Thinking back to when I first got interested in Guildwars, "A grind free skill based competitive team role playing game". The game was marketed to everyone, as quests with things mmorpgs can't do, competitive player vrs player environments, and most importantly, Fun not item hunting.
Skill was to be rewarded not timespent, Arenanet had a new champion in Online gaming.
It is sad to see the game become nothing more then another grinding mmorpg.
Now I know a lot of you say this ins't true, but it is. Unfortunately to be competitive in PvP you are required to grind 100's of hours. Exactly the opposite of every advertisement of Guildwars.
The new patches seem to be making it worse and the general idea is Arena.net does not really care. They made a game, they are selling it.
The problem is they lied in a lot of advertising, and in how the squeezed this grind into the last few weeks is very bad.
Anyway this thread is just a general discussion on the topic that guildwars is item based, grind based, and is not a shadow of what it once was.
Guilds spend 97% of the time Grinding away on this stupid game, and it's getting really ridiculous.
Arena.Net, Will you uphold the promises you make? Or will a game I used to Love, Guildwars, be tarnished and called Grindwars by everyone in the gaming community?
[Civilized[ Arena.net has destroyed Guildwars
BE|Dac
JediNeophyte
You can grind, yes, but I fail to see how this gives the grinder an insurmountable advantage in PvP. I do not grind (ever), and I do fine in PvP. Hell, I dominate, with off-the-shelf PvP characters.
Kordesh
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
Now I know a lot of you say this ins't true, but it is. Unfortunately to be competitive in PvP you are required to grind 100's of hours. Exactly the opposite of every advertisement of Guildwars.
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Also note, this is starting from scratch with a PvE character. Techincally you can be competative in PvP the second you login by creating a PvP character with a template.
BE|Dac
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Originally Posted by JediNeophyte
You can grind, yes, but I fail to see how this gives the grinder an insurmountable advantage in PvP. I do not grind (ever), and I do fine in PvP. Hell, I dominate, with off-the-shelf PvP characters.
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+damage etc with unlockables
ability to actually make your own build (400% advantage)
+1 to all skills
+2 to any skill with minimal health drawback
+3 to any skill with mediocre health drawback
It gives a big enough advantage for anyone knowledgeable to notice.
BE|Dac
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Originally Posted by Kordesh
Please explain yourself, because you have alot of explaining to do. I ascended and have the best armor *stat wise* atm and am completely competative in PvP, and it took me a grand total of maybe 4-5days playtime. Well below 100hrs. Even further below 100's of hours. Please back up your statement, because of course we're going to say it isn't true when we have every reason in the world to believe otherwise.
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Because out there is someone who grinded away, who does, and he will beat your ass based on timespent.
Quarantine
wow, this game made it a whole 2 weeks without the 'company X is out to get me with false advertising since i cant pwn everybody' whiners
Kordesh
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
+50 health
+damage etc with unlockables ability to actually make your own build (400% advantage) +1 to all skills +2 to any skill with minimal health drawback +3 to any skill with mediocre health drawback It gives a big enough advantage for anyone knowledgeable to notice. |
Mountain Man
People keep complaining about this. Do you have any examples where grinding and item farming has given any person or group a significant advantage? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just wondering what you have to substantiate your complaints.
As I understand it, you don't need to grind to be competitive, but old habits die hard it seems.
As I understand it, you don't need to grind to be competitive, but old habits die hard it seems.
Kordesh
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| That is one character, to really compete in PvP you need versatility and counters, you basically need every skill unlocked. |
And PS: I hope they have a full TEAM of people who grinded away with these supposed uber abilities, because when it comes down to it, it's team vs team, not 1v1.
JediNeophyte
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
+50 health
+damage etc with unlockables ability to actually make your own build (400% advantage) +1 to all skills +2 to any skill with minimal health drawback +3 to any skill with mediocre health drawback It gives a big enough advantage for anyone knowledgeable to notice. |
You, sir, are talking out of your ass.
BE|Dac
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man
People keep complaining about this. Do you have any examples where grinding and item farming has given any person or group a significant advantage? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just wondering what you have to substantiate your complaints.
As I understand it, you don't need to grind to be competitive, but old habits die hard it seems. |
I have held HoH, have 2230 fame and #7 on guild ladder, played in every BWE, highest spot held #3.
I have tested the game in alpha testing, I know what I am talking about.
Sorry but all the little boosts add up to a big one.
also
Unruned
attributes
12
12
3
Runed
12
12
11
or
16
13
3
That in itself is a big advantage.
around 25% more effective.
Typhoon
All the PvP templates get FREE weapons and equipment with the best base stats possible. Any item modifier that you unlock in RP play has UNLIMITED uses when creating a PvP template.
What are you complaining about?
What are you complaining about?
BE|Dac
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Originally Posted by JediNeophyte
I have several unlocked runes and weapon upgrades on each of my PvP chars, and a ton of unlocked Warrior and Monk skills. How did I get them without grinding you ask? By playing the game. All of these I have gotten during the course of normal gameplay. No grinding, no farming.
You, sir, are talking out of your ass. |
Whats you vigor at?
450 skills, how many have you unlocked?
BE|Dac
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Originally Posted by Typhoon
All the PvP templates get FREE weapons and equipment with the best base stats possible. Any item modifier that you unlock in RP play has UNLIMITED uses when creating a PvP template.
What are you complaining about? |
PvP is not about templates, its about costum team builds.
Runes allow you to do 25% more damage, steal 25% more energy.
They are worth it,
Also no premade comes close to the damage or healing my costums do.
Medijunk
This isn't a grind. If you want a real grind play Lineage 2. Then come back and talk about Guild Wars being a grind.
Kordesh
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Unruned attributes 12 12 3 Runed 12 12 11 or 16 13 3 That in itself is a big advantage. around 25% more effective. |
JediNeophyte
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
How many supperiors?
Whats you vigor at? 450 skills, how many have you unlocked? |
BE|Dac
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Originally Posted by Medijunk
This isn't a grind. If you want a real grind play Lineage 2. Then come back and talk about Guild Wars being a grind.
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Longest grind session is 48 hours.
He thinks the grind in guildwars sucks.
Kordesh
Ok, guys, I suggest we stop posting on this topic. This guy is obviously and blatantly BSing everyone. My suggestion, don't feed the trolls. I'm out of this. Most of us know better anyway.
Mountain Man
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
As you understand it, wait till you actually play pvp.
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Quote:
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I have held HoH, have 2230 fame and #7 on guild ladder, played in every BWE, highest spot held #3. I have tested the game in alpha testing, I know what I am talking about. |
BE|Dac
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Originally Posted by Kordesh
Ok now I know you're talking out of your ass because that's not possible. As I stated before, runes of the same type DO NOT STACK. You can use a rune for one attribute ONCE on your entire set of armor. Even then, using 3 superior runes would result in about -250hp. Have fun with that.
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A:10
B:11
C:10
Minor in A and B
11
12
10
Hat in A
12
12
10
major in C
12
12
12
vrs unruned
13
12
3
If you have a supperior vigor (aka farmed for it.
12
12
12
vrs
13
12
3
No drawbacks. No health loss.
BE|Dac
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man
I suppose it's a moot point because I have little interest in PvP.
That's all well and good, but I ask again: Do you have any examples where grinding and item farming has given any person or group a significant advantage? I'm not talking about numerical advantages, I'm talking about actual in-game advantage, such as a team of grinders dominating the PvP arena. |
we farmed out a build and unless other people have they will lose. We can beat any premade team.
Ramus
You are going to be flamed by others for your opinion, but im sure you knew that when you made the thread. People can not have a debate without degrading themselves to petty insults.
I somewhat agree and I somewhat do not. I agree that it was advertised as a completely different game, but it is still an ok game, and although some of it is grinding it is not all of it.
I somewhat agree and I somewhat do not. I agree that it was advertised as a completely different game, but it is still an ok game, and although some of it is grinding it is not all of it.
Kordesh
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I have held HoH, have 2230 fame and #7 on guild ladder, played in every BWE, highest spot held #3. I have tested the game in alpha testing, I know what I am talking about. |
You say you have done all of this, and I'm assuming played a PvE character and grinded your ass off to be all uber and such in PvP.
Lets look at the numbers.
This game has been out about what? Two weeks?
24*7=168 hours.
So even if you were playing 24 hours straight for 2 weeks, *you are even more pathetic than me at that point* it would be under 200 hours of playtime to get all the supposed grinding needed and enough time to be UBER LEET MAN in PvP
Math is your friend, and you sir, are full of shit.
Mountain Man
Great. Personal anecdotes. Not exactly the kind of proof I was looking for.
Marus Varrus
I beleive the essense of his beef is that ArenaNet did not give him access to every rune, every weapon enhancement available and every skill for every class including every elite skill unlocked the first moment he logged on.
BE|Dac
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man
Great. Personal anecdotes. Not exactly the kind of proof I was looking for.
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Stur
Not that I have any room to talk, but I think emotions really run high when it comes to how people think the game they love is turning into something they don’t like, but I also think coming in this highly read forum and making blanket statements that a lot of us just don’t think are true is hurting our game not helping it. If this subject means that much to you, e-mail the creators, let them know how you feel. I personally love the game as is, but I’m bias as is almost everyone that gets into the conversion.
As I said I’m not innocent here and I’ll take this chance to apologize for the flare of emotion I suffered this morning.
As I said I’m not innocent here and I’ll take this chance to apologize for the flare of emotion I suffered this morning.
BE|Dac
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marus Varrus
I beleive the essense of his beef is that ArenaNet did not give him access to every rune, every weapon enhancement available and every skill for every class including every elite skill unlocked the first moment he logged on.
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I went through with an open mind expecting to have fun, instead Anet Ninja stealthed a huge ammount of grind into the game, and is adding more.
Marus Varrus
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
Umm.. challenge us to gvg or get any guild that wants to disprove this, they can bring in premades.
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Mountain Man
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
= Blood Eagle
we farmed out a build and unless other people have they will lose. We can beat any premade team. |
Ramus
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
Actually, I have farmed a lot and realized that playing through the game is not enough. That I must farm like a monkey to get anything worthwhile. That the game is based on grind atm.
I went through with an open mind expecting to have fun, instead Anet Ninja stealthed a huge ammount of grind into the game, and is adding more. |
BE|Dac
btw I am now leaving this thread and will not respond, please discuss this if you want ill still read, but honestly just look at it from my perspective if possible.
Kordesh
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Originally Posted by Marus Varrus
If you dominate in PVP to the level at which you brag doesn't that prove you have mastered the PVP and "own " everyone in PVP. Does this not argue against the very point of your own post?
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Kordesh
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Originally Posted by Ramus
I agree with that, up to level 15 I had gotten not one purple or gold until I started grinding lightning drakes.
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JediNeophyte
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Originally Posted by Stur
Not that I have any room to talk, but I think emotions really run high when it comes to how people think the game they love is turning into something they don’t like, but I also think coming in this highly read forum and making blanket statements that a lot of us just don’t think are true is hurting our game not helping it. If this subject means that much to you, e-mail the creators, let them know how you feel. I personally love the game as is, but I’m bias as is almost everyone that gets into the conversion.
As I said I’m not innocent here and I’ll take this chance to apologize for the flare of emotion I suffered this morning. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
I went through with an open mind expecting to have fun, instead Anet Ninja stealthed a huge ammount of grind into the game, and is adding more.
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Mountain Man
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Originally Posted by BE|Dac
btw I am now leaving this thread and will not respond, please discuss this if you want ill still read, but honestly just look at it from my perspective if possible.
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Besides, even if your guild does dominate, it doesn't prove that your success is a direct result of grinding. You might simply be skillful players (perhaps because of hours of practice?).
sama
heh DAC...you're kinda preaching to the wrong crowd. most ppl never experieced high lvl pvp and wouldn't have the perspective to see that every little bit helps -- especially in even matched teams. i mean, most people consider arena to be competitive pvp...
anywayz, Alex Weekes, NC Soft rep, has already said they acknowledged there's a problem with pvp and they're working on it. let's give them some time and see what they come up with.
anywayz, Alex Weekes, NC Soft rep, has already said they acknowledged there's a problem with pvp and they're working on it. let's give them some time and see what they come up with.
Ramus
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man
Could you at least answer my question first?
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Marus Varrus
I believe much of the PVP angst comes from BETAs that throughout had access to every skill. Rightly or wrongly they took this to mean once live this would be the case. The fact is ANet allowed this access to playtest their skill sets as much as could be done in the avaiable enviroment i.e. the beta Events. Perhaps ANet should have been more forthcoming that this was a skills testbed of sorts and not how the retail model would operate.