how to test UNIDENTIFIED weapons for certain mods, without using an ID kit

how did he do that? if more people know this they wont buy unid weapons
plus since im almost r6 me=pwnsauce

all he had to have said, is what i said a while back;
"there is a method in which to determine a weapons stats before its identified"
problem solved.
but explaining how its done, merely enhances the ability of people to scam others, especially since the vast majority of GW players will still not know about this technique, even if its posted and spammed, new players and casual players will most likely not know.
and the majority of unid weapons are not bought from chinese farmers, they are bought from people who come back form a friendly fow run and find something they wanna make a quick 5k off of. and now those of them who read this can knowingly scam innocent players, and for the honest people who sell unids, they may be lobbed in with the group of dishonest people, and their items will be harder to sell.
anet already knows about this bug, as quite a few people have reported it, so all hes done is make matters worse.
Good work, bucko.

ya but not many people buy unid and the ones that do already know they going to probably get screwed over with what they buy.

personaly i dont think a ban is in order but i think this post should be deleted as it will only create more dishonest traders.

i do think this kind of testing should be nerfed

as for ppl wanting to know the scammers out there, PM me and i can give u a list of these

come on i think guild wars is full of honest people who wouldnt think twice of scamming someone

i edited my posts to remove the information that leads to the manner in which this is done.

Actually, I kind of agree with this. I never knew about it myself, I've used unidentified items in Pre before and watched them affect me, but it never clicked that I could use this to my advantage.

As soon as I seen this thread, I took all my money and did chest runs, had at least 50 unidentified items. Started doing what he said. Luckily I didn't find anything worthwhile. So, instead of selling them all and making more than what I spent back (I do have a conscience, nor am I a jerk), I ided them all and watched all the crap come in. A lot of +dmg vs monster mods, didn't get anything that would have made me money. I ended up having about 15k less than I did before.

But the thing was, because of this I could have gone out and sold all of those items and made a lot more than what I should have back.

This does need to be fixed. I don't buy unided items usually, but everytime I have they have been junk.

Its nice that you brought this out and all, because most people may not know it, but yes, you also added the possibility for more of this to happen by telling us how to do it. I seen that you removed it, which is why I am typing this. Thanks.

ANet does need to do something about this.

The point isnt id kits being expensive, it was testing the item to see is it has a crap mod or a good mod. good mod= id it and sell for more, crap mod= dont id and sell for 5k, about 4.5k more than its worth,

Seems to me that finding out if a weapon has a +15% mod is difficult since you could have a sundering grip and the criticals could stuff up your calculations, so i guess its is a calculated risk when u buy unid weapons like chaos axes, storm bows, longswords etc.

I'd like to propose an idea someone had earlier in this thread...

"Make it where the weapon mods dont go into effect until identified"

This aint my credit, check page 1 for the dudes name

people going nuts for fortitude weapons now.....

why...it makes no sense in reality...just so people can sell Unided weapons? If it's the buying end people want...just do it D2 style...make a merchant with random item mods you can't see till you buy it. It'd level this stupid gold economy some as well

I think that this should be made public, so ANet can see the outrage this has caused. If the OP had never posted this, I doubt ANet would even realise this is a problem. Perhaps this existance of this thread will result in more scamming, but I'd prefer having this fixed sooner rather than later (or never).

Unidentified item selling happens the buyer knows there is a chance it will be a trash item. They take that risk alone. I would suggest testing it after buying then decide to ID or try to sell again if you don't think it has what you need. Reporting ppl for leveling the playing field...not sure about that one.

PS:I have never bought or sold anything unidentified. Have at times let guild members ID items to have a chance for an unlock though.

Why doesn't it make sense - because if this was "reality" a 10/10 sundering sword would be that no matter if ID'd or not? Of course, since a 10/10 sundering sword (or most of the game) doesn't make sense in reality anyway I will assume not and that you have some really kick ass non-obvious reason you are ready to share.

It seems to me that the purpose of an ID kit is to get the magical effects of an item - it is in almost every game I know of. Plus since it allows this type of scam it should be changed.

Even were there not unlocks I assumed this was the case for a long time, given what unlocks mean to so many and what the ID gives with it I really thought that there would be no way to know the mods before ID'ing the thing. I was relativly surprised it was so and kinda figured many of the "un-id" items were scams at that point. I'm usually the last to know and found out in game (and since I play exclusivly henchies for me to find out something in game is rare).

Personally I wish there was a merchant that sold mods (even if they were traders and vary prices according to supply like runes - in fact this would be the way I would do it even though as an almost pure PvE player I would prefer fixed cost - traders *should* balance it for PvE going into PvP). And, just like them, no unlocks. Then increase faction once more by maybe 1.5x and you have my perfect game. As is I still know of any other game I have liked more and got it any more correct (though others have been equal), and my opinion is just that - opinion. But hey, I need to express it sometimes

(not necessarily refering to you)Yea, it's simple. I'm tired of stupid ass requests made just to satisfy people's greed that has no relation to anything else. It's like the lottery, of course the poor people are happy to have it but none of them are educated enough to realize it's really just a tax on the poor(anyone with an economics background knows this to be "true"). Poor uninformed GW players like buying golds with the hope of getting that perfect item but the truth to any educated player is that in most cases it will never happen(some educated rich players just have too much gold to care or perhaps they just enjoy the thrill but the truth is most buyers are not educated). This "checking" for mods has been going on for a long time, I can't say for sure how many but most "real" unid sellers know about this...the guys who have 8+ weapons that run around trying to sell them. Most non farmer honest players simply id the damn thing. Give me one good reason why you need unided weapons to stay in this game that cannot be solved by a merchat as I suggested.

Besides just because we use our imagination does not mean we have to throw away our logic. Sundering = Imagination....Unid Buying = (most cases) stupidity


where did you pull that idea out of? I've seen it go both ways. In the better games(an opinon I admit but sales back me up *cough* D&D *cough*) unided weapons can be used but thier effects are unknown but still present...closest to how GW is now. Items are inheriently magical...or not. ID kits...I D E N T I F Y nothing more.

First off this paragraph is confusing...not saying anything because I write like that sometimes but would you explain further plz?

ok...Yes to merchant...in fact Auction House all the way but removing unlocks is stupid...all we need is a bigger rift between pvp/pve

i personally know of over 2 dozen people who have reported it, and again, all he had to say was that its possible, listing the details was unneccisary.

I thought the method was common knowledge...

I've sold UnIDd weapons before. Usually hard to get items (to the average player), but not for outragous prices. I assume that most people buy unidentified in order to unlock things for PvP, that's what I do when I have spare gold. Some people just like the gamble. It's just as bad as stocking up on keys for chests.

I admit to testing items to see if it's something I can use, but I don't jack up a price because I know it's a +29 fortitude or whatever. I sold an Unidentified storm bow to someone yesterday for a low price. He PMd right away to share how excited he was that he got a 14%^50 req 9 gold storm bow that was 10/9 sundering and Armor +6. I was honestly happy for him. I got a some pocket change, a free inventory slot, and he got pretty much exactly what he was hoping for w/o having to empty his storage to pay for it.

(yes, I've sold 2 unid'd items for high prices for a guildie - who had set the prices for me... but that's not something i make a habit of doing... and the items were rare skinned and the market rates were comparable)

Sure, there are farmers and scammers out there, but don't start swinging a nerf bat to hurt the rest of us that aren't hurting people. If you don't like the farmers and scammers - don't buy things from them. That's the only thing that will hurt them, because they are enterprising people who will ALWAYS find a way to prevail.

I got that idea from years of gaming, your mileage may vary. In games that ID'ing an item meant something beyond a personal convenience those magical ID'd properties did not exist until you Id'd it. For one thing it kept this sort of thing from happening.

Same thing I did above. Lets assume for a minute that this game is Real Life. You are walking along and find a sword stuck in a stone, curious you pull it out and wave it about. It feels like a normal sword - after all that's what you take it for. You notice that it has a nice cut to it and look rare, probably magic, but until you know how to take advantage of it you can't. After taking it around for a while you find a magick indetifier who, for some fee, notes that it grants you +infinite health and now you are the greatest warrior in the land (or who ever you sell the sword too us since you tell them the secret also).

What I wrote, I think, makes sense from this point of view. Given how important unlocks are in this game, given that the only happen (in PvE) from ID'ing a blue or better item, I assumed that you could not tell the stats from an un-ID'd item - it seemed obvious that it was ripe for scamming. Once I realised this I assumed that most un-id'd sales were scams.

For most games that have something like unlocks that's the way it has worked. For things like DnD where this is a foreign concept it tends not to, but then DnD isn't the whole gaming world by any stretch of the imagination. Even then there have been quite a number of DnD games where ID's worked such that you didn't get the bonus until you ID'd it.

Woa there, I did not mean no unlocks in any case - I meant purchasing the mod didn't unlock it - same mechanics as purchasing runes. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Of all the complaints I've read the rune unlock system hasn't been part of it so I will assume you thought I meant no unlocks at all. Personally I don't care too much about unlocks other than the cost incurred (cost for un-id's items) - however you want to handle them is fine by me. I only PvP with my PvE chars and am mostly PvE - the main thing I use unlocks for is to pay attention if I need to re-evaluate my build for a new skill I know nothing about or add the next better item mod to my weapon (well, sorta, but you get my drift on that). That statement I made was weak (with respect to how much I want it, was trying to keep some balance based on my experience) to begin with.

Hopefully this made sense - it was late when I posted the first message, even later now.

people already knew...this isn't new to anyone but the unwashed masses

Many times that is because to activate the item you had to know the key...be it a word, action, thought, or situation; however, the item itself was always magical or not. This is classic D and D...many games do as you said, have no effect until iding but old school pnp D and D does not and as far as I'm concerned that's nuff said. If you're looking for computer game examples how about Baulder's Gate...Torment...BG2...frankly as far as I'm concerened Diablo 2 or say FF11 (both wich do it the no effect till ID way)don't stack up. What's more fun/sensical; having to run to town to id that sword to use it as a sword or test that scroll and get cursed because you didn't id it.


In real life(suspend your disbelief) however say you didn't id it but you go battle this monster and you know kinda how much damage you can take and suddenly you get "spiked" for more and live and wonder wtf? That is what I mean. Maybe the life could be there and be masked...don't know how A.net would do that but my point is simply that if the magic doesn't require a key to activate...as in it's always active...then it's always active...id or no id.

Don't get me wrong I'm very much for them fixing this and stoping the scamming as I'm completely for fair play. I'm only saying it would be nonsensical for A.net to make you id for you to know it's stats. Perhaps A.net will feel stopping a scam > relating to real life...I'd be fine with that. I would much prefer some other manner of fixing this.

Call me bias but pnp D and D is my scale of quality. If I can roleplay in a game as well or better then a pnp session...think the first time you played Planscape Torment all the way through...with more depth and realism then that is a quality game. I know this isn't exactly a RPG but why throw away realism when you do not have to.

as far as I know runes and mods are treated the same way...must id to unlock for pvp


Over all this I really just want to focus on this: A.net SHOULD do something to stop people from being able to scam others in this manner. I would like them to find another way then making you have to id a weapon for it's magic abilty to work...unless it is roleplayed into the item somehow...as I am for as much "realism" in a game as possible.

Wouldn't listing the details would provide the developers with a better idea of how to fix it?

How and why do ya find it morally ethical to purposly rip people off.
This type mentality is why the economy is the way it is.

I say bring out the nerf bat and hit a home run.

I knew I shouldn't have come here...

*Runs into the room and screams*
WWJD!!!!!!
*Runs out*

That's how I deal with my affairs

Ya wanna make gold make a 55 monk ya wanna try to make more go green farming. Don't like pve and want money go to hoh.

Ripping people off is not proper. would you like it done to you. Those who sell worthless unided items are no better then botters who sell gold on ebay then drive the market sky high in hopes ya buy more. Theirs a word for this its called monopoly and is illegal under any national law other then in communist
Countries. Practice a lil bit of ethics.

er...scaming = bad but this is in no way a "legal" monopoly...you can farm it yourself, hence you don't have to buy it from them to get hence no monopoly

all i have to say is


wild blow

you deserve to know how to test unid weapons if you can figure out what i mean

Can anyone confirm that testing un-id weapons still even works. I was doing a couple FoW chest runs today, and I just did a quick test for any hp mods. 2 weapoins in particular, I checked a staff and a sword, by equiping them of course. There was clearly no hp added, however when I ID'd them they had hp mods in the 20s. Can someone explain why they didnt show the +HP while they were un-identifed.

That is personal opinion. "old school" D&D isn't anywhere close to the whole gaming world (not even in the "Old School" time period before CRPG's when it was only one of a few). There are lots of other games out there, many I've liked as much or better, many I have not. Some would say Daiblo and FF are much better than the ones you listed. Personally I liked them all about the same.

I understodd your intent before, you asked for clarification on mine. The story was meant as a allegory to the way I see the game should be working, thus you can't use magical properties until you know how (as in ID them). It's my world and it works the way I want.


And I'm saying it's a made up world - there is nothing nonsensical about anyway they want to do it. If you have to fight through 50 mursaat and meditate for 10 real time hours with a minimum of 20 hullking stone elementals attacking you (with the timer resetting if any less than that do) to use an items properties how can you say that is nonsensical? Not fun - yes, but not the way it would really work? It's thier world and it works in the way they want it to.

When you play D&D's Planescape setting do you complain it's nonsensical? By the rest of D&D (especially "old school" D&D - though I guess it depends on what you mean by "old" - some now would call 3 "old") it is *very* much so. Of course, given that was the intention and it is a made up world who am I to say it's wrong?

Not to mention D&D' Wish, Fly, and several other spells.

Planescape never felt that real to me, I like the story but as I pointed out above the whole world is so nonsensical it's like reading something someone wrote on an acid trip. Lets face it, the whole thing about the main character in it was nosensical. That's fine, I like that type of game also. For me the best CRPG was Betrayal at Krondor

Yes, but there is no mod trader that I know of, hence why I said I wanted one but it wouldn't unlock anything. This is probably the best solution IMO.

Just as in PST you obviously roleplayed something far far far away from any reality I know of. Even further than almost any other D&D campaign setting or other RPG's. It just so happens that you liked those things and don't this one - that has nothing to do with how well one can role play it. I can do so just fine, other RPGS do so just fine, other people beside me do so just fine. We all have things we like and don't like, things we roleplay easily and not easily, but it is kinda arrogant to think that you have the One True Answer that all will follow (unless, of course, you are the God of Roleplaying, but I doubt that very much).

Plus I don't see any other way to to make magical modifers not be visable until ID's than to, well, not make them visable until ID'd. The other option is that equipping a weapon ID's it, but that is an alternate method of ID'ing something. I suspect that this would break things such as ID kits (still need them for armor/rune unlocks) and be worse down the road. This would also go further from your "Make it like D&D" idea than having the properties not work until ID'd.

You should be happy then about the D&D MMORPG being made - then you can quit GW and not have the risk of having to try and roleplay the unthinkable and impossible like not having magical weapons use thier magical qualities unless ID'd

Does this "trick" work on shields too? Since I have 2 unidentified golden Eternal Shields, required 8, which I'm definitly not identifying if this "trick" works on shields too.

yes it works on shields

fair enouh, there's gurps and special off the top of my head(for RPGs) but the attention to detail..as much or as little as you want...that's what makes D&D or any of those others so well done...but I admit it's all my opinion...i've never said otherwise

D2 and FF11 to some extent were fun but they were limited in their scope...hack and slash...I mean come on how do they compare to the scope of Never Winter Nights(player build mods not the 1st player)...and if you don't agree that's fine I really don't mean to come off as insulting

don't really agree with that but short of some kind of case by case analysis I can't really say how something is a product of good imagination vs. nonsensically created to make the game work...i can give an example though, rez shrines...need them in some format but makes little sense in most cases. I liked PT because dieing was worked into the game in such a way as to make sense(or at least you can see the attention of the designers to make it...sensical for a lack of a better word) and still function.

true but I (yes it's a personal opinion) hate when games put something in for function and put no roleplaying aspect into the game as to why it functions that way...the less of these things there are the better (again IMO)

it was a made up world and very strange but pretty much everything had a reason for being why it was

wish is fun...more for when it goes wrong

acid trip....true very true but I guess that's why I liked it but everything was logical if a tad trite(the memory thing) and definately strange

BaK = very fun too


agreed and hopefully they will do that but most people buy weapons in the hope of getting the non upgradable mods...the +15% damage or 10/10 for real cheap there would still be unid trading...hence my suggestion to add a unid merchant as well like D2 had

fair and I dont' mean to come off arrogant...PT was just an example, I've actaully roleplayed D&D with low magic very close to reality in PnP and no, no goldly powers here...and I don't dislike GW just the devs having to change this to stop scamming...i'm for nerfs and so far the nerfs have been for the benefit of logic...aoe causing mobs to run away; or have no effect on it at all...changing how skills work

they could just have the mods take effect without showing them...i.e. do more damge but only show the non modde damage...or have more life but not show the added life from mods, so you would notice the effects if you looked really hard but it would be near impossible to calculate the mod on the weapon...just some code change in how numbers are displayed...easier I would imagine then writing a new trader

and you're on my case for arrogance...meh...no roleplaying in GW really...feel free to disagree(but I'm fine with that)...and I'll stick to NWN 2 and forget the MMORPGs all together...but I'll still play and like GW

here's hoping they did something

You have, in that you declared anything else wrong. "I don't like" and "That is wrong and nonsensical" are two different beasts. You recognise it when I do it (and, for some of those cases it was my intention), just see it in your self too.

I guess it depends. NWN was, IMO, one of the best done RPG's in ages - it's not really a fair comparison. I don't think it was because of the D&D liscense - I much prefer the 2E stuff, but how open ended they made everything. Morriwind was another example, though possibly too open ended.

This was essentially my point - I found that to be really contrived. Yes, it logically worked (just as one can make the un-ID'd items not giving thier magical bonuses logically work). I didn't raelly like except for the times that I took advantage of it in amusing ways. I much prefered a real death penalty given how the game tried for "reality" as much as that planescape universe would allow. I never really felt the need to not die - something which the character *should* have felt given that his memory was going - I still knew everything I did before.

My point is that it is not really that clear where that line is. Using PST again - did the death thing *really* add to the roleplaying? Or was it to adress the complaints in other D&D games where death was more permanent? I suspect a little of both, I was never a fan of death in other D&D (or wizardry) games in that it was too permament. PST went the opposite way and made it too easy for me to really roleplay. Yes, the story line helped, but like the story helped in the others too I didn't really like it.

Many of which were created by the players doing "role playing". Something that can easily be done if my suggestion were to be the case (but since Anet doesn't seem to care, I doubt it).

Very much agreed - it's what really seperates CRPG's from P&P and can be quite a large amount of fun. Especially given what casting it costs. But it fails the "nonsensical" meme and is still roleplayed to quite a large extent (and is probably some of the best RPG stuff in the game if done right).

It got me to read all his books. Still one of my favorite series, though I've liked his last two books the least. Magician was great and the Serpent War series is also very good.

You can still get the +15>50 in all but the Axe (us axe warriors get no love, though the +15 while enchant works very well for my farmer) and the 10/10 would be a tradable "sundering" mod. If PvP people fell for it, given how easy faction is to unlock them vs. the amount of gold needed too (assuming a trader), then it's thier own fault.

Amusingly enough the PST comment came before reading the whole post and getting to the PST stuff you said. I didn't really figure you meant too - just that you are judging everything by a very specific standard that many do not adhere too. I like D&D and see what they have done for RPG's, yet they have many problem IMO.

My point is that almost anything can be roleplayed if you are not fixed on a specific idea. I don't mean that in that a world can be logically incoherent, but to judge GW because it doesn't make sense in D&D, well, doesn't make sense. GW is it's own game - it would be a shame to judge D&D based on GW if that was the path you went from also. The un-ID'd change would be hard in D&D, but in GW it logically makes, at least, as much sense as not doing it. I would argue, given how the economy ended up working that it makes *More* logical sense for it to work that way. Right now, from a role playing point of view, you can know you have a +30 hp mod, use it - benfit from it, but not really know it is there until you apply an ID kit to it (assuming that unlocks have a RPG sense of "knowing"). That makes little internal sense.

Ultimatly if the mods take effect then they will be noticeable. There is no way to hide something that has a visable effect. You may make it harder to discern, but that doesn't really do much (given the damage/health calues there is no way to hide it to the point that it is too hard to figure. At the least they will figure out that killing a grawl in two vs three shots means X and so forth). You have an either/or situation. It either doesn't show or it does - there is no in between.

HAHA, that's why the smiley was there I'm actually kinda looking forward to the D&D mmorpg. It may let me down quite a bit, but I can always hope. If it does, as you say, there is always NWN and NWN 2. I didn't want the above to be taken too harshly and I knew it came off as such - I have many a friend that we have (of course geeky) discussions about this sort of thing. I'm always the "let it all hang out" person and not strict at all. To me, fantasy is fantasy and who can say what is right and wrong in a made up world as long as it internally works out? Even if it isn't anywhere close to what I like.

Fair enough, they are all personal judgements but, though I may have failed, I tried to give some backing that could be common ground...I admit I really didn't worry too much about any of as it's like 2 am here and was yesterday too.


aside from perhaps a special(Fallout) or gurps(any PC games with this?) base what other universe could you see running something this broad? I'm not saying a game has to be D&D to be good(I loved Arcanum and Lionheart to some extent[1st half]) but "I feel" it makes a good standard, though we seem to disagree how strongly it should apply and that's fine.

Do you remember the party where it is explianed that you will no longer forget for whatever reason and that ecah time you die someone dies in your place? Those reasons worked enough for me...even if they were contrived the game provided reasons. And in the endgame when you die you lose party members. The idea was also to put the player in the weird ass situation of not fearing death so much...sometimes death helps was a selling point of the game if I remember...wow this is totally tangent so I think I'll stop after this post

agreed in single player games you die and reload but that breaks the roleplaying somewhat and in multiplayer games you have systems that rez you and are somewhat lacking...there really doesn't seem to be a way to make it all "nice" but death is an extreme case

there's always chap 2


true but all the money is in the skin...most unid trading worth anything...over 2-5k is of rarer skins, as much as I use all blues that's not going to change the unid trading market...people want a way to gamble on rare items...really really rare items...everybody knows powerball


again fair enough but D&D is to RGP as Tolken, Akira, Asimov...blah blah...but forget all of it I understand your point and concede it's only a matter of preference

I would storngly prefer them to find another way around fixing this scam...how's that?

if D&D is the standard I've made it out to be crosswise comparisons would only be fair but it's mute...and I agree it's too easy to know hp and energy mods the rest take some work though

it's not about stopping it from ever being found out it's about making the scamming so hard to do that joe schmoe won't do it...just like drug laws are not really expected to "stop" drugs, just make things harder and less prevelent. If they did as I suggested I bet in all but the most "too much time on their hands" people wouldn't bother.

I know you weren't serious about the last part. Whatever they decide on it i'll still love the game but I'ma have to grumble some...yay for being a hypocrite...been ragging on the anti nerf farm guys all week.

I'm saying people use this technique mostly to rip people off. You shouldn't the game isn't especially easy to honestly make gold (lol) But Everyones able to make more then they need easily without blaitently ripping people off and knowing their doing it. The only thing I have to actually work for is ecto and shard for fissure armor and thats more time consuming then actual work sense in the right co-op is easy.

I do wish they would add some kinda delay (1-3sec) to aoe triggers though,Or just remove zelots from list. can only heal so much before ya tap yourself and have to keep spending nrg to do it. no different then an attack.

before you critisize me, learn to read.
i was accusing him of enabling scammers to be more rampant, and that the knowledge he provided will only serve to allow even more people to abuse this technique.

i should mention, however, that he has regained some respect points in my book for deleting the details.
i think whats important is that people know that its possible to determine an items mods without IDing it, i just dont think they need to be told how...
that would be like alerting people to the problem of bankrobbers...by instructing them on how to successfully rob a bank.

I agree with most everyone here, that this practice should be nerfed.
However, I think that anyone with half a brain could have figured out how to do it once they knew it was going on.

I would not put it that way as he said above people are just trying to get lucky

Also this is fun it is gambleing and it can make you money.

Jeeze i can't say this enough...make a trader for unides...then only the salers are hurt but who cares...