Ritualists--Offensively Underpowered? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Dodo The Extinct

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Me/Rt

22 Jan 2006 at 17:27 - 1

I never ever, ever liked to play a physical class. So when the ritualist came out, I was happy.

But, being a CA lover, I soon saw that a large of the ritualists skills were defensive, and the ones that actually did good damage required alot of timing, or big rechage times or teambuilds. Am I being unobservant, or does the good, offensive CA Ritualist not exist?

Axis

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

White Redeemers

N/Me

22 Jan 2006 at 17:45 - 2

There are some good dmg spirits. What you need for spirits its Ritual Lord, elite spell. With that spell all the spirits recharge 65% faster on 13 attribute points. That means basicly under 30 sec. Than there are 1 hex that makes every spirit do +20 dmg on the target for some time.. think its around 25-30 sec. Than there spells that do lightning dmg too... so I dont think the dmg is a problem for a ritualist.

Ipse_Dixit

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Ka-Tet of Ascalon (kt)

Me/N

22 Jan 2006 at 17:46 - 3

Actually, the pre-made earthbinder build does some pretty good damage, especially if you throw in Dissonance to inturpt their healing. It just takes patience to deal damage as a rt. In fact, imo the rt is a little overpowered in pvp.... though i might think them a trifel useless in pve. I guess only time will tell.

A User Name

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

None atm

22 Jan 2006 at 18:01 - 4

I think ritualist is the farthest thing from overpowered in PvP. Thier spirits are way to easy to kill and in my opinion need a buff before the offical release. I also noticed that the offensive ritualist spells that did good damage have huge recharge time and/or need really good coordination to be effective in CA(RA), TA, Hero's ascent(tombs).

jaibas17

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tampico, Mexico

Blood Eagle [BE]

W/Mo

22 Jan 2006 at 18:03 - 5

rit/r + oath shot = gg

Pyrii

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

South UK

Haibane Renmei

E/Mo

22 Jan 2006 at 18:10 - 6

They also need to tweak the NPCs to stop them from ONLY attacking Ritualists, in the learning PvP matches I was prime target, I spent most of the time healing myself and therefore got almost no faction. If I died and then revived, less than a second before I saw 5 damage indictators above my character and half my health gone.

I know about intelligent AI attacking healers first, but well, this is silly.

Dodo The Extinct

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Me/Rt

22 Jan 2006 at 18:38 - 7

I agree, spirits are way to easy to kill. There is shadowsong, but even that, has a sad recharge time. I hate it when I put up my spirits, and they just attack them, and then they attack me. And then I die.

The only real offensive thing ritualists have going for them is destruction and rupture soul.

Rikimaru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

R/

22 Jan 2006 at 18:44 - 8

Don't Ritualists have a skill that destroys all of their spirits and resets the timers on them? That would make them work completely fine in PvE.

TGgold

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Flying Gophers

Rt/P

22 Jan 2006 at 18:47 - 9

Don't forget that they have Vengeful Blade. It's in restoration, but it does a decent amount of dmg and healing if used against thick players (ones who keep attacking through it).
I think that Ritualists are really designed for supporting roles though, since they seem to fare just as well as a monk at them. And the knockdown, interrupt, etc is always appreciated.

Teh Azman

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

I Used Charm Animal On Your [MOM]

Me/R

22 Jan 2006 at 18:49 - 10

I think they're supposed to be like a mesmerish thing... Channeling (illusion, debufs and decent damage) Communing (domination, disruption and decent damage) and replacing an energy draining line is restoration, which does as the name implies. What I mean by this is I don't think they're supposed to be all about the damage... A mesmer monk crossbreed, if you will.

calamitykell

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

N.Y.C.

22 Jan 2006 at 18:50 - 11

I played the Earthbinder a couple times. It's alright, but then I played the Rt/Mo premade, and I love it. But I have to echo the complaint of spirits dying too easily. Against the ViM Trapper team in the Zaishen Challenge, I put a spirit up, and they trap it, and it's dead in less than 5 seconds. Now I have nothing to show for it, and I'm waiting 45-60 seconds before I can waste energy again.

I'm not going to say the spirits are useless, but they need some kind of defensive buff, as even with 12 in the summon attribute (where each points gives +4% more hp), they die fairly quick.

I can't comment on damage, as I haven't tried playing a Rt to do damage, but the frailty of spirits makes me a little sad sometimes.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

22 Jan 2006 at 19:02 - 12

Spirits are only easy to kill if you plant them everywhere like an idiot.

Its all about location when it comes to spirits.Not to mention, I doubt a spirit that can does no more than 20 damage a hit(without the superior runes) will take priority over enemy classes.

The ritualist also has several skills that allow them to penalize the people attacking the spirits,and spells that heal spirits when used agaisnt foes.

Since everyone is using premade builds that have none of these skills involved of course they seem offensively underpowered.

calamitykell

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

N.Y.C.

22 Jan 2006 at 19:09 - 13

Excellent point, and I hadn't really even looked at it that way. When more skills are available, it's very possible the Rt will play out just fine. Managing the Rt spirits in the premade builds can be a little hopeless (mostly since they die relatively quickly, and take 60 seconds to recharge)

Pyrii

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

South UK

Haibane Renmei

E/Mo

22 Jan 2006 at 19:17 - 14

I suppose spirits can make good meatsheilds where your team-mates seem innefective at protecting you. Sorta of like dummy double spawn one and run away, NPCs tend to ignore them though.

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

22 Jan 2006 at 19:18 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

Don't forget that they have Vengeful Blade. It's in restoration, but it does a decent amount of dmg and healing if used against thick players (ones who keep attacking through it).

Weapon skills are not enchantments, but thank you for playing. The attacker has zero warning that this skill is active unless it is cast on the ritualist that has the skill. It is also parrallel to reversal of fortune, so its not like they can stop their attack when it lands either. It does say damage as well, so im not sure if it will steal health from direct damage spells or not.

Vengeful was kahaei or however its spelled is a different story entirely.

I havent seen it yet though, but has the minion master with signet of creation and hitting em all with death nova a little over the top? All of it lasts 30s, then dies. That sounds a little too convient to me. Walking nuke bombs going off at the same time, umm yes please.

And whoever was saying rits dont have offense, really havent looked too closely at the channeling line of skills.

nutsngum

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

22 Jan 2006 at 19:22 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaibas17

rit/r + oath shot = gg

Oath shot with 50% failure because you're a ritualist with no expertise = you don't know what you're talking about.

TGgold

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Flying Gophers

Rt/P

22 Jan 2006 at 19:24 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Weapon skills are not enchantments, but thank you for playing. The attacker has zero warning that this skill is active unless it is cast on the ritualist that has the skill. It is also parrallel to reversal of fortune, so its not like they can stop their attack when it lands either. It does say damage as well, so im not sure if it will steal health from direct damage spells or not.

Vengeful was kahaei or however its spelled is a different story entirely.

I don't get it. I never said it was an enchantment O.O
Don't the skin of the weapons change when you use weapon spells?

But, it's like RoF, but cooler (imo). I'm just throwing the idea out, since a lot of people will take the punishment repeatedly (ie, if you stand there and recast it over and over) without thinking to stop attacking.

TGgold

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Flying Gophers

Rt/P

22 Jan 2006 at 19:26 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsngum

Oath shot with 50% failure because you're a ritualist with no expertise = you don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe he meant R/Rt?
Secondly: Does expertise effect binding spirits?

A User Name

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

None atm

22 Jan 2006 at 19:27 - 19

Yes position is important with spirits but it is still way to easy for say a single foe to eliminate all your spirits. Also the health that spirits gain from i think it is spirit boon strike is 82 i think at 12 attribute which is only 1 more attack from a warrior or assassin. Also i dont like the fact that it does lightining damage becuase of all the work for one spell becomes vastly less effective against warriors and rangers (maybe make it with more armor pentration i dk ) my opinion only.

Esrever

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Looking For Guild

22 Jan 2006 at 19:32 - 20

Expertise does affect binding rituals.

Feng Leung

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

[Yarr] We Plunder You Now

W/

22 Jan 2006 at 19:34 - 21

i like my 200 dmg spike with my ritualist though...

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

22 Jan 2006 at 20:00 - 22

The ritualist nukers are ok if you have a spirit spammer on your team. Channeling has a lot of spammables and most of them are comparable to elementalist nukes. He's probably better than an Air guy for straight nuking if you have that spirit guy on your team, since you'd have better strike/orb replacements and a deeper nuke line.

Offensive spirit spammers aren't terrible. The damage or disruption a spirit causes can be pretty effective for the time investment. Pain is a great investment, Bloodsong and Shadowsong are similarly cheap effects that pay for themselves, and Dissonance/Disenchantment are spendy but can be incredibly disruptive. Just keep kicking 'em out faster than your opponent can knock 'em down and go nuts.

Peace,
-CxE

Guardian of the Light

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Radicals Against Tyrants

W/

22 Jan 2006 at 20:09 - 23

I tried a ri/n SM (Sprit master)/MM (minion Master).

Boon of creatation will activate if you summon minions and the ritualist primary attruibute will affect Minion Health.

Ritualist are basically the caster of all trades. They can do direct damage, heal and summon.

drowningfish999

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Awakened Tempest [aT]

22 Jan 2006 at 21:06 - 24

Ritualists are good for nearly everything, the only downside is that they are relatively immobile in terms of their spirits, seeing as a number of their spells, especially healing, are less efficient out or range of spirits, and the fact that a lot of the damage and healing comes from the spirits themselves.

They are good for long lasting battles, maybe in Tombs or something, but especially in PvE they won't be as effective for the quick short term stuff.

NightOwl

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

22 Jan 2006 at 21:49 - 25

As far as Ritualists in pve, they may have some potential there. In larger fights it would provide solid control of an area to strengthen the team considerably. Monking often gets a bit tricky in the higher levels, even with 2 monks on a team, in some spots. It depends on when the rt skills become available, so it's a bit early to say for the lower levels.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

22 Jan 2006 at 21:57 - 26

Ritualists aren't meant as damage builds. If you look at the skills, they are basically the spirits of the ranger (with some more usefulness) and support spells.

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

22 Jan 2006 at 22:46 - 27

The ritualist is not lacking the offense department at all. The premades are the only thing i see lacking.

Look at spirits like doom that can cause some massive dmg on an huge aoe scale. Rupture spirit and rapant growth can cause some massive dmg as well.

Weapon spells are going to be the "new" thing. I've already tested brutal weapon on a ranger spiker in CA. You can get around a 300-350 dmg spike from dual>quick>savage under kindle, brutal, and favorable from 1 ranger. Add that to the teams that use 2 rangers and you can have a split spike like we have never seen before.

Another thing about spirits is look at their duration times. Some of them last for nearly 3 minutes. This is perfect for guild base defenses to add to the npcs.

Biggest weakness I have seen so far is that the spirits CANNOT KILL YOU. They will reduce your life to 1 but then deal you 0 dmg. I don't know if that is a bug or if its intended.

BBoy_Manchild

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

dayton ohio

N/Mo

23 Jan 2006 at 00:21 - 28

ritualist primary still seems to lack a full on anything, every attribute seems to be a halfass version of other classes, but Rt is an awsome secondary, no more Mo/Me

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

23 Jan 2006 at 00:26 - 29

If anyone use channeling, they will know that a ritualist can do a solo spike of 350+ AoE damage (on 60 armor) all within 1 or 2 sec during the execution after setting everything. You can go higher, but it would require someone to deal your energy for you (if you do... It is about a 595 AoE damge spike). There is also another spike which is also AoE and can do up to around 445 AoE, but is alot harder to time and setup.

Soon enough, this spike probably would be harder to pull off just like lightning surge.

They are far from being offensively underpowered. Ritualist have the most variety of ways to do damage in a single class.

TGgold

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Flying Gophers

Rt/P

23 Jan 2006 at 01:36 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

ritualist primary still seems to lack a full on anything, every attribute seems to be a halfass version of other classes, but Rt is an awsome secondary, no more Mo/Me

I honestly disagree. I think that my ritualist works well at what he does. I'm fond of their weapon skills, and their new mechanics.
I think that the more you play them, the more they grow on you.

And they are offensively more difficult to use, but NOT underpowered.

A User Name

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

None atm

23 Jan 2006 at 01:55 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

I honestly disagree. I think that my ritualist works well at what he does. I'm fond of their weapon skills, and their new mechanics.
I think that the more you play them, the more they grow on you.

And they are offensively more difficult to use, but NOT underpowered.

After taking the time and really messing around with all sorts of ritualist damage builds (and revising my opinion as stated eariler) their damage is very good against casters (60 armor), but there effectivness is reduced when attack rangers and warriors due to heavier armor. Basically i agree 100% with wat TGgold is saying here. Except i think the spirits are still too weak.

Deathqueen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

23 Jan 2006 at 02:34 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrii

They also need to tweak the NPCs to stop them from ONLY attacking Ritualists, in the learning PvP matches I was prime target, I spent most of the time healing myself and therefore got almost no faction. If I died and then revived, less than a second before I saw 5 damage indictators above my character and half my health gone.

I know about intelligent AI attacking healers first, but well, this is silly.

Hah I only wish real players were as good at focusing on one target like the henchies do. That's exactly what you're suppose to do, take out the healer first then the artillery, though the ranger is my 2nd choice over an ele, because of those dang interupts.

It's rare I find a good team as good as the henchies are. Long live henchies and their perfect focus abilities.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

23 Jan 2006 at 02:41 - 33

lol IMHO Ritualist are not underpowered, in fact if someone was to say they considered them overpowered, I might agree with them.

I think the problems Pyrii is perhaps having is that Rt/Mo aren't healers, they are support healers. They will never have the same healing power as a monk and really are hopeless at looking after themselves. Of couse this does partially have to do with the skill unlocks, and yes it does make it difficult in the arena. Unfair though? IMO, no.

toastgodsupreme

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

United States

Me/

23 Jan 2006 at 13:59 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaibas17

rit/r + oath shot = gg

Haha, you are correct sir!

After farming tons of faction from my N/Me killing assassins, I wanted to try Rit.

Ranger/Rit with high expertise and oath shot and I was able to keep spirits up easily.

My big issue is that for PvE, Rits are going to blow, HARD. Cast times are horrible and recharge is just ass. Even with some of the skills that improve cast times (rit skill imrpoving cast times by 15% for UP TO 30 SECONDS, that's WEAK).

In my opinion a lot of Rit skills need tweaking. Their AI should be a little imrpoved (at least for the healing spirits, they should always want to heal the person with least health who is closest). It's also annoying to bring up a spirit (like the one that blinds) and have it NOT target the warrior right on top of you (the reason you brought it up in the first place).

Deathqueen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

23 Jan 2006 at 15:16 - 35

One thing I can see right now they are going to have to nerf on Ritualists is spirit spamming. I counted no less than 20 spirits of pain while watching on HoH battle. And this after someone told me that only one type of spirit could be out no matter how many ritualists. This will become as much of a pain as ranger spirit spamming and will definitely need a nerf to be like the ranger spirits. Only 1 type per team.

toastgodsupreme

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

United States

Me/

23 Jan 2006 at 17:37 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathqueen

One thing I can see right now they are going to have to nerf on Ritualists is spirit spamming. I counted no less than 20 spirits of pain while watching on HoH battle. And this after someone told me that only one type of spirit could be out no matter how many ritualists. This will become as much of a pain as ranger spirit spamming and will definitely need a nerf to be like the ranger spirits. Only 1 type per team.

So you bring an AoE nuker and eoe bomb the spirits. Drop the first few and the rest go down fast.

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

23 Jan 2006 at 17:47 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

My big issue is that for PvE, Rits are going to blow, HARD. Cast times are horrible and recharge is just ass. Even with some of the skills that improve cast times (rit skill imrpoving cast times by 15% for UP TO 30 SECONDS, that's WEAK).

Use soul twisting and serpents quickness. Those skills is designed to pickup and move. If you are using oath shot and expertise, i dont know why you are complaining.

toastgodsupreme

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

United States

Me/

23 Jan 2006 at 17:50 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Use soul twisting and serpents quickness. Those skills is designed to pickup and move. If you are using oath shot and expertise, i dont know why you are complaining.

It's the fact that I HAD to use oath shot + expertise. Granted, it was fun as hell and I laughed as my spirits wreaked havoc (rangers are targeted far less than Rits I noticed).

Cast and recharge times are just going to hurt in PvE for say, a Rit/non-ranger.

Phades

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

23 Jan 2006 at 18:20 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

It's the fact that I HAD to use oath shot + expertise. Granted, it was fun as hell and I laughed as my spirits wreaked havoc (rangers are targeted far less than Rits I noticed).

Cast and recharge times are just going to hurt in PvE for say, a Rit/non-ranger.

Well it seems anguished was linwah with glyph of renewal is also another work around, depending on the goal of the build.

Synthos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

23 Jan 2006 at 19:23 - 40

The ritualist I believe was designed to be a support class, but what it does it does well.. With powerful spirits that can give entire team mending, constant 100+ healing, plus blinding and disruption and also damage reduction; Along side a good monk a Ritualist is an amazing ally and a welcome addition to the game.

I tested this class thoroughly this weekend and I actually succeeded with it, especially in the team arenas. A few teams that I was in even won 5 or 6 flawless wins in a row, and I haven’t really pvp’ed that much in the past. The teams that we usually got flawless with consisted of 1 or 2 Ritualist’s, a Monk, Warrior or Ranger, and an Elementalist.

I found that spirit placement and timing is everything, its best to lay down the healing and mending spirits first behind the scenes, best behind a wall or rock; out of sight and also not in one location. Then lay down the blinding and disruption spirits up in the fight. I found the spirit “Shadowsong” to be particularly effective against warrior based teams and this also helps to protect your healing spirits.

I was also acting as an active healer during the weekend, the Ritualist isn’t a half bad healer with neat new spells like the new vital weapon spells along others.

The Ritualist is actually a very powerful class when played correctly; With allot to bring to the table. Give people a break when they play them, they are just learning the class and like one of you said, they can only really play the templates at first. With a little practice I think this will be an unstoppable class.