i, for one, as an honorable trader am absolutly sick and tired of people posting ridiculous claims in the buy/sell forum, just to get a rise out of people and see how far they will go in a bid for some item they wish they owned.
what i propose is the following;
for anyone claiming to sell an item with a substancial pricetag, but refuses to substanciate the item in-game, and is quite obviously a hoax, i suggest these people permenantly lose their priviledges to the buy/sell forum. i think it's a highly approriate sentence, as when people like myself and other players put down a large sum of gold or ecto or whatnot, it limits what you can/cant do with that money.
ie, if you see a really great item in-game that you've wanted for months you may not be able to afford it because you'll be thinking to yourself "well, i placed a bid of 500 ecto...and if i get this, i wont be able to afford the other item..." and in that way it inhibits your activities in-game.
and i am quite frankly dissapointed that GWG has not already taken action against people who put up fake items for real bids; deceiving the seller into pledge millions into an item they will never recieve nor see. it ruins the integrity of the buy/sell forums, and it ruins the integrity of GWG.
if you are a buyer and you post that you want the buyout for an item, and you neglect to pay, you will have consequences to suffer, its about time the sellers have some restrictions. a hidden reserve is one thing, but a hidden item is a different story.
all i ask is that a simple rule be added;
when selling an item, any item, the seller must be willing&able to substanciate the items existence in-game.
-Akh.
Proposal to reprimand hoaxes.
Akhilleus
Inde
Akhilleus,
It is frustrating. I understand that, but there is no way for me to restrict someone's usage to the sell forums and not the rest of the forums. That's why we implemented the auction system, so that those who want a legitimate way of trading can leave feedback for their transaction on the buyer and the seller. At least this way, other's can be aware of and be cautious against those that have a history of negative feedback.
We are taking steps in the auction system right now for ID verification and more, but this doesn't translate over to a forum environment. I can't personally verify each item's exisistance, nor can I look through every single thread. I can't ban someone for not wanting to show you their item in game, we do not ban or take action against anything that happens in game on this site. Why? Because even with all the screenshots in the world, it's still subjective to opinion and can be false. If it truly is a bannable offense then ArenaNet will take care of it, but I can't start "creating" rules for what is allowable in game.
Your best defense, and the communities best defense against this is to "Report Bad Post". The exclamation point icon listed in people's profiles to the left-hand side. A moderator can then take a look at it and a decision can be made from there. But we are all busy and it is just not feasible to have someone standing by and waiting to jump in game and contact these sellers to verify there is an item, that it exists, etc. If someone won't show you their item in game, I truly can't do anything about it.
It is frustrating. I understand that, but there is no way for me to restrict someone's usage to the sell forums and not the rest of the forums. That's why we implemented the auction system, so that those who want a legitimate way of trading can leave feedback for their transaction on the buyer and the seller. At least this way, other's can be aware of and be cautious against those that have a history of negative feedback.
We are taking steps in the auction system right now for ID verification and more, but this doesn't translate over to a forum environment. I can't personally verify each item's exisistance, nor can I look through every single thread. I can't ban someone for not wanting to show you their item in game, we do not ban or take action against anything that happens in game on this site. Why? Because even with all the screenshots in the world, it's still subjective to opinion and can be false. If it truly is a bannable offense then ArenaNet will take care of it, but I can't start "creating" rules for what is allowable in game.
Your best defense, and the communities best defense against this is to "Report Bad Post". The exclamation point icon listed in people's profiles to the left-hand side. A moderator can then take a look at it and a decision can be made from there. But we are all busy and it is just not feasible to have someone standing by and waiting to jump in game and contact these sellers to verify there is an item, that it exists, etc. If someone won't show you their item in game, I truly can't do anything about it.
Akhilleus
you guys couldnt set a special rank aside for people who have shot their own reputation to pieces?
but, threads like this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...817#post865817
where im offering 800 ecto in-game (his supposed asking price) and they still will not show the item, are far too common on guru, and 99% of the time it's obviously a hoax.
but if someones willing to show the item, there should be no issue, since if anyone had doubt as to its existence, they'd merely have to ask. and after 2-3 reputable players substanciate it, it becomes disqualified as a hoax.
oh, and thank you for the response, at least we know people are aware of the issue.
but, threads like this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...817#post865817
where im offering 800 ecto in-game (his supposed asking price) and they still will not show the item, are far too common on guru, and 99% of the time it's obviously a hoax.
but if someones willing to show the item, there should be no issue, since if anyone had doubt as to its existence, they'd merely have to ask. and after 2-3 reputable players substanciate it, it becomes disqualified as a hoax.
oh, and thank you for the response, at least we know people are aware of the issue.
Dralspire
I agree with Akh that fraudulent offers (regardless of whether they are intended as a joke or are placed in mean spirit) pose a problem for honest players. Unfortunately there are numerous reasons why the moderators of this forum might be unable to verify the existence of a particular item, e. g. the seller might simply not be available, be busy in a mission, be exploring UW/FoW, or be enjoying PvP.
It is for that reason that the busy bees of Guildwarsguru have set up the auction system at www.guildwarsguru.com/auction. This auction system enables you to review prior feedback to gain an idea about the trustworthiness of a trading partner and leave honest feedback for your trading partners in order to share your experiences.
From an administrative viewpoint, the auction system enables us to reprimand “bad apples” that disrupt the trading activities by placing false bids or offering funky imaginary items by sending them packing. So they just go and set up a new account, right? Well, not so fast, we are working on putting an end to that as well.
What it really boils down to is this ... use the auction system and enjoy the existing and future features that kick liars where it hurts the most, in their gold box.
It is for that reason that the busy bees of Guildwarsguru have set up the auction system at www.guildwarsguru.com/auction. This auction system enables you to review prior feedback to gain an idea about the trustworthiness of a trading partner and leave honest feedback for your trading partners in order to share your experiences.
From an administrative viewpoint, the auction system enables us to reprimand “bad apples” that disrupt the trading activities by placing false bids or offering funky imaginary items by sending them packing. So they just go and set up a new account, right? Well, not so fast, we are working on putting an end to that as well.
What it really boils down to is this ... use the auction system and enjoy the existing and future features that kick liars where it hurts the most, in their gold box.
Akhilleus
is there any possible way to institute the old trader-rank system for high-end?
because this problem is limited mostly to high-end or regular sell.
i see where you guys are coming from, logistically its a pain in the ass to justfy an items existence, but i dont think any item that has ever actually existed has ever had a problem proving so.
because this problem is limited mostly to high-end or regular sell.
i see where you guys are coming from, logistically its a pain in the ass to justfy an items existence, but i dont think any item that has ever actually existed has ever had a problem proving so.
Inde
Akhilleus,
Setting aside a rank is a good idea, except for one thing. Over 80% of the moderating that happens on this site is in the Sell Forums right now. I can not justify adding even more moderating time spent to assign or change people's ranks or designate them with a special title.
I do understand the issues, but again... if someone does not want to show you their item in game I can not control or take action against them here on these forums. I'm not responsible or accountable for anyone's in game actions.
Use the Report Bad Post button, we will look into these and obviously... if it's clearly a fake we'll know about it and take action against it. Good discussion though, I appreciate you bringing the issue up. I did not know it was becoming a problem. Sure you will always have the occassional fake item, but I will look into it more. This is not a standstill issue, I want to take action on it I just don't see any easy solution as it stands.
Setting aside a rank is a good idea, except for one thing. Over 80% of the moderating that happens on this site is in the Sell Forums right now. I can not justify adding even more moderating time spent to assign or change people's ranks or designate them with a special title.
I do understand the issues, but again... if someone does not want to show you their item in game I can not control or take action against them here on these forums. I'm not responsible or accountable for anyone's in game actions.
Use the Report Bad Post button, we will look into these and obviously... if it's clearly a fake we'll know about it and take action against it. Good discussion though, I appreciate you bringing the issue up. I did not know it was becoming a problem. Sure you will always have the occassional fake item, but I will look into it more. This is not a standstill issue, I want to take action on it I just don't see any easy solution as it stands.
Loviatar
Akhilleus
not a flame but simply something to think about.
GWG is providing a place (FREE) where people can buy/sell outside the game until Anet brings in the auction house/trading system.
it is a convenience not a necessity and from the unbalanced amount of time/work it involves might be better simply removed.
Quote:
Over 80% of the moderating that happens on this site is in the Sell Forums right now.
GWG should be thanked for the work done and not ask even more from them. not a flame but simply something to think about.GWG is providing a place (FREE) where people can buy/sell outside the game until Anet brings in the auction house/trading system.
it is a convenience not a necessity and from the unbalanced amount of time/work it involves might be better simply removed.
Quote:
just my opinion
Raptox
I don't mean to stir anything really irritating up, but I have a simple question that might get really complicated:
You've got the Auction site now, and it's great. Why do you still need the Buy and Sell forums?
Keep the PC forum, of course.
You've got the Auction site now, and it's great. Why do you still need the Buy and Sell forums?
Keep the PC forum, of course.
Inde
Raptox,
A lot have asked that, including staff. People have a comfort zone, the Sell Forums is definitely a comfort zone for some people who do not want to bother with learning a new system.
We are planning future upgrades to the auction system to make it more valuable but the Sell Forum still does serve a purpose to the community. Right now if someone wants to list a good number of items they have to do that individually in the auction system. Where on the forums they can put them all in a single screenshot and tell people to bid on them.
Some don't want to "have" to sell their item by listing it. The auction system naturally requires that if your item sells (and all reserves are met, etc.) then you are obligated to complete the transaction. The Sell Forums allows for more free-form trade.
While I would encourage people to move over to the auction system (I have had many comment that their items get more exposure, transactions are smoother and people bid higher)... others see the Sell Forums as something that works for them.
A lot have asked that, including staff. People have a comfort zone, the Sell Forums is definitely a comfort zone for some people who do not want to bother with learning a new system.
We are planning future upgrades to the auction system to make it more valuable but the Sell Forum still does serve a purpose to the community. Right now if someone wants to list a good number of items they have to do that individually in the auction system. Where on the forums they can put them all in a single screenshot and tell people to bid on them.
Some don't want to "have" to sell their item by listing it. The auction system naturally requires that if your item sells (and all reserves are met, etc.) then you are obligated to complete the transaction. The Sell Forums allows for more free-form trade.
While I would encourage people to move over to the auction system (I have had many comment that their items get more exposure, transactions are smoother and people bid higher)... others see the Sell Forums as something that works for them.
Akhilleus
i completly agree.
GWG sell forums and auction house are a free service, and they've done a pretty fantastic job putting it together, which is precicely why i wrote the proposal.
people who sign up just so they can post items they never have owned, dont own, and never will own, just to waste other peoples time is counterproductive to the time, effort and integrity involved with the forums.
as to why the high-end forums are still used, while the auction house is great for selling medium level items and greens, if you have not noticed, the vast majority of the stuff there does not run with a very high pricetag.
why this is is beyond me.
GWG sell forums and auction house are a free service, and they've done a pretty fantastic job putting it together, which is precicely why i wrote the proposal.
people who sign up just so they can post items they never have owned, dont own, and never will own, just to waste other peoples time is counterproductive to the time, effort and integrity involved with the forums.
as to why the high-end forums are still used, while the auction house is great for selling medium level items and greens, if you have not noticed, the vast majority of the stuff there does not run with a very high pricetag.
why this is is beyond me.
Racthoh
At the very least what I think us moderators should try to do is contact the person in game informing them of who we are, and that we would like to receive confirmation that the item does in fact exist. If they fail to show us the item, prehaps we could close down the thread until the confirmation has been received by a moderator. In a way, posting a fake item is in no way different than a scam which isn't tolerated.
On that note, Akhilleus I have added that particular person in question to my FL in hopes to receive confirmation on that item.
On that note, Akhilleus I have added that particular person in question to my FL in hopes to receive confirmation on that item.