"echo nuking" - why?

koneko

Site Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2005

38??16′ N 140??52′ E

Mo/Me

I am having a difficult time finding groups in the most common farming areas (Ruins of the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, Sorrow's Furnace, et cetera) with my ele since I don't run with a "zomgzorz echo nooker of ownagezorz," which everybody seems to want.

I can see the argument for "echo nuking" in that you can throw out the big spells (Meteor Shower) quickly by using Arcane Echo/Echo/Glyph of Renewal or some odd combination of those. To me, though, that just screams "no energy management, you're useless after the first or second volley and have a load of exhaustion." And most PUGs that I have grouped with while trying to run with this type of build don't give me time to get my energy back up to reasonable levels before rushing into another mob.

Could someone that uses an "echo nuker" explain to me why it's in such high demand other than the possible reason I mentioned above? I just find that my "non-echo nuking" ele can put out quite a great deal of damage without a) massive exhaustion and b) energy management problems.



(Search is broken still. Boo.)

calamitykell

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

N.Y.C.

But it does a lot of damage. What more do you need?

/common opinion

koneko

Site Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2005

38??16′ N 140??52′ E

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by calamitykell
But it does a lot of damage. What more do you need?

/common opinion
It just bothers me that it tends to throw energy management out of the window. No energy = gg, you're semi-useless if the battle drags on if the mob isn't dead.

Am I just missing something completely, or is this just another playing style that only the new kids are down with? :|

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

I kind of find it sad that most groups don't want eles unless they are echo nukers (except in certain cases where it is needed for a certain build), but I do have to admit that they are effective. I usually run my ele as a renewal nuker (used to run as echo nuker) and have found a good balanced build that controls energy pretty well. If interested, here's my build:

max att in fire, a little att in inspiration, and the rest in energy storage.

Skill bar:

Glyph of Renewal
Meteor Shower
Rogdort's Invocation
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Searing Heat
Mantra of Resolve (can be replaced and att points taken out of insp if you will face no interupts)
Fire Attunement
Rez Sig

Basically, I use Renewal, then MS, then lesser energy with Searing heat. I wait until Renewal recharges to do another nuke and same with lesser energy to use with searing heat. Rogdorts is just a good finishing blast. While this doesn't throw out a bunch of nukes that quickly, you do have a 15 sec recharge time to throw down another MS instead of the otherwise 60 sec recharge time. I have found with Fire attunement that energy is not a problem, save maybe in really intense and long firefights.

If you really want an echo nuke build try using Archane Echo with MS, then use glyph of sacrifice before using the echoed MS to throw down two MS at once. While this can do some fast dmg, it will have a long recharge time. If you can afford to throw down 3 nukes, use Renewal on your echoed MS before using glyph of sac to cast it again.

If you get really sick of fire, try out some other ele builds in PvP. Earth, air and water work better there, especially air.

LifeInfusion

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

Have been Air or Earth builds since july. Fire has nothing like the wellroundness of these elements.

Wards, weakness, blind, armor ignoring. Fun.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by koneko
"I just find that my "non-echo nuking" ele can put out quite a great deal of damage without a) massive exhaustion and b) energy management problems."
If you have a build that works well without echo nuking, then don't worry about echo nuking. It's not the only build that works, but since it's easier to notice a meteor shower than other skills an ele uses, they think it's the only thing that is really contributing to the group. This, imho, is why rangers, necros (except MM with big armies of minions), and mesmers often get overlooked in PvE, no one realizes how much they are actually contributing to the groups success.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Have been Air or Earth builds since july. Fire has nothing like the wellroundness of these elements.

Wards, weakness, blind, armor ignoring. Fun.
Aye, wards can be VERY helpful to keep a group alive. It's kind of like a reverse nuke.

Caleb

Caleb

Nil nisi malis terrori.

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/Me

My ele has been earth/water for several months, but at one point I did use arcane echo with meteor shower and firestorm. I only pipe up to speak on the energy issue you mentioned. My guess is that you aren't using both elemental and fire attunement, I may be wrong.

Energy management is not an issue at all. With Elemental Attunement and Fire Attunement running, you are getting back 80% of your skills cost upon casting. Even an average ele with 80-90 energy is going to have no problem casting the 2 attunements, then arcane echo, meteor shower, firestorm, *meteor storm. You may be down to 40 energy or so after an extended battle, if you are casting your other fire spells as much as possible in between storms and showers.

With the latest AOE adjustments this "echo nuking" oft causes more problems with aggro than it solves, and I prefer to play in groups that don't have an AOE ele because almost all my characters are squishy and tend to be targets of the multi aggro'd mobs.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb The Pontiff
My ele has been earth/water for several months, but at one point I did use arcane echo with meteor shower and firestorm. I only pipe up to speak on the energy issue you mentioned. My guess is that you aren't using both elemental and fire attunement, I may be wrong.

Energy management is not an issue at all. With Elemental Attunement and Fire Attunement running, you are getting back 80% of your skills cost upon casting. Even an average ele with 80-90 energy is going to have no problem casting the 2 attunements, then arcane echo, meteor shower, firestorm, *meteor storm. You may be down to 40 energy or so after an extended battle, if you are casting your other fire spells as much as possible in between storms and showers.

With the latest AOE adjustments this "echo nuking" oft causes more problems with aggro than it solves, and I prefer to play in groups that don't have an AOE ele because almost all my characters are squishy and tend to be targets of the multi aggro'd mobs.
Aye, ele attunement is a good way to manage energy.

I have to admit though, the hardest build I had to manage energy with was a full earth build that I used before I had many elites. Exhaustion killed me =P

In regards to the AoE update, while MS is still relatively useful compared to firestorm, it can cause a lot of aggro in areas you wouldn't want it to. I think since this update, defensive eles and single attack eles are a lot more useful.

Knido

Knido

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

in exile

W/

fire nukers are amazing in altar and relic run maps in Tombs

Meteor kicks the ass of most relic runners, and Meteor Shower kicks the ass of most IWAY teams and is very helpful on altar maps

and most exp. fire nukers have figured out their own way for energy management since they shouldnt be using a damage elite really

but thats just from me

draco inferno

draco inferno

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

van down by the river

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

for the record, there were ppl like me playing echo nukers since launch. so it isnt just a new fad/build, it has been around for a while.
b/c of my extended leave of absence from the game and the fact that i am now in love with my MM, i havent really played my ele since they added the AoE patch.
from what i do remember from my old build, however, was that searing heat>meteor shower, especially for an echo nuker. even in a big open area, SH can cause most enemies to be hit. bigger AoE, just no knockdown.
as for energy management, fire attunement is a must. then, it's either glyph of energy (eliminates exhaustion for longer battles) or elemental attunement (my personal pick, doesnt cut back on exhaustion but still gives back a lot of energy).
with what i have heard from the anti-AoE patch, i will probably end up going to the unlimited air spike (air+elemental attunement, almost never runs out of energy). perhaps ill play around a bit with earth and water.
if none of this helps explain anything, then sorry for wasting your time :P

koneko

Site Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2005

38??16′ N 140??52′ E

Mo/Me

First, a big "thank you" to those that answered. I'm too tired to read through everything right now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb The Pontiff
My ele has been earth/water for several months, but at one point I did use arcane echo with meteor shower and firestorm. I only pipe up to speak on the energy issue you mentioned. My guess is that you aren't using both elemental and fire attunement, I may be wrong.
I know that I've tried it using dual attunements in the past...I tried it just now and they keep getting stripped by mesmers. :/

I would be using an air ele build in PvE...but nobody wanted me in their group when I was, either.

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

the difference between the "echo nuking" than "steady nuking" is how fast you finish the mob.

People tend to prefer finishing the mob off early even if you have to sit around later, as this allow less mistake to be made during the battle.

Although I am not a big fan of fire, but I also must admit meteor shower being the most powerful spell of all ele spells.

300+ with knockdown AoE damage for 25 energy + exhaustion
is way better than
150 damage for 25 energy
or
100 damage for 10 energy (it is lame, they scatter with fireball...)

Meteor shower also don't scatter as much like most of the AoE out there.

also that why would people want your defensive spells when they can get it from monk who does it better? (common believes; I would argue that ward against harm and ward against melee being excellent for their energy and recharge if not better than monk)

Anyway, the point is that there are nothing that kill mobs that stand there than echo meteor shower. (obviously it is slowly getting replace by SS, as SS can do about the same damage as MS in 3 sec while lasting longer + less energy + better recharge + shorter casting, the only thing SS don't do is disabling the target from hitting you)

I can only sigh for ele... There are only one part Anet are kind enough to do is that, you can get MS quite early in the game making ele the best AoE nuker until spiteful jump in.

EternalTempest

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

Fire Rain causes mobs to flea in terror with the AOE change, it's a great, get off the monk spell for 10 seconds unless it's Alessia...

I think the fact this is common is works well and when you start a new ele, you only get fire skills out the rear untill way latter in the game. If anet wants more non-fire ele with C2 start them on a different "path" air for example, or give us balance spells from all schools from the begining.

PS I still love being a fire ele. I tend to go with "burst" aoe spells as the bulk of the skills.

coolsti

coolsti

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Denmark

I think that people who expect you to be an echo nuker as an elementalist are people you should just avoid forming parties with. Echo nuking may work fine, but it is not the only way to play an elementalist. There are lots of other ways to play elementalist, and its a shame that people are too impatient to let you do something else. A blinding + weakening air elementalist is an incredible amount of help to any team, for example, but then the battles may take a little bit more time each time.

I find that energy management is a general problem with elementalists, and that is one of the reasons why I rather play my Mesmer, Necro or Ranger characters. I remember playing air elementalist in one of the Rings of Fire island missions, and the leaders in the group kept rushing from one mob to the next, despite my broadcasting an energy of about 5/82. It got to the point that I just started to stay back and skip every other battle to let my energy recharge. If they weren't going to wait, then they had to accept that my elementalist skills were not going to be available for each battle.

EF2NYD

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Echo nuking does not work with 99% of PUGs.

Warskull

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2005

[out]

Firestorm and Meteor Shower are high damage skills. PvE players are attracted to them because they make big numbers appear. Remember most players can't put together a halfway decent build to save their life. You'll find tons of players running weak builds in PvE (like all the Mo/W healing monks.)

Pevil Lihatuh

Pevil Lihatuh

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Yorkshire, UK

R/Me

agreed with coolsti.

for those who enjoy playing the 'cookie cutter' builds, good luck to you guys. I however like to play my own way. Even one of my friends from another forum that I regularly group with would rather take the usual "bonder/healer/SS/Echo" team than take my Ranger. He wants me to get my other chars through the game so that I'll have a Monk, Necro, Mesmer etc. But he's gonna get a nasty surprise, coz I have a Me/N and intend to change my E/Mo to E/A, so he wont be getting his builds he wants, and the Monk is gonna be the way I find healing easy

Another of my friends who's pretty good at builds told me a month or so ago about a 'good' leader he had for an SF run. This "Good" leader kicked people out of the group if they had the wrong elite for a tank. Whilst I can understand a tank needs to do his job and tank, if someone has a tanking build that works for them, just coz you don't know about it doesn't mean you should assume its rubbish.

Basically what I'm saying is, play how you like, if you don't enjoy Echo Nuking, or can't get the hang of it, tell groups who insist you use it to go to hell

bitchbar player

bitchbar player

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

still lost

Guy In Real Life [GIRL]

Mo/

as you are also talking about SF, i assume you are going with a gear/ keg carrier in which case i go as glyph of renewall and take essence bond, so no energy problem but still the exhaustion.

kimahri

kimahri

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Defenders of the Blackblade [DotB]

E/

Elemental attunement can be nice if you do Echo Nuking using Archane Echo since you then use the same amount of energy as one Shower to do 2 Meteor Showers. Though ofcourse Glyph of Renewal is much nicer than Archane Echo...

thunderpower

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Europe

KiSS

Actually, when the "echo nuking" mania started, people used Arcane Echo, and not Echo. With arcane echo and glyps of lesser energy you can still be usefull, have low exhaustion.

The dumbest thing is the double echo nuker kidos. Using arcane echo with an energy managment skill is enough trouble if the mob decides they want to live and gang on the casters for a big hug. Echo + Arcane is = 0 energy, exhaust down to 0 energy.

If you keep a skill like flame burst in your skillbar, you can use that with Arcane echo if the mob gangs you.

Here is the best solution for using met shower with arcane:

Use glyps of lesser energy, right after use Arcane echo. Wait like 8-10 seconds and cast meteor shower. By the time you finished casting the first meteor shower, glyps of lesser should be recharged, or nearly recharged. Click glyps of lesser than the echoed met shower. This way you can have a pritty good energy managment, with min ehaustion.

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

I don't like being a full blown triple or quad echo nuker. It is very boring for my preference in playing and usually winds up as overkill.

I prefer to be more flexible and be able to dish out medium-high damage quickly and repeatedly. I do carry archane echo to use with meteor shower in places where there are some bosses, especially monk bosses, that might need interrupting.

Energy management and exhaustion are not a problem with a double attunement build.

Desbreko

Desbreko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

California

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

I've played my fire ele a lot and I've never been a big fan of casting double Meteor Showers. The only times I've really found it useful is for disrupting monk bosses, and there are much better ways to do that.

I think there's a bit of a misconception about just how uber Meteor Shower is. Sure, it does the most damage--but is it worth the cost of echoing it? After Searing Heat got a buff in the last balance pass I started playing around with it again and found I was more effective with it than I was with Arcane Echo. Looking at the numbers, I've been able to see why:

Meteor Shower is 3x119 for damage, so that's 357 total. Searing Heat is 5x37+42 (the 42 being from the three seconds of burning), so that's 227 total. Both cost 25 energy, but MS causes exhaustion and takes an extra 2 seconds to cast, so you're definitely paying for that extra damage.

The numbers for echo MS vs. MS+SH, then, look like this:

MS+MS: 3x119 + 3x119 = 714
MS+SH: 3x119 + 5x37+42 = 584

That's 130 more damage from an echoed Meteor Shower, but I find that a lot of the time, enemy mobs are able to escape at least one of the six meteors. While, on the other hand, Searing Heat only lasts five seconds instead of ten so I find enemies are almost always held within it for the complete duration. Factoring that in, the numbers are a lot closer:

MS+MS: 3x119 + 2x119 = 595
MS+SH: 3x119 + 5x37+42 = 584

That's only 11 damage less, and when you consider that 42 of Searing Heat's damage is degen and doesn't get reduced by armor like the rest, the MS+SH combo will probably even come out on top. So you've just done about the same amount of damage, in less time, and without as much exhaustion. Interesting, no?

But here's the real kicker: Since Searing Heat takes two seconds less time to cast, you have time for a Fireball on top of that while still staying within the same time frame as an echoed Meteor Shower. By then enemies are probably going to be scattering, so it probably won't hit all of them--but then again, you'll at least hit what you target, whereas the last of six meteors probably won't hit anything. So we now have:

MS+MS: 3x119 + 3x119 = 714
MS+SH+FB: 3x119 + 5x37+42 + 119 = 703

That combo is competitive even assuming that all six meteors from an echoed Meteor Shower connect, and it still doesn't cause as much exhaustion. As well, if you're using Archane Echo for the double Meteor Shower, it costs the same amount of energy; or if you're using Echo/Glyph of Renewal, it's only 5 more energy.

But that's not all. No, since you're not getting double exhaustion from two Meteor Showers, you can run Ether Prodigy without getting bogged down by too much exhaustion. That lets you spam Fireballs, Immolates, Rodgort's Invocations, or whatever without having to rely on an easily-stripped Elemental Attunement.

So, for the record, my fire ele build currently looks like this:

Fire Magic: 12+4
Energy Storage: 12+1

Fireball
Incendiary Bonds
Immolate
Rodgort's Invocation
Searing Heat
Meteor Shower
Ether Prodigy
Fire Attunement

I don't carry rez sig because that'd be one less doom spell.

torquemada

torquemada

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

guildless

I had similar experience. Bah, echo nuking sucks. There are much better & efficienf fire combos IMHO. If you really wanna do multiple showers, use glyph of renewal. If I'd echo anything, it would be Energy surge. Nice & clean.

Most people seem to think nuking=meteor shower. Well, it just isn't.

And your warriors need to "herd" the mobs. Most warriors who yell OMG NUKE NOOB when on <25% HP are clueless about it. I'm not about to spend 25nrg, exhaustion 60 sec cooldown spell just because someone's clueless about holding aggro or just plain ignorant.

However....when you have experienced tank on your team, you really don't need more than 1 shower per engagement. And don't forget my skillbar's not all meteor shower-related. Ele is not a meteor shower, neither is fire line.

koneko

Site Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2005

38??16′ N 140??52′ E

Mo/Me

Heh, I remember this thread.

I gave up using my ele completely - random groups are simply incompetent. "omg u noob u not ECHO NUKE??" /koneko is kicked from the group

What Desbreko listed is pretty close to what I used to use, minus Searing Heat (I haven't played since they buffed it) and Fire Attunement (I'm too lazy to make sure to hit EP then FA).

The Real Roy Keane

The Real Roy Keane

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Dublin, Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by koneko
I can see the argument for "echo nuking" in that you can throw out the big spells (Meteor Shower) quickly by using Arcane Echo/Echo/Glyph of Renewal or some odd combination of those. To me, though, that just screams "no energy management, you're useless after the first or second volley and have a load of exhaustion
Energy management isn't so essential in PvE, since you can control aggro.

torquemada

torquemada

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

guildless

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane
Energy management isn't so essential in PvE, since you can control aggro.
Yeh, but the trouble is (and that's why I never bother with echo nuking) most PUG's are clueless about PROPER aggro holding. That makes my shower plain inefficient compared to faster spells like fireball, searing, incendiary, etc.

For example: they do a proper aggro, a big mob is stuck on our 2 warrs. I ctrl+click meteor shower so they hold position for 5 secs. But...after 3 secs 1 tank decides to rush (not lower than 25% hp and monks are basically healing just 2 of em)...mobs go after him....shower wasted folks!! You wouldn't believe how often it happens!

SpeedyKQ

SpeedyKQ

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Me

I'm all for trying new things, but after experimenting with my ele quite a bit I didn't find any build as useful as the old echo nuker.

Meteor Shower is just a cut above every other ele spell in the game. Not only does it do more damage than anything else, but you get multiple, staggered knockdowns/interrupts too. I wish there was more balance, but there isn't.

I like Glyph of Renewal better than anything for the purpose of recasting MS, but you can only have one elite on your skillbar, and I want Elemental Attunement for energy management, so I stick with Arcane Echo.

It is interesting that Meteor Shower won't be in Factions. I'm really hoping that we get one other skill that is nearly as good as Metoer Shower so we can just have both on our skillbar and ignore the echo business.

coolsti

coolsti

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Denmark

GW PvE apparently has a definite problem that will most likely turn many a player away from this game at some point in time: 90% or so of the human players.

As soon as people find out that a particular build for a particular character in a particular PvE area works the best, then this becomes the only build that people will tolerate to play with. Stand around Tombs UW and try to get into a group as Ranger when you are not using a barrage/pet build!

And this is of course the case with Elementalists. If they are not echo Nukers, then no one has any use for them.

Ok, so great, if these character and party builds make the game easier, then why not use them? Well, because of the lack of freedom to choose among the many available skills, and because of the loss of diversity in the game.

The thing is, providing the players in the party play with any decent amount of tactics and intelligence, PvE is very easy no matter what the build and party compostion (ok, within reason of course). It doesn't take a b/p party to get through Tombs in a reasonable amount of time. Its far more fun to experience UW with a non-trapping team because you can get more places.

And why do people insist on fine tuning a party so that they can farm SF with only 5 in the party? Greens have been farmed so much that finding one or two less in a party of 6, 7 or 8 really doesn't make much difference anymore. Going out to SF with a larger party means not having to worry so much about that optimal party build, and so everyone can have some fun experimenting with their builds.

Maybe I am just ranting, but if I played this game with the 90% or so out there only interested in these optimal builds, ho hum, I would be bored out of this game by now.

torquemada

torquemada

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

guildless

Ill just sign your post, coolsti, and say nothing more.

frickett

frickett

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Shinigami Keys [SHIN]

R/Mo

I like to be creative with my builds also, I didnt even know what a Barrage/Pet build was until a couple of weeks ago, and my Ranger was my first character. I have a Warrior necro, and have never used a premade build, and havent used any for my mesmer/ele. But sometimes, I just want to do something easy, something automatic even. That is when I log in as my ranger and barrage a bunch of stuff.

antialias02

antialias02

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Eastern Iowa

Forsaken Wanderers [FW]

Me/E

My Mesmer forgoes echo nuking in favor altogether in favor of a fast-cast high-powered nuke build, using the likes of Desbreko's build... with a few changes.

Fast Cast: 12+4
Fire Magic: 12

Same skills, except...

Immolate->Res Sig (When I'm in a party)
Ether Renewal -> Elemental Attunement

I burn through things very quickly. Fast in true Mesmer fashion, but still quite powerful.

Elvarg

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

If people in a PUG want an echo nuker, what stops from saying you are an echo nuker, even if you arent? Once you get in, if you are actually any good with your build they will quickly stop caring about HOW you play as long as the results are in.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

I often end up running echo nuker in FoW as no one will take anything else. I usually switch out glyph of renewal for glyph of energy, which is probably the most reliable energy management skill there is. It's 20 energy every 15 seconds if used right, and fights exhaustion. Double attunements can be more efficient, but I would say they get stripped 50-60% of the time leaving you standing around like an idiot. Ether prodigy can likewise be stripped, causes exhaustion which is enough of a pain already, and loves to blow up in your face at a bad time. Ether renewal falls over dead as soon as a single one of your 4 enchantments gets stripped, or you get interrupted while using your spam spell.

At any rate, I find that energy management is as important in PvE as in PvP. Most of the time groups will charge in well before you are recharged. A sustainable nuker beats a one-shot echo nuker any day. I routinely dedicate 3-4 skills solely to energy management, and rest assured I am NEVER the one constantly sitting around beggin for a shot of BIP.

Desbreko

Desbreko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

California

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

Quote:
Originally Posted by antialias02
My Mesmer forgoes echo nuking in favor altogether in favor of a fast-cast high-powered nuke build, using the likes of Desbreko's build... with a few changes.

Fast Cast: 12+4
Fire Magic: 12

Same skills, except...

Immolate->Res Sig (When I'm in a party)
Ether Renewal -> Elemental Attunement

I burn through things very quickly. Fast in true Mesmer fashion, but still quite powerful.
That sounds like a fun build but I'm curious as to how you get by without Energy Storage. Ether Renewal only gives 1 energy per enchantment at 0 attribute level, doesn't it? With a 7 second duration and 30 second recharge it doesn't seem like it would be enough to keep you going very long. Unless maybe you could get a monk to stack some enchantments on you during its duration.

Cymboric Treewalker

Cymboric Treewalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Imperial Palace - Cantha

[SFK] Sacred Forge Knights (founder)

Me/Mo

I run a Me/ that has been using /E for a while... I don't nuke ... I outlast the opponent and never run out of energy.

studentochaos

studentochaos

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

Seeking atm

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warskull
Firestorm and Meteor Shower are high damage skills. PvE players are attracted to them because they make big numbers appear. Remember most players can't put together a halfway decent build to save their life. You'll find tons of players running weak builds in PvE (like all the Mo/W healing monks.)
/agreed
Strict PvE play does not challenge the player to improve so they have weak builds that they won't let go of (reguardless of logic).

Echo nuker is loved for its animation IMO. Meteor Shower has a big flashy animation that really seems like a lot is going on. Even if it isn't the best thing you could have done, the other party members are reassured all will go well because what happened looked so impressive.

Y.T.

Y.T.

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by koneko
I am having a difficult time finding groups in the most common farming areas (Ruins of the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, Sorrow's Furnace, et cetera) with my ele since I don't run with a "zomgzorz echo nooker of ownagezorz," which everybody seems to want.


(Search is broken still. Boo.)
well what can i say - if u think that all carpet bombers are ignorant rude kids that use this kind of language u're quite ignorant urself srry.
the fact that u're not sure how to manage ur enrgry while doing heavy damage dosnt nessesary mean that ppl who know how to do it deserve unfair comments.
if u need help with ur builds u can use search button - there are lots of nice builds posted.
as for complains that non-fire eles cant get into the teams - well thats old and it was discussed many many times...

personaly i NEVER accept random eles in teams. there are too many eles who dont know how to avoid aggroing, why they cant tank with fire nuker build, what spells break aggro and how they can survive without asking for BiP every minute... its just too boring to teach them - if we dont have guildies on we'll go without eles.
as for SF - well u just dont need eles there, simple as that. alot of ppl are farming SF and farmers have to be able to kill all bosses in min time with min players in party... 5-ppl is max team size but 3-ppl builds are nice as well. unfortunately theres no place for ele in such builds and u have to blame a-net for tweaking eles skills - not players who run optimal for this are builds...

i understand ur disappointment but what u said ist fair for alot of good carpet bombers unless u just wanted to start another flaming thread

P.S. dont take me wrong i'm not trying to say that all eles have to run echo-met.storm builds... but this build is popular and useful for some areas, plus alot of ppl prefer to know whom they're inviting in their teams - and evrybdy knows what 'echo nuker' means, just like air spiker, earth spiker/warder.... if u want to fo SF quests for exp u can find group for it in warcamp1 in less than 10 min, if u want heavy farming - thats a diff question

Alleji

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Here's my echo nuker build:

Fireball
Rodgort's
Meteor Shower
Meteor
Fire Attunement
Res
Arcane Echo
Glyph of Energy

IMO glyph is a much, much better energy management when exhaustion spells are involved. Glyph of renewal/echo builds are just laughable. After overkilling one group they say "wait plz i'm exhausted down to 30"

Count to Potato

Count to Potato

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Imagination Land

I Swear She Was Eighteen [Gwen]

W/

I do energy management echo nuker:

Ele attunment

Fire attunment Both get you 80% energy back and the 20% left is back from energy regenen

then i echo nuke and so never loose energy