Anyone else just got a perma ban?

BlankCode

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2014

E/

Stop lieng to yourself 5+ years in this game?? No way.. this game will die in a year max 2 .. bye

Jet

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2009

Mo/E

All you idiots need to stop pretending that your innocent. It goes to show how terrible the Guild Wars community have evolved into. Whether you play PvE or PvP, you clearly knew why you got banned. ArenaNet doesn't need an explanation to ban, they got proof of you violating the EULA. ArenaNet should compile a list and screenshots of everyone who got banned just to embarrass these people.

I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of the community in this game got banned. What ArenaNet should do is to put this game to offline mode or just pull the plug on the servers and end it. The community have run this game into the ground and there's no chance in reviving it.

Enchanted Krystal

Enchanted Krystal

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2011

In a Kurzick retirement village, reminiscing about Magmas shields......

GW1 ???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????] ~ GW2 Teh Academy [PhD]

D/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masil View Post
I loled so freakin hard at this!!!

Warrior The Known

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

OhNo

Mo/

Well, looks like my minipet collection got more valuable

Bye bye botters!

Nekodesu

Nekodesu

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrody T View Post
that's ironic considering you were in [QC], where your boyfriend won gold with at least 2 bots in 2k14
I didn't even play so it's useless to complain to me, fortunately for me I don't bot(hence why all my accs are not banned), and neither does Addy. Oh, and and Flawless, which everyone complained about, turns out he's just a good player(hence why he did not get banned either).

Aphrody T

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2010

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekodesu View Post
I didn't even play so it's useless to complain to me, fortunately for me I don't bot(hence why all my accs are not banned), and neither does Addy. Oh, and and Flawless, which everyone complained about, turns out he's just a good player(hence why he did not get banned either).

i didn't accuse you of botting, it's just ironic that you leeched a trim that won gold (a second time) from using bots, e.g bazuri, yet you complain in this thread about bots

martyn10011

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrody T View Post
that's ironic considering you were in [QC], where your boyfriend won gold with at least 2 bots in 2k14
dug out my old guru account for the first time in literally years just to point out that I don't see flawless banned. whoru?

Nekodesu

Nekodesu

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrody T View Post
i didn't accuse you of botting, it's just ironic that you leeched a trim that won gold (a second time) from using bots, e.g bazuri, yet you complain in this thread about bots
F*ck me for being in a guild with my friends, right? I mean, who would have thought I could maybe have been there because I enjoy some of the people or anything. If that makes me a leecher you can go tell all your friends(if you got any). But thanks for your concern white knight Pande!

Edit: Pande, you left a lot of clues.

Zynkh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2008

[DW] [TEAM] [FAPS]

They just banned syncers/pve botters/people who hacked the game (getting glad title in less than a week). I don't see any of the pvp players banned (won't type any names), so stop using the ''whoru'' on a pve forum, it looks pathetic and sad, most of the people actually know the truth about [QC] and their second gold, because that thing was so obvious.

Aphrody T

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2010

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekodesu View Post
F*ck me for being in a guild with my friends, right? I mean, who would have thought I could maybe have been there because I enjoy some of the people or anything. If that makes me a leecher you can go tell all your friends(if you got any). But thanks for your concern white knight Pande!
yes it's just ironic (i will repeat myself for the third time) because the guild you chose to be in with your "friends" was a guild that botted for gold 2k14...

Pandemonium

Pandemonium

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2014

Good Game Well Played[Gz]

W/

why am i being mentioned @nekodesu

Smoke Nightvogue

Smoke Nightvogue

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Moscow, Russia.

Random Ascalon Fools, Soldiers of Thunderstorm.

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of the community in this game got banned. What ArenaNet should do is to put this game to offline mode or just pull the plug on the servers and end it. The community have run this game into the ground and there's no chance in reviving it.
Good evening. Thought I'd take my time to arrange an answer to this. No matter the amount of syncers, botters and other cheaters ruining the economy & attractiveness of the game for legit players, I'm sure the ArenaNet's Live Server Content Team presented by NERF guild, as well as my own, rather small-numbered, yet tightly-knit voluntarily-involved RAF QA crew will do their best in order to continue improving Guild Wars in the years ahead, be it countering serious playability exploits or amending party-assembling mechanics of certain PvP missions to make them playable, as it happened with Heroes' Ascent.

As to the question why, I can answer it the way Naruto in the well-known manga did: "Because I will never give up or go back on my word, this is my ninja-way!". Of course many of us wish these changes happened more frequently and the game was even more captivating than it's now, yet, one must understand there's another, more modern Guild Wars 2 product lying on ArenaNet's table, and it demands way more spacious and time-consuming support as well.

What was done, in my opinion, shows that ArenaNet still cares about what's going on in their own game, and that they haven't abandoned the desire to provide us with appropriate environment, which was bettered the last year already, and as far as I'm informed, that story doesn't end here.

In relation to the subject of bans, if there are some people who were blocked erroneously, I'm sure the Guild Wars Support Team will do their best in order to resolve the situation, so there's nothing to worry about, really.

Good luck to all of you in your adventures within the Guild Wars world and outside.

Zephyr of Light

Zephyr of Light

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2013

In Z-Way We Trust.

[PhD]-[?????????]-[pupu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke Nightvogue View Post
Good evening. Of course many of us wish these changes happened more frequently and the game was even more captivating than it's now, yet, one must understand there's another, more modern Guild Wars 2 product lying on ArenaNet's table, and it demands way more spacious and time-consuming support as well.
They are so Bussy with GW2 that they forgot to put in Guild Vs Guild into their game, after letting Blizzard devs build, and run their game in true Blizzard style.

You may be right about that they are done here.
They probably wait for the 10 year anniversary to squeeze out the last bit of cash thats left that GW1 has to offer before they pull the plug and think this game has done the job it needed to do.

Providing a sequel that allows to continue to fund their business while failing terribly at it the same way its treating the original game now.

Warrior Bradols

Warrior Bradols

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

Australia

Nagas With Attittude [nWa]

W/

So first off I was perma banned the other day which is fine by me. I had a good time playing this game over the last 9 years and it was drawing to a end for me. I was banned from joining a party with some friends that were syncing gvg (played around 5 matches with them). What i dont understand is how a known scammer in kamadan is still active and scamming and has been left untouched. Anyway best of luck to everyone and good luck for the future


~Bradols

Surge goes pre

Surge goes pre

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

I would never play off Occupy Wall St. for my guild name

We Are the 1 Percent

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Bradols View Post
So first off I was perma banned the other day which is fine by me. I had a good time playing this game over the last 9 years and it was drawing to a end for me. I was banned from joining a party with some friends that were syncing gvg (played around 5 matches with them). What i dont understand is how a known scammer in kamadan is still active and scamming and has been left untouched. Anyway best of luck to everyone and good luck for the future


~Bradols
Yeah, I don't understand why certain people who obviously aren't legit are still around in Kama.

Cheers to you though.

BlankCode

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2014

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke Nightvogue View Post
Good evening. Thought I'd take my time to arrange an answer to this. No matter the amount of syncers, botters and other cheaters ruining the economy & attractiveness of the game for legit players, I'm sure the ArenaNet's Live Server Content Team presented by NERF guild, as well as my own, rather small-numbered, yet tightly-knit voluntarily-involved RAF QA crew will do their best in order to continue improving Guild Wars in the years ahead, be it countering serious playability exploits or amending party-assembling mechanics of certain PvP missions to make them playable, as it happened with Heroes' Ascent.

As to the question why, I can answer it the way Naruto in the well-known manga did: "Because I will never give up or go back on my word, this is my ninja-way!". Of course many of us wish these changes happened more frequently and the game was even more captivating than it's now, yet, one must understand there's another, more modern Guild Wars 2 product lying on ArenaNet's table, and it demands way more spacious and time-consuming support as well.

What was done, in my opinion, shows that ArenaNet still cares about what's going on in their own game, and that they haven't abandoned the desire to provide us with appropriate environment, which was bettered the last year already, and as far as I'm informed, that story doesn't end here.

In relation to the subject of bans, if there are some people who were blocked erroneously, I'm sure the Guild Wars Support Team will do their best in order to resolve the situation, so there's nothing to worry about, really.

Good luck to all of you in your adventures within the Guild Wars world and outside.
LOL Smoke your bunch of cra*p made me come back and say how much stupid stuff you just said there... ArenaNet doesn't care about the game. Or maybe you are stupid i dunno. But either of that the game is soo dieng and rotten dont fool yourself or whatever type of "presenter" you are of gw.. you are bunch of hoax .. and should stop telling people false stuff.. Goodbye

cantalus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

still plenty of bots, still plenty of syncers, halls was held by a terrible pve team last night (euro) running a sync team and lots and lots of rupt bots, not at all subtle either

ACWhammy

ACWhammy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2009

Texas

Gold Trim Guild [gtg]

R/

Well, what little respect I had remaining for Anet just went out the window. For those who know me, I have always been a strong advocate against botting. Yet I have been banned for - you guessed it - botting.

Edit: Has anyone else who has been wrongly accused received a response from support yet?

lemming

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

hi

pls keep drama to QQ

Nayru Forever

Nayru Forever

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2015

Mo/

Too little too late. Cheaters ruined Guild Wars years ago. But glad and it's so funny and satisfying to see these cheaters exposed and banned.

Edit: I'm tempted to become active now that some of the community is cleaned up.

kushy

kushy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayru Forever View Post
I'm tempted to become active now that some of the community is cleaned up.
I'd say a little cleaner. Hopefully an ongoing process.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa

Ayuhmii Shanbwa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Holland

[GaMe]

Rt/

i was like: huh? unrightfully banned? i hope that wont happen to me
but i saw people online around me, i heard of guilds and alliances who lost their leader... that was funny (if it really was a legit ban), and me.... i never even touched a bot, only once did i try to use texmod, but didnt trust it, and never touched it again

anyway, its nice they did this, especially for pvp-ers (which i'm not)
and i guess the game can be played normally one day if they keep it up like this

i dont care if people use bots, but i do care about the game itself, and heard of many people leaving cuz of the bots which kinda took over the game, so i hope for those who were bothered by bots to play nicely again

also: anet can see if they rightfully banned people, and many who were banned for no good reason, got their accounts back, some took a long time, but if its really their fault, they can look into it and get you back

i dont say anet always does it right, but barely see anyone banned for no reason at all, i did see some who got banned for no reason getting their account back (saw on facebook and ingame, even someone i know)

we'll see what happens with the 10th anniversary, maybe they are planning something, who knows
i mean, its close to that time, and they banned alot (especially bots).... maybe....

Bristlebane

Bristlebane

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

Well, there all my 6 accounts got banned. My crime is using GWMultilaunch to run multiple accounts which I did frequently.

I figured out Anet's masterplan for their Guild Wars 10th Anniversary, having everyone banned by then.

Surge goes pre

Surge goes pre

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

I would never play off Occupy Wall St. for my guild name

We Are the 1 Percent

Me/

I still find it hard to believe that just randomly after 5 years of gw multilaunch, anet would start banning for it. Does multilaunch like inject something in the gw client that does something it isn't supposed to? How would anet even know if you use it otherwise? Does anyone know exactly HOW it works?

Side note - perks of playing gw on a mac, I can run 2x clients and I need to do is copy and paste and click twice

legend XIII

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristlebane View Post
Well, there all my 6 accounts got banned

multilaunch has never caused a ban try again lel

Nekodesu

Nekodesu

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristlebane View Post
Well, there all my 6 accounts got banned. My crime is using GWMultilaunch to run multiple accounts which I did frequently.

I figured out Anet's masterplan for their Guild Wars 10th Anniversary, having everyone banned by then.
I use GWMulti launch a lot, that's not why you got banned, and I'm pretty sure you know it. Multi launch don't get you banned. Maybe you don't remember what you did, but you did something.

Title Points R Us

Title Points R Us

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2012

[叫己口] [五ムロ及]

D/R

Their Ban method picked up something foreign & unknown to them in their sweep. imo right now they are scrambling to find out what it is cause even they don't know. I said it once i'll say it again Anet made mistakes but will they go good for them? Will they do the right thing? We shall see. It depends on their agenda whether or not it affects that or not.

Bristlebane

Bristlebane

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

Yes, I did something. I had 4 characters online in same match in Yak's Arena, Shiverpeaks Arena, Shing Jea Arena, and in Kamadan Arena. This was to help someone on Guru to carto those areas.

My entire wealth was some 40 ectos, and at best I had 24 HoM points, none of them PvP related. So whatever I have been doing it clearly gave no wealth or any title progress. Are there any other reason why people would bot other than that? Clearly people would have remembered me better if I had sale threads like selling stacks of armbraces or similar.

I did use GWDressup as well in order to check armor sets I wanted to buy.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

I don't believe ArenaNet has software detection. Not saying I know for a fact (I could well be wrong) but the common understanding seems to be they can't actually detect illicit (or in GWMultilaunch's case, harmless and common) software, they ban based off of user activity (eg, repetitive paths), trades, chat records, and reports.

Anyways, good call trying to cover your asses for when you appeal to support but I doubt they're gonna run across your Guru posts and I doubt even more that they'd be swayed by your fake indignation if they did.

Bristlebane

Bristlebane

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

I will admit one thing,
I too have been thinking people who got banned clearly had done something. And now I hope the people in this post thinking the way I did gets hit in the next wave because they're clearly douches. The difference to me is that I didn't post it, but if that makes me a less douche for just thinking it, well that's on me.

Edit: Ok, to clarify I hope the douches posting about it gets hit in the next wave.

Smoke Nightvogue

Smoke Nightvogue

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Moscow, Russia.

Random Ascalon Fools, Soldiers of Thunderstorm.

R/Mo

I wonder if it was the mistake of banning 1000+ JQ botters, the mistake of banning those who exploited the maxed level of Gladiator title, or the mistake of getting rid of light-fingered players who were engaged in match manipulation? What do you think, guys, out of all things mentioned, what's the mistake and where it dwells exactly?

vineseed

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2014

garb

R/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk View Post
I don't believe ArenaNet has software detection. Not saying I know for a fact (I could well be wrong) but the common understanding seems to be they can't actually detect illicit (or in GWMultilaunch's case, harmless and common) software, they ban based off of user activity (eg, repetitive paths), trades, chat records, and reports.
When a script is in control of a character, that character will move to X and Y coordinates. When a player interacts with that same character, the character will instead send X, Y and Z coordinates to the game server.

They're capable of seeing any program open after the GW client has been engaged. Much like any other ACS (Anti-Cheat Software) used by other ESports media, they're able to diagnose any dispute by checking the client's event logs. This is why people who had used scripts opted out of running an injection, where you inject the script into the client.

Seriously, people who haven't graduated high school and are too dumb to understand how shit works, just like Title Points R Us aka Flint over here, should probably just keep their mouth(s) shut and let the educated people talk amongst themselves.

tl;dr: anet more than likely didn't make a mistake, also, you're retarded flint

Warrior Bradols

Warrior Bradols

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

Australia

Nagas With Attittude [nWa]

W/

I'll just add a bit of info, and don't think I'm defending the cheaters but I joined a party of 8 that was syncing gvg for 5 matches and all 4 of my accounts have been banned for "botting". I can understand getting one banned but not sure why all of them did.

Enchanted Krystal

Enchanted Krystal

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2011

In a Kurzick retirement village, reminiscing about Magmas shields......

GW1 ???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????] ~ GW2 Teh Academy [PhD]

D/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Bradols View Post
I'll just add a bit of info, and don't think I'm defending the cheaters but I joined a party of 8 that was syncing gvg for 5 matches and all 4 of my accounts have been banned for "botting". I can understand getting one banned but not sure why all of them did.
A lot of people seemed to make the misconception that Anet are completely stupid. They check your IP information, even if you botted from every account you had but not your main account, your main account would also be banned. This is where the "I am innocent I tells ya" is coming from IMO, peeps that botted & then logged into their main acc from the same PC. Can you see the logic?

Title Points R Us

Title Points R Us

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2012

[叫己口] [五ムロ及]

D/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enchanted Krystal View Post
A lot of people seemed to make the misconception that Anet are completely stupid. They check your IP information, even if you botted from every account you had but not your main account, your main account would also be banned. This is where the "I am innocent I tells ya" is coming from IMO, peeps that botted & then logged into their main acc from the same PC. Can you see the logic?
That's a given tho. If they are that naive they don't understand how that works I for one feel sorry for them. I'm talking about the people that absolutely didn't do anything. Even Bradols imo didn't do anything wrong provided he wasn't continual that is. Otherwise then yes he was syncing. I know a fair bit of people this has happened to & it's not right at all. I just hope Anet figures out where they went wrong & they fix it for them.

Ethos all your doing is showing people how indepth your match manipulation expertise went. Along with your bot knowledge. Every word you type speaks volumes. I'm not an expert no but I know what's right & wrong, How things are done & detected. I also have opinions that I can voice when I please so don't let your hate for me interrupt me again. Always remember you care about me but it's not mutual.

vineseed

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2014

garb

R/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Title Points R Us View Post
I know what's right & wrong
You wouldn't know between right and wrong if you've lost 17 of 18 accounts due to botting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Title Points R Us View Post
Even Bradols imo didn't do anything wrong provided he wasn't continual that is. Otherwise then yes he was syncing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Bradols View Post
was syncing gvg for 5 matches
Also, he was continual because he synced 5 matches.
BOOM, education strikes again.

The ban happened. Go file a complaint, if you're truly innocent (because god knows you all must be innocent, right?), then you'll be back to logging 18 hours a day buying Charr Carvings in Presearing with periodic forum breaks to post about how much you don't care for this game.

Warrior Bradols

Warrior Bradols

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

Australia

Nagas With Attittude [nWa]

W/

I don't think you aite understand yes I synced 5 games (only 5) on my account I'm not disputing that in anyway I deserve a ban for that. I don't understand banning it for the reason of botting. Also I'm not sure why they would ip ban all account since more then one person might use a computer for the same game. Well that's enough for me hope this helped anyone in the same situation. Good luck and happy gaming.

~ Bradols

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Bradols View Post
I don't understand banning it for the reason of botting.
Semantics, as far as ArenaNet is concerned. Maybe you weren't personally running third party software but you were knowingly benefiting from and partaking in the results. It's not worth the trouble to make a custom ban message for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Bradols View Post
Also I'm not sure why they would ip ban all account since more then one person might use a computer for the same game.
Might, but really unlikely, and oh such a convenient and unverifiable excuse to save some accounts. "Oh yes ArenaNet I did bot on all these accounts but this one [your main, let's say] is my brother's account how can you ban him?" No way on earth to verify that and really, if you're concerned your account might be banned because someone on the same computer and same IP bots or might bot then perhaps you shouldn't use the same computer and same IP. It's a moot point here because that's not the case with you.

HuntMaster Avatar

HuntMaster Avatar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Around

Pillar's of Earth [ROCK]

W/

Decided to log in and finish my HoM and saw this thread. No ban here. I don't mess around with cheat programs or deal with gold farmers, so I'm not surprised. I am surprised by how empty the game seems. It's completely changed from the last time I logged in... about four years ago.

PS: Thank you, Anet, for finally giving me a full party of heroes!

ACWhammy

ACWhammy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2009

Texas

Gold Trim Guild [gtg]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristlebane View Post
Yes, I did something. I had 4 characters online in same match in Yak's Arena, Shiverpeaks Arena, Shing Jea Arena, and in Kamadan Arena. This was to help someone on Guru to carto those areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristlebane View Post
I will admit one thing,
I too have been thinking people who got banned clearly had done something.
Bristlebane makes a good point - it appears no one is safe from the ban. It seems Arenanet is just blanket banning multiple accounts with very little investigation (how can someone thoroughly investigate 2,120+ accounts as of Jan 16th (reported by Shazbawt) in a matter of a few days?) Answer: they can't. Some accounts are being flagged for the tiniest infraction, or perhaps for no infraction at all.

For example - way back when, people were banned for "pre/post trades." Which is when one person trades someone an item in pre (the prophecies tutorial area), then they accept payment in post. These accounts were being flagged as goldsellers and buyers since oft-times there would be nothing else offered on one side of the trade. Since then, it has become common practice to put a worthless item in trade when receiving something for free because of this.

That's just one example. Suppose someone wants to try out PvP, they go to HA, get a random invite from a team that is match manipulating, then join the team inadvertently. It's almost impossible to join a PvP team and know with 100% certainty that they are not engaged in some form of match manipulation, particularly if the player is new to PvP or to Guild Wars in general.

Or as Warrior Bradols pointed out - how "thorough" is Arenanet at examining individual accounts if they ban for a different violation than the user committed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Bradols View Post
I don't think you aite understand yes I synced 5 games (only 5) on my account I'm not disputing that in anyway I deserve a ban for that. I don't understand banning it for the reason of botting. Also I'm not sure why they would ip ban all account since more then one person might use a computer for the same game.
It may be unlikely, but it is possible that more than one person logs on to accounts from the same IP. One may be engaged in an illegal activity and the other one is not. But since they are banning the whole IP, that doesn't support Arenanet's statement that they are "thoroughly" investigating individual accounts and proving "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the user was involved in bots or third-party programs as they claim.

It's not good form to pass judgement and make accusations against other players that are being banned. Sure, some of them may be lying, but not all of them are.

My hope is that Arenanet will release official statements regarding what are now considered bannable offenses (i.e. Multilaunch) and if it is safe to play PvP because of all the match manipulation going on.

I am currently awaiting a response from Guild Wars support regarding the legality of Multilaunch. The former Arenanet Community and Content Leader, Emily Diehl has been quoted as stating that Multilaunch and Texmod are ok to use (Massively, May 26th, 2010). But this was many years ago, and it is possible that Arenanets stance has changed without informing the community since then. If this is the case I would find it highly unethical of them to completely terminate accounts for using Multilaunch. While Arenanet may be within their rights to do so, what a great way to reward some of the most dedicated players after all these years (sarcasm.)