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Aria

Sig Fairy

Join Date: Feb 2005

Once upon a time..

23 Mar 2005 at 04:58 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by William the Silent

Back to what Bunny Master was saying, a great way I found to take out monks with an e/me strat if you're full on energy is to first cast firestorm, then cast phantom pain. Then since your energy rebuilds while youre "charging" phantom pain you have enough left for a conjure phantasm. That should wipe out a monk in that order if you're a decently leveled e/me with stacked attributes in proper e/me areas.

I'm sorry..

but there's no way that you can wipe out a decent monk in a competent team with that method. I'll let the experts have the final say, but I doubt that you can even take out one competent monk with that particular strategy. Throw on healing breeze, and then use the regular healing spells.. assuming no other disruptions/damage are added.

And well.. as for fire storm.. any non-oblivious monk (sometimes I don't count in this category, embarassingly) can just step out of range as soon as fire storm starts..

William the Silent

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

Verona, Wisconsin

The Consulate, [Ttgr]

E/

23 Mar 2005 at 05:17 - 42

You are absolutely right in saying it wouldn't wipe out a competent monk with NO outside interference. Usually in a battle my team's main goal is to WIPE OUT THAT MONK! first so usually the proper personnel gang up on the monk to take him or her out immediately. My post was meant to be a suggested strat for the e/me component of a group taking out a monk (I have to agree with others that it can be near impossible to take out a decent monk one on one) Sorry for my incoherent explanation.

And also to further clarify, this is just MY strat for assisting in the demise of a monk and I'm sure there are plenty of others out there. This is just a method that I have had success with so I though I would share it with other players just so we can continue to feed off of each others ideas because that makes everyone a better player.

Beelzebubba

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Eyes of the Seer [Seer]

N/Me

23 Mar 2005 at 06:04 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

Get healing signet

I must have missed that last month. Where do you get that? If it was added this month, then that would be why I missed it, as I didn't start a new character this month.

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

And I often got questions like How you get such a good pet already? and what do you mean I cant get a belt or 2nd profession now? you mean I have to start all over again?

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe they rectified this situation this month by adding NPC's around the Sanitarium area to give you the secondary skills.
I started at the Sanitarium this month, due to having ended last month running people back and forth to the Census, and immediately saw a Mesmer NPC standing there with an exclamation above his head. When I talked to him I got a second reward for having completed the mesmer secondary quest last month. I actually got a second reward for having a pet as well, the Ranger reward for charming a pet, although this was out in the field and not at the Sanitarium. I had a Lynx at the time, but it gave it to me anyway.

BunnyMaster

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Holland

Army of Fairies

R/N

23 Mar 2005 at 18:08 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria

I'm sorry..

but there's no way that you can wipe out a decent monk in a competent team with that method.

I would have to agree with you (darn, stupid game should've been released now, so we test all this theorycrafting

) but it would keep him busy. The monk would need to focus on his own healing/hex-shattering, instead of healing his team. If I can bother him long enough for my team to take out his/her team, then my job is done.

Aria

Sig Fairy

Join Date: Feb 2005

Once upon a time..

23 Mar 2005 at 18:24 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunnyMaster

I would have to agree with you (darn, stupid game should've been released now, so we test all this theorycrafting

) but it would keep him busy. The monk would need to focus on his own healing/hex-shattering, instead of healing his team. If I can bother him long enough for my team to take out his/her team, then my job is done.

Well, that's the thing. If you guys want to take it into the context of a full team..

For the individual healer, I'm suspecting that healing breeze takes out a huge chunk of the DOT damage. Since healing breeze has a relatively fast recharge timer, I can throw it on myself and not worry about not having it later. In addition, I wouldn't need to keep as close an eye on my health bar. Actually, like people have said in a couple of other forums, I notice my own health bar the least, for some strange reason. You're also forgetting that most teams would have at least one additional healer to back up whichever healer is being attacked. It's going to take much more than a couple of DOTs and fire storm.. which is one of the most easily evadable skills.

Well.. look at this this way. I almost never ever notice anything such as conjure phantasm. I DO notice backfire, migraine, and diversion being stacked on me. As I'm a monk, my personal, relatively narrow attention span is entirely captured by the team health bars. If I don't remember being especially annoyed at my health bar turning pink.. I tend to take that as a tentative, but still present indication that it really doesn't hurt me much at all.

Sure, used in conjunction with every disruption as well as the focused attention of the team, it definitely helps. But then, again, that is the same exact thing for every other focused attack on one person called by your team. It's a damage method.. and a DOT at that, but nothing about it makes it stick out in particular.

mostro

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Me/E

23 Mar 2005 at 18:27 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by William the Silent

Back to what Bunny Master was saying, a great way I found to take out monks with an e/me strat if you're full on energy is to first cast firestorm, then cast phantom pain. Then since your energy rebuilds while youre "charging" phantom pain you have enough left for a conjure phantasm. That should wipe out a monk in that order if you're a decently leveled e/me with stacked attributes in proper e/me areas.

I believe it is more effective to disrupt a monk and take away his/her energy than trying to DOT him to death. You don't actually need to kill the monk first, just prevent him from doing his job.

Also in a good team, someone will carry hex removal, and your DOTs will get erased the second it landed. On a gvg battle, I was trying to use life transfer and scourge healing on an enemy monk and they were removed within 2 seconds

mostro

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Me/E

23 Mar 2005 at 18:31 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria

It's going to take much more than a couple of DOTs and fire storm.. which is one of the most easily evadable skills.

Correct. My suggestion would be to let mesmers handle the monks and let the eles do the damage

Aria

Sig Fairy

Join Date: Feb 2005

Once upon a time..

23 Mar 2005 at 18:34 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostro

Correct. My suggestion would be to let mesmers handle the monks and let the eles do the damage

WHAT? who dare suggest such a thing? Nonono, all you budding mesmers out there.. DOTs are your friends.. *shifty glances*

EDIT: Ok ok fine, I've finally decided to stop being lazy (for an hour), and actually look up some numbers.

Conjure phantasm stacked with Phantom pain, at the most, gives a health degeneration of 8 for around 10 seconds. Healing breeze gives a health regeneration of +8 for 10 seconds. Energy cost of healing breeze is 10, and recharge time is 2 seconds -- hardly long.

Conjure phantasm, on the other hand, costs 10 energy, with a 5 sec recharge. Phantom pain is also 10 energy, but with a 15 second recharge cost.

So basically.. you lose more than you gain.. You also have to take into account the fact that for those 15 min that phantom pain is recharging, that means one more skill on your skill bar that is idling.. whereas another skill/spell might have actually done much more than.. well.. just forcing the monk to use 10 energy while you lose 20, and two skill spots.

BunnyMaster

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Holland

Army of Fairies

R/N

23 Mar 2005 at 18:39 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria

WHAT? who dare suggest such a thing? Nonono, all you budding mesmers out there.. DOTs are your friends.. *shifty glances*

So if I wanted to be a decent Mesmer, I would have to use only the disrupt / block / drain - skills on a Monk?

*looks at Aria*

Except when fighting Aria of course, then I'll use my wand to hit her and yell badly pronounced German curses at her

Aria

Sig Fairy

Join Date: Feb 2005

Once upon a time..

23 Mar 2005 at 18:45 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunnyMaster

So if I wanted to be a decent Mesmer, I would have to use only the disrupt / block / drain - skills on a Monk?

*looks at Aria*

Except when fighting Aria of course, then I'll use my wand to hit her and yell badly pronounced German curses at her

Well, you might want to ask mostro or some other mesmer, or a monk with way experience fighting mesmers (the famous Freyas, for one

). But I did edit my post before yours, so.. take a look at that if you want some concrete numbers, especially in relation to phantom pain + conjure phantasm in particular.

But yes, most monk killers focus on disrupting and energy drain. Anyone care to take this on?

mostro

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Me/E

23 Mar 2005 at 19:38 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunnyMaster

So if I wanted to be a decent Mesmer, I would have to use only the disrupt / block / drain - skills on a Monk?

*looks at Aria*

Except when fighting Aria of course, then I'll use my wand to hit her and yell badly pronounced German curses at her

BunnyMaster, here is a link to a good (if somewhat lengthy) discusssion regarding mesmer skills.

mesmer skill discussion

If you are playing a mesmer, you owe it to yourself to check the thread out. Be aware that some skills have been changed on the last BWE, but it should provide a good read nonetheless.

BunnyMaster

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Holland

Army of Fairies

R/N

23 Mar 2005 at 20:00 - 52

Waaaaah!!!!!!

So much guides/tips/articles/build to read in so little time....
Tx Mostro, it sure gave me some good things to think about.

William the Silent

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

Verona, Wisconsin

The Consulate, [Ttgr]

E/

24 Mar 2005 at 06:49 - 53

I'm getting the feeling no one has read my second clarification post

. What I'm trying to say is, I'll just unleash the series of stuff I posted earlier and then move on to taking out the non-healers (obviously it's not going to kill the healer assuming he or she is fairly competent but it at least forces some counter-action by the healer which is my goal). After that I leave the healer fighting up to the mesmer primaries.

So once again to clarify, what I have used against monks I've found to be effective in coordination with the mesmer primaries. This is DEFINITELY not a one on one strategy to use on a monk. All I want taken out of this is that it HAS been effective in completing my objectives throughout team battles and results is what I'm concerned with so I use this strat right now as a basis for team battles and I am sure in the future I will continue to tweak it to maximize e/me "output" if you will.

mostro

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Me/E

24 Mar 2005 at 14:53 - 54

You mean about casting firestorm followed by phantom pain and then conjure phantasm?

There are more than one way to nail a monk to the wall. But if you must use an AOE spell, you'd be better off using chaos storm than firestorm. And like Aria said, phantom pain+conjure phantasm can be easily countered by casting healing breeze.

My opinion is that a mesmer is better off using disruption/energy denial/skill locking than using their DOTs. DOTs in general are not that good because you want to frontload the damage and kill the enemy asap.

Lord Kinetic

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

Essex, England

24 Mar 2005 at 14:58 - 55

Question: What is the better way of killing a Monk, AOE's such as inferno and Fire storm etc. or melee attack using help of Power Strike and Flurry etc.

Aria

Sig Fairy

Join Date: Feb 2005

Once upon a time..

24 Mar 2005 at 18:02 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Kinetic

Question: What is the better way of killing a Monk, AOE's such as inferno and Fire storm etc. or melee attack using help of Power Strike and Flurry etc.

The particular problem with AOEs such as fire storm is that for maximum damage, you're hoping that the target stays in one place. This will work if the party simply HAS to be clumped together in a certain place, but most of the time, the minute fire storm starts, people will just run out of range, and the rest of the potential damage is wasted.

So, unless you're certain that the person isn't going to move anytime soon, you might want to use an AOE like inferno which deals all of its damage instantly. Of course, with inferno, you have to be next to the person.. so make sure that you're close enough.

William the Silent

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

Verona, Wisconsin

The Consulate, [Ttgr]

E/

24 Mar 2005 at 21:26 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostro

You mean about casting firestorm followed by phantom pain and then conjure phantasm?

There are more than one way to nail a monk to the wall. But if you must use an AOE spell, you'd be better off using chaos storm than firestorm. And like Aria said, phantom pain+conjure phantasm can be easily countered by casting healing breeze.

My opinion is that a mesmer is better off using disruption/energy denial/skill locking than using their DOTs. DOTs in general are not that good because you want to frontload the damage and kill the enemy asap.

Well to be picky I casted phantom pain before conjure phantasm because then you regain some energy as phantom pain charges before you cast conjure phantasm.

Though my e/me strat against monks has been helpful according to mesmers I've played with (probably 'cause they're just good) it by no means is perfect so I'm always looking at different methods in my pvp or gvg battleplans.

Badenstein

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ohio

25 Mar 2005 at 03:57 - 58

Right now the game is still young in the development of strategy and counter strategy. In a few months, the Monk thing or the War/Monk thing will be lessened. Already people are using and discovering good tactics to counter the monk. I am still learning about being a Mesmer, but the choices of interrupt and power stealing seem right now the best for the Mesmer, but I lean toward interruption. I feel the guide on this site will be a very fundamental guide on being a good Mesmer. Warrior Monks are the easy early choice mostly because of the many people who relied on pre-mades to get into PvP and GvG. As people get characters to 20 I am sure we'll see the balance of power shift.

BTW Good Site.

Virtuoso

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

25 Mar 2005 at 05:40 - 59

I was regularly taking on 2 War/Mo at the same time and killing both of them. It's not impossible, or difficult for that matter.

-Virt

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

25 Mar 2005 at 06:08 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

If you just leveled up to lv 3 and joined the academy right away. HUGE MISTAKE!!!

Couple of things to do. MUST really...

Get 2nd profession...

Get additional skills with 2nd profession

Get Belt

Get healing signet

Get resurrection signet

If ranger get pet EARLY so it levels up with you. Stalker, Warthog, Moa bird, Snow Wolf. (Regular Wolf , or Bear MAYBE SOMEDAY!!!!)

Level up in the northlands (Two Player Party Required)

There are level 8 charr in there. so I use the logic once you can do this level with little problems. your ready to go to the academy. I was level 8 before I went and was very happy post searing with my performance and ability to finish quests / missions... And I often got questions like How you get such a good pet already? and what do you mean I cant get a belt or 2nd profession now? you mean I have to start all over again? D'oh!! sorry try exploring a little first next time...

Ingram of Haz

Oh PS: In the previous beta weekends if you go into the academy and played a Pvp battle then logout and you could continue to be in pre searing. Not this time. you are REQUIRED to go to post searing and it will not let you back. so just don't do it till your ready. I kinda wish we could have a practice arena without going to the academy. I want to keep one character in the past for training my buddies when they come to the game. and for general recruiting purposes. I also wish I could go to my guild hall from pre searing, but that is VERY unlikly!!! One could only wish... Hey maybe a small tavern or something could be used in ascalon for guilds?

I really don't see the importance of getting Resurection Signet while you're still in the Kingdom of Ascalon. I wandered through the catacombs for quite some time and I couldn't figure out how to get it so when we were both around level 7 or 8, we went to the Academy. We breezed through the PvP part with random allies as well as clearing the cave of trogs or whatever they were called. Then we got to post-searing and I bought the Res Signet.

As for the belt pouch, there is a collector somewhere in the post-seared world that will give you one just incase you missed it earlier. But it's better to get it early on because it's a lot easier to track down skale fins than whatever he was collecting.

The other things I do agree with however.

William the Silent

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2005

Verona, Wisconsin

The Consulate, [Ttgr]

E/

26 Mar 2005 at 06:44 - 61

I definitely think spending more time in the pre-seared world is a much better idea but I'm going to save that strategy for the actual release. The only reason I wouldn't spend as much time in the pre-seared world is obviously because of the time constraints. I don't have a gross abundance of free time so I just like playing through the missions and the pvp/gvg stuff. I am definitely going to take it slow with the actual release though because I want everything to go the right way with my char.