Assassins get Double-Strike?

Ok, I just heard about this. Is Double-Strike an Assassin-Only ability, or is it available to anyone with a pair of daggers? If it is an Assassin-Only ability, can they do it with other weapons, such as a sword, or is it only available to them if they're wielding daggers? Also, how do you calculate the chance for a Double-Strike to occur? And what exactly happens when a Double-Strike takes place? Do you just attack twice at the same time or what?

I'm just curious. Also, search is still down. And the Google Search just gave me threads about Necro/Warriors.

Double strike is linked to dagger mastery.

When you double-strike you attack twice very quickly, not at the same time. It really does attack twice in the animation, so no need to worry about that.

arent they a type of attack in dagger mastery? that should be available to anyone with daggermastery

From this, I can determine that assassins can not perform a double-strike with swords, axes, bows, hammers, wands, and staves.

Questions still left up in the air:

1. If you have 0 dagger mastery, is there still a chance for a double-strike? (Can other classes wielding daggers perform a double-strike?)

2. How much of a chance for double-strike is there at 12 dagger mastery? 16 dagger mastery? (How exactly to you determine the percent chance for a double strike?)

3. What happens when a double-strike occurs?

Scratch question #3 on the post above.

Dagger Mastery gives you a 2% chance per attribute level to double-strike.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about dual-strike skills. I'm talking about "Double-Strike", as in the random ability that was introduced during the preview weekend that activates in a similar fashion as a critical hit.

Ok, thanks. I think that answers everything then.

Heh, i'm definately making a 16 dagger mastery Assassin once the expansion comes out. 32% double strike rules you all!

hehe, I wonder if it's possible to get critical hits while you're double-striking...

oh, and don't forget that elite skill in the Critical hits attibute that increases your chance for a double strike by 20%....

52% chance of double strike!

Wow, I wonder if it's possibe to trigger a double-strike during a double-strike.

ROFL... =D

Do a Double Strike when you're doing a Double Strke???

Just exactly how would that work?

lets say...DS 1-1 does DS again, and DS1-2 does DS again...ROFL

But really, I doublt that ANET would allow this kinda major bug flow THAT easilly through...

They're smarter than that, or that assasin would be pawnage against all other classes, lol.

By the way, can you guys tell me the Critical Strike formula? I'm pretty sure it's pts into Critical Strike.

No one really knows the critical hit rates, but it's widely agreed that with a weapon attribute of 12 with two people of the same level the critical hit rate is roughly 20%. Each attribute level in critical strikes adds 1% to this number.

So whats the average damage of a dagger ?

7-17 (base damage) + 20% (customized) + 15% (bonus damage boost) + X% (critical hit percentage) + Y% (Double Strike percentage) x Attack Speed = dagger DPS. In other words, same calculation people make for any other weapon, plus the Double Strike percentage :-P. And don't forget to factor in critical hit chances on the extra Double Strike hits! XP

Also interesting is how double striking and critical striking will interacting. With 16 in a weapon attribute you have a roughly 23% chance of landing a critical, toss in 9-10 of critical striking and you have around a 30% chance of landing crits and a 32% chance of landing double strikes.

ive made a as/r with double strike+critical+bleeding+poison, with some interrupts he was very good, but a warrior is still much stronger from the dmg.

well if u add to a take a vampiric dagger+ add a vampiric health ( anet didnt unlocked the healts then) the dmg would be +3 healt +
5 health?

They gave you pre-made weapons. You can't add another vampiric to them.

in a nutshell they're great for spam attacks, breaking through reversal of fortune spam (small multiple hits, not big), making terrific use of any buffs that increase attack damage that give you a +X rather than a +%, certain combinations and mods would seem almost exploitive (zealous, vampric, etc) couple with even further speed up.

to the flip side, empathy, ss, spirit shackles and other things that make your attack rate work against you, anything that reduces damage by X rather than a % (warrior dmg reduction, some monk buffs, etc) and anything that returns damage to the attacker (warrior and ranger stance, some monk skills to be considered) will do more to crimp the assassin

Only problems really happen is when you face off against things like a ritualist with union, is that the assasin effectivly does no damage until the spirit dies. Other things like shielding hands or mark of protection are more of a nuicance, because assasins have a way to deal with enchantments and enchantment stacks.

Ok, I wrote this for a different thread, but it's relevant here (original thread was on the posibilities of combining Illusionary Weaponry with daggers. Conclusion there was that it wasn't all that worth it becuase of the requirement of spending attribute points in dagger mastery):

Double Strike is a very valuable addition to the dagger, as it is basically a way to increase the attack speed while requiring a sacrifice of some sort. Daggers effectively have the fastest attack rate of any weapon, but to get that attack rate you have to be willing to put a lot of points into Dagger Mastery.

Lets see if I can remember enough from my stat classes to get this right...

First, I'm going to assume a base attack rate of 0.8 hits per second (or a hit every 1.25 seconds, the sword is 1.33, and I believe the dagger is slightly faster, it might not be, but you still get the idea from these numbers)

Dagger Mastery at 0, Doulbe Strike Rate: 0%
Single Attacks per second: 0.8 * 100% = 0.8
Double Attacks per second: 1.6 * 0% = 0.0
Total attacks per second: 0.8
Seconds Per Attack: 1.25

Dagger Mastery at 15, Double Strike Rate: 30%
Single Attacks per second: 0.8 * 70% = 0.56
Double Attacks per second: 1.6 * 30% = 0.48
Total attacks per second: 1.04
Seconds Per Attack: 0.96

So, assuming I got my math right, an Assassin with 15 dagger mastery will have an expected attack rate of 1 attack per second while under no attack speed boosts. (Remember this is an expected value, the actual value can be anywhere from 0.8 to 1.6 depending on how lucky you are, but on average, you're attack speed will be 1/s) Also note that this is the attack speed without an attack speed increase. The same calculations with a 33% speed boost:

Normal Attack Speed: 0.8
33% boosted Speed: 1.2

Dagger Mastery at 0, Doulbe Strike Rate: 0%
Single Attacks per second: 1.2 * 100% = 1.2
Double Attacks per second: 2.4 * 0% = 0.0
Total attacks per second: 1.2
Seconds Per Attack: 0.83

Dagger Mastery at 15, Double Strike Rate: 30%
Single Attacks per second: 1.2 * 70% = 0.84
Double Attacks per second: 2.4 * 30% = 0.72
Total attacks per second: 1.56
Seconds Per Attack: 0.64

Yes, you read that right, with a 33% speed boost and 30% double strike %, the expected attack rate of daggers is one attack ever 2/3s of a second.


Phades: An assassin might actually be the best thing to counter Union. While yes, each hit will deal almost no damage, the extreme rate of the damage packets will cause the spirit to lose it's health very quickly (every time damage is prevented, the spirit loses 15 health), and most likely die within seconds.

That would depend on how many contacts per second per target is being made with the assassin included. I would think that attacking the spirit directly via large packets or via ranger spike would be most effective. However, that doesnt mean that 15-20s later that another one will be dropped down in its place or not. 4-5 seconds is probably a fair estimate under high stress circumstances in a 8v8 situation assuming all attacks hit. The real question is, do you want to operate in a situation where zero damage achieves the intended target durring that time or not.

True, but if you're hitting with 3 hits every 2 seconds, I'm sure you can find something to take advantage of that to make it worth it even if you aren't doing damage with just the dagger attack damage (orders and SoH come readily to mind, especially since OoV is considered loss of life and isn't affected by union (wait, I've never been sure, OoP and SoH say they add damage to the attack, but are they considered seperate in terms of things like Union? Will you get the extra damage from the orders, or just the extra Union redirect? (yes I like using excessive nested parentasis (sorry, LISP has taken hold of my soul))))

But then again, you also have to make sure you're hitting :-/

yes, you can get a critical strike while using a double strike. I used Lotus' Fury for quite awhile and she seemingly hit max damage a lot during those double strike, not always, but a sufficent ammount-- the normal ammount per strike.


If you notice with sword attacks, there IS an animation where 2 yellow strikes appear, if you were weilding a dagger, that would have been a double strike. So as common as that animation comes up, you double strike. Skills like lotus' fury boost how often that animation comes up though, making you double strike. to double strike causing another, it would cut the animation in half doing 3 hits, so I doubt that could happen due to arena.net wants smooths animations, right?

Double strike is linked to dagger mastery and will not work with any other weapon type.

IWAY is going to be replaced with assassins or die completely. If it dies ranger and necro spike will take over.