DW Healer template, before anyone begins saying it's crap :)

(First, my apologies if this isn't the proper forum according to the moderators - I felt that considering it was related to the latest game update, it had a place here, but please feel free to move it to the builds forum, or another one, if deemed necessary)

I'm responsible for the DW Healer template and a few skeptics seem not to understand the point, and ArenaNet's summary of our explanations could have been better, so I'll just quickly explain it here. For ones who don't know, the build is the following:

Now, there are three obvious complaints with this build: 1) Smite Hex without Smiting and a huge recharge time. 2) Two ressurection spells. 3) No glyph of lesser energy for Healing Seed.
The reason for this is that a good 80% of the players using premades, afaik, use them for arenas. And in 4v4 arenas, this build can work very very nicely. Most teams won't spam hexes too much, so the 1s cast time instead of 2s on Remove Hex helps, and much of the time you're the only (competent) ressurecter so that means being able to switch between 4s and 8s ressurection is quite important imo.
Now, if anyone uses this unmodified build for tombs or GvG, he needs a reality check, and I regret this wasn't mentionned in the description of the build by ArenaNet; we didn't exactly insist on it either, so it's more our fault there really.

This is my current monk build:
Roughly similar builds - often with another ressurection spell or none at all (may I suggest Divine Intervention if you don't need ressurection? It does miracles if used properly) are used by all non-protection DW monks with excellent success.
Now, another thing we kinda did on purpose with this premade is that all the skills you'd need to make it a Tombs or GvG build are ridiculously easy to buy - I believe most of them can be bought at Ascalon City (Glyph of Lesser Energy, Ressurect) but I'm not sure about Remove Hex; it might be at Yak's Bend, or perhaps at Ascalon too, I can't seem to remember. I seriously wouldn't consider playing a monk without mend ailment at this point (I'd go as far as to say it's one of the best non-elite skills in the game).
What might also be less obvious is that this is a spam build - that means it's an awful lot easier to use if you got your skill keys on buttons, and you don't activate them with the mouse (I'm quite luckly to be left-handed personally, since that means I can use my right hand for the numpad) - if used "defensively" (always trying to get the full benefit of WoH for example), you'll most likely never run out of energy.
And as a closing note, I'd just like to make you notice that WoH, when healing prayers is over 12, heals more than Orison even when the target is above 50% HP. Still, that doesn't mean you shouldn't also use Orison on others (it's a spam build!), which I believe ArenaNet incorrectly summarized in their posted description.

Hopefully this will clear any confusion regarding this build, and once again my apologies if this wasn't the right forum to do so. If anything, I perhaps regret our warrior build wasn't taken instead (hammer/smiting), as it's quite damn good unmodified for both tombs and arenas (significantly better than any of the premades by a good order of the magnitude) - ah well, that'll teach us to only polish one of the 3 builds we submitted


Uttar (AKA Wang Ping of the Dynasty Warriors)

You had a chance to submit an actual decent build that could be used for tombs and you made an arena build?

Especially considering the monk builds that were already there were pretty solid. The lack of any real decent damager is pretty sad imho. I really wish they'd remove the paladin, that kind of build has no place in PvP at all other than having 60 minute n00b fights that put off new players.

Healing touch instead of Signet of Devotion makes this build very vulnerable to mesmer focus (backfire). I dont mind WoH, orison, seed, ailment or smite hex, but healing touch, vengeance and restore life was a very bad decission, even for arena matches (in which I agree with the above poster that making a template just for arena was a bad decission). Including only restore life or resurrect for res'ing would make the build usable for both tombs and arena, or disregarding res's all together (provided the new w/mo has res on it). What I really dislike about this build, and what I dislike about most of the monks we see out there is the lack of creativity involved in the build. You're limiting your efficiency greatly when sticking to only your main proffession. You could have gone DF 10, Healing 11, and something like tactics, earth or inspiration, depending on if you want to include something like Bonetti's Defense/Watch Yourself, Ward against foes/elements/melee, or channeling/inspired hex. It would have been very interesting to see a Mo/W with watch yourself and 9 tactics for a shield (rest into protection), but it seems you decided on a non-interesting template.

Too bad about 70% of the people that demand war/mos don't think that.

Thanks for the explanation, Uttar.

I liked the fact that you made the build easily tweakable to an 8on8 build using common skills. Its like two templates in one.

As all other guilds, we submitted 3 builds, and ArenaNet had to choose which they wanted in. We decided to submit one mesmer, one monk and one warrior. We took most of our time polishing the warrior build, the monk one was just a "fun" one for arenas in our opinion. Our warrior build would have been a great replacement for the paladin I believe, but it was up to ArenaNet to choose the build, and not us. Had it only been up to us, yes, we'd have asked them to simply include that one instead.
As for Healing Touch VS Signet of Devotion... Did you even ever play a monk competitively? Signet of Devotion is godawful. It has a 2s cast time for barely acceptable healing. Sure, it's nice if you got backfire on you - but if you got even just one decent warrior on your back, you'll most likely lost more health than that since you can't run at the same time (and he might even knock you down, stopping the signet - good luck doing that on Healing Touch). Proper usage of running, healing touch and orison can keep you alive against a LOT of enemies if you know what you're doing.
As for using skills in other professions, once again I wonder if you ever played monks competitively. What I do, and most other "competitive" monks do, is just look at what's around us and at the HP bars on the party menu. 95% of my time is spent watching those HP bars. If I had to look at enemies to target too, I'd lose efficiency. This is the most basic thing you need to understand if you want to have a competitive edge as a monk, and sadly too many fail to understand it.
What I do think is quite nice, however, is spells like Offering of Blood or Armor of Earth. Both will give you a nice advantage, but according to my calculations, it's really not sufficiently significant to bother with. The most original builds aren't the best ones, and sadly the best healing monk builds are also the least original. I've experimented a lot with this, so please don't think I'm just talking out of my ass.
Bonneti's Defence is nice for non-spam builds, but imo the best healing builds will always be a spam one. For protection monks, however, I admit it can be quite nice, and so can a few other similar skills. But then again, protection monks got a few totally uber combos based on permanent enchantments - not going to get into them here, though.
Once again, if you believe it isn't the monk build that had to be replaced, please blame ArenaNet and not us. We didn't even know which of our builds was accepted before it got in the game. I would still like to thank ArenaNet for this opportunity, though.
And thanks Zubey

Uttar

I kinda wish Arenanet would simply add new ones as they have, without removing/retiring the old ones. More options are always nice, and people who don't camp boards rely on those templates, assuming that they 'work'. I would love to see at least one of every combination represented, if not more.

Ah, this is a very good explaination then and I could see it work in this situation. I was begining to think this was a joke-build or something.

For those saying "why no tombs but arena?" Well people play arena, and having diverse builds for different pvp styles is always welcomed I think.

I am currently doing a Pure Mage build (E/Mo) in which casts elements and healing powrers. Currently it looks like this

Any suggestions on what skills for this character if I can get them? (Currently at Yak's Gate through Progression)

Personally, I think I'd rather have seen the Mesmer build. We've now got 3 Monk builds to a single Mesmer build. And that Mesmer build is the Sword Slasher. We can't get a shut down non-melee Mesmer at all? And of the 3 Monk builds we've got 2 healers and a Protection Monk. No Smite Mon at all? Honestly, the premade selection is seriously lacking...

As for the build, it's not bad. A bit clunky perhaps but it's important to keep in mind that premades ar not well-suited to any given task, they're generalist that can be easily built on by a large number of people. You can trick out and customize your premade instead of using it as is, it's just a shortcut to unlocking everything. You can customize a premade with skills just as you can with a full custom build.

Two rezzes is a bit of overkil, especially on a primary Monk. The Monk's the most likely character to get dropped in PvP, not the character most likely to remain standing in order to revive everyone else. And switching to rez duty means that you're not pumping out healing. I'd say get rid of both rezzes altogether and maybe take Rezsig if you're planning on playing in the Arena and can't count on anyone else being smart enough to bring a rez. Healing Seed's a nice skill but it's too energy intensive for a spam build with little to no energy management. You can't argue with a core of Word, Orison, and Touch, though. And I actually like Smite Hex because of the casting speed, as has been mentioned. This character isn't going to be the main hex remover but Smite's there for when you really need something gone in a hurry.

Would I rather see a more innovative or exceptional build? Using Glyph of Sacrifice with a rez for quick revival? An anti-hex/condition Monk? A Mon/Ran with rituals? A smiter build? Sure. But it sounds like you tried to get such things in there and ANet wouldn't play along with you and went for the "safe" option. Wouldn't be the first time. So, what we're left with is something servicable, an easily tweaked work horse, and that's about what I'd hope for from premades. I think the real issue is whether or not we need the DW Healer and the Fi Mo/Nec on the same premade list given that there seems to be a cap of 12 builds at any one given time to represent all 30 potential profession combinations and the various roles and tasks that players can fill in a team (Or, as I like to call it, the "Do we really need two Nec/Mes?" problem). And I wouldn't put that issue at the feet of Uttar but at the feet of those selecting the premades in the first place.

First off, monk is my specialty. Secondly, competetive matches is all I do, and you would know if you weren't too busy talking out of your ass to realize what guild I'm in. Thirdly, care to GvG?

Now, for Healing Touch vs. Divine Intervention, it was a suggestion. Ofcourse the result isn't critical, but seeing as you already have orison in there, that's basically all the self healing you need, since in real competition (competition far beyond DW's dreams) monks rely on other monks' healing to survive and not themself. Monks have far better "other ally" support than anything else, and a good team makes use of that. Healing touch is a heal devoted to almost only yourself, and I guess it's fine if you have horrible team coordination, which after thinking about it doesn't surprise me coming from DW. That made me laugh, as it proves what I just said about DW.This is what really made me wonder if you ever played monks competitively yourself. None of the skills I mentioned above requires a monk to target their enemies. I have no clue where you got that from, and I find it very funny how ignorant you are when considering these skills. Offering of Blood is a waste of a very needed elite for a healer, unless you're running heavy energy skills, but even with heavy energy skills, offering of blood alone doesn't cut it. Armor of Earth is fairly decent, but doesn't really give you the supporting edge something like watch yourself, channeling or wards do. BTW, may I see these so called "calculations" you made?

Shinsei, I'll have to say, is one of the better Monk players I've seen (At least when he's not sleep deprived after trying to squeeze every last hour of playtime out of a BWE). And even though he was never admitted into the test has probably seen more top flight competition and engaged in more strategic discussion than all but a few testers. He knows of what he speaks.

That said, Shin you need to watch your tone. Arrogance does not become you and neither does condescention. All being a braggart - and a poor one at that - proves is that you think you're good. Keep it in your pants and off our boards, thank you very much.

Let's not bicker here. The build is one that could be improved, I think we can all agree upon that, and that's not necessarily a fault or something wrong with the designer. We're here to learn and teach each other not to insult and belittle each other. DW earned the right to submit that build and they gave it their best shot. They might have done better, sure, but build design is not an easy thing. We can talk about how it could have been done better or could be done better by others without insulting the hard work and enthusiasm shown by Uttar and his guild.

Hi,
i was wondering if you could tell us more about the two other templates u offered to Arena.net which werent taken (the paladin and the Mesmer).
If you got some time to share 'em... Would be very nice

Just to hop onto the bandwagon.. like Shin said, wanding a called target is VERY different from actually target calling. I can find t and press space even if I'm comatose that particular day and not take my eyes off the health bars the entire time. And before anyone yells at me, no, I am not advocating 100% health bar tunnel vision.

Like Saus said, let's be nice here.