15k Armor Unlocking for PvP Chars

Guess what PVP characters can't do either?

GRIND 20 LEVELS OF XP, SKILLS AND GOLD THEY NEED TO BE COMPETITIVE FOR PLAYER VS PLAYER.

Thank you.

Which are....?

I don't understand why you think that makes you more 'entitled' to (statistically) worthless perks, such as 15k armor. You grinded? Good job. You aren't special. PvE isn't difficult, it's just time-consuming--and I say this having taken a good seven or so characters through the entirety of PvE.

I simply don't see why, having bought that 15k Wanderer's set for my PvE monk, I am not at all allowed to use it for a PvP character I make. I have yet to see a legitimate reason.

FoWs only advantage is you can't see what type of FoW it is (ie Glads)

Its not huge

All different armor types on FoW look exactly the same, so opponents won't know what armor you are wearing.

Important part bolded. PvE char uses much time to create, PvP char can be created within few minutes and be fully competitive. Granted, that newly created PvP char won't be of much use unless it has skills locked, and when starting, doing PvE is only 'efficient' way to do so.

Tho, if one manages to buy this 'worthless' armor in PvE, why shouldn't it unlock for PvP? I don't really see anything against it, although the armor's purpose is being money sink, handing it out to new PvP charas would belittle it's money draining purpose. After all, PvE chars have to buy the armor again after rerolls... tho who sane people would reroll a PvE char with all the stuff unlocked.. More of a GW flaw...

edit: what word is competible, argh.

Are you saying PvP isn't time consuming? And that it is difficult? Have you played in the random arenas...I can faction farm all day and unlock so many things its not even funny.

I don't see why you think anything you can just buy would be unlockable to an account? I have to buy all my runes...but they aren't unlocked for me...

What are these so called bonuses? Just that the armor type isn't immeadiately detectable by the enemies?
And what is this even footing you're talking about? Is it the fact that PvE have to grind to get the perfect items that are given to PvP? Is it the fact that PvP can now unlock skills with the Faction? Where is the unfairness for those PvP players...
I just don't understand... I guess some people just want everything

Being able to hide your armour IS an edge. So is having more than one set,and being able to swap pieces depending on what you face. So is having items like the Denravi Helm, which can only be used by a PvE toon, and cuts hex duration in half.

You don't get wanting a level playing field? You actually think it is at all acceptable that there are obvious biases?

In sports there is no adantage for having played longer - you don't get to use a smaller net in hockey because your team has been around longer. Advantages are eliminated by swapping ends, by standardised pucks and rinks and so on - making a fair competition. Time invested has nothing to do with it, it is about skill.

In most competitive games there is no advantage, other than skill. You don't get 2 extra pawns for having won last year's chess championship, or a special queen able to jump like a knight. You have the EXACT same starting setup as your opponent, to make it a competition.

Havng PvE gear (providing an advantage - not dyes, 15k vanity armor and stuff) that cannot be unlocked in PvP is a bias, and makes it an unfair competition. Instead of reducing PvP to skill, which is what it should measure, it instead also forces playing PvE to get the items which provide an advantage. Believe me, there are many items from PvE I'd like unlocked for PvP characters - and I own them too, many of them, but hate having to roll a PvP character, swap the item over, put it back in storage, delete and reroll. Some aren't even available in PvE anymore, yet ANet leaves htem around instead of deleting them. +15% always swords with no penalties, Zealous blades without tthe -1 energy regen and other items from the early game do not belong. Worse yet, some items simply can't be used effectively by PvP characters, as they can't customise them.

Items that aren't available in game now should be deleted; items that provide an edge in PvP should be unlockable. You want dyes, hairstyles etc, go ahead, restrict that to PvE. I don't care if every PvP warrior looks exactly alike, same weapon, no dyes, same height and so on - provided they have a fair environment.

I think that the 15k armors should be unlockable for PvP use, however, I disagree that faction should be the unlock method. As has been posted, I think when you craft a specific armor in PvE, you should get the "Item Unlocked" pop-up, one for each piece for each class. Want FoW armor for your PvP monks? Do the same as anyone else has to do and grind your ass off to get it. Once unlocked though, you should be able to just make any PvP monk w/FoW armor.

That's my opinion anyway, and I don't even play PvP.

That's because RA is just a bunch of PvErs running around with their 15k armor, or PvPers testing out new, potentially crappy builds. It's not at all representative of what the actual, honest-to-goodness competitive PvP in this game really is.

Hey, it sounds like a good idea to me. I'd even enjoy PVE a lot more if that were the case. And yet, somehow, I think a lot of PVE-lovers would complain that it makes it too easy.

Which is the most frustrating part of this whole thing, really. People complain that PVP characters don't have to do the same work that PVE chars do, at the same time as they demand that PVE chars not do any less work. All I want is to have more cosmetics to play around with on my (PVP) characters, but this can't happen because people who for some reason want to grind their butts off to get those cosmetics also want me to grind for them. What did I ever do to them that they get so upset at the thought of me having a little stylistic variety to play around with?

No, I don't get your point at all. Why does it have to be seen as some kind of competition between PVP and PVE characters?

/notsigned

I think that those who go through PvE deserve to have the option of 15k armor, and only those.

Arrogant PvP people who want everything annoy me...

same here.

Arrogant PvE players who think that spending time at something makes them better irks me.

I think that faction should do much more. Some people hit the faction cap ages ago. Why does PvE unlock PvP anyway, and not vice versa? Screw it, PvE players get the easy ride, playing and magically they get PvP unlocks? Yet a PvP player can unlock everything and get nothing for PvE? Who gets everything by that logic? PvE gets the benefit of an unlock whenever they get an item, but I don't see an item appearing every time I get an unlock.

Once you hit the faction cap you should be able to trade faction for gold, PvE items, skillpoints and anything else. I'd like to cash in my faction for some Ecto please. PvE players think it isn't workk, that we don't earn faction? It's as much "earning" it as they "earn" a 15k armour.

Then again, I love beating a guy in FoW with a fellblade with a toon I just rolled up. Skill over time spent, boyo. In a way that'll never get dull, taking some simple build with the gear I've unlocked and polishing the floor with a stuffed-shirt arrogant PvEer. Nothing makes me laugh like the guys who are "LF stance tank for TA group". You go, guys, tank it up!

Ooh, the voice of experience. Yeah, you obviously have a grasp of the amount of grind in a full unlock.

For the record, one of those suggestions was that buying it in game unlocks it in PvP. Frankly, I think that's absurd - if it has an advantage, make it faction-purchaseable, or accessible. Go ahead and restrict the order of unlocks if you want - you need to unlock a minor rune to get a major, you need to unlock the major to get the superior. Maybe require unlocking all warrior skills to get the warrior FoW unlock, but it should be possible. Items like -5 energy/+15% swords, negative energy foci, Denravi Helms and so on should all be in the equipment menu. The idea that competition should be unfair and biased to those with more time to spend is absurd.

Either make the PvE and PvP bond closer, allowing unlocks both ways - spending faction for PvE items for example, and allowing all PvE items to be unlocked in PvP, or separate the two - no more PvE characters earning "unlocks" - fight with what you "earned", and I'll get PvP only unlocks in PvP. As it is, PvE players get a "free ride" into PvP, and not vice versa.

Fighting your char from Pre-Searing and spending money on runners to Grotto and Granite is only part of the 15k price. Thats my point of view. So PvP chars do NOT deserve the option of having 15k armor. *Flees from a horde of angry PvPers*

I'm fine with the "PvE gets PvE only stuff" mentality, if you'll give up PvP unlocks for PvE play. Otherwise, don't whine about it - you get, for free, the option to use everything you unlock in PvP, plus the stuff you can buy/find that isn't unlockable. Otherwise, reciprocate. It takes lots of work to hit 400,000 faction, for example. Earned 5000 or so last night, but that was with a 30 win streak in TA.

You don't even know a proposed price for it and are against it, but believe it or not, you aren't special if you have 15k. Anyone can get it, easily. Heck, I happen to play PvE too, and don't have any 15k, despite having two full accounts of toons, piles of gold and materials, and so on. Why? Because I could care less about vanity items.

At a price of 10,000 faction per piece it wouldn't be cheap armour. 50k faction takes a while to build up. Why do you think that one form of play should get rewards while the other doesn't, and that one style of play should unlock for the other, but not vice versa? Hmm?

Yeah they choose to ignore half the game and beg,beg, beg for everything on the other side because as if they are entitled to just pick out what they want to do and get everything handed to them. Just roll up a real toon and get your armour guys whats the big deal?

What they need to understand is armor does not unlock. I got FoW armor on one charactor if I want it on another charactor I must start the process over because it is unique to the charactor that crafts it, its not "unlockable" and doesnt transfer to my other charactors pvp or pve.

Also what people need to accept is there is no such thing as a PvE only toon, when you create a charactor it gives you two choices.

1) PvP only toon
2) PvP and PvE toon. Im calling it a PvPvE toon

The reason PvPvE toons can emote is that they are PvP toons also, I earned my emote with my PvPvE toon, so why shouldn't it emote?

They don't earn anything , because faction is a charity givaway for pvp skills. Two guys on the same team in randoms on a PvP only toon , one a PvPvE toon, say they have 10 consective wins in RA, thats 100 faction a match , and a 100 XP per match. They now have 1000 faction and a 1000 XP after 10 matches on the same team. The PvP only toon bounces off on his merry way to go buy a skill, yet the PvPvE toon needs 15,000 XP to get a skill so he must win 150 matches for one skill point! And the PvP community is still beggin, come on they handing the game over to you guys on a silver platter!

Arrogant PvE players who don't want to share.

I will say that I've put in about 1000 hours into bring up PvE characters, I've beaten the game 3 times, in fact for a VERY long time, I was totally against PvP.

The free beta weekend brought me into PvP completely though.

I have deleted 1 of my 4 PvE chars to play as a PvP only char. I would like more armor options. Why NOT? Because you're selfish. I have around 500 plat in storage. Why can't I have 15k armor for my PvP toons? All my PvE toons have it.

Why can't my pvp character look just as sassy as their pve counterparts? Maybe we should get our OWN special looking armor. A big "fck you" to you pve-only people.

you seriously need to chill...

and for the record i have played pvp only, i just prefer PvE over it.

I agree that PVP should unlock things in PvE as well. I never said there was anything wrong with people who like PvP only, I just don't think that they should have the ablility to use faction points (that they get just from kills) for armor.

You really didn't have to go off on me like that though. These forums are meant to post your opinion, not to scream at people for having a different one then you.

EDIT : heres an idea, something i notice when making a PvP character is they don't even get all of the options of armor, for example the necromancers can choose scar patter, bonlace or tormentors, but i dont see necrotic or fanatics on there. I do think that all of these should be options for PvP.

Chapter 2 should have a new plot: All PvE characters vs all PvP characters.

Both ways of playing the game are fun and namecalling against each other is so immature and makes you look like a child. We should just enjoy what you like about the game and knock off the "PvE is better than PvP" type BS!

Oh yeah, and... /notsigned - There should be greater rewards for playing through the game.

Seriously. I don't think the point of playing a game or posting on forums is to argue.

PvP and PvE both have thier ups and downs, Just enjoy whatever you like.

You seem to have forgotten that faction was implemented FOR the PvP players that didn't WANT to play PvE, yet here we are with PvP players asking to trade their factions for stuff obtainable in PvE ONLY.
However, the amount earned at first wasn't enough, so after the PvP weekend they doubled it. How often have you seen the PvE community get an area that drops twice the amount of gold and rare items? Halfing the amount, yes. Doubling, no.
Faction shouldn't do anything else but make it easier for the PvP players to unlock skills and upgrades, just like it was intended. PvE gold doesn't unlock rank emotes, now does it? Also, what's that about "PvE players get the easy ride and magically get PvP unlocks"? We get nothing for weapon parts we unlock, they're only usable in PvP, and getting perfect parts by unlocking is near impossible to do, it's far easier to FARM faction in PvP to make them usable in PvP. You don't see the item, you HAVE the item. Reroll a character. Every time you add a grip of Fortitude, you add something that costs a PvE player 50k. At the cost of 1000 faction once...vs at the cost of 50k per piece to a PvE player...
As it is now, it's harder to get gold than faction. Doing the Zaichen Elite "challenge" can rake in well over 1000 faction in less than 30 minutes. It's not as much "earning", it's actually less.

ok i have one thing 2 say 2 all u people grow up you are playing a game stop complaing about what u dont have and deal with what u do have i play PvE and PvP and i dont want my PvE stuff for PvP or else whats the point of PvP the game is made 2 seperate PvE and PvP for just this reason you cant have everything every where you people are all just greedy and need 2 just deal with wats givin 2 you or stop playing

well said

You just blew out 3 circuit-breakers in my frontal lobe...

<digs around for a flashlight>

Haahaahahahaha
Oh man that is the last post in the world that deserves a "well said".

Have you played PvE? In PvP I can earn a couple thousand faction points in the blink of an eye and unlock a +30 health upgrade... but in my 1000 hours of playing I am still yet to find an item with a +30 health upgrade. Get it?

Why? What would a PvP character do with gold when he already has access to superb PvP equipment? Do you really think greens are that much superior? I'll let you in on a secret, they aren't that big a deal...

I want to trade in some of the 60+ skill points my PvE monk has and buy Fame... instant rank 10 here I come...

This "Make FoW unlockable with 10,000 faction" idea? Supposing I just farmed NPC's, I could do that in about 30 minutes a day for 10 days. That's five hours per piece. There's no way you could get FoW armor for that super low amount in PvE. You not only want everything, but want it faster. Not going to happen.

Also, why don't PvE characters get max weapons of every type with uber mods on them anytime they want for absolutely nothing? Because that would ruin the point. Do you have to play PvE AND PvE? No. Is it helpful? Yes.


Why would a game maker have 2 totally different ways to play a game, and implement everything in both of them? There would be no reason to play the more time-consuming of the two.

I don't understand. Are you saying it should take less XP to get a skill point? I'd have no problem with that.


Oh please. We're not even complaining about the absurdity of needing to unlock stuff in the first place. All we're asking is to have some way to get the additional cosmetic options, because we're tired of seeing the same old armors and weapons on every single character. It's dull!

If you find PVE so boring that it wouldn't be worth playing without prizes, shouldn't you be in favor of anything that makes it easier to skip?

A very good suggestion Lasher, in my opinion anyway. I am not against PvP characters being customized to look differently, I'm ENTIRELY against them being able to customize their characters with just as much ease as they can unlock anything else in the game already. Obviously, I think we can all agree that PvE and PvP styles of the game will both have their own options to make them unique, PvE wouldn't be such if you started off at lvl 20, PvP wouldn't be near as good if you started off with a noob character, etc. There must be differences between the two, true enough, but when you want to combine something for the two (15k armor for example), I definately think they should both have to go through all the work (and it IS a lot of work for many people, unlike getting faction which...you can get easily with any profession, without any wicked 1337 skillz).

Lasher I really agree with this suggestion, just like the method of unlocking skills via PvE to effect PvP, I wouldn't mind it if armor went the other way either. I wouldn't mind creating a necro PvP character and having all the 15k armors available since I've earned them all in PvE, in fact I'd say it's the only fair way to implement this.

NEWSFLASH FOR YOU

faction was a charity TOOL given to you in response to all the pvp whineing about..........

*GIVE US SOME WAY TO UNLOCK DOING WHAT WE ENJOY (pvp) INSTEAD OF HAVING TO UNLOCK BY PVE*

FACTION IS A PVP UNLOCKING TOOL AND WHEN YOU HAVE UNLOCKED EVERYTHING IT IS DONE.

OP here...

I am not an "arrogant PvP person" I play both PvP and PvE. I have a Monk in fow armor that I play all the time. I also have a Ranger in 15k that I used to pvp with.

My ranger doesn't have very many skills unlocked for it's 2ndary classes, but as I pvp I end up needing all sorts of different skills for different builds. So, I now play a pvp ranger that has everything I need, but looks damn ugly. I don't want to grind with the rpg ranger (frankly cause ranger is quite boring in rpg), but I prefer the way my rpg ranger looks.

Reading through the posts I come to this conclusion:

People have become stuck on the idea that rewards ARE the game. They aren't playing anymore, they are working. And they feel that they have to prove to everyone else that they have worked longer, sweated harder, and generally gone thru more shit to be where they are. Some of these people should sit back and think about what they're really doing. WHY are you playing the game?

I don't give a damn what everyone else looks like or how much work it took them to get that way. I want my ranger to wear the best looking outfit the artists designed AND stay competitive in PvP.

The problem with those "cosmetic options" you are asking for is that they require a lot of time and effort for a PvE'er to get. When a PvE player gets it, they have usually spent months worth of time and effort to get it for just one of their characters. All that trouble just for some "cosmetic options". If they want another one, thats another week-months work and 75-600K depending on wether you go 15K or FoW.

Why should a PvP player be given the option to freely use such "cosmetic changes" with every character they make, at no cost whatsoever? Regardless of how long it took for them to unlock, they could immediately deck all four of their characters in 15K or Fissure if they felt like it. How is that fair to all the PvE players who had to spend weeks or months working for it?

This shouldn't even be an issue, since the game is obviously not designed to be exclusively PvP, nor exclusively PvE. To get the most out of this game, you have to play both sides.

Yeah! And playing both sides means making one side irritating and the other side ugly! Right on! This is the way games were meant to be made and played, man. Ph34r my +5 Hairshirt of Grinding.

[/quote] but this can't happen because people who for some reason want to grind their butts off to get those cosmetics also want me to grind for them. What did I ever do to them that they get so upset at the thought of me having a little stylistic variety to play around with?[/quote]

You just answered your own question. It's basically what you DIDN'T do for that right. You don't "earn" the right to be able to be stylistic unless you play the PVE game.

I'm surprised this thread is still active, it's rather moot, Anet is not going to give everything to the pvp player at the risk of deminishing it's PVE base. PVP players have quite enough and do not deserve 15k armor or FoW armor or any other special kewl looking armors unless they play the PVE game and do the time. (smile) For the final time it is a REWARD for playing the PVE game up to PVP. If you want the REWARD, play the PVE game it's as simple as that. (smile)

Way to break it all down into one sweeping generalization.

In case you forgot, this is an MMORPG. And MMORPGs are heavy on the factor of risk versus reward. Or to be more precise, merit. You wont find an MMORPG where you don't spend long hours and sometimes days or weeks playing to get new and better stuff.

Yes folks, some people have nicer things than you. Usually those people earned those things by working for them. And no. It is not unfair for people to get better things than you for playing more and doing more stuff. If you can't bother or can't afford to put the effort to earn them yourselves, then like it or not, you don't deserve it.

If you can't deal with that, then maybe you shouldn't be playing an MMORPG.

PvP is just thrown into GW as an afterthought, deal with it.

It's not an MMORPG.

Check ANet's website.

This needs to be locked, there's no sense in it. I think it's a PvP game with a PvE backstory, and a CORPG, and someone here says it's an MMORPG, which it clearly isn't as ANet has said it isn't.