The "Old Underworld" - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Lord Iowerth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Atlanta, GA (#guildwarsguru FTW!)

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

R/Mo

30 Jan 2006 at 19:39 - 1

Why can't they just call the "New Underworld" tombs? But meh, that's a different story, here's my question to you folks:

Last night my usual group and I went to trap the underworld (that's, the old underworld) and everything was behaving very strangeley ... for example: places where we trap coldfires where there are normally 3, there was only one. Ok, that's actually good! No biggie there, maybe they lost a fight ... but the part that really bothers me -

When pulling the smites towards our traps, their aggro got really funny ... (and our puller is not some noob, has been doing this for quite some time): they behaved out of character in 2 ways:

1) They had a much smaller "running range", and by this I mean the pont they stop chasing you to go back to where they were ... was not it's normal size ...

2) Once we did manage to get them close enough, a few would keep following all the way to traps and set them off, while some (sometimes most) of the group would hang back, and then come in after the traps were sprung

Just wanted to know if anyone else was down last night and had a similar experience, i'm thinking they did some off-the-record UW updating

sun is in us

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Organic Soup

Of the Day

Me/

30 Jan 2006 at 19:47 - 2

Last time I was in there with my 55hp monk I left a note and a diagram on How Traps Work with the smites. We both aggreed Rangers were getting away with it too easily.

Lord Iowerth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Atlanta, GA (#guildwarsguru FTW!)

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

R/Mo

30 Jan 2006 at 20:07 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun is in us

Last time I was in there with my 55hp monk I left a note and a diagram on How Traps Work with the smites. We both aggreed Rangers were getting away with it too easily.

What do you mean by a note and a diagram?

Heh, we're also not trying to solo/2 Man one of the hardest areas of the game, at least there's 4 of us, and it does take longer to trap than it does to 55monk/SS necro it ...

but we're straying off topic: once again: we're not noobs, and have done this many, many times before ... I was interested to know if anyone else has noticed a change, or if we just had bad luck (as we all only had time to go on 1 run).

Star Gazer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Zerohour Enterprises [ZHE]

W/

30 Jan 2006 at 20:12 - 4

yeah, I was duo-ing uw last night with a friend, and after the first set of coldfires I can usually pull all of the smites in this area with one draw. the ones that were on the right (behind the "mountain") stopped chasing...so yeah, AI has gotten smarter down there I guess

Burton2000

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

A cardboard box in England

Men Of Substance [YMCA]

Mo/Me

30 Jan 2006 at 20:15 - 5

Yeah i've done some 2 and 3 man trap runs and you'd set the traps then go and herd the smites and bring them back to you and theyd stop as though there was an invisible wall that they couldnt go past and so it'd be impossible to get past them as you couldn't kill them.Thats one of the main reasons why ive stoped going to the uw now.

Neriandal Freit

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Spiral of The Red Rose, Kryta (Columbus, IN)

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

E/

30 Jan 2006 at 20:19 - 6

Have you guys maybe thought that during this new, "Winter" update that they (the monsters) are much more like the players now?

Seriously, think about it. If 2 or three of them come after the traps while the others stay behind, isn't that what a Player might do for the good of his group?

Guess what! It's called new ideas and team work! The sameo sameo doesn't last for ever!

Lord Iowerth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Atlanta, GA (#guildwarsguru FTW!)

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

R/Mo

30 Jan 2006 at 20:23 - 7

Hmm, so it's everyone it looks like ... that's not good

You would think they'd be more against nerfing 55/SS builds than trappers, but I suppose the easy way to hurt both is just what they've done with smite AI ... apart from some coldfires missing, as i mentioned in my original post, all the other monsters seem to be aggro'ing normally except my little blue friends.

Anyone know when this started? I'm sure i've trapped within the last few days, but only seemed to notice it last night ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

Guess what! It's called new ideas and team work! The sameo sameo doesn't last for ever!

How'd i know there was going to be some of this? Look here: I have never complained about any updates, including the AoE/DoT nerf, and don't ever intend to complain about any of them in the future. I have no problem modifying strategies, builds, etc and neither do the group I travel with. I was simply asking if anyone else had experienced this same same situation, not complaining "ZOMG THIS UPDATE STINKS, DANG YOU ANET!!!shift111!!" about it. Save your scathing comments for someone more deserving of them.

relaxed

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

30 Jan 2006 at 20:28 - 8

i would suggest you consider what solo monks have been doing since day one - just bypass the coldfires altogether

Neriandal Freit

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Spiral of The Red Rose, Kryta (Columbus, IN)

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

E/

30 Jan 2006 at 20:40 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Iowerth

Hmm, so it's everyone it looks like ... that's not good

You would think they'd be more against nerfing 55/SS builds than trappers, but I suppose the easy way to hurt both is just what they've done with smite AI ... apart from some coldfires missing, as i mentioned in my original post, all the other monsters seem to be aggro'ing normally except my little blue friends.

Anyone know when this started? I'm sure i've trapped within the last few days, but only seemed to notice it last night ...

How'd i know there was going to be some of this? Look here: I have never complained about any updates, including the AoE/DoT nerf, and don't ever intend to complain about any of them in the future. I have no problem modifying strategies, builds, etc and neither do the group I travel with. I was simply asking if anyone else had experienced this same same situation, not complaining "ZOMG THIS UPDATE STINKS, DANG YOU ANET!!!shift111!!" about it. Save your scathing comments for someone more deserving of them.

Oh I wasn't scathing you by any means on purpose. It's clear and logical that we always have to change things over and over again. Trappes were never cared for in UW untill an update, so perhaps this is the time of the Memser now or something.

But this is what your topic basically feels like, it's a bit out pouting (i do mean a bit) with a true question in it. Hell, be fortunate you can do Underworld(even with the more "player" like Monsters). No one wants an Elementalist anymore. It's always Monks, Rangers, Necros and Warriors.

Sunsu Pyro

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

UK

W/Mo

30 Jan 2006 at 20:45 - 10

I think it's very good, welcome to the time of smartER AI bots. Time to end your little runs.

Lord Iowerth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Atlanta, GA (#guildwarsguru FTW!)

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

R/Mo

30 Jan 2006 at 20:48 - 11

Right right, I was honestly not trying to start flame-war, and I really am quite flexible and don't mind making new builds and strategies at all ... I was really just trying to confirm that this was happening to everyone, and not just a fluke ... being that nothing is mentioned in the "official" update (and yes I know there are often hidden updates that aren't specifically stated).

I'd still like to hear it from a few more folks, trappers mainly, that they're having the same experience ... at which point I will sigh (ever so slightly

) and begin work on a new build/strategy.

Ranger Rog

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

UK

[TOG]

30 Jan 2006 at 21:42 - 12

I went in the UW in 3 and 4 man trap team twice last week, different parties each time. On the first run I experienced the same thing, smites just wouldnt cooperate and bunch up properly to hit the traps, the pack would split and half of them would hold back causing the poor guy luring no end of grief. On the second run with just 3 of us (2 days ago) we blitzed the little buggers

, every pack lured nicely, somtimes in groups of up to 8 at a time all hitting the traps square on, so go figure.

Lord Iowerth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Atlanta, GA (#guildwarsguru FTW!)

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

R/Mo

30 Jan 2006 at 22:48 - 13

Hmm, strange strange ... so it is an occasional thing, perhaps? I suppose the only way to satiate my curiosity is to just make some more runs and observe the results ...

Keep 'em coming if you got 'em, though.

Also a bit off topic, anyone notice (male ranger) while wielding a staff and casting a spirit, that you no longer do the "raise the staff at the end" bit of animation? You just sort of ... stop ... as if to say "Meh, there it is."

EF2NYD

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

30 Jan 2006 at 23:34 - 14

There was an update that reduced the length of time enemies chased you.

Viscount

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

E/Me

31 Jan 2006 at 00:06 - 15

That update was awhile back, I've trapped since then and it's still effective down there.
As for the casting animation I've noticed that as well lately, and if you try to run after using a spirit you slide across the ground instead of running.

Alperuzi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

An/TR

Need One! :(

W/Mo

31 Jan 2006 at 17:59 - 16

UW is very random, I've been trapping for months now and confused smites/atax are common. The last bunch of runs I made 2-3 days ago resulted in:

1) No ectos whatsoever
2) No chests
3) No rare drops
4) Atax blocking each others way and therefore mis-triggering our traps...

Shyft the Pyro

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

NYC, USA

E/Mo

31 Jan 2006 at 18:40 - 17

I've only been trapping smites recently with my R/W as a way to get the last few skill points I still need, so can't regale you with tales of yore

I have, however, noticed that the smite "packs" are much more "independent" of each other. Unless you manage to aggro the whole pack when it bunches up, the smites will come at you one, or several, at a time. The solution? Have someone like me stance-pull for you. I try to bunch the smites around me before leading them back to traps. Sure, my traps do less damage, but at least I can spend about 50 seconds with a 75% stance up while pulling.

If you don't do this, smites indeed come in "waves" and you have to re-trap repeatedly as they run in and out due to Dust Trap's AoE effect. Which again means that you will do best with a stance trapper, since a stance trapper has a smaller chance of being interrupted by the smites and can tank for the "real" trappers.

As for drops, in only 5 UW runs or so (I've been doing some things for guildies lately, couldn't make it to UW) I managed to grab 3 ecto, 2 in the same run. And only one of those ectos came from smites.

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

31 Jan 2006 at 18:56 - 18

One the same note, I have experienced the same thing in FoW last night. I was doing one of my clearance runs, when a monk went afk, we cleared out the burning forest and still had sereral quests left since we were coming across the great battlefield heading to the temple when we saw where the monk had left his toon tucked away to freeload and pick up 100,000 XP by simply running around and collecting the rewards after we finished. I tried to round up a herd about 8 shadow beasts to lure them over to kill the freeloader. (my plan was to get spiteful on me and stand next to him attacking) And it took forever cause they just would not follow me more than 20 twenty feet. I barraged them and ran circles around them and they would not follow. It was as if they had an invisable line they would not cross, even if I killed one of them. Abyassal same thing. There is definately something strange going on with the AI.

sumasage

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

01 Feb 2006 at 00:16 - 19

went on a run with guildies last night and notice the same thing. We ran a 4 man trapper group. Smites seem to pull pretty funny, they are a bit scattered. Maybe we should try to make 2 sets of traps, on in front to make some initial dmg then fall back to the second ...maybe they bunch up by then. The AI definately gotten smarter.

Lord Iowerth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Atlanta, GA (#guildwarsguru FTW!)

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

R/Mo

01 Feb 2006 at 00:53 - 20

Very interesting ... and yes shyft, our puller is a stance ranger, but thank you for the offer

From what I can tell with my few runs last night, it's just my little blue friends that have been effected ... all the Aatxe/Darkness/Coldfires are behaving exactly as they always have, but the Smities have become quite stubborn. I'm going down again tonight and i'm going to make some movies with fraps and check out their behavior, perhaps find some new areas to start the trap instead of the places we've been using.

I'll let everyone know what I come up with, until then!

Athis Strider

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

California

R/Mo

01 Feb 2006 at 01:42 - 21

My 2 cents worth.

I have been doing UW for a while. On one particular run (right around x-mas time) I noticed everything you guys are talking about. Unfortunatly my PUG team mates were not as experienced or as observant, so subsequently they said I was the worst puller they ever had. LOL, I knew something was diffrent but I also knew trying to convince them of how it "used to be" sounded like an excuse.
So to recap, there are now less drops than before, and yes the monsters do act different.

Athis

Soflaz

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

PA, USA

Fissure Death Dealers [FoW]

R/Rt

01 Feb 2006 at 01:48 - 22

Yeah some crazy stuff has happened to me lately within the last month or so. I belong to UW trapping guild, that does spider runs and all that. Well the last few runs or so we're finding ourselves getting killed a lot more from crazy stuff happening.

For instace we were fighting 3 aataxes, they hit our traps but one got away with a little health. So we do usual and poison it and go to trap the rest of its health down to 0. When I got to it, it was still blind and I had my whirling defense on. Wouldn't you know it, 2 hits and I'm down. Same thing with one of my guildies, both of us dead with it blind and us with stances on.

For the rest of that run, I and that same friend just kept dying when we went to pull or something. Are these stances a rip off? Or just bad luck.... who knows?

Lasher Dragon

Draconic Rage Incarnate

Join Date: Apr 2005

Iowa

Alphahive

R/A

01 Feb 2006 at 03:56 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soflaz

For the rest of that run, I and that same friend just kept dying when we went to pull or something. Are these stances a rip off? Or just bad luck.... who knows?

My theory is that the AI cheats, and often.

For example, no more than a second after Choking Gassing Jade Scarabs, they proceed to happily cast spell after spell. Apparently they are immune?

Also, if you ever pay attention to the statistics, all percent miss chances work much better when it is in the AI's favor to do so. Want an example? Go to Dunes of Despair with any character that has some kind of 75% miss/block chance stance. Fight Losaru. They use Shield Stance, 75% block chance. You will hit them maybe once for every 3 or 4 times they hit you - NOT counting the Seeking Blade attacks.

olydog

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

FMS clan

Mo/W

01 Feb 2006 at 12:26 - 24

I Just have to respond to these last couple posts. Block/evade chances on the players side is not the same as the monsters chances....case in point. The monk Griffon boss at augery rock uses Guardian when that spell is maxed out it is 50% at best..but of course when you are fighting it with a warrior you WILL miss EVERY time you swing...never fails! Now go with a trapping/stance ranger to droks cave where the "Disrupting chop" mtn Trolls live and cast whirling defense(75% chance) AND blind them...and tell me how many times they will disrupt you...for me it's happened WAY to many times that I get blocked!

Oh...and since we are talking about updates..how come they made the stupid monsters and such get out of AoE attacks..but not the henchies? I've had many an experiance with henchies just standing there in a fire storm ..or the stupid healing henchies acting like tanks fighting right along with my warrior??????????

Anyways...if arenanet is going to "fix" stuff why not do it all?