Best secondary class for AoE Elementalist?
Liquidus
Hi, I was wondering on what secondary class would be the best for a AoE Elementalist. (AoE is "area of effect", its those fire spells that do damage to things around you.) I plan to use this character in PvE and PvP but I want to make the choice that would be most effective in PvP. I was thinking about either a monk, memsmer, or ranger but its hard to tell how useful they would be at level 20 and I have to choose now because you can't get a secondary class later. Memsmers would get me energy stealing abilites, monks would allow me to heal, and ranger would get me a pet. Any thoughts of what you think is best? I was thinking, would a pet even be helpful in PvP?
Loralaiy
Mesmer. Their energy stealing abilities will be of far more use than a ranger pet or healing yourself. You'll be energy tight, and besides you shouldn't have time to heal yourself while trying to focus fire when doing GvG.
Talus
I'm an Ele/Mes and the only mesmer skill I use is Energy Tap.
I'm currently maxxed out in fire magic so I'm trying to strike a balance between Energy Storage and Inspiration Magic.
I'm tempted to just not use ANY Mesmer skills and see if Fire Attunement is good enough for energy management. You'd have to put a lot of attribute points into Inspiration to make the 3 second cast with a 20 second refresh worth the trouble.
e.g. a maxxed inspiration only gives you 13 energy per cast, and the cast costs you 5 (but you'll regen some during the 3 second casting time).
With Energy Drain, you'd only get 18 max.
If anybody else has a good Mesmer spell that works well, please post. I have not really explored many of my Mesmer skills at all
I'm currently maxxed out in fire magic so I'm trying to strike a balance between Energy Storage and Inspiration Magic.
I'm tempted to just not use ANY Mesmer skills and see if Fire Attunement is good enough for energy management. You'd have to put a lot of attribute points into Inspiration to make the 3 second cast with a 20 second refresh worth the trouble.
e.g. a maxxed inspiration only gives you 13 energy per cast, and the cast costs you 5 (but you'll regen some during the 3 second casting time).
With Energy Drain, you'd only get 18 max.
If anybody else has a good Mesmer spell that works well, please post. I have not really explored many of my Mesmer skills at all
Desferous
I keep wondering for pvp shouldn't you do mesmer/elementalist? Faster casting and still have the energy stealing? What are the cons to doing this? I heard, but don't know, the mana pool becomes less of a problem at higher lvls?
Talus
Dunno really. I guess with a smaller mana pool combined with fast casting, you'd be outta energy in no time?
As a primary ele, you can always try to find a wand that improves casting speed.
As a primary ele, you can always try to find a wand that improves casting speed.
Zeru
Just keep in mind that fire magic is not very good in pvp. It's fine in pve cause the monsters don't move out of the aoe but humans will.
Wired
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeru
Just keep in mind that fire magic is not very good in pvp. It's fine in pve cause the monsters don't move out of the aoe but humans will.
ya, as soon as people see meteors or a firestorm they instantly move. I find that air magic's more effective in PvP (although I rarely play pvp atm so I could be totally wrong on that one)
Ensign
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desferous
I keep wondering for pvp shouldn't you do mesmer/elementalist? Faster casting and still have the energy stealing?
No, you shouldn't. Losing out on the hat and runes cuts too much into your damage - you need at least 10 fast casting just to break even on damage with the primary elementalist, and even then your energy and cooldown concerns are much greater. This might be a marginally interesting debate with Fast Casting at 14-16, but then you have zero room for any other attributes.
If you want to nuke, use a primary Elementalist. They're just plain better.
Peace,
-CxE
If you want to nuke, use a primary Elementalist. They're just plain better.
Peace,
-CxE
Virtuoso
I'd go with Necro as they have some nice AoE debuffs that can come in handy and make you more than just a pure damage character. I understand that is mainly what Elementalists are for, I just feel like I bring so much more to the table when I am packing some decent AoE curses or Well of Bloods.
-Virt
-Virt
Liquidus
Thanks for the replies, I havn't been able to try pvp yet because i'm still in pre-searing asaclon. Is it true that AoE elementalists aren't very effective in pvp? Would my opponents just walk out of the way? If thats true, I might think about making a air elementalist instead...
About the mesmer's energy stealing skills, it dones't seem like they can get me enough energy to be worth it.
Channeling - Enchantment Spell
For 8-46 seconds, whenever you cast a spell, you steal 1 Energy from each nearby foe. (This seems made for pve because there won't be that many people in pvp)
Energy Tap - Spell
Steal 8-13 Energy from target foe. (With a 5 mana cost and 3 second cast time, is this even worth it?)
Power Drain - Spell
If target foe is casting a spell, the spell is interrupted and you gain 1-25 Energy. (This actually looks pretty good and would make a good anti-caster)
About the mesmer's energy stealing skills, it dones't seem like they can get me enough energy to be worth it.
Channeling - Enchantment Spell
For 8-46 seconds, whenever you cast a spell, you steal 1 Energy from each nearby foe. (This seems made for pve because there won't be that many people in pvp)
Energy Tap - Spell
Steal 8-13 Energy from target foe. (With a 5 mana cost and 3 second cast time, is this even worth it?)
Power Drain - Spell
If target foe is casting a spell, the spell is interrupted and you gain 1-25 Energy. (This actually looks pretty good and would make a good anti-caster)
Loralaiy
Most players will move out of the way. But some AoE such as Meteor Swarm knock 'em down, and is insanely ultimate when in King of the Hill maps. Air elementalists are very nice to have, with all their armor penetration and such. Some groups specifically search for air elementalists over fire when going into tombs.
Channeling isn't worth it. Don't even bother, the AoE range is not large enough to consider.
Energy Tap is good, the cast time is not. Keep in mind, although your mana pool is huge as an elementalist, some class's are not. Many monks, mesmers, rangers, necromancers only have around 40-50, and warriors have even less.
Power Drain is okay. Personally, I use Power Spike. As an AoE elementalist though, casting big spells will make you miss the chance for an interrupt. Personally playing with Power Spike, I only find it useful to interrupt ressurects. Generally when you focus fire a monk, they're either running with backfire on and not casting or using near instant cast spells that are very hard to interrupt.
I myself use a combination of Arcane Echo and Energy Drain. Energy Drain is a very short cast time, and with 12 inspiration it drains 18 energy. Since with Arcane echo I'm able to cast it twice, I've nearly took out the monk's entire mana pool. Energy Tap finishes, but hey -- I'm talking about mezzing here! You might not want to use Energy Drain, then again you may. 18 energy almost instantly, but it uses your elite slot.
Channeling isn't worth it. Don't even bother, the AoE range is not large enough to consider.
Energy Tap is good, the cast time is not. Keep in mind, although your mana pool is huge as an elementalist, some class's are not. Many monks, mesmers, rangers, necromancers only have around 40-50, and warriors have even less.
Power Drain is okay. Personally, I use Power Spike. As an AoE elementalist though, casting big spells will make you miss the chance for an interrupt. Personally playing with Power Spike, I only find it useful to interrupt ressurects. Generally when you focus fire a monk, they're either running with backfire on and not casting or using near instant cast spells that are very hard to interrupt.
I myself use a combination of Arcane Echo and Energy Drain. Energy Drain is a very short cast time, and with 12 inspiration it drains 18 energy. Since with Arcane echo I'm able to cast it twice, I've nearly took out the monk's entire mana pool. Energy Tap finishes, but hey -- I'm talking about mezzing here! You might not want to use Energy Drain, then again you may. 18 energy almost instantly, but it uses your elite slot.
Steel Circle
I'm an Ele/Mon at level 16. This is what I've experienced.
PVE:
I think that monk is a great secondary for pve because although the healing doesn't work as well as a primary monk, resurrection and two healing spells really help augment my lifespan, without reducing my fire magic capabilities. I am putting more energy into the healing than I perhaps should, but if I don't have some damage mitigation, the mobs generally swarm and kill. Groups also love it.
I'm using fire primary, as are most people, because the fire spells do far more damage per cast than any other element until you get all the skills. Water is great, but throwing an ice hold on a foe that is negated when fire damage is taken by that foe.. well, it stinks. Lightning looks really cool, but I'm level 16 and still don't have the better spells.
I'd love to try another element, but in pve, fire just seems to work best, even though I'm usually partial to single target blasting styles. I can't complain about dropping a crowd of mobs with three spells though... as long as I have a shield in between, anyway.
The monk secondary isn't flashy, but like the war/mon, I think that it adds a higher degree of survivability to your group than damage dealing alone. With el/mo, I get attacks and support abilities, and my fire attribute is still 10. I just pick what I use mission to mission and judge the group's capabilities before I go out. A high level warrior means that I use Live Vicariously, gain 4ish health every time someone attacks. It slows energy regen, but it's worth it if I live till the next fight. Beware groups that run from fight to fight without letting you regen. Eventually you and the monk will be out of juice, and you'll die.
In place of monk subclass, I'd suggest earth magic. Some casters like using aoe based at their location, and then take Ward Against Foe (slows all foes in area by 50%) and use other earth magics to shield themselves. I find I live longer if I only use ranged attacks.
PVP:
I've played some pvp, and yes, generally the other group is smart enough to just move. You do some damage, but not enough to kill. PVP is constantly changing, in my opinion, as the players are getting more experienced and on top of things. Often I'm their first target after I've zapped them a few times, and I go down or run after they spot me.
I don't do PVP as much as PVE, but I might venture that water or air might be better for that. However, as I said earlier, water and air are much harder to do in PVE in the higher levels.
PVP really depends on how you select your targets, what order you use your spells, tactics, your supports, and your group. I may get flamed for this, but I don't think it really matters what your subclass is for PVP- I've seen literally EVERY class surprise me with being devasting in PVP, when played well. And I've died miserably trying to learn to use a new class. Pick what you'll enjoy, and hope for the best. Specialize a little, but figure out slightly varied setups to be versatile to the mission. I'd suggest elementalist primary, though, because the extra juice is really nice. I usually don't need more than 70-80 energy per PVE battle- I don't know how I could have enough in PVP.
Good luck, and have fun. Elementalist is my favourite class so far. If you like dealing lots of damage, but being kinda papery, this is it for you. I've toyed with Ranger for it's opponent hobbling abilities, and Mesmer for the same, but it's really probably tactics based regardless in that department.
My very long two cents. Hope it helps.
PVE:
I think that monk is a great secondary for pve because although the healing doesn't work as well as a primary monk, resurrection and two healing spells really help augment my lifespan, without reducing my fire magic capabilities. I am putting more energy into the healing than I perhaps should, but if I don't have some damage mitigation, the mobs generally swarm and kill. Groups also love it.
I'm using fire primary, as are most people, because the fire spells do far more damage per cast than any other element until you get all the skills. Water is great, but throwing an ice hold on a foe that is negated when fire damage is taken by that foe.. well, it stinks. Lightning looks really cool, but I'm level 16 and still don't have the better spells.
I'd love to try another element, but in pve, fire just seems to work best, even though I'm usually partial to single target blasting styles. I can't complain about dropping a crowd of mobs with three spells though... as long as I have a shield in between, anyway.
The monk secondary isn't flashy, but like the war/mon, I think that it adds a higher degree of survivability to your group than damage dealing alone. With el/mo, I get attacks and support abilities, and my fire attribute is still 10. I just pick what I use mission to mission and judge the group's capabilities before I go out. A high level warrior means that I use Live Vicariously, gain 4ish health every time someone attacks. It slows energy regen, but it's worth it if I live till the next fight. Beware groups that run from fight to fight without letting you regen. Eventually you and the monk will be out of juice, and you'll die.
In place of monk subclass, I'd suggest earth magic. Some casters like using aoe based at their location, and then take Ward Against Foe (slows all foes in area by 50%) and use other earth magics to shield themselves. I find I live longer if I only use ranged attacks.
PVP:
I've played some pvp, and yes, generally the other group is smart enough to just move. You do some damage, but not enough to kill. PVP is constantly changing, in my opinion, as the players are getting more experienced and on top of things. Often I'm their first target after I've zapped them a few times, and I go down or run after they spot me.
I don't do PVP as much as PVE, but I might venture that water or air might be better for that. However, as I said earlier, water and air are much harder to do in PVE in the higher levels.
PVP really depends on how you select your targets, what order you use your spells, tactics, your supports, and your group. I may get flamed for this, but I don't think it really matters what your subclass is for PVP- I've seen literally EVERY class surprise me with being devasting in PVP, when played well. And I've died miserably trying to learn to use a new class. Pick what you'll enjoy, and hope for the best. Specialize a little, but figure out slightly varied setups to be versatile to the mission. I'd suggest elementalist primary, though, because the extra juice is really nice. I usually don't need more than 70-80 energy per PVE battle- I don't know how I could have enough in PVP.
Good luck, and have fun. Elementalist is my favourite class so far. If you like dealing lots of damage, but being kinda papery, this is it for you. I've toyed with Ranger for it's opponent hobbling abilities, and Mesmer for the same, but it's really probably tactics based regardless in that department.
My very long two cents. Hope it helps.