Calling for a forum rule change... would it gain any support? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

10 Mar 2014 at 11:58 - 1

Greetings gurus.

Firstly, this thread is not here to flame the mods, nor to discuss names. I will close it myself if it begins to breach current forum rules. Please don't mention names here, this is purely to see if my idea will gain support, or if it sinks without a trace.

So, currently we are not allowed to post names or screenshots of characters that are not our own. Whilst I understand the reasons behind this, I feel that this policy is too broad, and it does not allow the traders' community to warn other traders of scammers and thieves.

The whole point of a community is that we can warn other members of any dangers, and discuss topics that are relevant. But currently, all we can do with regard to scammers is mention the way that is was done. But I feel this isn't enough. We should be able to name the scammer and post any screenshots as a warning both to ourselves, and to all potential scammers who may read it.

I am posting this now after a high-profile trader and collector was recently asked by the mods to remove a reference to a scam that ocurred during a high-profile trade involving a very expensive item. I feel that this comment should have been allowed to stand. (I will not reveal any details, even in PM, so don't ask). Furthermore, I believe that there should be a thread in this section dedicated to giving names of all scammers that are known of, and the methods used.

Granted, the waters can get a little murky if someone wants to damage a reputation (and this is the reason the rules are as they currently are). However, good reputations are built over a long period of time, so it would be easy to spot the trolls. But would that high profile trader have treated the trade differently had he been warned of the buyer's reputation for scamming? My reputation here is good (I hope

), but equally, others' reputations are bad.

Discuss.

Max

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

10 Mar 2014 at 13:21 - 2

I fully understand the motivation and would support the change, but one reservation keeps me from adding that support.

Ultimately, everyone has a price (apparently mine is stupid high...you're welcome, Popel

). At some point, the reputation comes second to the gain. We all know of a situation over a year ago where a high profile, reputable trader made that choice for fewer than two stacks of braces.

Thus, we all need to be relatively smart and careful. In the situation you reference, I doubt the same trade would have occurred when the seller was actively playing; he would have been more careful. Certainly, I place no blame on him, but waiting for currency conversion would have eliminated the scam potential.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

10 Mar 2014 at 14:16 - 3

Perhaps, but the buyer would (should) have been aware of the exchange rate, and therefore deliberately underpaid, thus qualifying for a mention as a scammer. Agreed, sellers should also be aware. It's not clear-cut, but once his name is in a rogues gallery, people can be more wary.

I'm not looking to discuss that individual trade, but I bet you 10g that the buyer didn't offer to correct the underestimation, or say 'oops, I seem to have ripped you off' etc. He did it on purpose, exploiting the inactivity of the seller, a tactic that could be eliminated (theoretically) if we can police ourselves....

Max

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

10 Mar 2014 at 14:50 - 4

Consider another aspect of the situation then:

If 100% proof of rogue-status is confirmed, and an individual is placed on such a list here, I would wager a large sum the individual would be aware of his/her placement on the list. Assuming another scam came to mind, would not an alternate account be used? Keep in mind, most people with the funds and motivation to pull off a significant scam at this point in the game are quite likely to have access to multiple accounts.

On the other hand, if the status is not publicly posted (but only discussed in game among friends), then said rogue may not be aware of his/her infamy and attempt future cons with the same account.

Basically, I'm saying I doubt such a list would prevent many (if any) cons. If 100% proof were offered EVERY time (look at every other thread that tends to be misused here), then I would consider supporting it to annoy the frauds by forcing the inconvenience of swapping accounts on them. That said, the defamation of false claims, flame wars, and mistrust that would likely ensue cause this idea to fall far short on a pro/con list.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

10 Mar 2014 at 14:56 - 5

You are of course right. And that's the downside.

This was always going to be controversial, but I felt it was worth discussion at least.

M

Warehouse

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2014

Hiding Under Your Bed

Teh Academy [PhD]

A/

10 Mar 2014 at 14:56 - 6

I would support the idea max but as u said there would be a fair amount of lies and trolls to dig through before we can get to the real trades and scams.

There are only a couple of ways I can think of to remedy this, one would be that all accused scammers could not be named unless appropriate proof is given. And by appropriate proof we all know screens of 2 or 3 sections of the trade would more than likely suffice, however these screens would have to be audited by a mod before released into the thread which would probably take multiple mods hours to sift through and come to a decision depending on the complexity of the scam and the level of proof provided.

The second and rather less concrete way I can think of is a second sister thread aimed souly at increasing legit traders rep, so for instance trade moderators including already high profile ones would benefit from this, or screens of traders correcting an error made in the trade, we have all made these, missed a 0 or added to many of something if it was a honest mistake and corrected then they should receive the rep for correcting it.

That's my idea feel free to critique etc

Chron/warehouse

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

10 Mar 2014 at 15:11 - 7

Afterthought to Gregor's point about them using different accounts...

We'd all naturally be careful about handing over vast sums to money to a guru account that has existed for 2 days. Or to a lvl 6 dervish with an unknown guild tag in game...

New account = alarm bells.

M

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

10 Mar 2014 at 15:45 - 8

A new guru account, surely, is a flag.

I have almost 10 accounts with lvl 20s (not pvp, which can be made instantly). Guild tags are easy enough to come by

The point is that a motivated con man will con you...unless you personally take steps to ensure it doesn't happen. Positive and negative rep on a forum are insufficient. Again, refer to the OTHER familiar case with a known/respected trader who decided 400a-ish was enough to take a risk.

Aco Assasin

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2013

[PhD] Home Away From Home

A/D

11 Mar 2014 at 15:50 - 9

I would like for this to be a case but idk nor have i time to read if this was said but i dont think it should be used to rage players only to warn or ask for help..

sun strike

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2012

W/Rt

12 Mar 2014 at 00:22 - 10

who got scammed?(pm me the details)

Revealing the methods used is a double edged blade in someways, not everyone uses guru, let alone look in the traders section often and copycat scammers will use it against those who aren't well informed.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

12 Mar 2014 at 10:03 - 11

These are the exact same conclusions that I came to unfortunately.
But I did at least have a moment of partial clarity while preparing dinner last night...

How about a small, dedicated closed forum on another site where only a select few reputable traders/collectors can actually post, but it is readable by everyone....
That way any scams can be reported there, and because only a dozen or so people can make posts, there would be no flame wars.

I have no idea how that would be setup... My internetskillz are limited at best, but what do people think of that?

This whole idea is more to protect traders from scoundrels and ragamuffins than as a general warning to everybody who sells a celestial mini from time to time.
Once we know a name is dodgy, we steer clear anyway, why not consolidate and share that info?

Max

Jansy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2009

The Kingdom of Ascalon

N/P

12 Mar 2014 at 16:47 - 12

I appreciate all opinions on this thread. I personally think consolidating and sharing information on a "scoundrel" is for peers only. Making this public knowledge will happen organically when peers tell there peers and so on and so forth.

Right now, due to the life cycle of this amazing game, i believe that creating this idea is maybe what respected traders needed 2-3 years ago. A good idea nonetheless, but just a bit too late to save the day. Also, if anyone feels obliged to share information on scoundrels, feel free to inbox me.

Francis Bacon said: "Knowledge is Power!"

Enchanted Krystal

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2011

In a Kurzick retirement village, reminiscing about Magmas shields......

GW1 ???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????] ~ GW2 Teh Academy [PhD]

D/Me

13 Mar 2014 at 06:55 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jansy

..
Francis Bacon said: "Knowledge is Power!"

'A little learning is a dangerous thing' Alexander Pope.

I agree with Sunstrike's comments 100%, it would be a double edged sword if the information was made public. Just my 2 cents.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

13 Mar 2014 at 08:28 - 14

Yep, it will be a double edged sword.
But right now I'm fed up with cheats, liars, scammers and thieves trying to squeeze everything they can out of us.
But more than that, I'm fed up that guildwarsguru.com isn't interested in exposing these cheats and liars. Indeed, it seems that the rules here allow them to operate their scams without impunity or consequence. When a name or scam is mentioned, the mods take it down. It's not good enough.

I take great pride in trading ethically and I always try to be fair. And I'm not super-rich. (I'm not poor either) but the scammers are allowed to rip people off with ease, and can get super-rich by doing so. This is the main hub for traders and collectors to operate, and the rules are working against the honest traders.

And it will get worse.

Max

tooburns

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

u know where my spot is !

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer.

W/

13 Mar 2014 at 08:32 - 15

^^
this .

sun strike

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2012

W/Rt

13 Mar 2014 at 12:14 - 16

Yeah, its a shame although gwguru has been like this since the beginning, i for one respect their decisions(tbh they have done so well to moderate this forum for nearly a decade), this has been the longest standing gwguru fansite because of what they continue to do and uphold.

witch hunts just bring negativity to the forum and its kinda pointless trying to name traders as they can easily change char names or create new accounts on gwguru or ingame.

But i do support a different idea: a list of items that are of scammed origins.
Boycott or reclaim the item.

whats done is done.
at the end of the day it is just pixels, if someone is desperate enough to scam over it(esp 10 yr old game), then they need to get their priorities straight irl.

don't hurt over pixels. just vent it once and move on, this game WON'T LAST forever, everyone should realize this before they get too emotional over it.

my 3 cents

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

13 Mar 2014 at 12:57 - 17

It occurs to me that a list in a certain guild status or guild forum (seriously, a forum takes a few minutes to set up) would inform the majority of the high end traders who would take the warnings seriously. GWGuru may even allow a link to said forum to be placed here informing readers what it contains. Such a compromise might work as all claims could be evaluated by super new forum mod Max

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

13 Mar 2014 at 13:00 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun strike

witch hunts just bring negativity to the forum and its kinda pointless trying to name traders as they can easily change char names or create new accounts on gwguru or ingame.

But you'd have no problems making a large trade with me (I hope) because at over 1000 posts and 4 years(?) on guru, and 8 years invested in the game I have built my reputation. You would however be instantly more cautious making a large trade with a brand new guru account, or a name you never heard of. Most large trades are done with the main character in game anyway. Notoriety making them start new accounts can only start alarm bells.

And on another note, I agree that the mods are doing a great job here, in tricky circumstances, and they do it voluntarily too. Hats off to them. It's the rules they enforce that I'm aiming at here, not the mods themselves.

Max

Mouse at Large

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Scotland

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

13 Mar 2014 at 13:46 - 19

I am not a "trader", but I have mixed views on this. It all depends on what you define as a scam. If you mean deliberately using false items in trade, lulling players into dropping items then picking them up or similar, then there might be some merit in the idea, but only if there was proof or strong corroboration.

What I'm not comfortable with is someone deciding that just because a seller has parted with an item for considerably less than someone else thinks it's worth, the seller has been scammed and the buyer is a scammer. That depends on opinion, not fact.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

13 Mar 2014 at 14:53 - 20

Yea, point taken. It's not so much about differences of opinion as to an item's worth, it's more to do with deliberate deception. (Which common sense or experience can usually spot). By that, I mean deliberately misleading the seller as to an items value. Or selling items from a hacked account, or making a part payment then not paying the rest (common sense, but it does happen) I'm talking about dishonesty, not differences in opinion. I've had known dodgy traders try to tell me that a 250e shield I'm selling is only worth 10e, but they'd offer me 15 as a favour. Or asking me for a PC then to PM someone who's selling it afterwards telling them it's worthless. Or (and again, no names please) someone constantly spamming WTB something at a high price to drive the price up, then miraculously having one to sell...(like happened to oni blades btw). I mean who ACTUALLY has 10,000 Z-keys for sale? But the Kama-Spam is right there. Or selling known dupes.... Or fake c/o in Kamadan or on guru. It's those guys I'm targeting.

Max

Kvinna

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2009

13 Mar 2014 at 21:22 - 21

I understand where you're coming from, Max, and how frustrating it is to have to deal with scammers, but there are many reasons why we don't allow naming them, and people have already mentioned them in this thread. The biggest one being that we want to make sure that people aren't being falsely accused. I know you mentioned screenshots, but seeing as those can easily be manipulated, we can't really rely on them 100%.

In the end, modding Ventari's is already a tough enough job with people crying foul on each other. Sadly, we just can't rely on everyone to be truthful, and to add another layer to that wouldn't be helpful at all. This is just not the place to out people so the rule will not be changing.

Mouse at Large

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Scotland

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

14 Mar 2014 at 08:33 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxBorken

<snip> I've had known dodgy traders try to tell me that a 250e shield I'm selling is only worth 10e, but they'd offer me 15 as a favour. Or asking me for a PC then to PM someone who's selling it afterwards telling them it's worthless. Or (and again, no names please) someone constantly spamming WTB something at a high price to drive the price up, then miraculously having one to sell...(like happened to oni blades btw).<snip>

Max

Therein lies the nub of the problem. You may think something is worth 250e, and based on your considerable experience, that may well be reasonable, but until you actually have an offer to buy, or better still, actually sell it, then that is an opinion. Also, where do you draw the line between power-trading and scamming? Taking your example, if you had been offered 150e? 200e? 100e?

Finally, suppose you bought an item for 15e and someone else is of the opinion that it's worth say 150e, would that make you a scammer

sun strike

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2012

W/Rt

14 Mar 2014 at 09:36 - 23

scamming and getting a bargain is 2 different stories.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

14 Mar 2014 at 09:39 - 24

The guy knew what it was worth. No doubt about it. He does that all day every day. But yea, I knew its true value just as well as he did. He was trying to rip me off. Quite simply, he thought I was another mug he could rip off. But that's the smaller of the misdemeanours I mentioned.

And for what it's worth, I always ask what figure people are expecting, and if they don't know, I ask what they'd be happy with. I never try to deliberately rip people off.

It's the intention to deceive that I'm talking about.

@kivinna...

Thanks for the reply

I'm glad the thread got noticed, and I appreciate your position. It's what I expected , but some constructive dialogue on the issue would be useful rather than a straight no

. Is there a possibility? I'd hate to lose the opportunity to discuss it.

Max

Bristlebane

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

14 Mar 2014 at 12:22 - 25

There's a group of guys that hangs out in every major city, they lowball you on everything you offer.
They happily offer you 100g for ectos, 1g for black dyes, ~50g for rare old school items.
Not allowed to tell you any names but I'm sure you met them.

jon comgree

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2010

Doomlore

Let Rastigan [taNk]

A/

20 Mar 2014 at 17:23 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun strike

scamming and getting a bargain is 2 different stories.

That is true but always aiming to get higher/lower prices is pretty close to scamming imo when the margin is above/below 50% or to be more precise, ripping people off which on the morale compass is right next to scamming.

sun strike

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2012

W/Rt

21 Mar 2014 at 07:56 - 27

its not scamming when the price is agreed upon by both parties.
prices are not determined for any skin but for what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Cleavage

Worlds Hexiest Man

Join Date: Jun 2006

[TRDR]

24 Mar 2014 at 11:27 - 28

5-6 years ago I bought a r8 tactics Echovald +30 -10 piercing for 100k from a guy who barely ever played. I sold it that week for 250e. Would some people call that a scam ? If they did then it's my opinion they are stupid to think so. Could I then look at it like the buyer scammed me because 5-6 years later its now worth 100+ arms ?

Opinion and perspective are a dangerous mix.

Addressing a straight up scam like someone offering to buy a rare mini and asking for your skype info to try and offer some crazy cash price and tricking you into hitting accept on a trade saying the money is sent would be a true scam. I am really not sure of what could be considered scamming when you use a trade window thou ? You put an item up and both parties hit accept. If someone says "pay me now and then I'll" you need to back away and say no.

Sorry but I just need a little more info as to understand what the scam is in this situation. Hit me up in game Max and lets talk. It's been a few weeks since our last tea and crumpits session.

P.S. Who has my old Echovald ? I am sure some of you might now and I really dont feel like searching

-andy-

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Sweden

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

24 Mar 2014 at 22:08 - 29

Yeah it's not scamming if both parties agree but I guess you can feel pretty bad sometimes when you get a too good to be true deal. Then again that is trading and if you have no idea what an item is worth, don't sell until you do... Most people don't want to pay more than they have to.

And @ Cleavage, I'm pretty sure Rice has that Echovald now

Enchanted Krystal

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2011

In a Kurzick retirement village, reminiscing about Magmas shields......

GW1 ???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????] ~ GW2 Teh Academy [PhD]

D/Me

25 Mar 2014 at 01:05 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by -andy-

Yeah it's not scamming if both parties agree but I guess you can feel pretty bad sometimes when you get a too good to be true deal. Then again that is trading and if you have no idea what an item is worth, don't sell until you do... Most people don't want to pay more than they have to.

And @ Cleavage, I'm pretty sure Rice has that Echovald now

Very true. Take the Q8/16 Darkwing I brought a few months ago for example. After viewing it in the sellers window I asked how much? The seller advised that he wanted 250e for it, as it was a popular skin. I agreed, paid & resold it 2 days later for 1750e. It's is worth mentioning that at the same time I brought it, there was a WTB add on Guru for this shield with the buyer offering 1500e for one if someone could supply it. If the seller was too lazy to look, or to get a PC beforehand, then DOOM ON THEM. I paid his full asking price, he was happy & I was happy, this is not scamming IMO.

You can't have your cake, and eat it too.

~EK~

EDIT: and I love this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleavage

.....I am really not sure of what could be considered scamming when you use a trade window thou ? You put an item up and both parties hit accept.

100% true.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

25 Mar 2014 at 06:20 - 31

When a price is agreed, then it's fair enough. If the seller wasn't aware of an item's value, and asks for a figure, then it's ok. I had an r8 Magmas -2/ench +29 which the seller was delighted when I agreed to the 25e he asked for it. I did not try to tell him I would only pay 25, or that it was worthless for example. He asked for that. A week later I later sold it for 1200e. He was very happy with the 25. We've all been in that position. Like Sunstrike said, getting a bargain is not the same as scamming.

I mentioned the types of scam in my earlier posts though. The ones where people are deliberately misled, instead of being happy with a price. Yes, I know that's a grey area. But I'm fed up with the cheats and liars, but more than that, I'm fed up that the rules here don't allow us to address it. In fact, the rules seem to protect the cheats and liars from being exposed. 'Like the guy yesterday spamming WTS Ded panda 30euro PayPal. 100% legit'. I'm sure that was 100% legit

Or a certain demons shield that was sold recently, which the new owner (with whom I myself have had trust and honesty issues) spamming it for sale last night with a blatantly fake and overpriced c/o.

Sure, there was one incident that prompted me to start this, and technically that wasn't a scam because the price was agreed, but for me that was the final straw as I know the buyer has a reputation for being a bit shady. I won't go into it though, and I ask you all not to either.

Max

Enchanted Krystal

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2011

In a Kurzick retirement village, reminiscing about Magmas shields......

GW1 ???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????] ~ GW2 Teh Academy [PhD]

D/Me

25 Mar 2014 at 07:38 - 32

The only scam I am aware of, would be for sales over 1750e & would require a corrupt middle man.....no names mentioned. Obviously rmt trades are very open to scams, but trades with the ingame trade window require both people to be happy before a deal can be done. Armbrace exchange rates & current market value of the item, are something any seller/buyer should be aware of.......

Edit: Any trade that requires someone to "go first" will always be dubious ground.

Händler

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Belgium

Next Trade Generation [御貿財]

Mo/

16 Apr 2014 at 09:46 - 33

Hey guys, since Ive been a very active trader for like 7 years now I have seen a lot of so called "scams" over the years. I would even say Ive seen it all. A lot of (sometimes first hand) negative experiences have lead to a very strict "dont trust anyone"-policy for me. The only way Id trust someone is when I know him in RL cuz then I can go to his place at any time and punch him in teh face if he ever does something bad to me. I personally draw the line depending on the value of items, if sth is worth that much that its loss would really hurt me, then what I just said applies, I dont trust anyone except I know him in RL. If I consider the value of sth low enough to be sure I could survive its loss in the worst case scenario then I trust certain people whom I only know ingame but have known them for a very long time so Im pretty sure they will not scam me especially if they have enough money themselves to consider that item not worthy of scaming for either. Its as simple as that for me, I have my own rules I stick to and i think everyone should have those for himself.
As to the scamming itself Id say at least in my very opinion in very close to 100% of all cases where we speak of "scamming" its always the fault of the person who got scammed, at least to a big part. I know the truth sometimes hurts people, but Ive been scammed many times when I was still a noob in the game and instead of whining about it like most people did, I accepted the facts, i was naive, I didnt inform myself and most of all I was stupid. It did hurt a lot and its not nice at all to feel betrayed, but I just can give you all one advice: DEAL WITH IT! Dont look for excuses, accept that YOU made a mistake and try to learn from your mistakes.
And about the people who do scams on purpose I can just say, Im not mad at them and I dont hate them, I just pity them, cuz I know they feel miserable. Its basic truth, if you try to make other peoples lives miserable its cuz your miserable yourself. So I know that those people will never have the good life I have, which again makes very thankful for what I have, seein that other people dont. I always try to see those people as what they are, troubled people, who have problems in their own life, maybe with their family, like not gettin enough love etc and therefore not knowing the value of things like friendship, trust, honor etc.

Thats just my point of view, since English is not my first language I dunno if you get what I really wanna say, so if u got any questions ask me and Ill try to explain as good as possible

(***mod edit---This is a message board, not a chat room. DO NOT use "Leet-Speak", etc...fixed per GURU rules---mod edit***)

Enchanted Krystal

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2011

In a Kurzick retirement village, reminiscing about Magmas shields......

GW1 ???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????] ~ GW2 Teh Academy [PhD]

D/Me

22 Apr 2014 at 05:19 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Händler

.... It did hurt a lot and its not nice at all to feel betrayed, but I just can give u all one advice: DEAL WITH IT! Dont look for excuses, accept that U made a mistake and try to learn from ur mistakes.......

Very wise words indeed.

On a separate note, I recently found myself trying to do "one person goes 1st" trades in Spamadan & man was I instantly labeled "a scammer" lol. FYI people, If a deal sounds dubious, guess what, YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE DEAL!! I did not try to force anyone into anything & I respected those who chose not to proceed once the details were explained, but I DID get heckled A LOT. I made quite a few new friends along the way & the only one who got scammed was me when I "went 1st" the first two times.

I just wanted to add this information as up-until now, I too presumed every dubious deal was a scammer. It's not always the case.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

22 Apr 2014 at 05:46 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Krystal

& the only one who got scammed was me when I "went 1st" the first two times.

So the names of those first 2 scammers would go on the list.

I agree, don't take the deal if you don't want it.

Max

Also, to be clear...
Sure, I made a few bad purchases that didn't make any profit (one even made me a 20e loss!) but I have never been scammed and I certainly am not whinging about getting scammed.
I'm fed up with these scumbags trying to deliberately rip people off, and getting away with such staggering dishonesty and fraud.

Enchanted Krystal

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2011

In a Kurzick retirement village, reminiscing about Magmas shields......

GW1 ???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????] ~ GW2 Teh Academy [PhD]

D/Me

22 Apr 2014 at 09:52 - 36

I know where your coming from Max, fo sho. I have also noticed of late that certain people watch collectors, see what they bid on, b/o said item's & then re-list it a few weeks later hoping to get more money for them. :/ Or in Max's case, having someone buy an item out from under your nose & then offer it straight to you for an exorbitant price because they seem to think all collectors have ecto trees growing in their Xunlai Chest's.

It's just kinda sad...