Icy Veins heroes set-up

loopysnoopy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2010

England

The Ministery Of Cookies (MC)

W/Mo

18 Jul 2012 at 14:31 - 1

Hi guys if you are looking at this I thank you in advance for taking some time to look over this.

Disclaimer this build(s) would be no good for the general Gwpvx site so it is here where I post it

Start off with the main 3 heroes:

first of all lets talk about the elite that I'm using it is a very defensive elite
so this then tells the user what type of 7h build we are aiming for.

The Main 3
Weaponizing/Runing them up:

The Icy Curser: Armor: Survivor Insignias, Vitae Runes, Vigor Runes.
Superior Soul Reaping on the head and a minor Curses rune on either boots or gloves.
Weapons: 40/40 Restoration set,Bogroots Resto Staff(GREEN)

Main Icy Bomber: survivor and one Bloodstained Insignia, Vitae Runes, Vigor Runes. Head Superior Soul Reaping on the head, Minor Death rune on hands or boots
Weapons: +30hp Spear/Shield(caster set) or 40/40 Death Magic Set,60hp Death Staff

2ndry Icy Bomber: same gear as the main bomber he has an extra weapon to choose from any Resto staff .

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Now for the other parts of your team

The Panic Mesmer is a defensive shut down Atts for this are: 16 domination(12+3+1), 11 inspiration(10+1) and 9 fast casting(8+1)

The general gear for the mesmer but you need a 40/40 wand/offhand to get the best results.

If Panic is too defensive try:
Energy Surge Atts for this are: 16 domination(12+3+1), 11 inspiration(10+1) and 9 fast casting(8+1)

again the gear is pretty much the same as the panic mesmer
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Illusion Mesmer

The elite is of preference:
Ineptitude
Shared Burden
Stolen Speed
Psychic Instability

Atts are as follows: 16 Illusion(12+1+3), 9 Inspiration(8+1), 9 Fast Casting(8+1) and 7 in command
The usual gearing up for the illusion and for best results 40/40 illusion set wand/offhand

SoS-Signet of Spirits

Atts: 16 channeling(12+1+3), 13 restoration(12+1), 4 Spawning(3+1)
Gear: The usual stuff applies here Weapon Spear/sheild or a staff

optional slot is for:
Splinter weapon-if you are melee
Painful Bond

The last slot can be what ever you need as in RoJ smite monk with SoH or another Mesmer,Ritu........... That choice I leave up to you.

Places where this has been tested with great success and I don't count high end elite Dungeons; DoA,Urgoz,The Deep,UW or FoW But I have tested them in DoA,FoW,Urgoz and The Deep.

The main areas I have used them is Vloxen excavations Dungeon Hm,Tarnish Coast VQ all of WoC HM and NM and many other areas.

Template codes:
OAhjYsHWIP1M7AiASM5kmDzLG Necro 1
OANDYbpvS1MVBoBbh1DaRBEtE Necro 2
OAhjYoFYIT1MVBbhDTSTTOjTXM Necro 3
OQhDIMgjO0ghQOY6t8zAEhLG Panic
OQBDA4oCPnghQOY6hTNdZAiA E-Surge
OQlkYeB8ACgEAwKQeGCIJQGARwOG Illu mes
OAOjIyhM5MXzWS5kZ6NBADzJH Spirit Spammer

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A readdress to some of the issues that has been pointed out; note these have not been tested as of yet so I'll list some optionals for each bar that I've readdressed.

The list may change depending on feed back...
Bar 1:

Optional 1: Shatter Hex or Shatter Enchant

Optional 2: WnWn or Hex Eater Sig

Bar 2:

Optional 1: Curses: Chillblains,Barbs,MoP,Rip Enchant,Weaken Armour| Resto: Weapon of Warding, any resto spirit, or even Masocism for bigger damage from Icy Veins

Bar 3:

Optional 1: Convert Hexes, Reverse Hex,Sheild of Absortion,Spirit Bond, Reversal of Fortune,Extinguish

Any other improvements just

Any feed back or improvements you think can be brought to the table with out re-building what I have posted is greatful.

Premium Unleaded

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

18 Jul 2012 at 17:00 - 2

No point in running 10 prot if you're not going to take shield of absorption. Drop it to 9 for aegis breakpoint.
I'd take reverse hex instead of remove hex on the nec if taking it at all, just because of the faster cast. This is just my preference though.
No point in chilblains, especially if your mesmers rey on drain enchant for part of their energy. I'd put life in for it and on the other nec put in putrid bile or some other attack spell.

loopysnoopy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2010

England

The Ministery Of Cookies (MC)

W/Mo

18 Jul 2012 at 17:43 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded;5712404[B

]No point in running 10 prot if you're not going to take shield of absorption.[/B] Drop it to 9 for aegis breakpoint.
I'd take reverse hex instead of remove hex on the nec if taking it at all, just because of the faster cast. This is just my preference though.
No point in chilblains, especially if your mesmers rey on drain enchant for part of their energy. I'd put life in for it and on the other nec put in putrid bile or some other attack spell. bolded parts are what I'll answer as I've got a few theory's on this;

Point 1: Spirit Bond is in place of SoA and 10 in prot may seem a waste but at 10 prot any damage over 50 you get healed for 70 while at 9prot you get healed for 66 does not seem much but in a tight spot its quite nice but yer swap it out for SoA if you'd like

Point 2: enchant VS non enchant hex removal debateble not going to say anything more on that.

Point 3: chillblains and drain enchant are quite nice together again if you don't like chillblains remove it and swap around life as you said.

So far thanks for the replys

Drk Dervish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2012

D/W

18 Jul 2012 at 22:06 - 4

That 1 low attib single FB is kind of odd in your team. IMO running MM team with FB don't really mix at all because your not taking advantage of the skill at all if any. MM itself already lack behind in normal team spped. Add FB making them even lack more behind of your team when your moving from group to group. It's like hurry up and wait kind of deal.

Your no joke it when you say you like to play defensive elite the entire team is a super defensive team. 2 MM bomber + Panic + 3 "set" of rit spot healing skills, and 4 hex removal skill, man you got enough protection and healing to cover a 12 men team ^^.

Since you already have mes with point in inspiration line (11 pts IMO to much) why not get one of those mes (panic because he got 3 insp skill for energy, 1 skill to much IMO) to carry a Hex eater signet. At your level of inspiration pts you should be able to take out 2 hex removal skills.

loopysnoopy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2010

England

The Ministery Of Cookies (MC)

W/Mo

18 Jul 2012 at 22:20 - 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drk Dervish
That 1 low attib single FB is kind of odd in your team. IMO running MM team with FB don't really mix at all because your not taking advantage of the skill at all if any. MM itself already lack behind in normal team spped. Add FB making them even lack more behind of your team when your moving from group to group. It's like hurry up and wait kind of deal.

Your no joke it when you say you like to play defensive elite the entire team is a super defensive team. 2 MM bomber + Panic + 3 "set" of rit spot healing skills, and 4 hex removal skill, man you got enough protection and healing to cover a 12 men team ^^.

Since you already have mes with point in inspiration line (11 pts IMO to much) why not get one of those mes (panic because he got 3 insp skill for energy, 1 skill to much IMO) to carry a Hex eater signet. At your level of inspiration pts you should be able to take out 2 hex removal skills. Truth be told the MM lagging behind is not an issue here and yes hex eater signet is nice but my self I like rapid hex removal

The 1 fall bk to me is just a little pick me up nothing more then that.

As I pointed out its very defensive but by not taking panic and bring E-surge the damage to defensive is above normal.

KotCR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

[DVDF]

P/

18 Jul 2012 at 22:47 - 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopysnoopy
I'm using it is a very defensive elite
Icy Veins is defensive? It's a purely offensive skill with no defensive component to it. Granted, the builds you've tagged it onto are defensive...but I certainly wouldn't say the elite itself is.

It is a good way of tagging some offensive power onto an otherwise defensive attribute spread being as it's in Soul Reaping though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drk Dervish
Since you already have mes with point in inspiration line (11 pts IMO to much) 11 points is fine for Inspiration magic; It's generally what I run on my Mesmers too. 11 is an important break point for several skills in the line; If you are running multiple 10+ energy cost skills (or some spammable 5e cost skills) it's a very important breakpoint to meet IMO.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

18 Jul 2012 at 22:58 - 7

3x Icy Veins? With 5s cooldown on IV and the fact that AI doesn't cast Icy Veins on a target already hexed with Icy Veins, isn't this less than ideal?

Chilbains definitely wasted (25e on a healing hero too) - if you need to take out enchantments, use Shatter Enchant + Drain Enchant on your Dom Mesmers.

Drk Dervish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2012

D/W

18 Jul 2012 at 23:01 - 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by KotCR
11 points is fine for Inspiration magic; It's generally what I run on my Mesmers too. 11 is an important break point for several skills in the line; If you are running multiple 10+ energy cost skills (or some spammable 5e cost skills) it's a very important breakpoint to meet IMO. Yes you just hit it on the spot, but those 3 mes only Spiritual pain is consider spammable mes skill. All the rest is not really spammable. Just that 2 shatter hex would be seating there looking pretty same with res (hero would use removal hex first, before shatter). Ai don't really spam panic since it a long cover hex (however SD would fix that issue). So in turn the bar got 2 to 3 e-management skill at pts 11 to support 2 non spammable skill I think the bar get away at just 9.

loopysnoopy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2010

England

The Ministery Of Cookies (MC)

W/Mo

19 Jul 2012 at 00:10 - 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
3x Icy Veins? With 5s cooldown on IV and the fact that AI doesn't cast Icy Veins on a target already hexed with Icy Veins, isn't this less than ideal?

Chilbains definitely wasted (25e on a healing hero too) - if you need to take out enchantments, use Shatter Enchant + Drain Enchant on your Dom Mesmers.

Not really no I have found that heroes do cast icy veins on other monsters but not as much as any one would like.

Chillblains the hero AI is a tad slow on using this skill and energy-management on this hero in particular is great.

every one is seeming to forget you are only taking one of the dom mesmers not both of them as if you are taking both both bars would need a full re-think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drk Dervish
Yes you just hit it on the spot, but those 3 mes only Spiritual pain is consider spammable mes skill. All the rest is not really spammable. Just that 2 shatter hex would be seating there looking pretty same with res (hero would use removal hex first, before shatter). Ai don't really spam panic since it a long cover hex (however SD would fix that issue). So in turn the bar got 2 to 3 e-management skill at pts 11 to support 2 non spammable skill I think the bar get away at just 9. 11 in inspiration means there is always energy there from the large return 9 in fast casting is a break-point anyways so I don't see your argument

again look above from the quote from jeydra you are only taking 1 dom mes that Ive listed otherwise it would be duel esurge with shatter's

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

19 Jul 2012 at 10:44 - 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopysnoopy
Not really no I have found that heroes do cast icy veins on other monsters but not as much as any one would like.

Chillblains the hero AI is a tad slow on using this skill and energy-management on this hero in particular is great.

every one is seeming to forget you are only taking one of the dom mesmers not both of them as if you are taking both both bars would need a full re-think. Why not use Discord then? You would immediately upgrade 2/3 of your Necros.

As for Chillblains, even if you use only one Dom Mes you can easily slot in dual enchant removal on that hero. For example, with this bar you simply take out WNWN for Hex Eater Sig and replace Shatter Hex with Shatter Enchant - keeps the energy management and the hex removal both. If you are worried about energy management when there are no hexes, you could simply drop hex removal on the Mesmer entirely, since you already have two copies of Remove Hex anyway.

loopysnoopy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2010

England

The Ministery Of Cookies (MC)

W/Mo

19 Jul 2012 at 11:34 - 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
Why not use Discord then? You would immediately upgrade 2/3 of your Necros.

As for Chillblains, even if you use only one Dom Mes you can easily slot in dual enchant removal on that hero. For example, with this bar you simply take out WNWN for Hex Eater Sig and replace Shatter Hex with Shatter Enchant - keeps the energy management and the hex removal both. If you are worried about energy management when there are no hexes, you could simply drop hex removal on the Mesmer entirely, since you already have two copies of Remove Hex anyway. 1# Discord has been tried and tested now for years and I don't want to use discord as its varies of the situation certain requirements have to be met

2# Shatter Hex has some nice damage added to the mix whilst Hex eater removes a clumped amount of hexes and the way you are saying remove 1 shatter for another is a possibility. On the main Icy bomber remove his hex removal then we have 2 removal skills. As I've said the places where I've tested this had lots and lots of hexes been lobbed around and I like to be clean.

Please look back at main post as I've made some changes to the bars already mentioned to be weak!

Drk Dervish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2012

D/W

19 Jul 2012 at 13:06 - 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopysnoopy
11 in inspiration means there is always energy there from the large return 9 in fast casting is a break-point anyways so I don't see your argument

again look above from the quote from jeydra you are only taking 1 dom mes that Ive listed otherwise it would be duel esurge with shatter's I'm just saying if your bar isn't a heavy energy bar there is not reason to take 11 for more energy. And no FC unlike more attrib pts there really no breaking pts per say depend how you look at it. Your just looking at the break point of cast time which after 9 is down to -3% (from -4%) per point. But the recharge time is always 3% less per point (which what you should consider with), and casting speed actually is about the same -7% until you hit 12 (8%). i.e there would be never enough FC pts IMO. So if you can get pass with Inpt 9 I would do it and pump FC. There nothign wrong with at 11 i do it myself when i not using bip but by entire bar is damage skill with only 2 e management skill.

loopysnoopy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2010

England

The Ministery Of Cookies (MC)

W/Mo

19 Jul 2012 at 13:18 - 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drk Dervish
I'm just saying if your bar isn't a heavy energy bar there is not reason to take 11 for more energy. And no FC unlike more attrib pts there really no breaking pts per say depend how you look at it. Your just looking at the break point of cast time which after 9 is down to -3% (from -4%) per point. But the recharge time is always 3% less per point (which what you should consider with), and casting time actually give more bonus as you go pass 9 pts. i.e there would be never enough FC pts IMO. So if you can get pass with Inpt 9 I would do it and pump FC. There nothign wrong with at 11 i do it myself when i not using bip but by entire bar is damage skill with only 2 e management skill. The problem with this is inspiration at 11 for me is quite handy as any energy denile or interrupts against said mesmers highest costing spell its takes the energy away so I like it where I have 1 spell that gives bk a lot more energy then needed a waste yes.....

I should also note that with a 40/40 set-up on the mesmers anything past 9 fast casting is redundant. Again you could just drop inspiration to 9+1 and fast casting to 9+1 points but I don't see any improvements on that.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fast_Casting
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/40/40

Drk Dervish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2012

D/W

19 Jul 2012 at 13:57 - 14

I guess you just proof your point of redundancy, most ppl post build on here I always take your hero is maxed out with rune and weapon no need to tell me about 40/40. Actually you just proof the point for redundancy even with 40/40 only 12.96% chance would trigger so the rest of the 88% having a faster recharge/cast time would hurt if you can get it.

Anyways just a player style either way is not a big deal. Cant say no to more energy it more of playing safe or pushing them to peaking point.

loopysnoopy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2010

England

The Ministery Of Cookies (MC)

W/Mo

19 Jul 2012 at 15:13 - 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drk Dervish
I guess you just proof your point of redundancy, most ppl post build on here I always take your hero is maxed out with rune and weapon no need to tell me about 40/40. Actually you just proof the point for redundancy even with 40/40 only 12.96% chance would trigger so the rest of the 88% having a faster recharge/cast time would hurt if you can get it.

Anyways just a player style either way is not a big deal. Cant say no to more energy it more of playing safe or pushing them to peaking point. Hi this is going to sound weird but my reading skills are poor I'm having trouble to understand what you are driving me towards, so sorry for been a bit dumb. Can you explain a bit clearer please

what I can sort of make out from this you are saying 40/40 and 9fast cast still is meh?

Drk Dervish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2012

D/W

19 Jul 2012 at 17:20 - 16

i'm just saying that having a 40/40 doesn't necessary mean having high FC is redundant. Becuase FC is a solid base of reduction, weapon set is a chance for reduction. Yes if 40/40 is trigger it make FC useless because of the stacking cap. But when is not trigger (~according to wiki 64% not trigger for HCT or HCR, the chance of triggering both effect is even less). Any effect that is not trigger then FC would come in for use.

Yes is not a big percent (+3%/pts HCR, ~4%/pts HCT) adding couple point to FC but just saying if you can it wouldn't hurt.

Only redundant between 40/40 and FC is if FC is at 15 pts. Then it would make it redundant to take a 40/40 set because your base reduction is already at 50% maxed cap, making 40/40 useless.

loopysnoopy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2010

England

The Ministery Of Cookies (MC)

W/Mo

19 Jul 2012 at 17:29 - 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drk Dervish
i'm just saying that having a 40/40 doesn't necessary mean having high FC is redundant. Becuase FC is a solid base of reduction, weapon set is a chance for reduction. Yes if 40/40 is trigger it make FC useless because of the stacking cap. But when is not trigger (~according to wiki 64% not trigger for HCT or HCR, the chance of triggering both effect is even less). Any effect that is not trigger then FC would come in for use.

Yes is not a big percent (+3%/pts HCR, ~4%/pts HCT) adding couple point to FC but just saying if you can it wouldn't hurt. Thanks for making your post clearer.

I'm going to test later on with upping fast cast to 9+1 same with inspiration to see if it yields any better results

Atm I don't see any difference on the paper so i need to test it out ie test on paper how fast can i get panic off etc

Drk Dervish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2012

D/W

19 Jul 2012 at 17:37 - 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopysnoopy
Thanks for making your post clearer.

I'm going to test later on with upping fast cast to 9+1 same with inspiration to see if it yields any better results

Atm I don't see any difference on the paper so i need to test it out ie test on paper how fast can i get panic off etc Every doubtful you can tell the different in FC (unless is like different of 5 pts) =). Unless you run lot detail time test. But however you can tell if your mes is ok with run less inspiration pts, if your hero always carry a surplus of energy ie (+10-15e) then you can try push them a little low on your inspiration pts, or maybe take out a e-management skill for another damage skill. But that just me tho I like to push my mes .

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

19 Jul 2012 at 17:54 - 19

In other words, as far as I know, the 40/40 set would not stack with fast casting. Meaning that at level 9 fast casting, you would not get 73% x 50% = 36.5% recharge time in pve. You also would not get a 66% x 50% = 33% casting time.

They are mutually exclusive so if your HCT fires, you get 50%, otherwise you get 66% at level 9 FC. Similarly for your HSR. You either choose to take your chances with your 40/40 and match that with low fast casting or pump up your fast casting to a decent level and match that with weapons giving you +energy/+hp/+armor.

Whatever choice you make, if you have a high FC level it makes a 40/40 set redundant.

loopysnoopy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2010

England

The Ministery Of Cookies (MC)

W/Mo

19 Jul 2012 at 18:26 - 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
In other words, as far as I know, the 40/40 set would not stack with fast casting. Meaning that at level 9 fast casting, you would not get 73% x 50% = 36.5% recharge time in pve. You also would not get a 66% x 50% = 33% casting time.

They are mutually exclusive so if your HCT fires, you get 50%, otherwise you get 66% at level 9 FC. Similarly for your HSR. You either choose to take your chances with your 40/40 and match that with low fast casting or pump up your fast casting to a decent level and match that with weapons giving you +energy/+hp/+armor.

Whatever choice you make, if you have a high FC level it makes a 40/40 set redundant. Thanks that sort of backed up my theory from what I've been getting result wise

I still reckon the 9 in fast casting is worth the risk

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