What do you value more?

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

Right now I've kinda hit a mile stone with my Necro.. He has a Major vigor rune and a Hale Cruel Staff of Fortitude (+29/+28) In total thats 98 hp... But hes a MM so he has a Superior Death Magic rune with -75 hp.. In total he has 503 hp.. Right now I have enough money to buy a Superior Vigor rune, which would raise me to 512 hp.. And if I got perfect mods on my staff (+30/+30) That'd be 515 hp... What I want to know is, would the 60k-80k that would cost me, be more valuable then say.. 4 black dyes for my necros armor? In the long run I know the 12 more hp would be more practical, but just how practical is it when it comes to being warrior ganked in pvp, I don't think the 12 makes that much of a difference.. Mind you theres tons of skills an MM can accompany himself with to make himself live longer. (Minion Bond, Demonic Flesh) What would you do if you were in my positon? And have any of you ever criss crossed with the challange of deciding on over priced mods for perfection or simply looking cool for a cheaper price?

JR

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

Personally I think to really make a character PvP ready, it has to have perfect equipment and runes. If you don't, you may aswell just roll up a PvP character.

Teh Azman

Teh Azman

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

I Used Charm Animal On Your [MOM]

Me/R

In my opinion, superior vigor isn't really worth it, unless you find one then you got a choice of either 10 hp or 40-50k... 12 hp doesn't make a difference at all, if you get down that low its now even gonna help you.

itznitro

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

We are your friends

R/

I'd drop both the hale and fortitude mods and get some armor+5 mods.

Rhuobhe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Less Crying is Key [kThx]

This game is all about looking good. Enough said

striderkaaru

striderkaaru

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Retired Officer

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhuobhe
This game is all about looking good. Enough said
agreed.

you can calculate 12 hp, but looking good is priceless.

raymie_y

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2005

Function over Form every time. Looking good doesn't mean squat except for when you take screenshots. I'd put any one of my characters in a jester's suit with a baby rattle if it had better stats than the current armor and weapons.

SilentAssassin

SilentAssassin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

Remnants of Ascalon, KT alliance

R/N

why do ppl want superior vigors and perfect weapons? ... not because its so much better, doesn't make a difference mostly, its just because some ppl (like me) just want to have perfect things ...

But if you only got 70-80k I wouldn't spend it on superior vigor...

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

Hmm, That brings me to another question.. Whats better for PvP (Cultist/Bone) or (Necrotic/Tormentor).. I don't see many smiters anymore so I'm curious to whats more efficient.

And if you're wondering about looks, I'm talking about the male 15k armors. http://tel.eohjay.net/15knec.html

Excer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

W/Me

12 hp wont help you much at all. i suggest you either save the money or buy the dye. i'm an appearence person so yea =P

and about the pvp thing. i use my pve warrior for pvp and it doesnt have perfect stuff. but it really doesnt matter...i think its already been proven that the +14% on my sephis axe is the same as the +15% on pvp axes, but my axe looks sooo much better i also lack about 10 hp from the pvp char...wow like that matter . i'd rather pwn my opponents while looking good with my expensive armor and weapons.

PS: No, i dont think items determine skill lvl

Fatty Fatty Boomballati

Fatty Fatty Boomballati

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Colorado

True Foundation

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR-
Personally I think to really make a character PvP ready, it has to have perfect equipment and runes. If you don't, you may aswell just roll up a PvP character.
Ummmmmm... I'd take the black dye because I'm sure skill factors into PvP a little...

LifeInfusion

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

Get armor +5 mods. Drop the idea of superior vigor, get yourself some nice weapon mods like +5 energy staff head (very good for MM).
Superior vigor is only 9 extra HP than the major vigor.

AND sicne you have 29/28 it is pointless to get that 3 HP from 30/30. If anything, just get a green weapon.

JR

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati
Ummmmmm... I'd take the black dye because I'm sure skill factors into PvP a little...
Oh really?

My point is that if your character is using non-perfect equipment, i.e. isn't "PvP ready", it is to your advantage to roll a PvP character. There you can get all the runes, armor, items, weapon upgrades with perfect stats. Unless you really care about how you look in PvP.

It may seem silly I know, but the amount of times I have been down to my last 10 hp only to get manage to heal up and recover... And that can be a game turning event in a very evenly matched battle.

Dying or losing due to using inferior equipment because you spent all your plat on black dye... just seems stupid. Yes it's not very likely to happen, but it can and it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Get armor +5 mods. Drop the idea of superior vigor, get yourself some nice weapon mods like +5 energy staff head (very good for MM).
Superior vigor is only 9 extra HP than the major vigor.
+5 energy is fairly pointless, a larger energy pool is a fairly small advantage compared to +30 health health. Which brings me onto my next point: With the metagame looking like it is going tawards hex heavy degen builds, I would probably stick to a +60 staff instead of +10 armor.

And yes, sup vigor is a small advantage, but black dye is no advantage at all, lol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
If anything, just get a green weapon.
Agreed. Green items are a great and *fairly* cheap way to kit out a character with perfect equipment.

dansamy

Chasing Dragons

Join Date: May 2005

Lost in La-La Land

LFGuild

Mo/Me

Hmmm.....live longer or look good dead??

LifeInfusion

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR-
+5 energy is fairly pointless, a larger energy pool is a fairly small advantage compared to +30 health health. Which brings me onto my next point: With the metagame looking like it is going tawards hex heavy degen builds, I would probably stick to a +60 staff instead of +10 armor.

And yes, sup vigor is a small advantage, but black dye is no advantage at all, lol.




Agreed. Green items are a great and *fairly* cheap way to kit out a character with perfect equipment.
I said that because he already has 29/28HP staff. There's no point in getting a 30/30 (it is only 3 HP) and all the money invested in 29/28 would be wasted.

In addition, when I say get +5 armor mods I mean on a collector staff or what not, because his current staff could be an antidegen one while the armor one would sreve against non-armor-ignoring type damage (elemental/physical).

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Quote:
Originally Posted by striderkaaru
agreed.

you can calculate 12 hp, but looking good is priceless.
This man knows what he's talking about. High style for the win, people. If you have the cash, go for max mods just for completeness..

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

Well actually I got a rather good deal for the mods.. Only spent 9k in total on them both.

Nater

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Illusion Of Skill

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh Azman
In my opinion, superior vigor isn't really worth it, unless you find one then you got a choice of either 10 hp or 40-50k... 12 hp doesn't make a difference at all, if you get down that low its now even gonna help you.
Yet ppl argue over Vampiric vs. other mods.

This and other replies are completely hypocritical. Off topic I know..but still.

+3 dmg matter before, but +12 hp dont. Make up your minds.

Shiro Shiverblade

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/N

I would save the money or buy the dye, its not worth paying a lot for a little extra hp.

LifeInfusion

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nater
Yet ppl argue over Vampiric vs. other mods.
+3 dmg matter before, but +12 hp dont. Make up your minds.
+3 damage consistently > 10% of the time sundering. Also, you STEAL that health, so with frenzy/flurry you will be stealing pretty often.

Cjlr

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

SMS

E/Me

Side note - the OP said he was going for a perfect hale staff of fortitude, right? But (and I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure) a defensive staff of defense (great name) is probably going to be much more effective. 10AL > extra health, last time I checked.

Manic Smile

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

It's a matter of degen damage vs spike damage. +60 is much more useful for degen damage. +10 AL much better in taking that crit eviserate or the like. PersonallY I disagree that the 5 mana is worth less then the 60 life. At least for my hex nec I like the +5 energy(one more spell without energy managment having to kick in) and the +5 armor. Since you're a caster why not just get all three and a anti- energy denial set. +60 life 20/20 collector staff, +10AL 20/20 collector staff, +17 energy +1 ability 20/20 wand/focus(hopefully availabe in green) combo, -5 energy sword -4 energy focus....ideally of course

Anraeth

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

SE america

This Is Cakeguild [cAke]

go for the 30/30 + sup vigor. You would be suprised how far that takes you against spikers.

Sereng Amaranth

Sereng Amaranth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Amazon Basin [AB]

It will happen eventually. And you will remember that battle forever. The one where you survive with 1hp.

Cjlr

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

SMS

E/Me

Ooh! Ooh! ^^ That happened to me once! But it was my ranger... In PvE... But still, made me glad to have bought that minor vigor.

Robster Lobster

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

If you're running an MM, aren't you going to want a Death Magic +1 (20%)?

Angel Develin

Angel Develin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Lions Arch

Minions of Kronos

N/Me

IMO with MM you should have less healt and more armor, as MM you will use sacrifice a lot of healt when you have more healt. 2nd pro monk is mostly used to heal your self and not the minions (not saying its not posible). the best way to keep your minions a live is to use necro skills.

Manic Smile

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster Lobster
If you're running an MM, aren't you going to want a Death Magic +1 (20%)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ME from before
+17 energy +1 ability 20/20 wand/focus(hopefully availabe in green) combo
clarification: Bortak's Bone Cesta(20% death fast cast and + 1(20%) death magic) + +5^50% wand 10% fast cast in my case

yes but for summoning the minnions only...not really all that important in any other part of the build...maybe verata's sac for those few more seconds but weapon switch is your friend



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth
It will happen eventually. And you will remember that battle forever. The one where you survive with 1hp.
is it really worth basing your build off of that I mean blind luck has about as much a factor as that case

Malchior Devenholm

Malchior Devenholm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Dragon Arena!!!

Pshycho Ninjas [oGod] | Vent Rage [vR] | Zealots of Shiverpeak [ZoS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth
It will happen eventually. And you will remember that battle forever. The one where you survive with 1hp.

Luck nothing, as sereng mentioned IT WILL HAPPEN, I remember that TOA run like it was yesterday...

In ur case though, id stick with the black dye, u can get that +3 hp l8r

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

I have had battles where I've ran from warriors while bleeding and it stops right at 1-5 hp. But thats only 2 our of the thousands I've ever PvPed in

Manic Smile

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

that's kinda what i mean...the war could have just as easily crit on that last attack and you'd have bled to death

LordDeArnise

LordDeArnise

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

California, USA

The Elite Knights of Tarnia [PwnD]

Since casters are always ripe pickings for degens and rangers, or the occassional IWAY warriors, I would rather have a dead caster that looks good, or warriors with enough hp's to let a surviving monk or his healing skills try to turn the tide of battle, or make them work a bit more to get your warrior killed.

True, a green weapon or a gold that looks perfect may help you out, but in all, it still comes down to skill, team chemistry, and play styles. All of my characters are PvE, and my ranger isn't the very best out there, but if your avatar is bound to get outplayed, you may as well have it look good...dead.

BBoy_Manchild

BBoy_Manchild

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

dayton ohio

N/Mo

actually, as a mm, you want as little health as possible staying in a safe range of enough health to take a few hits before dying, the less health you have the less you sac

Manic Smile

Manic Smile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hawaii

----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild
actually, as a mm, you want as little health as possible staying in a safe range of enough health to take a few hits before dying, the less health you have the less you sac
and the heal area covers the sac from OoB, Verata's Sac and Blood o Master

yea I've played with two sup runes at times(and a sup vigor) for that very purpose...one death one soul reaping...but the +60 staff is for switch in during critical moments not ment for general use...think kiting while degening but out of range from say that pesky warrior...but when ever I cast I use Bortak's Cesta

Markaedw

Markaedw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/

true there has been several times that I was down to less than 9 health, if you got the 60k go for it

Shadowspawn X

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

Get the sup vigor and 30/30 because if you gonna be a player, play to win.

SaintGreg

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

I just bought a superior vigor so that my pve monk could pvp (collectors are my friend), same reason as JR said, unless you have a fully decked out character rolling a pvp char is just better than your pve character for serious pvp. For non-serious pvp it doesn't matter since maybe you want to have fun pvp'ing while earning some experience at the same time.

You also probably want backup armors. One of the great things about pve chars is that you can switch your armor to suit the battle. Say you are facing a spike team - you can take that superior off and just use the minor so that you are 75 hp harder to spike down.

fiery

fiery

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

maryland

InYurFace Gaming [IYF]

R/

screw the +5 energy dude your a necro.. soul reaping.

snapp

snapp

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

W/

black dye is going for about 6 - 7k a bottle now, so if you buy four is will set you back 24-28k.

so if you do have 60-80K, you can still have a large portion of it for runes/mods after buying the dye.