvE focused game. However, it is an absolute that PvP was supposed to be the end game, and hence my comment about the dichotomy of the playerbase being unforseen by the devs design of the game (though in truth it shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone), and my related comments thereafter.

3 silver zcoin gives you a scroll, no need favor. Everyone bring 1 silver zcoin for the run. What so hard? Doing Zmission?