Did Anet Plan

only thought of this question today while helping a friend throught deserts(he was lost)... there is no primary Quest at all in deserts, its pretty much find your own way, so my question is did anet, have it planned you followed the non primary quest to Augury Rock, enter inside Augury and one of them ghost takes you to say, Dunes of Despair, Thristy Rver or Elonas Reach, before coming back for the Dopple Ganger at Augury?, then the rest of the deserts was suppose to be ventured while getting the bonus Attribute points/unlocking more secondaries?
Or were extra secondaries never available at that start of the game?, I mean it makes more sense then the current state the Deserts is in, and I'm sick of seeing people ask "where are primary quest in the deserts".. it helps im a vet at the game and can fight my mules directly to the deserts missions(or run to them), but what about the not so experienced players?, there should atleast be a tip for them, and if any1 says listen to Turai Ossa at Amnoon Oass(ghostly hero who gives the qust to get to Augury)... I read most of his yammering, before it seemed pointless, so if he does say about, then sorry I asked, but I doubt many people are gonna bother reading his 20 minute story of crap. how were chosen, he was chosen, other hero chosen came and failed blah blah blah.

if memory serves....you should go to augury rock first, at which point they npc tells you you have to do certain tasks to become ascended...dont remember them telling you exactly what they were, but there are a few secondary quests that will help point you in the right direction.
as for the secondaries question, there was no way to change them prior to the desert when they game first came out. You had to slog thru the sands to get to the outposts and work your way along ....

so hope that helps a bit.

iirc there is a quest which sends you to augury rock from the amnoon oasis. That's basicallyyour primary Q. One of the few times a primary doesn't show up in the primary tab of the Q log.
Just checked, it's Sands of Souls.
Okay, since it's not required for anything afterwards, technically it's not a primary after all. Oh well ...

If you don't want to read the quest text then it's your own problem ffs.

Srsly, if you reach Amnoon and head to the exit, Turai stands there to give you the quest. I actually like that the desert is handled that way because you are on your own at that point of the story. You don't really know what to do. So you are going out looking for characters that might give you an idea what you should aim for. There is no direct quests leading you but if you look for it you get enough hints what to do. That's one of the reasons I like the crystal desert so much: It actually feels like an oldschool rpg that doesn't lead you blind-folded from quest marker to quest marker but actually requires the player to deal with the ingame problems.

FYI: The quest from amnoon leads you to the Augury Rock. At that time it's already hinted that the Ascension is something big and that you will find answers in Augury Rock (btw. his story isn't crap, it's one if the most tragic, yet exciting backround stories in GW in its whole...). The priest you meet in Augury Rock tells you that the answer to the question of how you could ascend will be given to you by three characters before the Augury Rock and asks you if you want to enter the mission. The characters in the mission (obviously, you can't enter the Augury Rock itself yet) tell you in which direction you have to walk to find the three places you need to challenge for ascension.
I really think that should be enough. But todays gamers are so accustomed to hand-holding that they don't even think of reading 2 lines of text to get an idea of what to do. Instead they are instantly lost without quest marker...

This post might sound harsh but I'm really concerned with the direction of games these days. Games should be there to stimulate thinking and teach something. But if you look at GW2 for example, which took hand-holding to another level, people getting worse and worse at this stuff. It's not like more hand-holding helps them but it degrades them and they still don't know what to do. I saw that on so many occasions.

"ffs" dont get mad mate, im not complaining it was a question of anets intention, n me being concerned for new players, get mad cus i cant be bothered reading Turai's text, when you didn't even read my post correctly. and FYI i mentioned the secondary from Turai taking you to amnoon., and another FYI, I did bother ending up reading Turai's Text's, all 15 mins worth, and he's gives no clue as to were to head after Augury.

Cosyfiep the question was, did deserts always allow you to unlock the other secondaries, and from what I think your saying the answer was always yes(i Didn't get the game till HM was added, so i was unclear about that), so if it was a yes, then I believe doing the secondary unlock quest, helped find your way through deserts+non primary quest untop of that., but nothing you talk to gives you a direct understanding of whats going on, besides you need to help ghostly heroes reclaim their rights or W/E, so yep, your pretty much on your own doing quest(if your new/noob).

Nature Lover, I did mention that

The ability to unlock all secondaries has always existed, though you can't do that until you've finished Augury Rock so your suggestion there doesn't really turn out. While we're on the topic, I would also point out Augury Rock wasn't originally a mission outpost which may have been confusing, though obviously that's since been amended.

Ah, cheers for the info, it wasn't actually a suggestion though, it was a question, nice to know Augury wasn't always a mission outpost, but yes that does make it all the more confusing now, lol, if you could always unlock all secondary professions after Augury, unless you meant that the Augury outpost didnt show as a mission outpost?

Augury Rock appears as a regular outpost until you complete the first three desert missions, at which point it becomes a mission outpost (the shield). Originally that didn't happen, remaining a regular outpost regardless of which point the plot was at.

yeah i got that part, but was it still a dopple ganger "mission", regardless of it not having a shield?

I only brought up Turai because I wanted to show that there is a leading hint from the beginning on. Turai doesn't give you information about where to head after augury rock, that's correct. But as I said, he leads you to an NPC which then leads you to other NPCs that give you the name of mission outposts and the direction they are in. There is direct lead. And it isn't 15 mins worth of text (not that this would be a bad thing, but hey). It's only a few line. Maybe 5 minutes all in all if you are a slow reader.
Btw. you doesn't have to read Turai's story. The quest text is enough. The rest is just nice backround information to get a better idea what is going on in the desert.

this but sometimes when youre ready to go and swarm the flood with the locks of heaven you need to all we do this for auir not you. shakuras

Ghostly Hero at Amnoon(Turai)-
"You are the Chosen I have been waiting for. Long have I looked forward to this moment.
What is it you seek?"
How did you know I was Chosen?
"For many centuries have I lingered here in this desert, waiting for the Prophecy to come to pass. The Chosen ones will come and help me gain access to the Mists and pass into the Hall of Heroes. It has all been foreseen."
The Hall of Heroes?
"Deep within the Mists is a place known as the Hall of Heroes. This is the spot where the universe was created, the very center of all things. It is the dream of all heroes that when they die, their spirit goes to the Hall, to float among other legendary figures of old."
Why do you need my help?
"Like you, I was one of the Chosen. But I passed from this world before I could rise to Ascension. The tests of Ascension can only be performed by mortals. But I can guide you through them, and when the way opens for you, it can also open for me."
Who were you in life?
"My name was Turai Ossa. I was the Champion of Elona, the protector and leader of my people. At the Battle of Jahai, I single-handedly defeated Palawa Joko, the scourge of Vabbi. It was I who led the Elonians to the Crystal Desert."
Have others come to the desert to Ascend?
"Since my own people perished here, there have been two other groups who have followed suit, failing as we did to Ascend. The ghosts of many of their strongest spiritual leaders still haunt this place."
Is that what happened to you?
"I perished, along with the rest of my people, trying to build a temple to the old gods. We foolishly thought that we were the ones in the Flameseeker Prophecies. The ones who would rise to be led to the Hall. But fate is a cruel master, and it is I who have become the guide."
What do you know of the Flameseeker Prophecies?
"I know that those who are proven worthy will help me open the way into the Rift. I know that those who Ascend are destined for greatness. And I know that it will be I who leads them through the treacherous afterlife to the top of the Hall of Heroes. But if you wish to know more, then you should ask the one who had the premonitions, the Prophet."
The Prophet still lives?
"Indeed. Her name is Glint, and she is quite old, even for a dragon."
A dragon?
"Yes. She was the first of all creatures on Tyria, created by the gods to be the caretaker, but it became clear that she needed help. That is when they summoned the creatures known now only as the Forgotten."
What are the Forgotten?
"They resemble great snakes, but they move upright, use magic, and fight with forged weapons. They were brought here to watch over Tyria while the gods completed their creation. But the serpentine creatures were pushed out of most of the continent, banished here to the desert by humans. Now they serve to protect the portal to the dragon's lair. If you want to ascend and meet Glint, you will have to get by them."
How do I find Glint?
"She lives here in the Crystal Desert. But she is not easy to find. Her lair is inside a single crystalline grain of sand. It would take you a million lifetimes to comb the desert and you would still never find her. Only those who Ascend will find the portal that takes them to her."
What must I do?
"You will have to prove to the gods that you are worthy of Ascension. There are three test you must pass before you will be let into the mesa at Augury Rock. The mesa lies to the east. There you will find Great Ritual Priest Zahmut. He can tell you more."
I'll head east then.
"I have waited for a long time for someone worthy to help me pass into the Rift. For both of our sakes, I wish you luck."

so what does great Ritual Priest tell us to give us a hint?
"I am he. You wish to Ascend, do you? Many have come before you, and all have failed. May the gods grant you the wisdom to light your way. Three tests await you in the desert. Seek and you shall find."

on top of that, you have to enter Augury as a mission(though not doing a mission) to talk to the 3 ghostly heroes, because Great Ritual Priest Zahmut says ina further dialogue(only if you click on himagain, except he has no marker, indicating to do so)

there dialogues as seperate say,
"I stood before Turai Ossa at the battle of Jahai. I was there when he vanquished Palawa Joko. And I carried him from the field of battle when he finally fell at the hands of the Forgotten, here in the Crystal Desert. Ascension is only available to those who are worthy of rising from the ranks of humanity. Seek out the Thirsty River, to the east. There you will prove your worth and be cleansed of your earthy imperfections."

""In life, I was the general of the Elonian army. I served Turai Ossa at the battle of Jahai. Even in death, I still serve him. Before you can gain entrance to Augury Rock, you must travel south to the Dunes of Despair. There you will aid Turai Ossa in infiltrating the Temple of Ascension and garnering the attention of the gods. When their gaze falls upon your shoulders, you will be one step closer to Ascending. Return here when you have passed this test."

"I am Commander Joziah, leader of men, vanquisher of dragons, and lover of women. For more than two hundred years I have stood by Turai Ossa, and I will stand by him two hundred more if that is what it takes. You have reached your final destination on your quest for Ascension, but you have arrived before you are ready. Head northeast to Elona Reach. There you may reassemble the Vision Crystal. Be warned, this is no trifling task. Elona Reach is where our people failed to Ascend."

So the answer to my Question, would of simply been "No, Anet did NOT plan what you were asking", you just assumed I was complaining and got "FFS" about it, when all's I was, was curious if anet had other intentions, and concerned for newb/noob/new players.

guess I'm a slow reader then, because to get through all of Turais Background Info etc about him, the chosen and the Deserts, it took me 15 minutes to read Turais story., especially with how small the text is, and I know you don't have to read his story, I was putting my MULE account in the eyes of a "new player" looking for hints on what to do next... dude, don't scan read, because your missing the point.

Though I'll admit, a New player might have found it quicker then I, snce my vet instincts told me, not to enter Augury because, the mission wasn't available yet(and kind of didnt help, I had the mule past the deserts by the time i asked the Original question on anets Intent), so had to rush a new mule to the deserts, to see what you were on about. so in future refrences the answer to my Original question would of been-
"No Arenanet did not intend on you doing the game that way, how it's done, Is after you gain the quest at Amnoon Oasis from Ghostly Hero(Turai Ossa), You then follow that quest to Augury Rock, after accepting the quest reward from Great Ritual Priest Zahmut, click on Great Ritual Priest Zahmut again to enter the Augury rock and speak to the 3 ghost Commander Joziah, Commander Joziah and General Mendoza, who will each give a clue that the 3 Missions before Augury are in which and What directions for people to start searching"

^^could of saved a whole lot of time and questions.

I think ...yes I did say that you should go to augury rock first and that the npc tells you about the tests ...yes rereading my post that is what it does say.


Though thinking back when my hubby and I first did these---we had the book that had all the information in it (Prima Guild Wars Guide) outdated, but still useful --so we had a little help (and we were a few months behind everyone else since I didnt get the game until August 05).

your first post="if memory serves....you should go to augury rock first, at which point they npc tells you you have to do certain tasks to become ascended...dont remember them telling you exactly what they were, but there are a few secondary quests that will help point you in the right direction."
Which Ritual Priest Zahmut, does not(as I stated just before, my vet instinct thought it was pointless to go inside on my mule, since Augury wasnt available as a mission yet), he gives access inside Augury where the 3 ghost's Commander Joziah, Commander Joziah and General Mendoza give a hint as to what direction to go in, we both assumed it was the secondaries that would lead us Around, I also bought the game later(when they added a Hard Mode option/after nighfalls release), but my dad already played the game, so i never had issues of being lost, because my dad+his guild was taking me through the game at the time.

the Original Question only arose, because I was helpiung a friend, who complained, about their being no primary quest, so I had a theory moment, that I thought I'd ask the community to get more light on the situation but I guess there is a language barrier somewhere, because I had 1 guy act like i was complaining i was lost.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate the answers, and trying to string together what everyone was getting at, i ended up just rushing a 2nd mule to the deserts, to "investigate"/search for hints myself, where i came across the 3 ghost's inside Mesa(well below mesa), and thought maybe these are the guys fadekill was trying to explain, though his responses originally felt vague with the wording- "Turai doesn't give you information about where to head after augury rock, that's correct. But as I said, he leads you to an NPC which then leads you to other NPCs that give you the name of mission outposts and the direction they are in" ... as you might be able to see why I was originally confused by the way he was explaining it it was like he was going by 3rd hand information, unsure entirely of the whole fact, but had the dot points.

not all towns are mission towns that you need to go to, not going in because you 'knew' it wasnt a mission town is not a reason to not enter a town---many outposts have no missions, yak's bend for example, or bergen hot springs, beetletun, ventari's refuge--none of these are missions, yet we entered them and found some npc with a ! over his head to lead us to yet another town, outpost or mission, why would it have changed for the desert? And seeing as its one of the few (2) quests in amnoon , I would have gone to the place they suggested, thinking that there would be another quest or npc to lead me on from there (and from the dialog you found: 'What must I do? "You will have to prove to the gods that you are worthy of Ascension. There are three test you must pass before you will be let into the mesa at Augury Rock. The mesa lies to the east. There you will find Great Ritual Priest Zahmut. He can tell you more.") so going to augury rock would be the thing to do---even the npc with the quest says to (and the wiki says its a primary quest...though, that is debatable). Not knowing what the mesa is would be a little confusing, but getting to augury and then not entering--I would have tried even though I thought I needed to do something else, just because I was already there.
After that...the tests are very ambiguous, yes, they were meant to be so, they are tests!
but yes, my suggestion of taking the 2 quests given in amnoon and doing the one that suggests going to another outpost (augury) IS what you should do, I also said I THOUGHT there was an npc that gave more information out---I did these 9 years+ ago so my memory isnt as bright and shiny now, sorry.

This is also why there is a wiki which can give answers to most questions (and why they added the /help command to the game)

Your first sentence shows you mis-read what i was trying to say, I didn't enter the Mesa from Augury rock(the area you fight the Dopple Ganger, which is where the 3 Ghost i keep naming are waiting to give you the clue, INSIDE THE MISSION ITSELF!.

Priest Zhalmut, tells you nothing Besides there is 3 missions to do before Augury is available as a mission to fight the dopple ganger, he lets you INSIDE the mission whther or not you have or haven't done the 3 prior missions, because inside the Augury Rock Mission itself, is the 3 Ghost, who tell you what directions you need to go.. so I DIDNT GO IN THE MISSION, I WENT IN THE OUTPOST, BUT NOT THE MISSION... is that a little more clearer for you?
or should i re-install FRAPS and make a video, of showing the 3 Ghost inside the Augury Rock MISSION(not oupost), who give you the clues, BEFORE the desert is done?.. the 3 ghost being "Commander Joziah, Commander Joziah and General Mendoza".. so no vet instinct DID tell me NOT TO BOTHER ENTERING THE MISSION of Augury(I DID ENTER THE OUTPOST THOUGH),

and when accepting the reward for "Sands of Souls" all Great Ritual Priest Zahmut says upon acceptance is "I am he. You wish to Ascend, do you? Many have come before you, and all have failed. May the gods grant you the wisdom to light your way. Three tests await you in the desert. Seek and you shall find", once accepted there is no more quest marker above his head.
so people without knowledge of wki or a guide will normally move on to the NPC's with quest markers, which are Jorn Kudebeh and Marchena.

Not many new players do think to click on Great Ritual Priest Zahmut a 2nd time(when he has NO marker), because only then will he give new info which will be "Before you can gain entrance, you must first pass three tests. The former commanders of Elona await you at the base of the Rock itself. They will tell you all you need to know.
Would you like me to take you to them?" (remembering their was no marker to give incentive to click for this dialogue), now once inside the mission itself(though you CANT do the mission at this stage), 3 Ghost, who I've named many times now will say:

Lord Valodor(Before completing Thirsty River)
"I stood before Turai Ossa at the battle of Jahai. I was there when he vanquished Palawa Joko. And I carried him from the field of battle when he finally fell at the hands of the Forgotten, here in the Crystal Desert. Ascension is only available to those who are worthy of rising from the ranks of humanity. Seek out the Thirsty River, to the east. There you will prove your worth and be cleansed of your earthy imperfections."

General Mendoza(Before completing Dunes of Despair)
"In life, I was the general of the Elonian army. I served Turai Ossa at the battle of Jahai. Even in death, I still serve him. Before you can gain entrance to Augury Rock, you must travel south to the Dunes of Despair. There you will aid Turai Ossa in infiltrating the Temple of Ascension and garnering the attention of the gods. When their gaze falls upon your shoulders, you will be one step closer to Ascending. Return here when you have passed this test."

Commander Joziah(Before completing Elona Reach)
"I am Commander Joziah, leader of men, vanquisher of dragons, and lover of women. For more than two hundred years I have stood by Turai Ossa, and I will stand by him two hundred more if that is what it takes. You have reached your final destination on your quest for Ascension, but you have arrived before you are ready. Head northeast to Elona Reach. There you may reassemble the Vision Crystal. Be warned, this is no trifling task. Elona Reach is where our people failed to Ascend."

NOTE THAT THESE # GUYS WHO GIVE THE HINT ARE INSIDE AUGURY ROCK MISSION, NOT INSIDE THE OUTPOST... whch is what i meant by Vet instinct told me not to botherng entering the mission, because it WASN'T ready to be done yet... with testing... you think I wouldnt enter an outpost?, of course i entered the outpost, just not the mission itself.

and as stated, any NEW player or non-Experienced player would move directly onto the next quest marker...

who cares what Wiki says, its NOT a primary quest(Sands of Souls) in the quest log, its put as a secondary quest under "Crystal Deserts Quest".

all Deserts quest=Secondary in quest log, Sands of Souls is closest we have to a Primary Quest but it's not a Primary quest.

and ntop of that, Many of these new players I encounter to help, dont even know how to use the portal shrines to navigate across the deserts(yes I know the lighting up effect should make it obvious), but they don't even get a Hint on how to use them, once again, I was lucky my dad and his guild took me through on my first time playing, and its become second nature to me, to get through the deserts with easy....

all's this, because I was concerned for new players and was just curious about the deserts/anets intent of how to do the mission, I got my answer, conversation/question ENDED!!

First, I want to apologise. The ffs was not directed towards you.

For the question: Of course we can't know if Anet ever planned to create more hand-holding in the desert but their originial design leads me to believe that they didn't.
I want to give one other quote the High Priest at Augury Rock gives you if you ask how to get into the mesa:

"Before you can gain entrance, you must first pass three tests. The former commanders of Elona await you at the base of the Rock itself. They will tell you all you need to know.
Would you like me to take you to them?"

So basically he straight up tells the player that he can and has to enter the mesa to learn "all he needs to know". Which, in the end, is the locations and names of all three mission outposts you need for the ascension.

And as said, I think it is good this way. It actually feels more like an RPG.

and when I started playing I had no clue on how to use the portals either--had to figure it out for myself (hubby and I)...and there was no wiki back then, heck, I didnt even know about guru--so we slogged thru the prima guide and figured it out ALL ON OUR OWN. No vet to tell us how to do it (heck plenty of folks at that time had no clues--and very few vets around)....so new people to the game are getting just what we had back then!

(and sorry, no I had never entered the mission without having completing the 3 tests, didnt even know it was possible to do so---guess ya learn something new everyday).

Already quoted that TWICE... anyway, question answered, thread over.. this is not a area to have conversations,the rules say so themselves.