Hey everyone, I was wondering if I could have some brainstorming help with a project of mine. I'm trying to rush through the game as fast as possible, obviously meaning skipping majority of the quests and missions of the game.
The limitations put on this would be as if I had just purchased the game fresh- starting from pre-searing, no help from pre-existing characters/storage/skills, etc. I can only buy skills from the skill trainers where they were originally obtained. No help from other players, only henchmen allowed. I am however using /bonus for the extra weapons and fire imp ally (the shield is pretty handy early on for running past enemes).
I've put around 40 hours of theorycrafting and practical play testing into a couple of builds and I'm just completely walled. I haven't played prophecies all the way through ever before, so my knowledge of campaign specific strategy is limited. It's difficult because you're playing with only henchmen and you're extremely underlevelled. I'm fine until the fork in descison between trying to run down from Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge and then over to Thunderhead Keep for the first actual compulsory mission, or going to Crystal Desert from Sanctum Cay and trying to finish the desert quests to take me to Droks. For reference, I got to Amnoon Oasis at level 8 and could probably get there in under 4 hours.
My builds tried to focus on survivability rather than speed for consistancy. For reference, I tried a R/E with the passive +30 ele armor from ranger and +armor skills from ele, as well as high block chance stances from ranger. Having a pet also helped soak up some damage. This wasn't super successful, but managed to get to crystal desert eventually. Missions in the crystal desert were too tough as even a level 13. I'm honestly not sure if levels even make that much of a difference.
My second try was with a limited version of a 55 monk (Mo/W for early access to Sprint). This saw me focus on regeneration + survivability until I could get Protective Spirit in Amnoon Oasis (mending + healing breeze + and vital blessing), which I was then hoping would be enough to do a Droks run with a 55 varient. As a level 8, I only needed a few superior runes to get my hp down to around 55 or less. The 2 main weaknesses of 55 monk being lifesteal and enchantment break, it's possible to dodge the wurm lifesteal skills by timing reversal of fortune. Unfortunately, there's also a fair amount of enchantment removal, making a droks run with this build impossible right? (without spell breaker which you can't get until Snake Dance)
Any help/tips/ideas are appreciated, I'd love to make this work- particularly since I've put in so much time and effort already into getting so far! It's also worth noting I've never been past this point in prophecies before, so I might need tips for the later stages of the game too because I don't really know what to expect (Ring of Fire missions, etc.)
I've already done it for factions which is less tedious because of shadowform and I intend to get a single sitting speedrun completed soon (hopefully finishing the whole game in under 6 hours). I'm also interested in doing EotN and Nightfall eventually- I've finished EotN casually a few times before so I know it reasonably well, but I've hardly played Nightfall- not sure what profession would be best here for a h/h speedrun, and not sure which mission forks to choose (which are easiest/fastest, etc.)
Apologies for the long post, I look forward to reading any help you're willing to give me!
PS: I hope this is the right/best place for this kind of forum post!
Prophecies Campaign 'Speedrun' (and other campaigns)
Vincento
Marty Silverblade
I don't have any experience doing this kind of thing (being a completionist means I'm typically overleveled) so I'd need to stew on this awhile before giving any hard advice. However:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincento
Quote:
Missions in the crystal desert were too tough as even a level 13. I'm honestly not sure if levels even make that much of a difference.
In a nutshell, your low level will cause your damage to suffer, both innately and because of low attributes. Enemy damage will be boosted only via having an increased chance to crit hit. I suspect the level deficiency will only hurt defence-wise in terms of lower max health. Provided you keep your armor level in line with the content it's a matter of having less leeway for mistakes rather than something that's really going to hurt you. Having said that, you'd be pushed for cash given you're skipping as much as possible. Still, I'd be much more concerned with your ability to deal damage, especially with only henchies.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damage_calculation
Also, it's not in the spirit of the challenge but you could give yourself a big boost by making use of zaishen quests. You'd have to wait a long time to get the ones you need so it's hardly practical, but there you go.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damage_calculation
Also, it's not in the spirit of the challenge but you could give yourself a big boost by making use of zaishen quests. You'd have to wait a long time to get the ones you need so it's hardly practical, but there you go.
Vincento
Thanks for the thoughtful reply 
When I mean that levels didn't make much of a difference, I meant that in a way somewhere along the lines of: even if I was level 20 with max armor and having limited skillsets, I think I'd still be stuck in the desert. In this run with the ranger, I managed to get 4/5 pieces of armor with an AR of 64 if I recall correctly, (I think from the armour merchant near Sanctum Cay?). Even with this, my party just didn't have the damage for the missions. Safe to say I think my ranger build just didn't cut it. Survivabilty wasn't as great as I had hoped even with dodge + armor skills, and with that set, I had no damage to help out the party whatsoever. If you had any profession/build ideas I'd be curious I think that might be the main way of making a run possible.
PS: Apologies for the late reply, didn't get an email notification as I thought I would!
When I mean that levels didn't make much of a difference, I meant that in a way somewhere along the lines of: even if I was level 20 with max armor and having limited skillsets, I think I'd still be stuck in the desert. In this run with the ranger, I managed to get 4/5 pieces of armor with an AR of 64 if I recall correctly, (I think from the armour merchant near Sanctum Cay?). Even with this, my party just didn't have the damage for the missions. Safe to say I think my ranger build just didn't cut it. Survivabilty wasn't as great as I had hoped even with dodge + armor skills, and with that set, I had no damage to help out the party whatsoever. If you had any profession/build ideas I'd be curious
I think that might be the main way of making a run possible. PS: Apologies for the late reply, didn't get an email notification as I thought I would!
Marty Silverblade
(If you want email notifications you need to subscribe via the Thread Tools dropdown box near the top of your first post.)
Again, I'd like to mention I don't have any experience with this so my advice is purely my first impression. It may very well be rubbish.
At level 13, any armor affected damage you (and your imp) produce is going to struggle to be effective against desert standard foes. Assuming you keep going with the Ranger, I'd focus on doing things that don't rely on it, like interrupting (if you can't produce damage, shutting down Word of Healing, Kinetic Armor and so on will go a long way to ending fights) or condition spreading. Maybe you could go /Me for some interrupts with half decent damage, though it'd eat energy and stress your already low amount of attribute points. In any case the desert is a pain because one backliner isn't enough but two seems like it costs too much in terms of offense. With heroes you can just run one really good one or use hybrids or things like Minion Masters that provide defense but obviously that's not an option. With two monks and you struggling to pull your weight the desert is going to be a massive challenge either way. Running directly to Droknar's Forge would be preferable but likely not within your capabilities.
It would be worthwhile to work backwards too. We know for a fact that Prophecies can be completed without relying on other characters, people or campaigns so long as you're not skipping experience or opportunities to get skills. There must be a point between your current level of xp and level 20 where completion becomes possible. Instead of trying to make your first completion the quickest one you can perhaps put aside some time to grab a level or two to see whether you get past that breakpoint. When you manage to complete the campaign look back and try to find opportunities where you could have saved time. In other words, first figure out which elements (xp/skills/gold/equipment) are essential for completion, then figure out the most efficient way to get them. This is especially important given that you haven't ever finished the campaign at all.
Also, just for clarification, are you allowing yourself to jump over to other campaigns for skills?
Again, I'd like to mention I don't have any experience with this so my advice is purely my first impression. It may very well be rubbish.
At level 13, any armor affected damage you (and your imp) produce is going to struggle to be effective against desert standard foes. Assuming you keep going with the Ranger, I'd focus on doing things that don't rely on it, like interrupting (if you can't produce damage, shutting down Word of Healing, Kinetic Armor and so on will go a long way to ending fights) or condition spreading. Maybe you could go /Me for some interrupts with half decent damage, though it'd eat energy and stress your already low amount of attribute points. In any case the desert is a pain because one backliner isn't enough but two seems like it costs too much in terms of offense. With heroes you can just run one really good one or use hybrids or things like Minion Masters that provide defense but obviously that's not an option. With two monks and you struggling to pull your weight the desert is going to be a massive challenge either way. Running directly to Droknar's Forge would be preferable but likely not within your capabilities.
It would be worthwhile to work backwards too. We know for a fact that Prophecies can be completed without relying on other characters, people or campaigns so long as you're not skipping experience or opportunities to get skills. There must be a point between your current level of xp and level 20 where completion becomes possible. Instead of trying to make your first completion the quickest one you can perhaps put aside some time to grab a level or two to see whether you get past that breakpoint. When you manage to complete the campaign look back and try to find opportunities where you could have saved time. In other words, first figure out which elements (xp/skills/gold/equipment) are essential for completion, then figure out the most efficient way to get them. This is especially important given that you haven't ever finished the campaign at all.
Also, just for clarification, are you allowing yourself to jump over to other campaigns for skills?
Vincento
Thanks for the subscription help
For this particular run I don't want to have any help (skills or otherwise) from any other campaigns, so no jumping. I MIGHT at some point try and do an all campaigns run which would only really be time consuming, but not particularly difficult as money and skills are much less of an issue. But that aside, I was aiming to runs of individual campaigns first.
As a speedrun, I had hoped to be able to do it all in a single sitting. I found I had much more success in survival (and hence speed) as a monk, despite a few enchantment stripping areas. That being said, playing as a ranger was my first playthrough that far into the game, so it may have been largely my own lack of experience that made Monk feel so much easier. I haven't done Crystal Desert and beyond at this point either, but my focus has just been to try and get past it first.
You give sound advice with working backwards from completion. It would also give a huge foundation of in-game experience with the campaign and missions. That being said, as you can imagine it will be incredibly time consuming
In terms of lacking levels, something I did look into a little bit is how to experience farm- there is a quest called "The Ascalon Settlement’, obtained just outside of Lion's Arch that provides lots of high level allies and gives you massive amounts of experience from kills. It's something I was definitely going to look into in terms of what the most efficient farming/killing pattern to maximize experience is. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Ascalon_Settlement That should help get me up to around level 18 or 19 fairly fast when combined with other quests, which would mean I'd probably reach the desert around level 20. Only issue with that is I feel like maybe I need to keep the fire imp ally as long as possible, so reaching level 20 by desert would mean I'd probably do less damage than if I was level 19 with the imp.
You're also right in saying that the best way would be to just run directly to Droknar's Forge- It would save all the time it takes to go from Lion's Arch to Sanctum Cay, doing the mission there and then the entire Crystal Desert sequence (AT LEAST 4 hours, probably more). That's why I tried the 55 monk build. Unfortunately I didn't research the Drok's run necromancer units or the life stealing + knockdown of the wurms, so it was a little crushing to get there and find the 55 build was not at all good enough.
Logically, doing a Dronar's run as a 55 monk would mean I wouldn't have to grind levels as armor becomes irrelevant, as does health (and attributes because of the Superior runes). I looked up potential other running builds from people who had done runs, and all the builds I find use other skills from other campaigns. I'm not sure if it would be possible to make a build to run it from prophecies alone, even if you were level 20 and had good armor. Out of all the professions, there might be ONE that could do it. As to which one, I'm not sure yet.
The ranger build I tried really struggled to do anything, especially early game. The buff skills weren't enough to help survivability or speed. The natural elemental armor bonus rangers have made little difference. I'm fairly sure it's not the best profession for doing a run. Even later on fully kitted, I'd imagine there are more useful profession. My second thought instead of trying to be a 55 monk was that perhaps I could get healing skills to get through the desert and then only get 1 healer henchman, so it's as if we have 1 and a half, but I'd have to try and see if it works at all. Hypothetically it means you get one more damage henchman, and a bit more heal than just the one healer henchman you would otherwise have. I think you're going to be a little bit of a dead weight in with damage or healing either way. Regardless, I'd have to be higher level than what I was and even then I'm not sure how well it would go.
I found sprint incredibly useful as a survival skill in some areas. Outrunning enemies trying to get in a few last bits of damage kept me alive in several places. Not only that, but you get it early on and it's good for fast completion. That's one plus for being part warrior.
Interrupts seem like a sound idea, though mesmer primaries are frail, it could possible to be a mesmer secondary (Mo/Me?)? It might struggle with energy to do so on a ranger, and sprint (warrior secondary) was invaluable on monk. I'm not sure that the ranger interrupts are worth getting either. One could consider profession changing, but it's only available at the Crystal Desert, requires quests and costs money.
I think at this point, levels aren't an issue, I could farm those fairly quickly if required, maybe an extra hour or two tops. In summary, the top two priorities in order would be:
1. Looking at a profession/build that would be able to navigate a run to Droknar's forge. This would save an insane amount of time, but likely to be near impossible just using prophecies.
2. If the above is impossible, looking at a profession/build that would be able to hold its own in the crystal desert at level 18-19 with second to best armor from here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sol_Pyrrhus. It's not possible to get better armor until after the Crystal Desert, and being level 20 loses the fire imp.
I'm not sure that there's any other way to complete a run in a single sitting (let's say, less than 15 hours). I greatly appreciate your help!
For this particular run I don't want to have any help (skills or otherwise) from any other campaigns, so no jumping. I MIGHT at some point try and do an all campaigns run which would only really be time consuming, but not particularly difficult as money and skills are much less of an issue. But that aside, I was aiming to runs of individual campaigns first.
As a speedrun, I had hoped to be able to do it all in a single sitting. I found I had much more success in survival (and hence speed) as a monk, despite a few enchantment stripping areas. That being said, playing as a ranger was my first playthrough that far into the game, so it may have been largely my own lack of experience that made Monk feel so much easier. I haven't done Crystal Desert and beyond at this point either, but my focus has just been to try and get past it first.
You give sound advice with working backwards from completion. It would also give a huge foundation of in-game experience with the campaign and missions. That being said, as you can imagine it will be incredibly time consuming
In terms of lacking levels, something I did look into a little bit is how to experience farm- there is a quest called "The Ascalon Settlement’, obtained just outside of Lion's Arch that provides lots of high level allies and gives you massive amounts of experience from kills. It's something I was definitely going to look into in terms of what the most efficient farming/killing pattern to maximize experience is. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Ascalon_Settlement That should help get me up to around level 18 or 19 fairly fast when combined with other quests, which would mean I'd probably reach the desert around level 20. Only issue with that is I feel like maybe I need to keep the fire imp ally as long as possible, so reaching level 20 by desert would mean I'd probably do less damage than if I was level 19 with the imp.
You're also right in saying that the best way would be to just run directly to Droknar's Forge- It would save all the time it takes to go from Lion's Arch to Sanctum Cay, doing the mission there and then the entire Crystal Desert sequence (AT LEAST 4 hours, probably more). That's why I tried the 55 monk build. Unfortunately I didn't research the Drok's run necromancer units or the life stealing + knockdown of the wurms, so it was a little crushing to get there and find the 55 build was not at all good enough.
Logically, doing a Dronar's run as a 55 monk would mean I wouldn't have to grind levels as armor becomes irrelevant, as does health (and attributes because of the Superior runes). I looked up potential other running builds from people who had done runs, and all the builds I find use other skills from other campaigns. I'm not sure if it would be possible to make a build to run it from prophecies alone, even if you were level 20 and had good armor. Out of all the professions, there might be ONE that could do it. As to which one, I'm not sure yet.
The ranger build I tried really struggled to do anything, especially early game. The buff skills weren't enough to help survivability or speed. The natural elemental armor bonus rangers have made little difference. I'm fairly sure it's not the best profession for doing a run. Even later on fully kitted, I'd imagine there are more useful profession. My second thought instead of trying to be a 55 monk was that perhaps I could get healing skills to get through the desert and then only get 1 healer henchman, so it's as if we have 1 and a half, but I'd have to try and see if it works at all. Hypothetically it means you get one more damage henchman, and a bit more heal than just the one healer henchman you would otherwise have. I think you're going to be a little bit of a dead weight in with damage or healing either way. Regardless, I'd have to be higher level than what I was and even then I'm not sure how well it would go.
I found sprint incredibly useful as a survival skill in some areas. Outrunning enemies trying to get in a few last bits of damage kept me alive in several places. Not only that, but you get it early on and it's good for fast completion. That's one plus for being part warrior.
Interrupts seem like a sound idea, though mesmer primaries are frail, it could possible to be a mesmer secondary (Mo/Me?)? It might struggle with energy to do so on a ranger, and sprint (warrior secondary) was invaluable on monk. I'm not sure that the ranger interrupts are worth getting either. One could consider profession changing, but it's only available at the Crystal Desert, requires quests and costs money.
I think at this point, levels aren't an issue, I could farm those fairly quickly if required, maybe an extra hour or two tops. In summary, the top two priorities in order would be:
1. Looking at a profession/build that would be able to navigate a run to Droknar's forge. This would save an insane amount of time, but likely to be near impossible just using prophecies.
2. If the above is impossible, looking at a profession/build that would be able to hold its own in the crystal desert at level 18-19 with second to best armor from here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sol_Pyrrhus. It's not possible to get better armor until after the Crystal Desert, and being level 20 loses the fire imp.
I'm not sure that there's any other way to complete a run in a single sitting (let's say, less than 15 hours). I greatly appreciate your help!
ggpwntthxbai
As someone who just completed Prophecies as a monk on a fresh acct with no gold/items/abilities/trading/heroes/summoning stones/etc. playing alone with only hench and doing everything in order just like the good ole days, let me tell you that there are a couple of things that I think will be extremely difficult in this challenge.
1. Final boss in Thirsty River is a monk boss standing next to a priest and they can't reliably be split and you'll have about a minute to kill them before they res their team. Both have WoH which has been buffed since release to the point where they massively out heal hench DPS. To beat them as Mo/W (I was also mo/w like you) you should ping henches on the priest and use Dchop on the boss's WoH.
2. Hells precipice is an absolute bitch. Took me around 10 tries to do it. The Titans/hulks/fists/hands are laughably easy even heavily aggroed, but the Spark of the Titans are absolute rape since the buff to mind burn making it AoE. They were hitting me for ~180 per mind burn which in conjunction with Rodgorts obliterates the balled up henches that can't be flagged. Doing this mission felt like fusing against SF spike.
In terms of finding a character that doesn't struggle in the desert at 18-19 with near max AL I don't think you should have any problem. I was 17 with my monk when I went to the desert and had 51AL and had no troubles (other than that part of thirsty) and I didn't have fire imp. For me I think monk was a bad choice. Hench dmg is terrible but fire imp would probably help a lot. I would've liked to be a Mesmer/Ele/ranger though.
1. Final boss in Thirsty River is a monk boss standing next to a priest and they can't reliably be split and you'll have about a minute to kill them before they res their team. Both have WoH which has been buffed since release to the point where they massively out heal hench DPS. To beat them as Mo/W (I was also mo/w like you
) you should ping henches on the priest and use Dchop on the boss's WoH.2. Hells precipice is an absolute bitch. Took me around 10 tries to do it. The Titans/hulks/fists/hands are laughably easy even heavily aggroed, but the Spark of the Titans are absolute rape since the buff to mind burn making it AoE. They were hitting me for ~180 per mind burn which in conjunction with Rodgorts obliterates the balled up henches that can't be flagged. Doing this mission felt like fusing against SF spike.
In terms of finding a character that doesn't struggle in the desert at 18-19 with near max AL I don't think you should have any problem. I was 17 with my monk when I went to the desert and had 51AL and had no troubles (other than that part of thirsty) and I didn't have fire imp. For me I think monk was a bad choice. Hench dmg is terrible but fire imp would probably help a lot. I would've liked to be a Mesmer/Ele/ranger though.
Vincento
Thanks for the adivce!
Sounds like skipping Thirsty River is worthwhile, I wasn't even running proper weapons when I was playing seeing as I was so underlevelled that I did almost no damage anyway. Just another reason to try and make a Droknar's Forge run work. If I can't get it to work, I'll just need to bring good interrupt when I do this mission I suppose.
The next part is what concerns me a little more, finding lots of difficult things later in the game and struggling. Apparently wards are bad because the henchmen just run out of it, but there are elemental armor skills that MIGHT be useful, or skills like Mantra of Flame. I remember reading about it on the wiki and they recommended Ward Against Elements/Ward Against Harm to help too.
You'll have to excuse me but I'm terrible with abbreviations and some GW jargon, what's fusing and SF spike?
I'm also curious as to why you think monk was a bad profession choice, and what skills you were generally running, just to help me out. Where does monk struggle, and would other professions struggle less? Cheers for the help! Any other specific advice would be appreciated, if you have any of course
Sounds like skipping Thirsty River is worthwhile, I wasn't even running proper weapons when I was playing seeing as I was so underlevelled that I did almost no damage anyway. Just another reason to try and make a Droknar's Forge run work. If I can't get it to work, I'll just need to bring good interrupt when I do this mission I suppose.
The next part is what concerns me a little more, finding lots of difficult things later in the game and struggling. Apparently wards are bad because the henchmen just run out of it, but there are elemental armor skills that MIGHT be useful, or skills like Mantra of Flame. I remember reading about it on the wiki and they recommended Ward Against Elements/Ward Against Harm to help too.
You'll have to excuse me but I'm terrible with abbreviations and some GW jargon, what's fusing and SF spike?
I'm also curious as to why you think monk was a bad profession choice, and what skills you were generally running, just to help me out. Where does monk struggle, and would other professions struggle less? Cheers for the help! Any other specific advice would be appreciated, if you have any of course
Marty Silverblade
I don't think The Ascalon Settlement is going to get you as much xp as you think. The foes there are fairly low level so anything past level 14-15 is going to be quite inefficient. (Assuming of course that you'll be doing this with only the quest NPCs. If you intend to take henchies with you your xp gains are going to be pretty worthless.) Still, it's a good start. I'd also mention The Duke's Daughter + Althea's Ashes, which are worth 2k xp each. You'll probably stop off at Grendich Courthouse as you run through Ascalon and they'll be fairly simple (hopefully) once you've got some levels under your belt.
If you're going to try a strategy that involves pumping up your level to near max I'd tentatively suggest trying a flexible caster class, like Ele or Necro. It'd make the earlier game harder to run through but the late game easier. Interrupts and minion walls really can be a godsend. It provides incentive to go through ascension, though I'm sure you could just decide what would be most useful (e.g, /Me for the Ele for interrupts) and live with it. Of course, if you can't manage the Droks run you'll need to do this anyway.
I agree keeping the imp is more valuable than level 20.
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When it comes to Drok's running remember that it's as much technique as it is build. So much so in fact, that all professions can do it. Some more easily than others, naturally. In a similar vein to my 'work backwards' advice from earlier, perhaps try getting a warrior up to speed and running it without xp handicaps and whatnot like you may intend to. You'll need to dig up some old builds though as the modern ones are lame and have spell immunity and shout based knockdown immunity skills from other campaigns. I'm only familiar with the warrior builds so I can't give any advice off the top of my head as to how other professions did it. One thing that may cause trouble is that Mind Freeze (90% movement speed reduction) was buffed to have a 5 second recharge in the 2012 Ele buff. Originally it was 20 seconds, so when you came across some Imps you'd only see them cast it once each. Now it could be multiple times. IIRC they only appear in the top section of Lornar's Pass and may be partially avoidable, but there may be other things of concern.
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"fusing and SF spike" refer to Infuse Health and Searing Flames. Typically one uses Infuse to counteract a spike, but with the henchies balling and Mind Burn and Rodgort's Invocation both having been buffed they'll all be taking a crapton of damage all at once. Infuse won't be much use in that situation since it'll only help one henchie. Interrupts would be worth their weight in gold here, though again, don't neglect the importance of technique - if you can aggro them well and force them to burn their spells on a single (hopefully protted) target (i.e, you) then that should make life a lot easier. Wards might help but they'd be a mixed blessing - they'd keep everyone better protected but also more likely to get hit by AoE's. Wards alone aren't going to solve the problem alone either - even if they were to cut the incoming damage in half, a trio of Sparks will still wreck a caster ball. It really is imperative that you complete the campaign and see these things for yourself.
If you're going to try a strategy that involves pumping up your level to near max I'd tentatively suggest trying a flexible caster class, like Ele or Necro. It'd make the earlier game harder to run through but the late game easier. Interrupts and minion walls really can be a godsend. It provides incentive to go through ascension, though I'm sure you could just decide what would be most useful (e.g, /Me for the Ele for interrupts) and live with it. Of course, if you can't manage the Droks run you'll need to do this anyway.
I agree keeping the imp is more valuable than level 20.
----
When it comes to Drok's running remember that it's as much technique as it is build. So much so in fact, that all professions can do it. Some more easily than others, naturally. In a similar vein to my 'work backwards' advice from earlier, perhaps try getting a warrior up to speed and running it without xp handicaps and whatnot like you may intend to. You'll need to dig up some old builds though as the modern ones are lame and have spell immunity and shout based knockdown immunity skills from other campaigns. I'm only familiar with the warrior builds so I can't give any advice off the top of my head as to how other professions did it. One thing that may cause trouble is that Mind Freeze (90% movement speed reduction) was buffed to have a 5 second recharge in the 2012 Ele buff. Originally it was 20 seconds, so when you came across some Imps you'd only see them cast it once each. Now it could be multiple times. IIRC they only appear in the top section of Lornar's Pass and may be partially avoidable, but there may be other things of concern.
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"fusing and SF spike" refer to Infuse Health and Searing Flames. Typically one uses Infuse to counteract a spike, but with the henchies balling and Mind Burn and Rodgort's Invocation both having been buffed they'll all be taking a crapton of damage all at once. Infuse won't be much use in that situation since it'll only help one henchie. Interrupts would be worth their weight in gold here, though again, don't neglect the importance of technique - if you can aggro them well and force them to burn their spells on a single (hopefully protted) target (i.e, you) then that should make life a lot easier. Wards might help but they'd be a mixed blessing - they'd keep everyone better protected but also more likely to get hit by AoE's. Wards alone aren't going to solve the problem alone either - even if they were to cut the incoming damage in half, a trio of Sparks will still wreck a caster ball. It really is imperative that you complete the campaign and see these things for yourself.
Vincento
You're likely right about the Ascalonian Settlement, but even levelling to 15 or thereabouts will be of tremendous help. I found that when I combined it with Orrian Excavation as it spawns a whole heap of Enchanted clays. That quest leads into getting a signet of capture for skills later on. I was only level 13 when I got to Crystal Desert as a ranger, and much lower than that as a monk. I'll still get experience from quests and missions along the way. It does also mean that I may well get to keep the imp until close to the end of the Ring of Fire missions.
I find it rather interesting just how vastly different running factions is than prophecies. Aside from being the easier game and having access to Assassin, you get so much more experience through the game, so much so that it's faster to not finish majority of the mid and end game primary quests to try and keep your level down and keep the fire imp ally. Prophecies certainly is more challenging in that respect.
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Technique and practice is of course the majority of where I'll get a large chunk of time save, comparative to someone who wouldn't speedrun the game. Speedrunning involves a lot of practice of individual missions and wilderness area runs, learning enemy spawns etc. That's probably one of the reasons why getting through was much easier with a monk the second time. Of course, it would also be largely dependent on the build, the two work hand in hand. I find it very encouraging that you say any profession can run to Droknar's, although I'd assume some are better than others and some would be very challenging considering you wouldn't be quite level 20 and would have sub par skills and armor. Which profession to use would be based on how easy it was to do the run (it has to be achievable majority of the time with practice), on how well/fast the profession progresses through the early game, and possibly most importantly one that can actually close out the game. There's no point choosing a profession that gets through the first two criteria, only to get completely stuck in later missions.
Mind Freeze was a little frustrating as a monk, but eventually you'd walk out of their patrol range and they would leave you alone. Depending on the spawns, they won't hit you every time, so if you run into them, you can always map travel back to the outpost and start again. I take henchmen with me and send them in slightly before me so they draw a lot of the initial spells and I can run through unimpeded. They're level 10 or so though, so majority don't survive past the first mob of enemies. The second lot of enemies is always ice imps, but they have varying patterns of movement, some of which (even if only rarely) make them completely avoidable. After that is where the wurms start popping up, as do the enchantment stripping necromancer units that halted any further advancement with the 55 monk, so I have little knowledge of what lies beyond the first tunnel area. I've tried looking at runs, but as you say- from what I find they mostly have spell immunity or knockdown protection.
Warrior seems like it has the potential to be one of the better professions. High armor rating and early access to sprint makes it good enough early to probably get through. Not sure what secondary would be best, but I think if I was going through Droknar's and the only profession changers are in the Crystal Desert, it would have to be good enough to see me through the whole game. I think they get a few axe interrupts and whatnot too. Interrupts seem very good when you have to rely on henchmen. Melee range means that I'm more often a target, and may die more though wouldn't it? Perhaps not. I was also slightly concerned with energy intensive secondary professions. Endure Pain and a few other skills are also useful for survival.
It'd be great if you could share some of your builds of the skills I'd need from pre-desert, or just any builds you used to use in general. You hit the nail on the head when you said all the modern ones use spell immunity and anti-knockdown shouts. I'd still have to figure out when and where to use skills, but with experimentation I'll get there. It would just help serve as a framework for me to practice and tweak.
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When it comes to practice and experiencing the ring of fire missions for myself, you're probably right. It might take a while to do on a prophecies only character, so I might jump over with another character- just to see what the missions are like. Practice is always going to be the key, knowing where and when to be and enemy spawns.
I find it rather interesting just how vastly different running factions is than prophecies. Aside from being the easier game and having access to Assassin, you get so much more experience through the game, so much so that it's faster to not finish majority of the mid and end game primary quests to try and keep your level down and keep the fire imp ally. Prophecies certainly is more challenging in that respect.
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Technique and practice is of course the majority of where I'll get a large chunk of time save, comparative to someone who wouldn't speedrun the game. Speedrunning involves a lot of practice of individual missions and wilderness area runs, learning enemy spawns etc. That's probably one of the reasons why getting through was much easier with a monk the second time. Of course, it would also be largely dependent on the build, the two work hand in hand. I find it very encouraging that you say any profession can run to Droknar's, although I'd assume some are better than others and some would be very challenging considering you wouldn't be quite level 20 and would have sub par skills and armor. Which profession to use would be based on how easy it was to do the run (it has to be achievable majority of the time with practice), on how well/fast the profession progresses through the early game, and possibly most importantly one that can actually close out the game. There's no point choosing a profession that gets through the first two criteria, only to get completely stuck in later missions.
Mind Freeze was a little frustrating as a monk, but eventually you'd walk out of their patrol range and they would leave you alone. Depending on the spawns, they won't hit you every time, so if you run into them, you can always map travel back to the outpost and start again. I take henchmen with me and send them in slightly before me so they draw a lot of the initial spells and I can run through unimpeded. They're level 10 or so though, so majority don't survive past the first mob of enemies. The second lot of enemies is always ice imps, but they have varying patterns of movement, some of which (even if only rarely) make them completely avoidable. After that is where the wurms start popping up, as do the enchantment stripping necromancer units that halted any further advancement with the 55 monk, so I have little knowledge of what lies beyond the first tunnel area. I've tried looking at runs, but as you say- from what I find they mostly have spell immunity or knockdown protection.
Warrior seems like it has the potential to be one of the better professions. High armor rating and early access to sprint makes it good enough early to probably get through. Not sure what secondary would be best, but I think if I was going through Droknar's and the only profession changers are in the Crystal Desert, it would have to be good enough to see me through the whole game. I think they get a few axe interrupts and whatnot too. Interrupts seem very good when you have to rely on henchmen. Melee range means that I'm more often a target, and may die more though wouldn't it? Perhaps not. I was also slightly concerned with energy intensive secondary professions. Endure Pain and a few other skills are also useful for survival.
It'd be great if you could share some of your builds of the skills I'd need from pre-desert, or just any builds you used to use in general. You hit the nail on the head when you said all the modern ones use spell immunity and anti-knockdown shouts. I'd still have to figure out when and where to use skills, but with experimentation I'll get there. It would just help serve as a framework for me to practice and tweak.
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When it comes to practice and experiencing the ring of fire missions for myself, you're probably right. It might take a while to do on a prophecies only character, so I might jump over with another character- just to see what the missions are like. Practice is always going to be the key, knowing where and when to be and enemy spawns.
Marty Silverblade
The warrior bar went like this:
Charge
Sprint
Balanced Stance
Endure Pain
Holy Veil
Smite Hex (though I'm not sure why Remove Hex wasn't used instead. Recharges may have been different.)
+A self heal (Healing Signet is the most logical due to attributes and has been buffed a few times but opportunities to use it will be limited (you'll find safe spots with experience). I recall seeing Heal Area on some bars.)
+Something else. I saw a build with Purge Conditions though I'm not sure what for. If it's for cripple you might be able to do without it now that Charge removes cripple on use...
...though that's irrelevant since it's not available until the fire islands, which kinda throws the whole build out the window. It's important mainly because it allows you to move faster (thus breaking off aggro) while having knockdown immunity through Balanced Stance. It may very well be possible to do without but the lack of experience, max armor and levels will make it that much harder.
Actually, you could use a Birthday Cupcake to make up for the loss of Charge. Getting one 'legitimately' could be tricky though. You could try doing a run during the event and using one that dropped for you, or perhaps buy one at fair market value.
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Getting through the funnel area at the top of Lornar's Pass is conveniently the toughest part of the run. Dreadnought's Drift can be tricky with the clumping spawns, especially when they're right there when you enter, but I don't recall dying there much. Snake Dance is just long and an exercise in tolerating the Tundra Giants. Talus Chute can be cruised through too barring a somewhat ugly patch of Avicara near a rez shrine, though you'll get the level 20 henchies from Camp Rankor so they can help if you need.
Charge
Sprint
Balanced Stance
Endure Pain
Holy Veil
Smite Hex (though I'm not sure why Remove Hex wasn't used instead. Recharges may have been different.)
+A self heal (Healing Signet is the most logical due to attributes and has been buffed a few times but opportunities to use it will be limited (you'll find safe spots with experience). I recall seeing Heal Area on some bars.)
+Something else. I saw a build with Purge Conditions though I'm not sure what for. If it's for cripple you might be able to do without it now that Charge removes cripple on use...
...though that's irrelevant since it's not available until the fire islands, which kinda throws the whole build out the window. It's important mainly because it allows you to move faster (thus breaking off aggro) while having knockdown immunity through Balanced Stance. It may very well be possible to do without but the lack of experience, max armor and levels will make it that much harder.
Actually, you could use a Birthday Cupcake to make up for the loss of Charge. Getting one 'legitimately' could be tricky though. You could try doing a run during the event and using one that dropped for you, or perhaps buy one at fair market value.
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Getting through the funnel area at the top of Lornar's Pass is conveniently the toughest part of the run. Dreadnought's Drift can be tricky with the clumping spawns, especially when they're right there when you enter, but I don't recall dying there much. Snake Dance is just long and an exercise in tolerating the Tundra Giants. Talus Chute can be cruised through too barring a somewhat ugly patch of Avicara near a rez shrine, though you'll get the level 20 henchies from Camp Rankor so they can help if you need.
Age
Don't use the 55 for running use this instead.
http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Archive:Mo/W_Bold_Forge_Monk
http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Archive:Mo/W_Bold_Forge_Monk
Marty Silverblade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincento
I'd hate to have a run someone can only replicate with prior investment or during event only hours.
As I said, you could buy one. They're currently 10-12e per stack, which works out to a few hundred gold each. Not sure how reliably you'll find people selling them individually though. The only issue here imo is whether you consider the use of consumables cheating or not, which is entirely up to you. I personally would prefer to see them not used, but that may very well be a showstopper for warrior based droks runs.
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Droks runs were completable with all professions in the Prophecies days. I never ran one myself, and you never really saw many non-warrior runners, but apparently it was definitely possible. Again, technique counts for a lot.
No idea on how hard it is to run from Droks to Thunderhead Keep because I've never done it. You're going to need to fight through at least Ice Floe though given you won't be infused. I don't think there's a way through without aggroing any mursaat. Going through Icedome is a nightmare, so after getting to Droks I'd go back up through Snake Dance into Grenth's Footprint and fight your way through from the Deldrimor War Camp outpost. Will still be tough, but good play should make it possible.
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The Mo/W build has better heals but will take more damage due to having less armor. The monk has higher max energy and regeneration but I don't see it being put to use. It just seems like a weaker version of the warrior primary version.
Also, Sprint used to have 20 second recharge, so it's a little easier now.
As far as the last few missions go, if you're not packing interrupts your best bet for dealing with the big fire AoE's is probably just to tank it out. The warrior gets higher armor but the monk can pre-prot (though you could run prots on a warrior it's not traditionally a good idea). Prot Spirit + a smaller prot such as Shielding Hands makes the profession irrelevant anyway. I'd lean towards Warrior because even if you can't be effective in your primary role due to the level deficit you can still provide that frontline presence that can make life a lot easier.
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Droks runs were completable with all professions in the Prophecies days. I never ran one myself, and you never really saw many non-warrior runners, but apparently it was definitely possible. Again, technique counts for a lot.
No idea on how hard it is to run from Droks to Thunderhead Keep because I've never done it. You're going to need to fight through at least Ice Floe though given you won't be infused. I don't think there's a way through without aggroing any mursaat. Going through Icedome is a nightmare, so after getting to Droks I'd go back up through Snake Dance into Grenth's Footprint and fight your way through from the Deldrimor War Camp outpost. Will still be tough, but good play should make it possible.
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The Mo/W build has better heals but will take more damage due to having less armor. The monk has higher max energy and regeneration but I don't see it being put to use. It just seems like a weaker version of the warrior primary version.
Also, Sprint used to have 20 second recharge, so it's a little easier now.
As far as the last few missions go, if you're not packing interrupts your best bet for dealing with the big fire AoE's is probably just to tank it out. The warrior gets higher armor but the monk can pre-prot (though you could run prots on a warrior it's not traditionally a good idea). Prot Spirit + a smaller prot such as Shielding Hands makes the profession irrelevant anyway. I'd lean towards Warrior because even if you can't be effective in your primary role due to the level deficit you can still provide that frontline presence that can make life a lot easier.
Vincento
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
-Try fighting through Icedome instead of running.
-Doing the Icecaves of Sorrow mission to jump to the Iron Mines of Moladune outpost after completion (is this worth the time the mission takes?)
-Going back from Droknar's forge through Snake Dance to the Deldrimor War Camp route as you suggested
-Skip going down to Droknar's Forge and go straight through Greth's Footprint via Deldrimor War Camp Outpost.
Pros and cons to all methods I guess, but I think it's fastest to grab the Deldrimor War Camp outpost on the way down regardless, even if I decide to go all the way to Droknar's, just so I can map travel back- surely this is faster than just running back through Snake Dance.
As for skipping Droknar's and going through Grenth's footprint, am I really at any disadvantage? The only thing I miss out on really are a any skills I might want to buy which I can get after Thunderhead Keep and maxed armor (compared to second best armor [71AR vs 80AR], I think it's not worth how much it'll cost- I wont have much money anyway). It certainly seems like a waste of time if Icedome is so difficult. Thoughts on this?
Doing the Icecaves mission is most likely going to be the slowest of the above seeing as the wiki says its length is 'Medium'- I'm guessing 25-30min?
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Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
As far as the last few missions go, if you're not packing interrupts your best bet for dealing with the big fire AoE's is probably just to tank it out.
I should have plenty of money to buy any skills I might need from Ember Light Camp, as well as a signet of capture for any elite skills I can find in the Southern Shiverpeaks (any en route or close-by bosses [I'll have one, or even two if I finish the quest, from Lion's Arch], or the Ring of Fire areas. This means I could purchase interrupts, they sound like they are probably the most useful skill for a dead-weight character like I will be. Any skill suggestions for these missions is welcome
Elites of choice? Charge probably isn't too useful by that stage as it'll be mostly fighting and not much running.
I could pick up Defy Pain in Frozen forest, that'd be before reaching Ice Floe (where there are Mursaat).
Shield of Judgement will be inaccessible and is too energy intensive anyway for a W/Mo.
Would Spell Breaker be useful? You can get it in Snake Dance which is early on. Would stop slowing spells, etc. But it's only 5 seconds and cant be improved because it's Divine Favor- probably not worth it. I don't think it stops skills like Spectral Agony from mursaat does it?
Dwarven Battle Stance seems like it could be really decent for the last few missions with the constant interrupt.
I think Dwarven Battle Stance and Defy Pain are the best contenders unless you have any other suggestions. I could always pick up one, get another signet of capture and get another one for later if more than one are of use for different missions, etc.
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I've read about infusion on the wiki, but I'm not entirely sure how it works. Something about killing an Eidolon or Ice beast? Do they always drop this item or is it chance based? Is it worth infusing? Spectral agony seems ridiculously strong, a potential run-ender. Where's the best place and how do I go about doing it exactly? The Mineral Springs area is a fairly large detour from the direct route so I'm not sure if this is worth doing it there. Again, I've no experience with infusion or Mursaat (hopefully next week I will have), so any advice here is also welcome.
Elites of choice? Charge probably isn't too useful by that stage as it'll be mostly fighting and not much running.
I could pick up Defy Pain in Frozen forest, that'd be before reaching Ice Floe (where there are Mursaat).
Shield of Judgement will be inaccessible and is too energy intensive anyway for a W/Mo.
Would Spell Breaker be useful? You can get it in Snake Dance which is early on. Would stop slowing spells, etc. But it's only 5 seconds and cant be improved because it's Divine Favor- probably not worth it. I don't think it stops skills like Spectral Agony from mursaat does it?
Dwarven Battle Stance seems like it could be really decent for the last few missions with the constant interrupt.
I think Dwarven Battle Stance and Defy Pain are the best contenders unless you have any other suggestions. I could always pick up one, get another signet of capture and get another one for later if more than one are of use for different missions, etc.
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I've read about infusion on the wiki, but I'm not entirely sure how it works. Something about killing an Eidolon or Ice beast? Do they always drop this item or is it chance based? Is it worth infusing? Spectral agony seems ridiculously strong, a potential run-ender. Where's the best place and how do I go about doing it exactly? The Mineral Springs area is a fairly large detour from the direct route so I'm not sure if this is worth doing it there. Again, I've no experience with infusion or Mursaat (hopefully next week I will have), so any advice here is also welcome.
cosyfiep
Infusion: its worth it if you are not using heroes, henchmen are not infused. It drops the amount of damage from 30 to 3 per piece of armor (or 81 to 9) so if you are going to go up against the Mursaat, yes it is worth it to get at least one set of armor infused.
Yes the Eidolon will always drop the spiritual essence when killed.
As for where...mineral springs is not a mission so if you die you wont have to redo it, iron mines is a mission so there is a chance if you die that you would have to do the whole thing over again (used to be very popular run for folks in this mission--and not too hard to run to the seer).
Yes the Eidolon will always drop the spiritual essence when killed.
As for where...mineral springs is not a mission so if you die you wont have to redo it, iron mines is a mission so there is a chance if you die that you would have to do the whole thing over again (used to be very popular run for folks in this mission--and not too hard to run to the seer).
Marty Silverblade
When I said getting through Icedome was a nightmare I meant via fighting. The idea that you would run through is a complete non starter.
I recommend getting to Droks first (or at least Camp Rankor) because Grenth's Footprint has different foes and not a lot of room to move so you don't want to waste a run by failing to reach the outpost and having to restart from Beacon's Perch. Best option on this route may be to reach Camp Rankor, flag the henchies at the start of the zone, running up, and then fighting through Grenth's Footprint.
Completing Ice Caves is an option worth considering. I've always found it time consuming with needing to run back and forth with explosives but given you can skip the bonus it might work out to be faster than the above. I'd say it is if it's no more than half an hour.
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I agree that DBS and Defy Pain are the best options. Again, DP isn't the kind of thing you'd typically run on a warrior, but this isn't a typical run. As it turns out, you can grab it early in Lornar's Pass. With some clever tricks you may be able to get some decent use out of it in a potential Droks run. (Spectral Agony isn't a spell so Spell Breaker won't matter.)
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I was deliberately vague regarding infusion because it's easy to understand if you just play through the game. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but personal experience trumps wiki reading. The point of mursaat is that you're not meant to be able to survive them until you become infused. Mursaat will be your primary foes through Thunderhead Keep and the next two missions after that (though not the last) so doing Iron Mines might eventually work out to be a better option than bypassing the mission and continually having to manage it. Being a warrior means you can't hide in the backline, so you'll need to ensure you've got Prot Spirit on you all the time (and even then you'll be eating a lot of damage). I don't think they have any enchant removals though, which helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosyfiep
I recommend getting to Droks first (or at least Camp Rankor) because Grenth's Footprint has different foes and not a lot of room to move so you don't want to waste a run by failing to reach the outpost and having to restart from Beacon's Perch. Best option on this route may be to reach Camp Rankor, flag the henchies at the start of the zone, running up, and then fighting through Grenth's Footprint.
Completing Ice Caves is an option worth considering. I've always found it time consuming with needing to run back and forth with explosives but given you can skip the bonus it might work out to be faster than the above. I'd say it is if it's no more than half an hour.
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I agree that DBS and Defy Pain are the best options. Again, DP isn't the kind of thing you'd typically run on a warrior, but this isn't a typical run. As it turns out, you can grab it early in Lornar's Pass. With some clever tricks you may be able to get some decent use out of it in a potential Droks run. (Spectral Agony isn't a spell so Spell Breaker won't matter.)
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I was deliberately vague regarding infusion because it's easy to understand if you just play through the game. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but personal experience trumps wiki reading. The point of mursaat is that you're not meant to be able to survive them until you become infused. Mursaat will be your primary foes through Thunderhead Keep and the next two missions after that (though not the last) so doing Iron Mines might eventually work out to be a better option than bypassing the mission and continually having to manage it. Being a warrior means you can't hide in the backline, so you'll need to ensure you've got Prot Spirit on you all the time (and even then you'll be eating a lot of damage). I don't think they have any enchant removals though, which helps.
Quote:
its worth it if you are not using heroes, henchmen are not infused.
Henchmen post-Iron Mines are infused.
Vincento
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosyfiep
Henchmen are infused except in the following situations that might involve Mursaat or Jade constructs:During Ice Caves of Sorrow. During the Iron Mines of Moladune, they are not infused until you bring the Spectral Essence to the Seer. In the Frozen Forest and Ice Floe, unless you brought them from Marhan's Grotto or Thunderhead Keep.
I take it then that means once I'm past Ice Floe that I'll be fine with missions as they will be infused. It will only be up until that point they are not infused. Which then means the only real perk is that I won't be infused. There will be chances in Ring of Fire and Abbadon's Mouth missions to get infused right?
Marty Silverblade
You can get infused during Ring of Fire if you complete the bonus, which actually can be quicker than not doing it. It involves taking a short but hard route vs. long but easy, though that's not necessarily the case anymore. There long route contains a bunch of spiders with the now much more potent Incendiary Arrows, which are not pleasant. If you're capable of getting through Ice Floe and Thunderhead Keep without infusion there isn't much reason to bother with Iron Mines.
Vincento
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
Best option on this route may be to reach Camp Rankor, flag the henchies at the start of the zone, running up, and then fighting through Grenth's Footprint.
This sounds like a good compromise.Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
Completing Ice Caves is an option worth considering. I've always found it time consuming with needing to run back and forth with explosives but given you can skip the bonus it might work out to be faster than the above. I'd say it is if it's no more than half an hour.
If it's half an hour, unless it's a lot easier than running around the other way, I think I'll probably avoid this. I'll still give it a go in practice and time the difference and compare the consistency.Quote:
but at least I'm improving and know what to expect now. 
