Debunking the Myth: IWAY & Skill
nohooiam
The majority of the Guild Wars community (especially on the forums) feels that IWAY has allowed "unskilled" players to achieve a high rank undeservingly and ruined the fame / rank system. This theory holds no truth.
The perception by many seems to be that IWAYers can easily achieve rank 9 and thus make the rank / fame system meaningless. But is there any reality to this comment?
First, consider that rank 9 equates to 4665 fame. Of course, it’s possible to reach this number simply by grinding a few fame per run. But I suspect those who reached rank 9 with only IWAY earned a significant number of fame from each run.
The question is then, are these rank 9 IWAYers undeserving of their rank?
Take into account the different types of maps and the objectives on each map.
An analysis into each map would reveal that an IWAY build is at a disadvantage in all but 2 maps.
1. Altar - IWAY cannot heal the ghost
2. Relic - IWAY cannot heal the relic runner
3. Priest - IWAY cannot heal the priest
4. Annihilation (Underworld / Scarred Earth) - Only in this map is IWAY on equal footing.
Take two teams equal in ability, one is IWAY, another is a balanced build. Put them in a map in which annihilation is not the objective. Wouldn’t it be logical to conclude that the IWAY team will lose in this situation?
For an IWAY team to win in this situation, they must outplay the other team, while at a disadvantage.
Thus, for the IWAY teams that earned more than one fame per run, they would have had to win consecutively on maps in which they are at a disadvantage. Wouldn’t it be logical to say that the skill and ability of the IWAY team was much greater than the teams they faced?
Teams that lose to IWAY should not be quick to jump to the conclusion that IWAY is a “cheap tactic”, but rethink their play strategy.
I believe the rants / flames against IWAY players are misguided. Admittedly, the average IWAYer has diluted the rank 6 to 7 crowd, the rank 9+ IWAYers deserve some respect in that they were able to outplay teams on maps in which they are at a disadvantage. Winning with IWAY (the way I see it) does take some skill.
The perception by many seems to be that IWAYers can easily achieve rank 9 and thus make the rank / fame system meaningless. But is there any reality to this comment?
First, consider that rank 9 equates to 4665 fame. Of course, it’s possible to reach this number simply by grinding a few fame per run. But I suspect those who reached rank 9 with only IWAY earned a significant number of fame from each run.
The question is then, are these rank 9 IWAYers undeserving of their rank?
Take into account the different types of maps and the objectives on each map.
An analysis into each map would reveal that an IWAY build is at a disadvantage in all but 2 maps.
1. Altar - IWAY cannot heal the ghost
2. Relic - IWAY cannot heal the relic runner
3. Priest - IWAY cannot heal the priest
4. Annihilation (Underworld / Scarred Earth) - Only in this map is IWAY on equal footing.
Take two teams equal in ability, one is IWAY, another is a balanced build. Put them in a map in which annihilation is not the objective. Wouldn’t it be logical to conclude that the IWAY team will lose in this situation?
For an IWAY team to win in this situation, they must outplay the other team, while at a disadvantage.
Thus, for the IWAY teams that earned more than one fame per run, they would have had to win consecutively on maps in which they are at a disadvantage. Wouldn’t it be logical to say that the skill and ability of the IWAY team was much greater than the teams they faced?
Teams that lose to IWAY should not be quick to jump to the conclusion that IWAY is a “cheap tactic”, but rethink their play strategy.
I believe the rants / flames against IWAY players are misguided. Admittedly, the average IWAYer has diluted the rank 6 to 7 crowd, the rank 9+ IWAYers deserve some respect in that they were able to outplay teams on maps in which they are at a disadvantage. Winning with IWAY (the way I see it) does take some skill.
Former Ruling
Simple fact is though that alot of the IWAY groups Fame Farm.
That is - It is quicker to go through the "Kill everything" maps - Quit - and restart - than it is to actually try and play the later maps.
That is - It is quicker to go through the "Kill everything" maps - Quit - and restart - than it is to actually try and play the later maps.
geminisaga
only a good iway team and organized that can will hall.
heist23
actually, if you look at it IWAY beats balanced builds even in a Priest or Relic Run map. i have personal experience with that. IWAY players generally have 1 player that brings Sprint or some speed buff in preparation for a Relic map. Priest maps are still Annihilation-based. kill everything, and THEN go to the priest. or just send your trapper while your enemy is occupied. some people tend to ignore or not notice the "Our Resurrection Shrine is under attack!" or the fact that the Priest's health bar is going down on the Party window. i've done it before XD
some people do in fact use IWAY to gain "quick" fame so they can get into "better" IWAY groups and eventually find their way up to the top of the Rank ladder. i've heard of people who reached R3 just by using an IWAY warrior. R9 and beyond....i'm not too sure.
as for IWAY takes skill, it does take some skill. some think that out-DPSing the enemy monk isn't skill, but it is pretty tough. IWAY is a "slap together this and this and start killing" build, but it does take coordination and skill. However, the real skill is defeating IWAY.
some people do in fact use IWAY to gain "quick" fame so they can get into "better" IWAY groups and eventually find their way up to the top of the Rank ladder. i've heard of people who reached R3 just by using an IWAY warrior. R9 and beyond....i'm not too sure.
as for IWAY takes skill, it does take some skill. some think that out-DPSing the enemy monk isn't skill, but it is pretty tough. IWAY is a "slap together this and this and start killing" build, but it does take coordination and skill. However, the real skill is defeating IWAY.
Yogi's Pain
IWAY probably requires the same about of skill as a Ranger Spike. Both are basic builds that are very well thought out and easily copied. However Ranger Spike, or any spike for that mater requires very good coordination and that is where IWAY has its biggest advantage.
You can grab any 8 players and tell them the build for IWAY and they will have success. Maybe very little success at the beginning, but only the very bad players will get zero results. They do this because the skills are easy to understand and there is no need for a strong leader to count down or call targets.
My feeling is that IWAY is very easy to play and takes very little skill to play well. The main difference between a zero rank team and a R6 team is that the R6 knows the maps better. So if they meet in a relic run the R6 will probably win >80% of the time, but on the first map, I would only say 60% or so.
As for people that will never play IWAY and insist on playing balanced pugs, good luck. A lot harder to find a good balanced pug than it is to find a competant IWAY pug.
You can grab any 8 players and tell them the build for IWAY and they will have success. Maybe very little success at the beginning, but only the very bad players will get zero results. They do this because the skills are easy to understand and there is no need for a strong leader to count down or call targets.
My feeling is that IWAY is very easy to play and takes very little skill to play well. The main difference between a zero rank team and a R6 team is that the R6 knows the maps better. So if they meet in a relic run the R6 will probably win >80% of the time, but on the first map, I would only say 60% or so.
As for people that will never play IWAY and insist on playing balanced pugs, good luck. A lot harder to find a good balanced pug than it is to find a competant IWAY pug.
BigTru
I never really got it much either.
Are you saying that Warriors in general take no skill?
That Trappers take no skill?
That Orders necro take no skill?
That utility necroes take no skill?
I think if IWAY would have had 2 monks in the build, it would be perfectly acceptable to some. Kinda sad though.
Are you saying that Warriors in general take no skill?
That Trappers take no skill?
That Orders necro take no skill?
That utility necroes take no skill?
I think if IWAY would have had 2 monks in the build, it would be perfectly acceptable to some. Kinda sad though.
KANE OG
Quote:
Originally Posted by geminisaga
only a good iway team and organized that can will hall.
|
Lady Lozza
Oh dear, where to start on this one?
I agree that IWAY does take some skill, especially to get as far as HoH, and win. Well honestly lets face it, if you get to HoH you have to skill and (generally but not always) style. However I do debate the fact that it takes as much skill as a "balanced team".
Now before you decide to jump down my throat you might actually want to think for a moment.
IWAY can work with pugs, it can work without ts/vent, it can work with players who have only the vaguest idea of what they are doing. Why? IWAY is a build which allows (effectively) only a single mode of play. The mambers of the team use their skills and go at it. Period. It doesn't really matter all that much what type of team they are facing. Priority targets might change but that is where it ends. The method (regardless of the map) is still basically the same.
"Balanced teams" do not have this luxury. Their tactics strongly depend on the team they are facing. A "balanced team" might own IWAY in one round and then be owned by a balanced team in another. One small mistake can cost a "balanced team" the map. This is not completely true with IWAY. With IWAY one member can go down and the team is (generally) not worse for wear, one member of a "balanced" team going down can often spell disaster. A "balanced team" relies so much on communication and co-ordination that it truly is a TEAM effort. With IWAY it can simply be enough to do what your "position" demands of you.
The simple fact of the matter is that if you had an pug IWAY team and a pug balanced team fighting it out, and neither have access to any real form of communication, there is (almost) absolutely no doubt that IWAY would win - but of course stranger things have happened.
Oh, it does take skill to win HoH with IWAY - and I thoroughly congradulate those who do, but it does NOT take skill to win many of the map areas leading up to it.
I agree that IWAY does take some skill, especially to get as far as HoH, and win. Well honestly lets face it, if you get to HoH you have to skill and (generally but not always) style. However I do debate the fact that it takes as much skill as a "balanced team".
Now before you decide to jump down my throat you might actually want to think for a moment.
IWAY can work with pugs, it can work without ts/vent, it can work with players who have only the vaguest idea of what they are doing. Why? IWAY is a build which allows (effectively) only a single mode of play. The mambers of the team use their skills and go at it. Period. It doesn't really matter all that much what type of team they are facing. Priority targets might change but that is where it ends. The method (regardless of the map) is still basically the same.
"Balanced teams" do not have this luxury. Their tactics strongly depend on the team they are facing. A "balanced team" might own IWAY in one round and then be owned by a balanced team in another. One small mistake can cost a "balanced team" the map. This is not completely true with IWAY. With IWAY one member can go down and the team is (generally) not worse for wear, one member of a "balanced" team going down can often spell disaster. A "balanced team" relies so much on communication and co-ordination that it truly is a TEAM effort. With IWAY it can simply be enough to do what your "position" demands of you.
The simple fact of the matter is that if you had an pug IWAY team and a pug balanced team fighting it out, and neither have access to any real form of communication, there is (almost) absolutely no doubt that IWAY would win - but of course stranger things have happened.
Oh, it does take skill to win HoH with IWAY - and I thoroughly congradulate those who do, but it does NOT take skill to win many of the map areas leading up to it.
chris_nin00
Here's what I think of IWAY.
Pick up groups lose because of one crucial thing - Coordination. Most pickup groups lack coordination. IWAY is popular because...
...it requires little to none coordination.
Steps
1. Run in and attack like all warriors do.
2. IWAY
3. Rinse and Repeat.
Lots of people use it because of a couple of things.
-It works
-It's easy
Because of the lack of uncoordinated teams, many counters to IWAY cannot be implemented. The metagame isn't going anywhere, besides the modified IWAY teams. I can't give a really good example about this one, so you can kill me on this .
I think I've posted a longer statement somewhere else.
Pick up groups lose because of one crucial thing - Coordination. Most pickup groups lack coordination. IWAY is popular because...
...it requires little to none coordination.
Steps
1. Run in and attack like all warriors do.
2. IWAY
3. Rinse and Repeat.
Lots of people use it because of a couple of things.
-It works
-It's easy
Because of the lack of uncoordinated teams, many counters to IWAY cannot be implemented. The metagame isn't going anywhere, besides the modified IWAY teams. I can't give a really good example about this one, so you can kill me on this .
I think I've posted a longer statement somewhere else.
LifeInfusion
I think it stems from the fact that most warriors are w/mo's WITHOUT enchantment removal or any form of damage other than physical (with esception of judge's insight and strength of honor). And most IWAY W/R's are those W/Mos after farming and using skill points to change secondaries.
And most teams do not bring wards & weakening skills like enfeeble or enervating charge (some of my favorite skills). Wards =IWAY dead.
*cough* <-- warden here*cough*
And most teams do not bring wards & weakening skills like enfeeble or enervating charge (some of my favorite skills). Wards =IWAY dead.
*cough* <-- warden here*cough*
{IceFire}
i mostly agree with OP....
Two April Mornings
new IWAY with the orders and tainters doing heal party and other heal spams can really beat almost anything...although its just to farm fame
Misc Merik
Wow shortly after reading this exact same thread name in TGH I come here and tada here it is again. I assume you didnt like how they reacted to your post. As far as the iway doesnt take skill noobz sux up teh halls with it debate Ive read plenty of threads on why people dont care about rank and let new people try thier best gg type stuff. Thing is this is not what I see when I go to hoh there is no room for new players with the rank system in existance. In my oppinion Iway is just making some people notice how truly stupid the rank = skill thing is when you can load up some war/r,necros,and some trappers and do just as well if not better than the beloved coined phrase "balanced groups" do after all look at MATH they do great with iway its a matter of coordination and someone having the balls to step up and be a leader instead of a mindless madhatchet u r give me orders i go kill teh things for the shiny deer soon r be mine type group you see running around. What makes people accuse it of being a noob build is the fact it is so painfully easy to put together and do just as well as groups that have spent hours on thiers granted when done right will roll an iway anyway but in terms of time it takes to put together vs success iway is the death of the bad pug teams you use to see during the reign of air spike and spirit spamming. Ive just gotten use to the pretty new form the noob pugs have taken "iway". Let the kids have thier deer while the rest of us enjoy the pvp part of HoH unless you really want the shiny deer :P.
fallot
(Not trying to be a smartass). A more readable version since I liked that post....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misc Merik
Wow, shortly after reading this exact same thread name in TGH I come here and tada here it is again. I assume you didnt like how they reacted to your post.
I've read plenty of threads on why people dont care about rank and let new people try their best. Thing is, this is not what I see when I go to HoH. There is no room for new players with the rank system in existance. In my opinion IWAY is just making some people notice how truly stupid the rank = skill thing is when you can load up some W/R, Necros,and some trappers and do just as well if not better than those beloved "balanced groups" do. After all look at MATH; they do great with IWAY. Its more a matter of coordination and someone having the balls to step up and be a leader instead of a mindless deer-farming mob. What makes people accuse it of being a noob build is the fact that it is so painfully easy to put together and does just as well as groups that have spent hours on their builds (which when done right will roll an IWAY anyway). However, in terms of time it takes to put together vs success, IWAY is the death of the bad PUG teams you use to see during the reign of air spike and spirit spamming. I've just gotten used to the pretty new form the noob PUGs have taken... "iway". Let the kids have thier deer while the rest of us enjoy the PvP part of HoH (unless you really want the shiny deer :P.) |
SilentAssassin
I understand why ppl don't like IWAY, but most of these ppl got a very nice guild wich they can play every night with.
I am in this position to, I got a great guild not to say the best and I don't need IWAY for playing tombs.
But for alot ppl IWAY is just a way to learn how tombs work, they don't have the luxury (spelling:s) that others have with a good guild. Thats why they choose for IWAY, the simple way not much coordination, don't need TS or vent, don't need a leader... those are only advantages for a PUG team.
I've been in a couple IWAY team to and I got to say it was really fun, who doesn't like to play these hak and slash games from time to time
For ppl fame farming... oh well thats their choose, I've never found rank that important.
I am in this position to, I got a great guild not to say the best and I don't need IWAY for playing tombs.
But for alot ppl IWAY is just a way to learn how tombs work, they don't have the luxury (spelling:s) that others have with a good guild. Thats why they choose for IWAY, the simple way not much coordination, don't need TS or vent, don't need a leader... those are only advantages for a PUG team.
I've been in a couple IWAY team to and I got to say it was really fun, who doesn't like to play these hak and slash games from time to time
For ppl fame farming... oh well thats their choose, I've never found rank that important.
Tricose
used by order necros to keep there health up. Now the take heal party for the rest of the team. Another thing iway has going for it is the lack of nurfing. to nurf iway would mean nerfing at least 3 character classes making the game less fun all round. if nerfing ever did take place warriors necros and rangers would find there basic skills unusable for pvp and pve.
Defendpeace Necros
Please, dont write things when u have no idea on what are u writing, as an EX pro IWAY-er reading this things make me laugh, first:
1. make an iway grp, go in tombs win 1 or 2 maps than repeat?? LOL that is the stupidest thing i read, who would do such a dumbass thing, its not like farming griffons LOL
2. IWAY can win and can hold halls, u just need experienced coordinated team, and must be on Vent or TS, but noone seems to do that.
anyway im not defending IWAY i dont play it anymore, i was in IWAY only guild but that is the thing of the past now. a lot of us grinded till R9 i know that is totaly noob and lame but we sure didnt did it like you described, wining 2 or 3 maps, losing and going again ROFL, it was mostly 8-9 consecutive wins.
1. make an iway grp, go in tombs win 1 or 2 maps than repeat?? LOL that is the stupidest thing i read, who would do such a dumbass thing, its not like farming griffons LOL
2. IWAY can win and can hold halls, u just need experienced coordinated team, and must be on Vent or TS, but noone seems to do that.
anyway im not defending IWAY i dont play it anymore, i was in IWAY only guild but that is the thing of the past now. a lot of us grinded till R9 i know that is totaly noob and lame but we sure didnt did it like you described, wining 2 or 3 maps, losing and going again ROFL, it was mostly 8-9 consecutive wins.
Fantomvz
Very nice and very detail analysis. Loved =)
Personally I do better with either Ranger or Nec Spiker teams.
The difficulty or the skill require in an IWAY team is not all the same, depends on the Professions I would give a rank of difficulty of 1 ~10.
1 = easiest to play,
10 = hardest to be good at.
Order (Nec) -> 10
Taint (Nec) -> 8
Tapper (R) -> 6
IWAY (War – Caller) -> 5
IWAY (War – EoE1) -> 3
IWAY (War – Sprint) -> 2
IWAY (War – Other) -> 0
An IWAY war who are balmily get into R3, which know nothing of how each map is worked, or the meaning of team work. Does not deserve their Rank, but Nec or Ranger I would argue for a different case.
Personally I do better with either Ranger or Nec Spiker teams.
The difficulty or the skill require in an IWAY team is not all the same, depends on the Professions I would give a rank of difficulty of 1 ~10.
1 = easiest to play,
10 = hardest to be good at.
Order (Nec) -> 10
Taint (Nec) -> 8
Tapper (R) -> 6
IWAY (War – Caller) -> 5
IWAY (War – EoE1) -> 3
IWAY (War – Sprint) -> 2
IWAY (War – Other) -> 0
An IWAY war who are balmily get into R3, which know nothing of how each map is worked, or the meaning of team work. Does not deserve their Rank, but Nec or Ranger I would argue for a different case.
SirJackassIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohooiam
The majority of the Guild Wars community (especially on the forums) feels that IWAY has allowed "unskilled" players to achieve a high rank undeservingly and ruined the fame / rank system. This theory holds no truth.
|
Quote:
An analysis into each map would reveal that an IWAY build is at a disadvantage in all but 2 maps. |
Quote:
Take two teams equal in ability, one is IWAY, another is a balanced build. Put them in a map in which annihilation is not the objective. Wouldn’t it be logical to conclude that the IWAY team will lose in this situation? |
Quote:
Wouldn’t it be logical to say that the skill and ability of the IWAY team was much greater than the teams they faced? |
Quote:
Teams that lose to IWAY should not be quick to jump to the conclusion that IWAY is a “cheap tactic”, but rethink their play strategy. |
Quote:
I believe the rants / flames against IWAY players are misguided. Admittedly, the average IWAYer has diluted the rank 6 to 7 crowd, the rank 9+ IWAYers deserve some respect in that they were able to outplay teams on maps in which they are at a disadvantage. Winning with IWAY (the way I see it) does take some skill. |
"Winning with IWAY" as in reaching/grinding to rank 9, still proves only one thing. They can run an Axe Warrior build. Sadly enough, too many people that grinded their way to rank 9 with IWAY also think they can effectively run a Monk, Ele, or any other class in Tombs. Upon that, if they grinded their way there (even with 2-3 victories per run, they were still grinding), it's also possible they know very little about team play.
However, from what I've seen, there are several ways to play IWAY, all determening their success and skill.
The average PUG in Tombs that went on screaming "Forming IWAY group, need xx, yy, and zz" learns nothing from playing IWAY. They also lack skill and team play. This team rarely wins Hall, except if they're extremely lucky.
The coordinated/modded IWAY, such as bringing in a Monk, or running "Fear Me" as well, has somewhat a better sense of what they're doing. The team has some skills that matter for the team, not just keeping themselves alive, but the Necros and monk as well. Because it's not the standard IWAY, their chance of success increases as well.
Then there is the coordinated Guild IWAY. Math is the best example. Having no skill didn't get them so far up the Guild Ladder today. Back in the days they played Tombs, they pretty much held Hall at will.
So, depending on what group you play mostly, IWAY may or may not be an indication to skill. Fact is, most groups are the average PUG IWAY group, and a lot of new players use IWAY to get rank so they can get into R6+ groups, due to PvP'ers' elitist nature of asking for Rank before anyting else. Sadly enough, they don't check how good you know your build and how you run it, which is a better indication of skill than the flashy Rank emote.
Tortoise
I don't feel like posting a huge reply so here is the quick summary:
it takes a lot more skill to a beat an Iway then to play an Iway.
it takes a lot more skill to a beat an Iway then to play an Iway.
darkMishkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohooiam
The majority of the Guild Wars community (especially on the forums) feels that IWAY has allowed "unskilled" players to achieve a high rank undeservingly and ruined the fame / rank system. This theory holds no truth.
|
EDIT:
Al Capone concerning IWAY:
"You can get further with a kind word and an axe than you can with just a kind word."
geminisaga
u still need skill to play iway , none of the build req no skill to play with. if u lose to iway that because they better than u and more organize
Xx Devour Xx
Everyday I hear people complaining that they got beat by iway and that it sucks and requires no skill... Well if iway requires no skill and organization how come u cant beat iway teams??? I mean some iway teams sucks but other like math and prav are hard to beat, so please dont say iway requires no skill beecause if it didnt u would be able to beat it
Tortoise
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx Devour Xx
Everyday I hear people complaining that they got beat by iway and that it sucks and requires no skill... Well if iway requires no skill and organization how come u cant beat iway teams??? I mean some iway teams sucks but other like math and prav are hard to beat, so please dont say iway requires no skill beecause if it didnt u would be able to beat it
|
Vaga
It doesn't require skill losing to it means someone made a mistake which could be due to a number of things, or you were too dumb to bring counters for it. Whats wrong with bringing counters for warriors anyway?
Its already been said how iway ruined ranks so i wont go into that. But have you ever thought people who find hacking and slashing boring might want to find a balanced group and can't because its all iway iway iway? Or the balanced group that wants to fight a different build every match rather than mimicing the same thing all the way to HoH where you might find someone else running a different build/strategy to iway along the way...?
It could maybe just be nerfed so that the casual groups dont work anymore...the ones who dont have a strategy like heal party but just use the very un-coordinated build. No one would have a problem with iwayers who have diversified some what...like MATH...but its the pugs that really dont require much that are annoying and are what people want gone.
Lets say some newbie group gets rolled 5 times by balanced, so a few people say...k screw iway lets go balanced. Oh look there are no balanced pugs..."looking for 1 iway war spammmm" ah well maybe if i grind some more fame i can get one.
Its already been said how iway ruined ranks so i wont go into that. But have you ever thought people who find hacking and slashing boring might want to find a balanced group and can't because its all iway iway iway? Or the balanced group that wants to fight a different build every match rather than mimicing the same thing all the way to HoH where you might find someone else running a different build/strategy to iway along the way...?
It could maybe just be nerfed so that the casual groups dont work anymore...the ones who dont have a strategy like heal party but just use the very un-coordinated build. No one would have a problem with iwayers who have diversified some what...like MATH...but its the pugs that really dont require much that are annoying and are what people want gone.
Lets say some newbie group gets rolled 5 times by balanced, so a few people say...k screw iway lets go balanced. Oh look there are no balanced pugs..."looking for 1 iway war spammmm" ah well maybe if i grind some more fame i can get one.
mishop
The easiest way to get fame is to go IWAY.
Easiest meaning:
- the way that takes the least knowledge of the game
- the way that requires the least skill/rune unlocks
- the way that takes the least coordination
...I don't think its unreasonable to translate that to - the way that takes the least skill.
Try joining a non-IWAY, non-trap pug and see how long it takes you and how well you do.
Easiest meaning:
- the way that takes the least knowledge of the game
- the way that requires the least skill/rune unlocks
- the way that takes the least coordination
...I don't think its unreasonable to translate that to - the way that takes the least skill.
Try joining a non-IWAY, non-trap pug and see how long it takes you and how well you do.
dawnrain
I don't know if IWAY has devalued Fame. Perhaps the answer lies in this experiment...
Go to Hero's Ascent and offer to pay gold for fame farming. (There was a recent post mentioning this) See what kinds of builds are used and how many games they win.
Maybe if the fame system had been structured differently, fame devaluation would not have happened. What if you only acquired fame after winning halls or after winning consecutive games equal to rank divided by 2?
Go to Hero's Ascent and offer to pay gold for fame farming. (There was a recent post mentioning this) See what kinds of builds are used and how many games they win.
Maybe if the fame system had been structured differently, fame devaluation would not have happened. What if you only acquired fame after winning halls or after winning consecutive games equal to rank divided by 2?
Vermilion Okeanos
In my opinion, there are almost no difference between a newbie player of a high ranking guild and an IWAY player. Both of them did not deserve the fame, or both of them deserve the fame (depending on personal view). Neither of them had much contributions.
It still make my eye sore when I see people are trying to recruit base on rank.
Fame/rank was never that good of a measuring system to begin with. There are people who can learn and remember in one try, they would have experience and critical think beyond even most rank 9. The only reason the guy was rank 0 is because he hasn't been able to play so much yet.
Now with observation mode on, people can learn even more outside of rank.
It still make my eye sore when I see people are trying to recruit base on rank.
Fame/rank was never that good of a measuring system to begin with. There are people who can learn and remember in one try, they would have experience and critical think beyond even most rank 9. The only reason the guy was rank 0 is because he hasn't been able to play so much yet.
Now with observation mode on, people can learn even more outside of rank.
geminisaga
you play more u get more u play less u got less
Optime
My opinions:
Personally, I IWAY because I want fame, so that I can get R3, so that I can play with all of those R3+ groups, and also so that I can gain a basic understanding of the many maps that one encounters in HoH. I would actually like to join a PvP guild, since my current guild is usually more focused towards PvE. I think that it would probably be more fun playing balanced than it is playing IWAY, since balanced required more tactics changes than IWAY, which can become a bit repetitive.
Just my opinions and views,
Thanks,
Zanpaku To
- Iway requires some skill, however, I believe that it takes more skill to make a balanced team.
- As people have said, IWAY is easy for people because it allows them to gain the fame that seems to be much needed these days, if you are to get into an organised group (non-guild)
- IWAY must require *some* skill, since you have groups that will repeatedly lose, and then you have other IWAY teams who may win a few more every time. Maybe the skill required isn't much, but it's still there.
Personally, I IWAY because I want fame, so that I can get R3, so that I can play with all of those R3+ groups, and also so that I can gain a basic understanding of the many maps that one encounters in HoH. I would actually like to join a PvP guild, since my current guild is usually more focused towards PvE. I think that it would probably be more fun playing balanced than it is playing IWAY, since balanced required more tactics changes than IWAY, which can become a bit repetitive.
Just my opinions and views,
Thanks,
Zanpaku To
Medion
I play IWAY too, and it does take some skill. Maybe not as much skill as a prot monk or warder, but it does take some skill.
I now have 102 fame, about 40 fame done by W/R and 10 fame by trapping in IWAY. I know im not a good warder, not yet! So how should I learn to become for example a good warder? I have no rank-emote, who will take me into their group?
Yes, there are some that form a balanced team for no-ranks, but if you want to find one, good luck with it. I might come across one once a day, and then it's still a question if I like to play the role/can play the role.
And as a trapper in IWAY, does that make me a bad trapper for a balanced group that wants a trapper? Come on, that's very stupid if you think that, cause my job will be the same there as in IWAY.
I now have 102 fame, about 40 fame done by W/R and 10 fame by trapping in IWAY. I know im not a good warder, not yet! So how should I learn to become for example a good warder? I have no rank-emote, who will take me into their group?
Yes, there are some that form a balanced team for no-ranks, but if you want to find one, good luck with it. I might come across one once a day, and then it's still a question if I like to play the role/can play the role.
And as a trapper in IWAY, does that make me a bad trapper for a balanced group that wants a trapper? Come on, that's very stupid if you think that, cause my job will be the same there as in IWAY.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx Devour Xx
if iway requires no skill and organization how come u cant beat iway teams???
|
leeky baby
[/QUOTE]
An analysis into each map would reveal that an IWAY build is at a disadvantage in all but 2 maps.
1. Altar - IWAY cannot heal the ghost
2. Relic - IWAY cannot heal the relic runner
3. Priest - IWAY cannot heal the priest
4. Annihilation (Underworld / Scarred Earth) - Only in this map is IWAY on equal footing.
[/QUOTE]
1. they body block the other ghost, then killing it only way they normally win.
2.the two trappers makes it hard to get a runner from the otehr team, without him being killed.
3.Ya the priest can be a problem but with most iway matchs ur gunna beat um alot of ur gunna die quick
COnclusion: Iway is a QUICK and UNSKILLED way of getting fame, they have no experience in other proffesions making teams they join which isnt IWAY a BAD team because they are letting it DOWN.
Iway gets owned alot if you know how to beat them, i have not lost to iway for many months only on rare occasions when mistakes were made ect.
Iway normally win on luck!
An analysis into each map would reveal that an IWAY build is at a disadvantage in all but 2 maps.
1. Altar - IWAY cannot heal the ghost
2. Relic - IWAY cannot heal the relic runner
3. Priest - IWAY cannot heal the priest
4. Annihilation (Underworld / Scarred Earth) - Only in this map is IWAY on equal footing.
[/QUOTE]
1. they body block the other ghost, then killing it only way they normally win.
2.the two trappers makes it hard to get a runner from the otehr team, without him being killed.
3.Ya the priest can be a problem but with most iway matchs ur gunna beat um alot of ur gunna die quick
COnclusion: Iway is a QUICK and UNSKILLED way of getting fame, they have no experience in other proffesions making teams they join which isnt IWAY a BAD team because they are letting it DOWN.
Iway gets owned alot if you know how to beat them, i have not lost to iway for many months only on rare occasions when mistakes were made ect.
Iway normally win on luck!
reboot
Nothing in this thread proves IWAY takes skill. The author probally likes to play IWAY and thinks hes good and skilled so he makes this thread.
This might as well be a thread about how PvE takes Skill, it would make as much sense.
Everyone knows Rank means nothing, IWAY is for Noobs, and HoH has been a joke for ever, ZOMG why does Everyone know this...cause ItS true.
K thx bai
This might as well be a thread about how PvE takes Skill, it would make as much sense.
Everyone knows Rank means nothing, IWAY is for Noobs, and HoH has been a joke for ever, ZOMG why does Everyone know this...cause ItS true.
K thx bai
geminisaga
Quote:
Originally Posted by reboot
Nothing in this thread proves IWAY takes skill. The author probally likes to play IWAY and thinks hes good and skilled so he makes this thread.
This might as well be a thread about how PvE takes Skill, it would make as much sense. Everyone knows Rank means nothing, IWAY is for Noobs, and HoH has been a joke for ever, ZOMG why does Everyone know this...cause ItS true. K thx bai |
imaginary friend
Quote:
Originally Posted by geminisaga
only a good iway team and organized that can will hall.
|
Cyan The Archer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricose
used by order necros to keep there health up. Now the take heal party for the rest of the team. Another thing iway has going for it is the lack of nurfing. to nurf iway would mean nerfing at least 3 character classes making the game less fun all round. if nerfing ever did take place warriors necros and rangers would find there basic skills unusable for pvp and pve.
|
I think Exe Strike and Eviscrate need a nerf, since 2x100dmg on a monk in no time + Deep Wound + Good armor for the warrior, sounds a bit overpowered to me. And the adrenaline for Eviscrate and Exe Strike is just going up again quite fast with Tiger's or Frenzy. For some reason i see most IWAY players talking with the "Leet language" and/or having strange character names.
I think that the trappers in iway take the highest skill, since you will have to know who will be good to trap - Blinding the warrior, KD to the monk etc.
This of course is coming from an experienced trapper like me, so other might find what im saying wrong. The trapper in balanced suddenly take alot more skill, since you will have to know what will be good for all the different kind of proffesions.
I will have to admit that i once played IWAY trapper, and i got to the map before HoH(Which were the first time i ever came further than 2 maps). I didnt think "Yeh! I got to try this again! It owns!" but i realized that i had not much skill when i joined the IWAY team, and i even got to the second last map. I thought that this arent going to give me much experience, so i never joined an iway group again. Even when all districts are spamming "LF IWAY!".. Which is another problem, since you will meet at least 2 IWAY teams on the way to HoH.. and it just makes PvP boring.
Dr Ripley
I'm not really on the "I hate IWAY' bandwagon, but I'm not really fond of it either. Playing is playing to me, but I spent over a month spamming "Healer LFG", or "Mesmer such & such LFG" and got next to nothing in response. I've got almost 4 mil xp on some my chars via pve, yet I don't have enough fame to get into any groups at all since I couldn't get into any groups in the first place. And most of the balanced groups that WERE looking for people required R6+ or something more ridiculous just to get in. So guess what? Whether it takes skill or not, you're still going to see my crappy pvp nec spamming "Orders Nec LFG" every night because that's the only way I can get enough fame to actually use my main characters again. I'm curious as to how many other people actually play IWAY because of this reason...
geminisaga
Quote:
Originally Posted by reboot
Everyone knows Rank means nothing, IWAY is for Noobs, and HoH has been a joke for ever, ZOMG why does Everyone know this...cause ItS true. |
Vaga
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyan The Archer
IWAY is based on 8 Axe Warriors just doing dmg. The order, the tainted and the trapper dont need any nerf(The orders might get a nerf because of R-Spike). It's not that i hate IWAY, i just hate the Warriors! The only top 100 teams i have seen not using the Axe Warrior, have been R-Spike teams and the guild Necro Raiders.
I think Exe Strike and Eviscrate need a nerf, since 2x100dmg on a monk in no time + Deep Wound + Good armor for the warrior, sounds a bit overpowered to me. And the adrenaline for Eviscrate and Exe Strike is just going up again quite fast with Tiger's or Frenzy. For some reason i see most IWAY players talking with the "Leet language" and/or having strange character names. |