Rangerway and Spiritnuke

Tyran Hellcaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

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Mo/W

The price drop of many superior runes suggests they are becoming less popular in favour of high health and armor setups.

Here are two very different builds that largely utilize the goodness of not one, but two superior (-75 health) runes per character. As heroes are great at maintaining vital weapon, the -150 health loss is effectively negated.



Rangerway is probably one of the highest damage builds possible utilizing heroes. The hail of arrows provided by the hero's chain casting of expert's dexterity (even out of combat) with a flatbow is pretty devastating.

The damage over 180seconds with the master of damage in GTB has been over 100,000dmg points, with peaks of more than 800 damage in one second.

Equipment:

Vampiric Flatbow for all rangers.
Bip Healer: Blood staff with 40% HCT and 20% longer enchantment mods.
MM: 40/40 Death weaponset
Soul Twister: +20 energy staff with 20% longer enchantment duration or +1 communing (20%)

Everything has radiant insignias and attunement runes where possible.

Notes:

* Build can easily complete UW and DOA in NM, FOW in HM, without consets.
* Human needs to call (frantically) to encourage the ranger heroes to spike with him/her.
* Build focuses on quick kills rather than drawing out engagements.
* 15 Expertise makes expert's dexterity chainable, for a constant 18 marks and 33% attack speed bonus.
* 'Pre-spiriting' by dropping Shelter, Union and Displacement before an engagement helps a lot for survivability when facing harder mobs.
* Pets and minions soak up most damage, and are also shielded by union, shelter and displacement.
* The presence of so many rangers in itself is effective damage mitigation given their armor vs ele dmg, the most dangerous dmg type for heroes with their tendency to ball up.
* Hex removal has proven not to be needed with pets and minions also soaking most hexes up. Should it be needed for a certain area, there are always free slots on the rangers.
* If needed, for harder groups you can pop down fav winds to counter the travel speed of flatbow arrows and add more dmg.
* The rangers purposely do not have a preparation, not only because of volley being present, but the time lost activating a prep (and aftercast) will add little or no overall damage.
* There is probably no build that benefits more from the honor ward when placed around your ranger heroes. The range of flatbows more or less ensures the rangers stay inside the ward during the entire engagement.
* Bone fiends benefit greatly from honor ward (+15dmg) and fav winds (+6dmg).
* When possible, seek the high ground as the damage from bows is exponentially increased.
* The sole-purpose of BiP is providing the Soul Twister with unlimited energy.
* When choosing skills to fill the empty ranger slots with, bear in mind that adding more attack skills will affect the frequency of use of existing ones. Fore example, having another spammable attack skill alongside volley will reduce its effectiveness as heroes more-or-less randomly spam attack skills.

Human Ranger: OwgS0YITxV+OeEfE2k+gpivT
Ranger/Paragons: OgkjcxZs5Q8aVgghOGAAAA0GWYA
Ranger/Rits: OggTYnLnZiXrCEM0xAAAAg2I5CA
Necro/Rit (bareback healer): OAhjUwGc4QLVHVUBKgoB4BbhJXA
Minion Master: OAhjQwGYoSGC3BTONbSTDTjTJgA
Soul Twister: OACjAyhDJPYTrX48xNPhmOzkLA



Spiritnuke is basically a holding build that also outputs a lot of damage.
Two copies of shelter on separate soul twisters ensure constant coverage. Union and displacement on different soul twisters also ensures they are maintained much more reliably than if they were on one Soul Twister.

The PI nuker mesmers are born from replacing the standard dominaton skills of a PI mesmer with fire nukes. Given the large amount of KD on their bars, DoT nukes, which pump out a lot of damage even for an ele secondary, become feasible as mobs can be pinned down for long periods.

Equipment:

Soul twisters: +20 energy staff with 20% longer enchantment duration or +1 communing (20%)
SoS: +20 energy staff with +1 channeling (20%)
BiP Healer: Resto staff including 20% longer echantments mod
MM: 40/40 Death weaponset
PI Nukers: 40/40 Fire weaponset

Because of the reliable coverage of shelter, union and displacement it is safe to fully equip heroes with radiant insignias and attunement runes.

Notes

* Can complete UW NM without consets (easily and 100% of the time), and FoW and DoA HM without consets. UW HM should be possible if the human reskills as tank for chaos planes and frozen wastes.
* It is vital to equip the mesmers with a 20/20 fire wand and 20/20 fire focus. Meteor Shower normally casts in around 2.3 seconds, and when the fast cast of your weapon set kicks in (they stack), it will cast in about 1.15 secs. Firestorm, Searing Heat, and Meteor also benefit greatly from fast casting, and the 40/40 weaponset.
* It seems useful to disable Earthbind for manual casting as it is only needed for harder groups or mobs that ordinarily cannot be knocked down (Giants, Wurms, Dhuum). This way a charge of Soul Twisting won't be used up with every time.
* Meteor shower together with Earthbind can effectively cause a 9 second knockdown.
* 10 attack spirits are included of which all have high attributes, and can be easily maintained (even Dissonance).
* Part of the defensive capability comes from the large number of targets that are a higher priority than a player/hero. To divert the attention there are a total of 16 spirits plus the minions, the latter of which are affected by shelter, union and displacement.
* As the spirits are spread between 5 characters large ‘spirit balls’ that heroes tend to create are not produced (less worries that AoE skills wreck your spirits).
* There has yet to be justification to bring hex removal. Spirits and minions seem to absorb the bulk of the hexes, while those cast on party are not dangerous.
* You will notice that your party rarely takes damage at all, with the sacrifice from BiP often being the only source of health loss during engagements.
* Armor of Unfeeling, Essence Strike and Spirit Boon Strike on the SoS rit, Glyph of Lesser Energy on the PI Nukers, and most of the human's skills fall into the 'miscelaneous skills' category.
* Dropping Shelter, Union, Displacement and Earthbind before combat is useful against more dangerous groups.

Human Monk: OwgS0YITxV+OeEfE2k+gpivT
SoulTwister 1: OACjAyhDJPYTrX4MzNPhmOTyJA
SoulTwister 2: OACjAyhDJPYTr3j7sFthmOzLGA
SoS: OACjAyiM5MXzy5m7bWNhmLTlJA
Necro/Rit: OAhjQkGZIP3hoZzeyNMHnVvLGA
MM: OABCUsx0S1RFVgCIaQaAewWI
PI Nukers: OQZCAsyTIsYkzIG7CgByAXA

Blackbirdx61

Blackbirdx61

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2011

Maryland.

Costumed Aggression. : )

R/E

Thanks for taking the time to post this, I might well test drive it myself soon. I have to admit I didn't recognize
Sloth Hunters Shot, or Experts Dexterity; on the Hero bars from their Icons myself; is their a link to the codes for this team build available. I googled Rangerway at PvX and got a very different team in their results. Oh Well thanks again for the post; it definitely looks worth a lil homework. BB.

Leot

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2012

Ahmtur Arena

[Rare]

W/

Looks great! I got bored of the common mesmerway stuff, this is a nice variation!

Tyran Hellcaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

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Mo/W

I've added template codes for you.

Will put build on pvx shortly.

Doug4130

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2011

D/

I feel like splinter weapon would be well worth making room for in the first build

Thanks fr posting this

Tyran Hellcaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

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Mo/W

Splinter weapon has been tested for Rway but several conflicts were found.

Most importantly, Vital weapon is often maintained on every ranger. As heroes don't cast a weapon spell on something that already has one, the rangers won't recieve it. It will be cast on minions and pets though, but that is not why you would want splinter.

Besides, Barrage on the human and 4 copies of Volley buffed by so many sources provides devastating AoE damage already.

Bristlebane

Bristlebane

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

For spiritnuke, an alternative skill to consider is Anthem of Envy since it will give every spirit attack a possibly +10..25 dmg bonus.

Grateful-Gage

Grateful-Gage

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2011

NONE

E/

Time to dust off them ranger heros of mine.
This looks fun to try out. ^^
Thanks for posting.

Wika Sham

Wika Sham

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

PA

The Black Parades [?????????]

Mo/Me

Just wondering if maybe an OoV in there somewhere would increase sustainability?

Tyran Hellcaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

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Mo/W

Anthem of Envy is nice in that the effect does not get expended when a spirit hits a target below 50% health, remaining until a target above 50% is hit or it runs out (10 seconds).

In the big picture though, for just that one skill you need to drop a character (likely a PI nuker) to bring a paragon.

Paragons have no particularly useful elites for the build and there are no useful Command skills other than Anthem of Envy. (Stand Your Ground! is even rather pointless with the level of defense the build possesses)

Order of the Vampire was also considered for Rway.

As it doesn't stack with Order of Pain yet it provides the same damage output (in the form of lifesteal though), it boils down to personal preference.

If you take OoV then you'd need to replace BiP with Blood Ritual. While hero usage of Blood Ritual is nice, it does take up a total of 3-5 seconds for a hero to reach target (touch range), to cast the spell and wait during the resulting aftercast.

With BiP the deed is done almost instantaneously, leaving more time for the Necro/Rit healer to cast other spells.

OoV does provide around the equivalent of heal party in health gain to your rangers over 5 seconds...but only if they have taken damage. Most often though, your rangers will be at full health because the minions and pets tank very well.

In the end there is not a huge difference between Bip + Order of Pain and OoV + Blood Ritual, so it boils down to what one prefers.

Perkunas

Perkunas

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2006

In my own little world, looking at yours

Only Us[NotU]

E/

Where do you get the 4th hero ranger and the 3rd hero Rit?

Cuilan

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

You can change Razah's profession and he has the three ritualist heroes (their names are in the image).
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Initiate_Zei_Ri
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Razah

That monk bar is...odd.

Tyran Hellcaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

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Mo/W

The human monk build was spawned from the need to complete the chaos planes 100% of the time. You heal the Reaper which tanks one side while the other is being taken care of. The monk receives an almost constant BiP for 10 pips of energy regen, allowing high energy heals to be semi-spammable, all the while they are affected by Healer's Boon.

For most areas such a specialized build would not be needed ofcourse, which is why the monk's build falls into the miscellaneous category.

Life Bringing

Life Bringing

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Fissure of Woe

[LOD]/[GS]/[DL]/[LOD*]

N/P

4 rezzes and rebirth seems like overkill to me, especially when 4 of them are dpacts. But you say that both of these can knock out DoA HM? How much of a problem are the small foundry rooms and Gloom's environmental effect? I've done DoA HM with heroes but never with a physical heavy team.

EDIT: And I'm assuming Hearty evolution for the pets?

Perkunas

Perkunas

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2006

In my own little world, looking at yours

Only Us[NotU]

E/

Thanks Culian. Forgot about Razah and did not know about Zei Ri. Goes to show, even 92 months in, you can still learn things.

Voodoo Rage

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

I'm sure this has been discussed before but how synergistic is a Soul Twisting Rit with all those minions and pets? It seems like they are going to be absorbing a lot of those potential Shelter prots due to their low health.

Korrel

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2014

R/

Tried rway in HM in most of the end game areas, amazing results..........thank you for the build

Kosar The Cruel

Kosar The Cruel

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2010

Ontario, Canada

D/

Replaced OoP on the N/Rt BiP'er with Blood Bond.

Running this on myself (D/N): OgSiQwsMZIYfxdpehglLOf9eBA

Only VQ I really do these days is Unwaking Waters. Getting 16mins runs regularly, no cons. Previously getting 18-20mins with current "meta" builds.

Thanks for posting these.

Roger Brownthorn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2014

R/Mo

Hey great build this Rangerway thing, I am wondering what skills do you recommend to fill empty slots? What is the best pet to use for this? What do you use?
Why do you use flatbow? and why vampiric? what is the perfect bow green one?

Thanks

Kosar The Cruel

Kosar The Cruel

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2010

Ontario, Canada

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Brownthorn View Post
Hey great build this Rangerway thing, I am wondering what skills do you recommend to fill empty slots? What is the best pet to use for this? What do you use?
Why do you use flatbow? and why vampiric? what is the perfect bow green one?

Thanks For skills, I run Distracting Shot and for some reason Arcing Shot or Keen Arrow Antidote Signet. Depending on the area, I might drop "Find Their Weakness" for Hex Eater Signet. For pets, I'm using Hearty as the pets will do little to no damage anyways.
Flatbows have the longest range and the fastest attack speed. This means the heroes move less and attack more. Vampiric is used in the build for additional damage as well as a minor constant heal.

Panda Girl

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2014

R/Rt

Rangerway is a great build, thank you. Any idea where the best place to farm for the vampire bow strings are?

Roger Brownthorn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2014

R/Mo

Eh is it me or the hero does not like to cast blood is power like at all?

Roger Brownthorn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2014

R/Mo

For those of us with mercenary heroes, do you still recommend to bring a minion master necro or maybe another ranger?

Tueur

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2011

R/A

Sorry for bumping this thread but i'm just wondering which skills are u guys using on rangers ? I'm talking about Rangerway btw

Wenspire

Wenspire

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2008

USA - W.Coast

HiME

Mo/

If you are talking about the skills with a "?" in them, I would imaging one would be an interrupt. The other could possibly be a pet damage skill.

I would be interested in seeing how the build can complete DOA's Gloom in HM. That place always seemed very bad for melee/ranged characters because of the enviro effect (50% chance to miss).

banda.daler

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2011

Mo/E

It looks like a good build,

could you tell me if the dungeons can be done using rangerway?

Tyran Hellcaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

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Mo/W

Thanks for the comments guys. Been away so am a bit late answering:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage View Post
I'm sure this has been discussed before but how synergistic is a Soul Twisting Rit with all those minions and pets? It seems like they are going to be absorbing a lot of those potential Shelter prots due to their low health.
The synergy lies exactly in shelter protting the minions. The minions do the tanking and their longevity protects your team and draws away knockdowns and hexes from your rangers. In HM especially, a minion basically becomes as tanky as a player due to shelter/union. It is ofcourse possible to turn the other spirits off when needed, which allows the soul twister to make a shelter every 5 seconds on average.

For the spirit build, with two soul twisters, this is not needed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kosar The Cruel View Post Replaced OoP on the N/Rt BiP'er with Blood Bond. Is the blood bond to heal the team, or heal the minions from the after-effect?

Either seems somewhat unnecessary as the microheal is tiny, and the minions are expendable.

You know, over its duration one cast of OOP produces around 250-400 pure damage on average for 5 flatbow wielding rangers with expert's dexterity.

Granted, it's not always up, probably closer to half or two-thirds of the time. But it is still an impressively high damage output for a single skill.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kosar The Cruel View Post For skills, I run Distracting Shot and for some reason Arcing Shot or Keen Arrow Antidote Signet. The reason interrupts are not really productive is because targets go down so quick that you dont need it. The possible interrupts for this build do less damage than attack skills. And if anything, heroes may become distracted and interrupt another target instead of spiking off the target the human is calling. I would only use distracting shot in niche builds for the disable, against very high life bosses that take an age to kill.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kosar The Cruel View Post For pets, I'm using Hearty as the pets will do little to no damage anyways.
Flatbows have the longest range and the fastest attack speed. This means the heroes move less and attack more. Vampiric is used in the build for additional damage Spot-on. Also, the great range of flatbow often puts you outside the cast-range of ele nukers. Long range bows can also benefit the most from the damage multiplier when shooting at targets at a lower elevation of the map (down hill).

About Vampiric bow string, it does slightly more damage on average than sundering, but it is too small to worry much about.

Quote: Originally Posted by Panda Girl View Post Any idea where the best place to farm for the vampire bow strings are? Definitely kamadan, approximately 2-5k each.

Quote: Originally Posted by Roger Brownthorn View Post Eh is it me or the hero does not like to cast blood is power like at all? For rangerway the sole purpose of the BiP is to feed the rit infinite power. BiP is automatically used on a casting profession when the energy drops below 50%. It will be used more frequently when your party comes under more pressure.

BiP won't be automatically cast on the ranger heroes but that is no problem. If you are running 15 in expertise you should not have energy issues.

Quote: Originally Posted by Roger Brownthorn View Post For those of us with mercenary heroes, do you still recommend to bring a minion master necro or maybe another ranger? Definitely bring the minion master. Those minions take so many knockdowns and hexes away from your heroes.

Without minions you still have the pets, but their higher armor draws away much less attention from the heroes than minions do. Besides, the MM does his fair share of damage output. Death nova, putrid bile, and the minion's damage alone should deliver more damage on average than a 6th ranger.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wenspire View Post If you are talking about the skills with a "?" in them, I would imaging one would be an interrupt. The other could possibly be a pet damage skill. I put highly situational skills in the two miscelaneous slots usually. In fact, I have left town a few times without even filling those slots. Silly I know...but there is not much that you can put there that does not reduce the ranger's damage output.

Even more attack skills will reduce the frequency with which the existing ones are used. Especially in the case of volley, this means a fair bit less damage.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wenspire View Post
I would be interested in seeing how the build can complete DOA's Gloom in HM. That place always seemed very bad for melee/ranged characters because of the enviro effect (50% chance to miss). A friend claimed to have completed it, but after trying numerous times..it does not seem possible, even with consets. I have updated the original post to reflect this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bLeda View Post
Thanks for this build! Works great for quick assasinations of any target but struggles in prolonged battles. Kill fast or die hard

Quote:
Originally Posted by bLeda View Post
For free slots I recommend at least 2 x throw dirt as the only anti-melee is displacement which usualy dies fast. Them minions and pets should be making a wall to stop melee getting to your rangers and backline. Ofcourse, a wall is not always possible, nor are minions always up, but it should not be often that anti-melee is needed.

The touch range of throw dirt may also reduce the damage output somewhat, especially since heroes have to walk a fair distance sometimes.

But hey, you can always deactivate the skill and activate at key moments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bLeda View Post
I still wonder if its possible to replace BiP with Motivation Paragon or Ranger with resto spirits... ;> Because im using this on Imbagon, I have replaced Protective Was with Pure Was for party wide 2 conditions removal - heroes use this pretty well. Imbagon should work nicely with the build. But it does go somewhat against the essence of the build, that is to kill quick. The imbagon may bring more defence, but at the cost of offence. I somewhat doubt the imbagon can even come close to the damage brought to the table by the human ranger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bLeda View Post
Edit: Another good optional (definetly for imbagon player) is Disrupting Accuracy, since it even rupts attacks. Two rangers got it and its enabled only on 1, on the other im using it (numpad hotkey, same for spirits) Disrupting accuracy kind of goes against the essence of the build as well. As explained above interrupts are not needed when targets die fast. In fact, all preparations lower damage output quite harshly, even when they add damage to attacks. They take two seconds to cast which is about 1.5 attacks from a +33% ias flatbow. 1.5 attacks is a lot of damage in this build and usually more than can be gained over the 24 second duration of a damage preparation like read-the-wind. Furthermore, it clashes with volley, arguably your most important attack skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bLeda View Post
Another great way to fill optional slot is Unseen Fury. Encountering Raptors taught me its invaluable - definetly worth more then petty 48% chance for crit... Unseen fury could be nice, but I should explain "go for the eyes" more.

It affects not only the heroes, but also the minions and pets.

Rangers get +44% critical chance (@3 command), and an additional 18% from 18 marksmanship, so a total 64% chance. The critical chance is therefore greatly increased from less than 1/5 to almost 2/3rds for the rangers.

The actual damage increase from the critical is also impressive. It gives your damage the max of the weapon stat and then adds a x1.4 bonus (see:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Critical_hit) So you will usually do around double of your base damage with a critical.

Adding the damage gained by minions, pets and rangers from a single cast of "go for the eyes", you are probably looking at 100-200 on average.

This kind of damage from shout you only have 3 atts in, and which is rapidly charged by a +33% ias flatbow with volley, is hard to pass up on imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banda.daler View Post
It looks like a good build,

could you tell me if the dungeons can be done using rangerway? I have done maw numerous times in HM without consets with rangerway. Not that hard, just a couple of deaths on average. Tread lightly though, so as not to attract too many wurms.

Well, that is it with the answers.

Any improvement suggestion is always welcome, but please state why it makes the build more efficient in general.

Cheers

[Nika]

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2010

Fissure Of Woe

Mage Is [SenT]

A/E

I don't know why you have the Rezz on the Player (Ranger build).
Also i don't see the sence of Triple shot, since you can spam Barrage.
I would suggest FgJ! + SY! for a improved partywide prot, might make this more fitting for longer combats, as when the minions are dead, SY is ready.

Another option would be Never Rampage Alone + Comfort animal. Provides Ias + Another pet.

Tyran Hellcaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

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Mo/W

Rebirth on the human ranger is for when your heroes die and you are the last man standing. This is kind of useful in areas like DOA or other places with no resurrection shrine. Like was said earlier this is a high risk build, relying solely on the quick speed of killing, so rebirth comes in handy from time to time.

The reason for both barrage and trip shot is their different functionalities. Barrage offers AoE nuking, whilst triple shot offers single target spike damage. 250+ DMG with triple shot happens quite often.

The SY + FGJ option on the human ranger has been explored before but there is poor synergy with the build.

Sure, it can be useful, but only in niche situations.

The problem is that SY is situational and uses up two slots on the human, which otherwise always increase the damage output of the build.

It also clashes with the usage of the honor ward, SY cannot be maintained indefinitely and it precludes the possibility for a monk/rit hard rez on the human.

Haters gon hate

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2012

Mo/W

SpiritNuke build is what i am currently using and its very good at surviving. I run it on my monk. Maybe its because i dont know all of the quests, but i cannot complete UW in NM. Tried many times but fail by about the 7th quest. Maybe i need cons? Any tips or sugestions for UW on NM and what is your average clearing time of UW on nm?

Tyran Hellcaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

----

Mo/W

Yeah spiritnuke is solid. You can be careless and lure what are normally way too many mobs and still survive unscathed.

Not sure which UW quest you mean by the 7th one.

But it is probably either chaos planes or frozen wastes since these may be tricky if you don't know where to place your heroes.

If its the frozen wastes, don't split the team. Stay near the edge of the spawn point, on the side where the reaper is. As you stay on the edge and kill more terrorwebs, work your way toward the center of the spawn as they keep popping up. You can leak a few terrorwebs that head toward the ice king no problem, just make sure the reaper recieves none.

For chaos planes, position your party slightly north of the reaper. Do this in such a way that the reaper will tank one side, and your team nukes the other. The reaper can tank well with the spirits up. Seeing as you are monk, you need to focus your heals on the reaper as the heroes won't heal the reaper enough.

Alternatively for the chaos planes, you can position your team away from the reaper, but between both waves so the reaper will do almost all of the tanking.

It is also helpful to pick up a few minions before the fight who will tank like mad.

Pre-spirit as much possible before both areas, and watch your heroes closely so you can move them out of a meteor shower before the first stun.

My average clear time for UW is around 1.5-2 hours. Definitely no speed clear but no 7 hero build is.

Also, it can be completed 100% of the time, given practice.

Bylon

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2014

Hello, just a short remark...

On both builds you recommend a +20% enchants mod for the BIP. Indeed this would be useful to boost BIP to 12 seconds... but it does NOT work with the builds you show as they have a bundle skill!

When heroes have a bundle skill they WILL cast it as soon as possible and keep the bundle as long as possible. Unfortunately, carrying a bundle removes all the bonuses of your weapons/offhands.

I don't imagine you could micro-manage the heroes bundle skill, as that would negate the AI intelligence to know when to cast BIP.

Thus with these builds, the +20% is useless... in fact with such a build, you don't even need to give any sort of weapon to your hero.

In conclusion, I'll try tweaking those builds a little!

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Maybe ditch PwK? It is kinda redundant to have it on a team where only one person (the BiPer) ever needs healing...

Bylon

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2014

No, actually you'll have at least 2 heroes to heal, because the MM will use Blood of the Master.

With a superior rune and Masochism, he can have 10 minions, thus sacrifice 25% life.

In fact you might also want to ditch Soothing Memories as you won't benefit from the energy bonus because you don't carry a bundle any more!

Will all those spirits around, there is an awesome rit heal: Spirit Transfer. Even on a secondary rit, you will get 205 heal, a 1/4 sec cast time (almost not-interruptible!) and a 5 sec recast (or 2.5 if HSR triggers). Yes it eats up 41 life to a spirit around, but that would be of no importance with such a wall of spirits.
205 heal / 1/4 sec / Recast 5 sec, is equivalent to what a regular primary monk can do with non-elite skills. So that is a good one here.

For the second skill, you can choose Rejuvenation for more heal, and one more spirit to feed you Spirit Transfer. The downside of this spirit is that it will be eaten very fast by your minions natural decay, even out of combat. The benefit being that your MM will need less cast of BotM.

The second possible choice is Recovery. I don't find it very useful in general situations, but it can come handy in zones like Foundry where you get a lot of burning from the Dryders, and other conditions from the lesser titans. The upside of Recovery is that it will last its full duration, unless killed by the enemy, giving you an excellent source for Spirit Tranfer.

Summary :
- remove : Soothing Memories, Protective was Kaolai
+ add : Spirit Transfer, Rejuvenation or Recovery


... and don't forget this team is supposed to be led by a monk, so, of course, you can adapt your monk build accordingly.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

The MM hardly ever uses BotM, except maybe outside combat on long walks, and under those circumstances the BiPer has an easy time healing him.

You know the problem with theorycrafting is that it usually involves assumptions about a build's functionality, or about AI behavior, that don't hold to be true in the game itself, so it's usually better to test the build ingame than to make guesses on guru and pass them off as facts.

Bylon

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2014

Indeed, you are very right, the AI can be very tricky. It uses some skills much better than players (like BIP, or insta-rezing with UA), and wastes some other skills.

I tried the SpiritNuke at Sytgian Veil, went like a breeze.
BIP replaced: PwK + Sootinh Memories, with Mend body & Soul + Spirit Transfer.

But Foundry was a complete catastrophe. The third room is lethal as AoE tend to spread out the foes, agroing the other groups more than with "standard" teams ==> and wipe. Furthermore, none of the Titans found here are fleshy, meaning that the MM becomes quickly useless at providing a steady meat shield with minions.

Tyran Hellcaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

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Mo/W

Quote:
On both builds you recommend a +20% enchants mod for the BIP. Indeed this would be useful to boost BIP to 12 seconds... but it does NOT work with the builds you show as they have a bundle skill!
The bundle is not always up you know, especially during pressure when he drops it to use as a heal. This is when the +20% duration becomes handy.

Quote:
For the second skill, you can choose Rejuvenation for more heal, and one more spirit to feed you Spirit Transfer. The downside of this spirit is that it will be eaten very fast by your minions natural decay, even out of combat. The benefit being that your MM will need less cast of BotM. Rejuvenation gives such little healing and dies within seconds. Even with primary rit with spawning power it is very underpowered.

As for spirit transfer, it could work.

Third room foundry is hard but workable. You need to

1) not have minions up in that room at the start (they will lure too many titans too soon)
2) you need to keep focusing on the ele titans (churning earth is painful for spirits)
3) make sure your heroes do not get chased off to lure the group containing the terrorwebs + horseman
4) pre-spirit like crazy, and split the soul twisters up and let them take positions so that the melee titans cannot reach them
5) You need a bit of luck on the mesmers not nuking too many titans at once. Calling frantically helps a bit to direct them.
6) Perhaps most importantly, time it so you have as much alone time with one titan group before the next one comes. I've forgotten which of the two groups that comes nearest the gate that is though.