Trading System Warning.

Today I had someone offer me some platinum for my black dye. They then said they were short by a couple of k, and instead of 30k for 3 of them, they woud give me 29k 750 and a few items. They then played around with the items five or six times. When they were I had a warning that they trade had been changed inspect it carefully, but aside from that, the rest of the box had gone black, so I could not see things anymore to inspect them so had to trust and hit accept. Sure enough the plat was now only 3 plat... got ripped off, but really the in game trade system facilitated it by it going black in the middle of the trade.


I had been playing just to fill my HoM before GW2,since the last beta weekend. Don't see myself getting anywhere after this. Heck with it.

What do you mean the box was completely black? Where you unable to see anything at all? If so, it was very stupid of you to actually accept the trade, it was obviously a scam. When I trade with someone I have a rule that if they cancel or change the thing I always inspect it carefully and if they do it more than 2 times, I either just cancel and don't bother cause they might be trying to just scam me anyway.

Yeah, I mean the trade box area went to dark to see it anymore. Not sure how that was obviously a scam in itself. Seemed more a game graphical bug, but guess it is known then and exploited. Never had people try to scam over low value pixels before. Glad I learned that is what the GW community is then so soon then, if that is common and well known. I made a guess that is was a graphical glitch.. guess I guessed wrong...

Scams are common and happen often, there can't be a 100% scam proof trading system. The fact that the other person kept changing the offer several times would have lit the red warning lights on my end, but then I've made quite a few trades in the past years.

If it was darkened, it was probably saying the warning that the trade might have been changed, please check carefully before accepting.
imo, you were scammed because you didnt check, after getting a warning.

Yes, this is exactly it. However it was frustrating, as it was then too dark to check. I waited a bit to see if it would change color to become readable again. I was going to check without the warning. The warning making it too dark to then see what inspect is bad. How can you turn that off, I would be better off with a visible trade window and not a warning that can not be followed. I was scammed because I could not check since it was now too dark to read and had no way to check it at that point, so had to pick cancel or accept and picked the wrong one. I was frustrated that I could not check, would have had it been readable. Also frustrated that it is the first time I had to trust someone in a trade and found that trust is the wrong choice.

Well, you're dealing with other human beings, and as in any trade situation, you will eventually run into rotten apples that just want to scam you. You're just going to have to report them I suppose.

I guess (on reporting them). Not sure it is a violation though, since I figured I was glitched and did agree to the trade. What I am wondering at the moment though is, if it going to dark to see was something they glitched somehow purposely, a weird glitch I happened to hit, the way my system will always show that box, or the normal way it winds up being for all.

First of all, the warning will go away when you mouseover the other party's par tof the box. Second off al. Never trust them and click accept without knowing what it is.

Last of all, file a report at http://www.guildwars.com/support/default.php. This is clearly scamming and therefor not allowed by the rules. So if they can reproduce the situation, they will very likely ban the other party. Make sure you include as much evidence as possible, like screenshots of the chat (where it is saying what eventually was traded), what the other party's name is, what the time was, what the outpost/town/area was, what district it was. Basicly everything that makes it easier for them to find this event back in the log.

I had a simular situation a year ago where I was buying Nicholas the traveler items. It was an item that has a simular name and I only checked the name of the item and not the icon (I was in a hurry). I filed a report and 4 days later I got a reply that the other person's account was banned. Even if you don't have all the information, still file a report. All bits helps to stop these kind of people. It won't bring you money back but still.

If you are making a trade, and the other person changes the trade items, reject the trade!

If they are a human, and not trying to scam you, then they should be more than willing to do a "straight up" trade, where the trade contents are not modified after submission.

If they get all upset, then they were trying to scam you, and you just saved yourself some grief.

Pretty simple, really...

It darkens when they change the items and lights back up when you move the cursor over to check what the items have changed too. They were definitely trying to scam.

Actually I did try moving the cursor over the window. No effect.

Actually all it would have taken is a system that did not blacken the trade window and leave no obvious way to check the trade.

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I did mouse over it with no effect. Did I also need to click on it?

I will have to see if I can get someone to do a trade of a gold or something and let me try to figure out how to unblacken it I think.

I did report them. Seems a bit silly over the amount at first, but it may be nice if it helps remove them from getting someone else later.

Well OP was certainly silly to accept the trade; but what can you say about such an idiotic warning that makes it difficult to check what the warning is telling you to?

It seems that there are people that play the game for reasons other than enjoying the game.

Some "play" just to find bugs and glitches to exploit, others are just looking for people
to talk to.

Then there are the ones that just want to screw with people. Cheat them, con them, just get
over on them in any way they can. It fills some need ... that IS the game to them. Maybe they
fail in RL finance and this is a way to make up for that.

It's not much different than the ones that can't find friends in RL spending all day in LA
or GTOB hanging out with their "friends".

Since there's no way to know what other peoples motivations are in playing the game. You just
have to be careful.

I think Anet's made it fairly hard for you to be cheated through the interface, but you have
to do your part.

I ALWAYS cancel a trade if the other guy changes anything. If he's not up to no good, he
shouldn't have a problem with restarting the session.

Always take screencaps of your trades before you accept. Also, increase gamma of the game a bit. Also, there are many, many scammers in this game. When you see someone messing with items like that, just cancel the trade, call him a scammer and move on. If someone really wants to trade, they'll just do it, without complicating anything.

The actual darkening and a warning is probably designed so a players HAS to check whats changed in the trade.
Forget about feeling stupid/silly etc , you are not the first person nor will be the last person to be scammed this way in gw.
The reason you need check is simple - if A was trading with B and A changed stuff to scam , B instead of seeing a warning etc just didnt bother checking and just clicked accept it would be their own fault.
If i met you on a street and was holding a non marked box and tried to sell you it - you would want to know whats inside the box first .
When it comes down to trading - untill you are 100% of the correct trade never hit accept untill 100% sure.Not every person is a scammer but its always best to be safe - and if the other person is 100% legit they wont mind you taking a few extra secs to check things are right.

OP- Are you 110% sure that the window did NOT lighten up when you moved over it? did you keep the mouse over the other players window?

Yes. Though it was pretty brief that I kept it over the window. I had it over the warning text. It may have still been my part of the window. I had also read the 90 page or so booklet that came with the game, and the wiki before playing. I looked again at the booklet, it does not even mention the trading system. Nor does the wiki warn about the window going dark like that.

I have played at least a dozen mmo's and never before had the trade window become unreadable with no obvious way to change it back before during a trade. I am sure if I get a chance to try again and can find someone to put the window back into that state, knowing know that it is not a glitch and can be undarkened I will figure out how to do so.

I knew I was taking a risk, but felt the game had forced me to do so to complete the trade by going dark on that window like that. I had already canceled once and told the person it was due to me trying to figure out the trade system. I felt loth to cancel again even though I was tempted when it went dark like that on me. Also since it was the starting area, and not the end game, it is the place to learn how to work the systems, with stuff that is really not so valuable. So it did work in that sense, but I really feel this behavior should be better documented in the manual and wiki, as well as something in game to have indicated how the heck to brighten the window again.

Don't hesitate to cancel a trade you can't verify as legit, especially if the other person is offering items in place of gold or an accepted alternative currency. It is your right as trader to tell the other player to get their business in order before trying to buy from you. If they try to claim you're being unreasonable, put them on Ignore.

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By "dark", I assume you mean the Window looked like this: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:TW-NoOffer.jpg

Here's how it works: The other player submits a trade and you see the items. If they want to change the trade, they hit "Change Offer" and shift items/gold as needed. When they do that, you see a black bar saying the offer has been changed. When they hit "Submit Offer" the new items become visible. Only when both players have hit "Submit Offer" and "Accept" can the trade complete.

There is no way for you to "brighten" his side of the window, because when it's not visible he's still changing things. As such, if you can't see his side of the window you shouldn't hit Accept until you can and have reviewed every number and item.

Maybe he was quickly cycling "Change" and "Submit Offer" so that you couldn't see his portion of the screen, but allowed enough time for you to hit Accept. Maybe he made enough rapid changes he managed to glitch something in the Trade window. Maybe, just maybe, you were so stressed out from his actions that you just hit Accept when it finally came up without pausing to look. In any case, you should have cancelled and told him to get his **** in order or get out.

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Also, don't immediately decide all GW players are like that guy. There are scammers in every online game, the only difference is how they can manipulate the system to their benefit. ANet has done its best to limit their options, has issued warnings, and will ban known culprits.

But at some point they can't do anything else without placing unreasonable restrictions on trading. At that point it comes down to individual responsibility and common sense. Accepting that trade blindly was a risk you chose to make yourself.

If you really think this was a sign of how horrible the player economy in GW is, try playing EVE Online; they've got some multi-thousand dollar Ponzi schemes under their belt.

You weren't scammed... You just accepted a trade that you shouldn't have. Live and learn. Don't accept trades that are not clearly the value that you are expecting. Instead, cancel the trade and reopen.

No, that was not the window. It had text over it saying to check the offer, but was otherwise blacked out so I could not actually see the offer. Yes, I agree I took a risk after this happened. I do think this part of the trade system should be better documented in the manual that came with the game or a hint box since I am still in the tutorial area.

He was indeed rapidly cycling the offer, adding an item then changing it 4 times. Now that I see more how the system works I can see that you don't need to change it each time to add an item. My trades before this were for a Charr Bag, a single item at a time. Had not seen a multiitem trade before to know that was not the norm. Now that I know that is now, I can treat that behavior differently.

I have heard of Eve. Seems like a real dog eat dog game from some I have heard about it. I have played a game called Entropia Universe that has some crazy deals going on in it at times also. That game though has a real world cash out value to the game currency, so expected that in that one.

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Actually I was. We had a different agreement made through the in game chat. I had told him I was new to the system and having troubles with the trade window. He took advantage of the fact I was learning the games trade system. A GM seemed to agree. His account has been suspended.

Indeed, it was a scam. The closest equivalent I can think of would be a short-change scam, distracting the mark with multiple numbers and items so they don't realize they've been short-changed.

Second best way to protect yourself is if the guy can't get it right within 3 tries he is trying to scam or really stupid, either way don't trade with him.

If you need anything else let me know.

IGN Ryudo Dragonhart

So you were selling 3 black dyes for 30k?

It might be a scam but it entirely relies on the player making a really, REALLY dumb decision.

Who accepts a trade when they can't see the trade window? I don't spend any money in game (even with merchants) if I can't see the window because I can't see what's happening. If you were randomly salvaging items in your inventory and the inventory went would you continue salvaging and risk destroying your equipment? If you did wouldn't you consider yourself at fault?

Don't accept trades when you can't see the trade screen - that's the only lesson to be learned here (honestly, it should be common sense).

Is not blacked out he just didn't put any item in the trade. When trade session been change, a "warning label" saying trade session been change over the "new set of item being traded". However if the change was from 3 item to ZERO item the warning label still will pop up over a the trading screen even when there no item being offer. So its not blacked out it just have no item in the trade box after the change in the first place.

Like everyone say if all fail cancel and restart the trade, who ask you to accept the trade. Even you say you can't see any item already. Anet did all step need to alerting you without over doing it to piss off ppl. What you want a big flashing red screen.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly. You're saying that they were offering you 29k 750 plus a few items? And you ended up with only 3k?

That's not how the black out of the screen works though. You should have been able to see how much gold was being traded.

Also, if you had put your mouse over the blocked out area, you would have seen that it immediately cleared (unless you had been experiencing some system lag of some kind I guess). I just checked this and it goes away almost instantaneously. (I have two accounts, which makes this easy to display.)



Now I play in a window, which, in my experience, seems to lighten up the screen a bit, so the recommendations to adjust your gamma may be a good idea, but as you can see, the money portion is easily visible. But maybe I'm misreading your post and you meant you were supposed to get 27k worth of items.

The top shot shows what you see when your mouse moves over the greyed out area in the bottom screen (no need to click or do anything else, just move the mouse over it...you can't see my mouse pointer because the screenshot functionality automatically removes the cursor). The change is very quick as I said before.

I'm just posting this to be clear about how the trading system works. It's not your fault you got scammed no matter what anyone says. The other guy clearly tried to cheat you and while there were warning signs, that doesn't make it ok for the other guy to try and steal from you. Also, I was really surprised that there weren't any images on the wiki about how the changed offer trade screens looked.

If you pm me on this site with your in game name I'd be happy to give you back what you got scammed out of.

Just don't forget you're still dealing with people when you trade...trust but verify and all that. Better luck next time.

You have it right. It was supposed to be 29,7XX gold and some items. Wound up with 2,7XX. So I should have been able to see the gold, I agree from your screenshots. My display seemed to have been messed up then.
Interesting to see what it should have looked like. Mine actually no longer showed the area with my offer, and the buttons went right under the text to check it carefully. The window had shrunk to the area of the text warning with the buttons now in the bottom of that dark area as well. The text covered most of the black area as well. That text was also in a larger font with a black area that covered the whole size of the window that was left, and was darker/ harder to read then in this screenshot. Like it had a black overlay as well. The top area with the gold was also gone. Odd, interesting to see what it should have looked like.


I did mouse over it, and maybe that undarkened it then. However he was also constantly changing the offer at the time, which I guess then instantly darkened it again. Somehow the rapid cycling must have glitched it I guess.

Thanks for those screen shots, I am glad to know how it should have looked and what may have gone wrong for me then. Now that I know what it should look like and how it should be able to be undarkened and that changing the offer like that is not the norm I should be better set.

I also see why people did not think it's behavior was as ridiculous as I did, as the screen shot you show is much more reasonable then what I saw. Seems I got hit by a display glitch either by coincidence or from the rapid offer cycling as well.

Thanks for the generous offer to help me out with the missing however I rolled a pvp character and have been making some gold now selling zkeys so will have the gold back soon. I almost have my pve character to level 20 and then will finally leave presearing, so I will need help more with advice at that point then gold I am sure!

Cool, good for you.

FYI, the items get greyed out again if you move the mouse cursor away from the items.

If you didn't include that info in your service ticket, you might want to resubmit it. That definitely sounds funky.