Mesmer (secondary doesn't matter, pick Warrior if you want to be left alone a bit (IW))
Attributes:
Fast Casting: 15
Inspiration Magic: 16
Rogues Armor
Spells:
1.) Arcane Echo
2.) Energy Drain {E}
3.) Energy Tap
4.) Ether Lord
5.) Drain Enchantment
6.) Spirit Shackles
7.) Ether Feast
8.) Rez Sig
STRAGETY: Cast Arcane Echo, and cast Energy Drain twice on a monk, so in less than 3 seconds, that's already 20 energy gone.
Then add the finishing touches with Energy Tap and Ether Lord. At this point, you should start focusing on another target because in less than about 5 seconds the monk has been rendered completely useless. Not only that, but you should constantly be up at near full energy if not already! Next target, the Ranger!
Rangers without energy are pretty much done. Just Spirit Shackles them, and keep sapping their energy until Ether Lord comes back. Cast that on the Ranger with Spirit Shackles, and at this point you can go check up on the monk.
In case Warriors ever charge you, just throw up Spirit Shackles and perhaps Arcane Echo Ether Feast and you should be fine.
This build will be tweaked for near perfection.
Energy Sapper
Wretchman Drake
Lady Lozza
This is rather similar to the build I use, the main difference being that I mix some dom. spells in:
1. Arcane Echo
2. Energy Burn
3. Signet of Weariness
4. Signet of Humility/Arcane Conudrum/*
5. Ether Lord
6. Energy Drain {E}
7. Ether Feast
8. Res
I play around with spot #4, sometimes I take Power Leak.
The only problem of course, is BiP, however I've found that most teams do not have a battery in the arena - which bothers me somewhat when I play my monk :s
1. Arcane Echo
2. Energy Burn
3. Signet of Weariness
4. Signet of Humility/Arcane Conudrum/*
5. Ether Lord
6. Energy Drain {E}
7. Ether Feast
8. Res
I play around with spot #4, sometimes I take Power Leak.
The only problem of course, is BiP, however I've found that most teams do not have a battery in the arena - which bothers me somewhat when I play my monk :s
Vaga
How are you draining 20 energy with no points in dom magic? If thats a typo won't you be shutdown incredibly easy with almost no fast casting?
Siliconwafer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake
STRAGETY: Cast Arcane Echo, and cast Energy Drain twice on a monk, so in less than 3 seconds, that's already 20 energy gone bye bye. HOLY ****!!!
Then add the finishing touches with Energy Tap and Ether Lord. At this point, you should start focusing on another target because in less than about 5 seconds the monk has been rendered completely useless. Not only that, but you should constantly be up at near full energy if not already! Next target, the Ranger!
<snip>
I love this build because it's almost fullproof. So many things you can do to totally change the outcome of the battle. As long as your team can dish decent damage, you should win. Best part, it's the quickest and most efficient shutdown build. I mean come on, shutting down a monk completely in 5 seconds is pretty nice to do, especially when they're useless for about 20 seconds or so. Oh, dear me.
In all reality, only the most inexperienced of monks will fall victim to this combo. Truly. You sap the monk's first energy pool of ~40 energy. What then? What if the monk switches to +15/-1 energy focus item(s), as any self respectable PvP monk should have-and then cast something like OoB? In this case, the monk is not shut down at all.
Personally, I would expect a competent monk to be shut down for 1.5 seconds MAX after you finish casting Ether Lord. Certainly a tad annoying, but hardly an uber shutdown build.
With your build, you cannot keep a monk on low energy. E-Drain and E-Tap have huge cooldown times (30s), which makes it very undesirable to have only one (two if you count the Arc.Echo) copy of them on a build.
With this sort of aim, combined with this sort of build, you should be aiming at keeping a monk at low energies. Focus swapping-ignoring the fact that half of the CA monks don't know what this means-will fool this beast for sure.
Maybe before the E-Drain/E-Tap skill balance, this would have worked. But definitely not now. I'm sorry, but Lady Lozza's build, IMO, is better.
Then add the finishing touches with Energy Tap and Ether Lord. At this point, you should start focusing on another target because in less than about 5 seconds the monk has been rendered completely useless. Not only that, but you should constantly be up at near full energy if not already! Next target, the Ranger!
<snip>
I love this build because it's almost fullproof. So many things you can do to totally change the outcome of the battle. As long as your team can dish decent damage, you should win. Best part, it's the quickest and most efficient shutdown build. I mean come on, shutting down a monk completely in 5 seconds is pretty nice to do, especially when they're useless for about 20 seconds or so. Oh, dear me.
In all reality, only the most inexperienced of monks will fall victim to this combo. Truly. You sap the monk's first energy pool of ~40 energy. What then? What if the monk switches to +15/-1 energy focus item(s), as any self respectable PvP monk should have-and then cast something like OoB? In this case, the monk is not shut down at all.
Personally, I would expect a competent monk to be shut down for 1.5 seconds MAX after you finish casting Ether Lord. Certainly a tad annoying, but hardly an uber shutdown build.
With your build, you cannot keep a monk on low energy. E-Drain and E-Tap have huge cooldown times (30s), which makes it very undesirable to have only one (two if you count the Arc.Echo) copy of them on a build.
With this sort of aim, combined with this sort of build, you should be aiming at keeping a monk at low energies. Focus swapping-ignoring the fact that half of the CA monks don't know what this means-will fool this beast for sure.
Maybe before the E-Drain/E-Tap skill balance, this would have worked. But definitely not now. I'm sorry, but Lady Lozza's build, IMO, is better.
Avarre
Works better with Domination line imho... considering eDrain is not only less powerful, it does no damage to the target. If you've got the monk 240 hps down (echoed surge and burn), then that has to be healed back up, out of their energy pool. And mind wrack... I wouldn't try playing edenial without mindwrack (again, they have to heal out of their dwindling energy, or they die). Also to note is that Echo Weariness gives an AoE -20 energy, and with mantra of inscriptions as well you can do this quite fast.
Get mantra of inscriptions and signet of humility in there, that will shut down a monks OoB permanently at 12 insp or higher, and also does helpful little things like removing a warriors eviscerate, turning an IW mesmer into a little prissy with a sharp stick, and often devastating most builds.
Thats not to say the build won't work, with shackles and draining this would play merry hell with rangers and warriors, but then what... you can't do anything to them. In CA, I wouldn't trust a party to be able to capitalize on the low energy of a char (thats assuming they dont have maintainance to counter it), and in higher than CA, monks aren't clueless. Worst case, you shut down a monk and they just run away until they have energy again.
Get mantra of inscriptions and signet of humility in there, that will shut down a monks OoB permanently at 12 insp or higher, and also does helpful little things like removing a warriors eviscerate, turning an IW mesmer into a little prissy with a sharp stick, and often devastating most builds.
Thats not to say the build won't work, with shackles and draining this would play merry hell with rangers and warriors, but then what... you can't do anything to them. In CA, I wouldn't trust a party to be able to capitalize on the low energy of a char (thats assuming they dont have maintainance to counter it), and in higher than CA, monks aren't clueless. Worst case, you shut down a monk and they just run away until they have energy again.
Crimson Eyes
impossible to have 16,16 as u need the headgear which gives you +1 to the attribute u want 16 with.
Burakus Lightwing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaga
How are you draining 20 energy with no points in dom magic? If thats a typo won't you be shutdown incredibly easy with almost no fast casting?
Inspiration magic= big time energy denial
Burakus Lightwing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siliconwafer
With this sort of aim, combined with this sort of build, you should be aiming at keeping a monk at low energies. Focus swapping-ignoring the fact that half of the CA monks don't know what this means-will fool this beast for sure.
Maybe before the E-Drain/E-Tap skill balance, this would have worked. But definitely not now. I'm sorry, but Lady Lozza's build, IMO, is better. I will agree with keeping at low energy. However, I did see this build in use first hand, by Wretchamn himself and it is very very good. The Monk(s) were uselss as well as many Rangers.
This IS a support build.
Personally I prefer Wretch's over Lady's. No Enchantment removal in Lady's? and you like it better? Mesmer should shut down a monk and that includes getting rid of enchantments. Plus with inspiration that high it is nice energy renewal for you to cast more energy sucking spells with. I know you'll counter that enchantments can be thrown back up..at the cost of depleting an already depleted energy pool. Maybe you are an Uber monk who can handle having low energy. But really now, how long will you last with little energy and at least 2 others pounding on you?
Maybe before the E-Drain/E-Tap skill balance, this would have worked. But definitely not now. I'm sorry, but Lady Lozza's build, IMO, is better. I will agree with keeping at low energy. However, I did see this build in use first hand, by Wretchamn himself and it is very very good. The Monk(s) were uselss as well as many Rangers.
This IS a support build.
Personally I prefer Wretch's over Lady's. No Enchantment removal in Lady's? and you like it better? Mesmer should shut down a monk and that includes getting rid of enchantments. Plus with inspiration that high it is nice energy renewal for you to cast more energy sucking spells with. I know you'll counter that enchantments can be thrown back up..at the cost of depleting an already depleted energy pool. Maybe you are an Uber monk who can handle having low energy. But really now, how long will you last with little energy and at least 2 others pounding on you?
holden
"At this point, you should start focusing on another target because in less than about 5 seconds the monk has been rendered completely useless.
Rangers without energy are pretty much done. Just Spirit Shackles them, and keep sapping their energy until Ether Lord comes back. Cast that on the Ranger with Spirit Shackles, and at this point you can go check up on the monk.
In case Warriors ever charge you, just throw up Spirit Shackles and perhaps Arcane Echo Ether Feast and you should be fine.
I love this build because it's almost fullproof.
Best part, it's the quickest and most efficient shutdown build.
I mean come on, shutting down a monk completely in 5 seconds is pretty nice to do, especially when they're useless for about 20 seconds or so.
Have fun with the build! I know I did the first time I shut down that monk. 5 seconds, boom, USELESS! Such a good feeling
[/QUOTE]"
spirit shackles wont help you against an adrenaline ran warrior.
-20 energy wont shut down a monk. the monk will not be 'useless' for 20 seconds
this is not the most efficient shutdown build. it's not almost fullproof.
you can't just say those things wretchman. if you do people will read your build.
'In case Warriors ever charge you, just throw up Spirit Shackles and perhaps Arcane Echo Ether Feast and you should be fine'
Rangers without energy are pretty much done. Just Spirit Shackles them, and keep sapping their energy until Ether Lord comes back. Cast that on the Ranger with Spirit Shackles, and at this point you can go check up on the monk.
In case Warriors ever charge you, just throw up Spirit Shackles and perhaps Arcane Echo Ether Feast and you should be fine.
I love this build because it's almost fullproof.
Best part, it's the quickest and most efficient shutdown build.
I mean come on, shutting down a monk completely in 5 seconds is pretty nice to do, especially when they're useless for about 20 seconds or so.
Have fun with the build! I know I did the first time I shut down that monk. 5 seconds, boom, USELESS! Such a good feeling
[/QUOTE]"spirit shackles wont help you against an adrenaline ran warrior.
-20 energy wont shut down a monk. the monk will not be 'useless' for 20 seconds
this is not the most efficient shutdown build. it's not almost fullproof.
you can't just say those things wretchman. if you do people will read your build.
'In case Warriors ever charge you, just throw up Spirit Shackles and perhaps Arcane Echo Ether Feast and you should be fine'
Wretchman Drake
thats great if this build doesnt shut u down, but if u want, i can stay on yoou sapping all of your energy the whole day, not just 5 seconds. thats only if i need to multitask. i used this build many times to make a statement, most monks ARE useless once i take their energy
agentblade
i'm really interested to know how this build can work.. with E-drain the max u can drain each time is 10 so in the first few seconds of the battle u drain 20 energy, with tap another 10, so 30, ether lord means they will be locked down at 2 pips of energy... how does tat shut the monk down for 20 seconds? 
plus have u met with interrupt rangers who spam interrupts? if so how can u say u will not be interrupted..
also with the huge recharge on drain it makes it tough to keep monks constantly at 0 energy..
last question, have u fought with monks using Offering of Blood (OoB) before?
I'm just curious to know how u made it work because on paper this build cannot work against good monks.
plus have u met with interrupt rangers who spam interrupts? if so how can u say u will not be interrupted..
also with the huge recharge on drain it makes it tough to keep monks constantly at 0 energy..
last question, have u fought with monks using Offering of Blood (OoB) before?
I'm just curious to know how u made it work because on paper this build cannot work against good monks.
Wretchman Drake
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentblade
i'm really interested to know how this build can work.. with E-drain the max u can drain each time is 10 so in the first few seconds of the battle u drain 20 energy, with tap another 10, so 30, ether lord means they will be locked down at 2 pips of energy... how does tat shut the monk down for 20 seconds?
plus have u met with interrupt rangers who spam interrupts? if so how can u say u will not be interrupted..
also with the huge recharge on drain it makes it tough to keep monks constantly at 0 energy..
last question, have u fought with monks using Offering of Blood (OoB) before?
I'm just curious to know how u made it work because on paper this build cannot work against good monks.
none of wat u said has even happened. yea OoB helped them for like 2 seconds, then they waste their own energy and i sapp it. hey u dont like build u dont gotta play it u can use watever shutdown u want but this one has had the best luck in random arenas
plus have u met with interrupt rangers who spam interrupts? if so how can u say u will not be interrupted..
also with the huge recharge on drain it makes it tough to keep monks constantly at 0 energy..
last question, have u fought with monks using Offering of Blood (OoB) before?
I'm just curious to know how u made it work because on paper this build cannot work against good monks.
none of wat u said has even happened. yea OoB helped them for like 2 seconds, then they waste their own energy and i sapp it. hey u dont like build u dont gotta play it u can use watever shutdown u want but this one has had the best luck in random arenas
holden
this build just won't steal enough energy. you'll get 20 with the first two e drains and if you're lucky enough to get that slow energy tap off you'll add another 8 or so. so lets just say 30 energy stolen from the monk. then what? what skill does this build have to really put the monk over the edge of no return after you steal 30 energy? the monk will still have 15 to 17 energy left.
ether lord is a bad skill and doesn't deserve to be on a mesmer's bar.
e drain and e tap both have a 30 second recharge. you wont see them for a while.
you could remove his enchantment and gain yourself some more energy.
you could heal yourself.
im not flamin you bro. you put out some wild statements that just aren't true.
"This has to be one of the best Energy Denial builds ever if played and managed right."
ether lord is a bad skill and doesn't deserve to be on a mesmer's bar.
e drain and e tap both have a 30 second recharge. you wont see them for a while.
you could remove his enchantment and gain yourself some more energy.
you could heal yourself.
im not flamin you bro. you put out some wild statements that just aren't true.
"This has to be one of the best Energy Denial builds ever if played and managed right."
hazmat
Thanks for sharing your build.. This looks like not a bad support build for gvg. Not particulary heavy hitting as far as energy denial goes but has some annoyance factor.
There's a lot of cooldown time inbetween those spells, including the cooldown of a-echo. Also as much as useful as ether lord is, I don't really see where this fits unless you are casting it at 30 energy or something. Lack of at least one interrupt could be an issue - spose that's not a big deal.
I'd give it a 6/10.
There's a lot of cooldown time inbetween those spells, including the cooldown of a-echo. Also as much as useful as ether lord is, I don't really see where this fits unless you are casting it at 30 energy or something. Lack of at least one interrupt could be an issue - spose that's not a big deal.
I'd give it a 6/10.
Siliconwafer
Ok. Let's take a look at how much energy this build can sap, then.
E-Drain. 9 energy/30 seconds
Arc. Echoed E-Drain 9 energy/20+30 seconds
E-Tap. 6 energy/30 seconds
Ether Lord. 9s at -3 energy pips.
Assume a monk at 40 energy. Assume that the monk uses OoB at 10 blood (+16e/15s)
You go through the chain. 9+9+6=24 energy sapped. Nine seconds after, the monk is at -3 energy regen.
4 pips of energy regen is 1.3 energy per second.
1/3*9s=3 energy gained while Ether Lord Effect lasts.
1.3*21s=27.3 energy gained until E-Drain+E-Tap used.
Add in the two OoB's you use during a 30 second timeframe: +22 energy.
27.3+3+22=52 energy by the time you're ready to do your second chain, which, btw, is not as effective as your first.
This is a hypothetical situation, of course, but it's just to illustrate how the long cooldown times on your energy denial spells will allow a monk to heal consistently through your casts.
In practice, you go through that. 24 energy sapped. A monk still has 16 energy. They cast OoB. +11 energy. They have 27 energy after you've gone through your combo. Not to mention the fact that one should always bring hex removal into anywhere you're going, so I would expect the time of that ether lord would be the time it takes to cast veil and click it off. 1.5 seconds.
E-Drain. 9 energy/30 seconds
Arc. Echoed E-Drain 9 energy/20+30 seconds
E-Tap. 6 energy/30 seconds
Ether Lord. 9s at -3 energy pips.
Assume a monk at 40 energy. Assume that the monk uses OoB at 10 blood (+16e/15s)
You go through the chain. 9+9+6=24 energy sapped. Nine seconds after, the monk is at -3 energy regen.
4 pips of energy regen is 1.3 energy per second.
1/3*9s=3 energy gained while Ether Lord Effect lasts.
1.3*21s=27.3 energy gained until E-Drain+E-Tap used.
Add in the two OoB's you use during a 30 second timeframe: +22 energy.
27.3+3+22=52 energy by the time you're ready to do your second chain, which, btw, is not as effective as your first.
This is a hypothetical situation, of course, but it's just to illustrate how the long cooldown times on your energy denial spells will allow a monk to heal consistently through your casts.
In practice, you go through that. 24 energy sapped. A monk still has 16 energy. They cast OoB. +11 energy. They have 27 energy after you've gone through your combo. Not to mention the fact that one should always bring hex removal into anywhere you're going, so I would expect the time of that ether lord would be the time it takes to cast veil and click it off. 1.5 seconds.
holden
but even if the monk doesn't remove ether lord, big deal. ether lord is just terrible. energy won't be a problem for this build until you use ether lord. at 12 inspiration it takes ALL of your energy and you'll get about 9 energy back over the next 9 seconds. all to make your foe lose another 9 energy over 9 seconds.
awful
awful
Burakus Lightwing
Sillicon- Does every monk use OoB? I don't see that many Mo/N myself. Now in that cool down time what is monk doing? running in circles from the War. or Ranger pounding on him/her? ok let's say they are. But now their energy pool is relatively depleted. What are they casting to keep themselves or thier team alive while they run and wait for that energy to recharge?- This is a SUPPORT build. I think the flamers are missing the point. As support to a dmg dealer it frees up 1-2 people to go after another target. A monk casting through that energy denial will be heavily burdened to heal themselves AND their team.
Holden I think you just enjoy flaming Wretchman- not the first time i've seen this.
If you have an issue with his exuberance and 'wording' over finding a build that worked well for him, well relax. Would you prefer that he say 'A good support energy denial build that can be used in CA/TA' ? As for Ether Lord, matter of opinion. Everyone has a skill bar they like, and Lady also had E.L. on the skill bar, so Wretch isn't the only one to find a use for it. Sillico mention OoB but I'm sure a number of monks would rather not use their Elite slot for this. Skill sets work for different people.
Agentblade- interupt Rangers- yes they can hit ANY spell caster, so what. I do too when I play a Ranger. Is that a good reply to any caster build though? I can certainly go into any caster build post on this forum and reply- interupt Ranger - done. Common now. Plus this build with fast casting at about 13 can and has seriously messed with more than a few Rangers. Play a Ranger with no energy and see how far you get...not very. Yes Interupt spammers are tough to beat, but this is a CA/TA. so let's say TA, well what happens if that other interupts spammer on his team is on you and he hit you with spirit shackles? will your monk remove the hex? or his he saving his own a$$.
Too many what if's here.
I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you see something that can be tweaked then post a suggestion.
I think Energy Tap can be removed and with just a few points in Illusion you can throw conjure phant. on that 'spell caster' or ranger and let make them work that much harder while they're losing health and have little energy. Plus with 13 fast cast it'll be hard to interupt conjure at that point.
Holden I think you just enjoy flaming Wretchman- not the first time i've seen this.
If you have an issue with his exuberance and 'wording' over finding a build that worked well for him, well relax. Would you prefer that he say 'A good support energy denial build that can be used in CA/TA' ? As for Ether Lord, matter of opinion. Everyone has a skill bar they like, and Lady also had E.L. on the skill bar, so Wretch isn't the only one to find a use for it. Sillico mention OoB but I'm sure a number of monks would rather not use their Elite slot for this. Skill sets work for different people.
Agentblade- interupt Rangers- yes they can hit ANY spell caster, so what. I do too when I play a Ranger. Is that a good reply to any caster build though? I can certainly go into any caster build post on this forum and reply- interupt Ranger - done. Common now. Plus this build with fast casting at about 13 can and has seriously messed with more than a few Rangers. Play a Ranger with no energy and see how far you get...not very. Yes Interupt spammers are tough to beat, but this is a CA/TA. so let's say TA, well what happens if that other interupts spammer on his team is on you and he hit you with spirit shackles? will your monk remove the hex? or his he saving his own a$$.
Too many what if's here.
I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you see something that can be tweaked then post a suggestion.
I think Energy Tap can be removed and with just a few points in Illusion you can throw conjure phant. on that 'spell caster' or ranger and let make them work that much harder while they're losing health and have little energy. Plus with 13 fast cast it'll be hard to interupt conjure at that point.
Wretchman Drake
Quote:
Originally Posted by holden
but even if the monk doesn't remove ether lord, big deal. ether lord is just terrible. energy won't be a problem for this build until you use ether lord. at 12 inspiration it takes ALL of your energy and you'll get about 9 energy back over the next 9 seconds. all to make your foe lose another 9 energy over 9 seconds.
awful maybe we can all group up in team arenas and u can see how badly i shut down the monks.
people! this build on paper is not appealing, so dont do that math!
JUST go play it and try it! YOU have no idea of how builds are truly played until you do so yourself. get that thru your thick headed skulls (im not naming anyone, but you should know who im talkin about).
i NEVER EVER give a review to a build that I have never tried yet. that makes for horrible, unreliable reviews. Cmon ppl copy this build and try it for the arenas because all of this "cool down" stuff NEVER happens with me. you just don't know how to play it, thats all. just practice it because on paper its a different thing, but playing it, totally new ballgame.
u think monks r sooooo uber in random arenas? wow, have you pvped lately?
awful maybe we can all group up in team arenas and u can see how badly i shut down the monks.
people! this build on paper is not appealing, so dont do that math!
JUST go play it and try it! YOU have no idea of how builds are truly played until you do so yourself. get that thru your thick headed skulls (im not naming anyone, but you should know who im talkin about).
i NEVER EVER give a review to a build that I have never tried yet. that makes for horrible, unreliable reviews. Cmon ppl copy this build and try it for the arenas because all of this "cool down" stuff NEVER happens with me. you just don't know how to play it, thats all. just practice it because on paper its a different thing, but playing it, totally new ballgame.
u think monks r sooooo uber in random arenas? wow, have you pvped lately?
Wretchman Drake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burakus Lightwing
Sillicon- Does every monk use OoB? I don't see that many Mo/N myself. Now in that cool down time what is monk doing? running in circles from the War. or Ranger pounding on him/her? ok let's say they are. But now their energy pool is relatively depleted. What are they casting to keep themselves or thier team alive while they run and wait for that energy to recharge?- This is a SUPPORT build. I think the flamers are missing the point. As support to a dmg dealer it frees up 1-2 people to go after another target. A monk casting through that energy denial will be heavily burdened to heal themselves AND their team.
Holden I think you just enjoy flaming Wretchman- not the first time i've seen this.
If you have an issue with his exuberance and 'wording' over finding a build that worked well for him, well relax. Would you prefer that he say 'A good support energy denial build that can be used in CA/TA' ? As for Ether Lord, matter of opinion. Everyone has a skill bar they like, and Lady also had E.L. on the skill bar, so Wretch isn't the only one to find a use for it. Sillico mention OoB but I'm sure a number of monks would rather not use their Elite slot for this. Skill sets work for different people.
Agentblade- interupt Rangers- yes they can hit ANY spell caster, so what. I do too when I play a Ranger. Is that a good reply to any caster build though? I can certainly go into any caster build post on this forum and reply- interupt Ranger - done. Common now. Plus this build with fast casting at about 13 can and has seriously messed with more than a few Rangers. Play a Ranger with no energy and see how far you get...not very. Yes Interupt spammers are tough to beat, but this is a CA/TA. so let's say TA, well what happens if that other interupts spammer on his team is on you and he hit you with spirit shackles? will your monk remove the hex? or his he saving his own a$$.
Too many what if's here.
I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you see something that can be tweaked then post a suggestion.
I think Energy Tap can be removed and with just a few points in Illusion you can throw conjure phant. on that 'spell caster' or ranger and let make them work that much harder while they're losing health and have little energy. Plus with 13 fast cast it'll be hard to interupt conjure at that point. You are truly full of undeniable wisdom, Burakus. FTW Burakus!
As I said, just be quiet and try it to prove yourselves wrong. This is random arenas. Not to say I also used this in Team Arenas for an hour and rendered multiple targets useless. Too many what if's. You know what I always hear for many enchantment carrying builds? REND ENCHANTMENTS! PWND!11!!!!!!1!!!1
Every build I suppose has an opposite or destroyer, and I belive this build's biggest threat is a full adrenaline based warrior.
Holden I think you just enjoy flaming Wretchman- not the first time i've seen this.
If you have an issue with his exuberance and 'wording' over finding a build that worked well for him, well relax. Would you prefer that he say 'A good support energy denial build that can be used in CA/TA' ? As for Ether Lord, matter of opinion. Everyone has a skill bar they like, and Lady also had E.L. on the skill bar, so Wretch isn't the only one to find a use for it. Sillico mention OoB but I'm sure a number of monks would rather not use their Elite slot for this. Skill sets work for different people.
Agentblade- interupt Rangers- yes they can hit ANY spell caster, so what. I do too when I play a Ranger. Is that a good reply to any caster build though? I can certainly go into any caster build post on this forum and reply- interupt Ranger - done. Common now. Plus this build with fast casting at about 13 can and has seriously messed with more than a few Rangers. Play a Ranger with no energy and see how far you get...not very. Yes Interupt spammers are tough to beat, but this is a CA/TA. so let's say TA, well what happens if that other interupts spammer on his team is on you and he hit you with spirit shackles? will your monk remove the hex? or his he saving his own a$$.
Too many what if's here.
I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you see something that can be tweaked then post a suggestion.
I think Energy Tap can be removed and with just a few points in Illusion you can throw conjure phant. on that 'spell caster' or ranger and let make them work that much harder while they're losing health and have little energy. Plus with 13 fast cast it'll be hard to interupt conjure at that point. You are truly full of undeniable wisdom, Burakus. FTW Burakus!
As I said, just be quiet and try it to prove yourselves wrong. This is random arenas. Not to say I also used this in Team Arenas for an hour and rendered multiple targets useless. Too many what if's. You know what I always hear for many enchantment carrying builds? REND ENCHANTMENTS! PWND!11!!!!!!1!!!1
Every build I suppose has an opposite or destroyer, and I belive this build's biggest threat is a full adrenaline based warrior.
holden
jesus. i believe wretchman to be a younger person. so believe me, i'm not flaming him and it's nothing personal.
but there are a lot of younger persons playing this game and they deserve to know both sides of the story. does the guild wars community really want the next generation of mesmers carrying around ether lord? thinking that this is the best way to deny energy?
if i posted a build and said things like 'quickest and most efficient shutdown build' or 'one of the best Energy Denial builds' i would expect someone to let me know when i was way off base.
i appreciate you sticking up for wretchman. but if you put a build on this forum you're opening it up for criticism.
this build isn't very good. ether lord is terrible. if you can do the math and prove me otherwise please do.
ill wash wretchman's dog
but there are a lot of younger persons playing this game and they deserve to know both sides of the story. does the guild wars community really want the next generation of mesmers carrying around ether lord? thinking that this is the best way to deny energy?
if i posted a build and said things like 'quickest and most efficient shutdown build' or 'one of the best Energy Denial builds' i would expect someone to let me know when i was way off base.
i appreciate you sticking up for wretchman. but if you put a build on this forum you're opening it up for criticism.
this build isn't very good. ether lord is terrible. if you can do the math and prove me otherwise please do.
ill wash wretchman's dog
Wretchman Drake
Quote:
Originally Posted by holden
jesus. i believe wretchman to be a younger person. so believe me, i'm not flaming him and it's nothing personal.
but there are a lot of younger persons playing this game and they deserve to know both sides of the story. does the guild wars community really want the next generation of mesmers carrying around ether lord? thinking that this is the best way to deny energy?
if i posted a build and said things like 'quickest and most efficient shutdown build' or 'one of the best Energy Denial builds' i would expect someone to let me know when i was way off base.
i appreciate you sticking up for wretchman. but if you put a build on this forum you're opening it up for criticism.
this build isn't very good. ether lord is terrible. if you can do the math and prove me otherwise please do.
ill wash wretchman's dog the problem is that your idiotic critisicm doesnt make sense, thats what. you are blindly misleading readers to thinking this is a horrible build. just screw off if you are gonna be a ***** about any of my builds. I know they perform well and thanks to them that I have my 125,000 faction, and half of that was in the summer, when you got like 5 faction for killing things, and i havent had my own computer in 3 months.
but there are a lot of younger persons playing this game and they deserve to know both sides of the story. does the guild wars community really want the next generation of mesmers carrying around ether lord? thinking that this is the best way to deny energy?
if i posted a build and said things like 'quickest and most efficient shutdown build' or 'one of the best Energy Denial builds' i would expect someone to let me know when i was way off base.
i appreciate you sticking up for wretchman. but if you put a build on this forum you're opening it up for criticism.
this build isn't very good. ether lord is terrible. if you can do the math and prove me otherwise please do.
ill wash wretchman's dog the problem is that your idiotic critisicm doesnt make sense, thats what. you are blindly misleading readers to thinking this is a horrible build. just screw off if you are gonna be a ***** about any of my builds. I know they perform well and thanks to them that I have my 125,000 faction, and half of that was in the summer, when you got like 5 faction for killing things, and i havent had my own computer in 3 months.
Avarre
You say you can shut down any monk with your insp energy drain build. That's fine, but I can do the same with my dom build, and kill them with it at the same time. If the monk swaps to -5e wep and a shield, they have essentially 17-22 energy that you cant touch, if they time your spells.
As I said before, if you mirror this build with domination, the first salvo would cause the reults of :
40 energy drained : 24 energy drained
240 damage. : no damage
I'm not even counting lord because it will be removed with CoP or whatever in <2 seconds.
And once spells recharge, the mindwrack-spam begins. You'd run out of energy, sure, but after the first round you don't need that much and its BETTER to burn slightly slower (wrack burn wrack surge etc...) for more spell damage.
In any case, after your first salvo you can only use Tap and Drain once in 30s while stuff is recharging. That won't make a monk blink... Drop some insp, get some dom, and sub in SoWeariness...
As I said before, if you mirror this build with domination, the first salvo would cause the reults of :
40 energy drained : 24 energy drained
240 damage. : no damage
I'm not even counting lord because it will be removed with CoP or whatever in <2 seconds.
And once spells recharge, the mindwrack-spam begins. You'd run out of energy, sure, but after the first round you don't need that much and its BETTER to burn slightly slower (wrack burn wrack surge etc...) for more spell damage.
In any case, after your first salvo you can only use Tap and Drain once in 30s while stuff is recharging. That won't make a monk blink... Drop some insp, get some dom, and sub in SoWeariness...
holden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake
the problem is that your idiotic critisicm doesnt make sense, thats what. you are blindly misleading readers to thinking this is a horrible build. just screw off if you are gonna be a ***** about any of my builds. I know they perform well and thanks to them that I have my 125,000 faction, and half of that was in the summer, when you got like 5 faction for killing things, and i havent had my own computer in 3 months.
and i havent had my own computer in 3 months
and i havent had my own computer in 3 months
Wretchman Drake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
You say you can shut down any monk with your insp energy drain build. That's fine, but I can do the same with my dom build, and kill them with it at the same time. If the monk swaps to -5e wep and a shield, they have essentially 17-22 energy that you cant touch, if they time your spells.
As I said before, if you mirror this build with domination, the first salvo would cause the reults of :
40 energy drained : 24 energy drained
240 damage. : no damage
I'm not even counting lord because it will be removed with CoP or whatever in <2 seconds.
And once spells recharge, the mindwrack-spam begins. You'd run out of energy, sure, but after the first round you don't need that much and its BETTER to burn slightly slower (wrack burn wrack surge etc...) for more spell damage.
In any case, after your first salvo you can only use Tap and Drain once in 30s while stuff is recharging. That won't make a monk blink... Drop some insp, get some dom, and sub in SoWeariness... i can see where you are going with this. however, my buddy plays a build like urs, dom and insp, and i think he just in the end does a little bit more dmg and i suck out a little more energy
As I said before, if you mirror this build with domination, the first salvo would cause the reults of :
40 energy drained : 24 energy drained
240 damage. : no damage
I'm not even counting lord because it will be removed with CoP or whatever in <2 seconds.
And once spells recharge, the mindwrack-spam begins. You'd run out of energy, sure, but after the first round you don't need that much and its BETTER to burn slightly slower (wrack burn wrack surge etc...) for more spell damage.
In any case, after your first salvo you can only use Tap and Drain once in 30s while stuff is recharging. That won't make a monk blink... Drop some insp, get some dom, and sub in SoWeariness... i can see where you are going with this. however, my buddy plays a build like urs, dom and insp, and i think he just in the end does a little bit more dmg and i suck out a little more energy
Avarre
It all evens out after they burn their last bit of energy to try and heal themselves 
Vaga
Hes using all these spells to deny about the same amount as would have been done using domination, althought the domination spells have a much faster recharge & deal damage. Apart from this, with many other energy denial builds you have room for some other skills like consume corpse, windbourne speed....
The fact is this is just a mediocre energy denial build and not "one of the best Energy Denial builds ever"
You can see he has barely thought it out by saying he has 16 fast casting and 16 inspiration...you cant have both. Best you can have is 15 of one 16 of the other, which means you have -150hp from sup runes compared to domination energy denial builds that use no superior runes other than vigor.
The fact is this is just a mediocre energy denial build and not "one of the best Energy Denial builds ever"
You can see he has barely thought it out by saying he has 16 fast casting and 16 inspiration...you cant have both. Best you can have is 15 of one 16 of the other, which means you have -150hp from sup runes compared to domination energy denial builds that use no superior runes other than vigor.
Wretchman Drake
well then forgive my c0ckiness. yea it needs work, but its a start for me. ill make it uber, ull see.
Neo-LD
Good monks swap to empty hands (or better yet, negative energy focus) and wait out the combo, then switch back, OoB, and come out the other end with ~25 energy. Keep in mind, all of your draining spells arent even half way recharged yet and you are at ~0 energy because you just used ether lord. Who got energy drained, anyways?
Well, thats what would happen if you tried that combo on me or any other veteran monk, but against an average kid your build should do fine...outside of the fact that it deals 0 damage.
Well, thats what would happen if you tried that combo on me or any other veteran monk, but against an average kid your build should do fine...outside of the fact that it deals 0 damage.
Tarot Ribos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake
...in random arenas
And that explains all. Any half-brained build does well in random arenas.
Yeah, and then there's the whole thing about this not actually keeping someone shut down... Energy Trap, Drain, and Ether Lord all have obscenely long recharge times. And Spirit Shackles only works if they attack. Last I checked, most monks don't need to attack.
Adrenaline warrior runs up to you. You Spirit Shackle him, and he's now down to zero energy. That still doesn't stop him from going Penetrating Chop-> Cleave -> Dismember -> Axe Twist -> Penetrating -> Cleave again on you. And that's not even the best axe build possible.
Point is, you can drain a whole bunch of energy off, make people mad and target you, and then you're screwed. You have no damage sources in this build.
Yeah, and then there's the whole thing about this not actually keeping someone shut down... Energy Trap, Drain, and Ether Lord all have obscenely long recharge times. And Spirit Shackles only works if they attack. Last I checked, most monks don't need to attack.
Adrenaline warrior runs up to you. You Spirit Shackle him, and he's now down to zero energy. That still doesn't stop him from going Penetrating Chop-> Cleave -> Dismember -> Axe Twist -> Penetrating -> Cleave again on you. And that's not even the best axe build possible.
Point is, you can drain a whole bunch of energy off, make people mad and target you, and then you're screwed. You have no damage sources in this build.
Two April Mornings
i tend to pack along guilt/shame - those are good while u r taking away the nrg.
Ether Lord FTW though, my fav. skill
Ether Lord FTW though, my fav. skill
agentblade
I'm still curious how u can keep multiple targets drained of energy the whole day as u so mentioned.. and someone is wise just because he supports your point? That's very narrow minded don't you think?
How can u say the recharge doesn't happen when the fact is it does? every skill has a recharge.. and 30 secs even with the 20% chance of recharge being halved is long.
Ether lord without a cover hex wun work.. it's a hex and most monks will just remove it..
I think the biggest flaw in ur build is that you based it on lousy monks. Lousy monks doesn't need to be shut down cos they will die easily even without a shutdown.. The point of shutting down a monk is because he is good at healing his team mates and u need to stop him from doing what he does.
Making builds to counter lousy monk builds is very bad.. you're not exploring ur fullest potiential. When u make a build make it such that you can counter good players/builds. Only then can do say u're good..
I have a feeling ur build is pre mesmer nerf, it was then that e-drain and e-tap were the uber e-denial skills, thus the nerf.. but I'm not a wise person so I never will know will i?
ps: I'm not flaming u, just that ur statements have just been ridiculous most of the time..
How can u say the recharge doesn't happen when the fact is it does? every skill has a recharge.. and 30 secs even with the 20% chance of recharge being halved is long.
Ether lord without a cover hex wun work.. it's a hex and most monks will just remove it..
I think the biggest flaw in ur build is that you based it on lousy monks. Lousy monks doesn't need to be shut down cos they will die easily even without a shutdown.. The point of shutting down a monk is because he is good at healing his team mates and u need to stop him from doing what he does.
Making builds to counter lousy monk builds is very bad.. you're not exploring ur fullest potiential. When u make a build make it such that you can counter good players/builds. Only then can do say u're good..
I have a feeling ur build is pre mesmer nerf, it was then that e-drain and e-tap were the uber e-denial skills, thus the nerf.. but I'm not a wise person so I never will know will i?
ps: I'm not flaming u, just that ur statements have just been ridiculous most of the time..
agentblade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake
well then forgive my c0ckiness. yea it needs work, but its a start for me. ill make it uber, ull see.
regarding a "uber" build.. i have bad news for u.. There is NO such thing as an uber build.. If u do find a uber build it's best to keep it to urself cos Anet will nerf it down the moment some build is uber.. think e-drain, smiting, etc..
The point of GW if u haven't already known is not in the builds alone but rather in the skill of the players and more importantly the teamwork of the team.. u can be a super uber player but if ur team members suck to the core u have no hope of winning.. think War Machines, they used normal builds but how can they win? it's in the way they communicate with each other, the way they support and move.. it's more than the build that makes a player uber..
The point of GW if u haven't already known is not in the builds alone but rather in the skill of the players and more importantly the teamwork of the team.. u can be a super uber player but if ur team members suck to the core u have no hope of winning.. think War Machines, they used normal builds but how can they win? it's in the way they communicate with each other, the way they support and move.. it's more than the build that makes a player uber..
Wretchman Drake
in uber, meaning good, not "OH THIS BUILD PWNS13H123 U S-0 HARD N STUFF LIKE IT BEST BUILD ARGHHHHHHH"....
...i just meant it can do some good. we'll see.
...i just meant it can do some good. we'll see.
agentblade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake
in uber, meaning good, not "OH THIS BUILD PWNS13H123 U S-0 HARD N STUFF LIKE IT BEST BUILD ARGHHHHHHH"....
...i just meant it can do some good. we'll see. oh..so it can do some good only? hmm..not so good as u made it sound earlier on suddenly..
Try this build..
FC 9
dom 16
Insp 11 (or so..)
1. mind wrack
2. energy surge
3. energy burn
4. shame
5. signet of weariness
6. signet of humility
7. mantra of inscription
8. rez
U can kill and suck his energy at the same time.. kinda like killing two birds with one stone..
But just so that I'm not being biased or what I'm going to try out ur build to see for myself how it performs when i have the time.
...i just meant it can do some good. we'll see. oh..so it can do some good only? hmm..not so good as u made it sound earlier on suddenly..
Try this build..
FC 9
dom 16
Insp 11 (or so..)
1. mind wrack
2. energy surge
3. energy burn
4. shame
5. signet of weariness
6. signet of humility
7. mantra of inscription
8. rez
U can kill and suck his energy at the same time.. kinda like killing two birds with one stone..
But just so that I'm not being biased or what I'm going to try out ur build to see for myself how it performs when i have the time.
Lady Lozza
EDIT: I should probably read the full page before posting 
My bad 
I'm sure I've posted it in another thread somewhere but the point of using e-drain in most builds is e-lord.
Now I know a lot mesmers don't like it, but I have found e-lord quite useful in certain situations.
My bad I'm sure I've posted it in another thread somewhere but the point of using e-drain in most builds is e-lord.
Now I know a lot mesmers don't like it, but I have found e-lord quite useful in certain situations.
Avarre
For domination builds, elord is counterproductive as you want them to regen a little energy so that your burns hit harder.
My build (posted on forum before)
11 + 1 + 3 dom
11 + 1 insp
10 + 1 fast cast
Energy Burn
Energy Surge {e}
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Leech signet
Mantra of Inscriptions
Mind Wrack
Res sig.
14 Dom gives -10 burns, 12 insp gives permanent elite lockdown and decent recharge on signets. Works for me
My build (posted on forum before)
11 + 1 + 3 dom
11 + 1 insp
10 + 1 fast cast
Energy Burn
Energy Surge {e}
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Leech signet
Mantra of Inscriptions
Mind Wrack
Res sig.
14 Dom gives -10 burns, 12 insp gives permanent elite lockdown and decent recharge on signets. Works for me
agentblade
For energy denial there are a variety of ways to do it from what i've seen..
One is the surge-burn route where u burn off their energy, doing dmg as u go along..
Two is the Panic-malise-ether lord build where u dun drain their energy but u prevent them from regaining it..
Three is the signet route which is similar to the surge-burn build but uses signets instead..
I guess all three are equally useful and really depends on how u use it. Why pple dun like panic-malise-ether lord is because they are hexes and good monks know how to easily remove hexes. that can be countered with having a hex team build where the monk is stacked with so many hexes it's impossible to remove. Another counter to this build is weapon swapping, which some pple say u put mind wrack in to make the monk think twice about dropping their energy to zero..
I guess it all works, just a matter of how u use ur spells and how u fit in ur team..
I'm trying to come up with new ways of denying energy.. kinda bored with surging all the time
One is the surge-burn route where u burn off their energy, doing dmg as u go along..
Two is the Panic-malise-ether lord build where u dun drain their energy but u prevent them from regaining it..
Three is the signet route which is similar to the surge-burn build but uses signets instead..
I guess all three are equally useful and really depends on how u use it. Why pple dun like panic-malise-ether lord is because they are hexes and good monks know how to easily remove hexes. that can be countered with having a hex team build where the monk is stacked with so many hexes it's impossible to remove. Another counter to this build is weapon swapping, which some pple say u put mind wrack in to make the monk think twice about dropping their energy to zero..
I guess it all works, just a matter of how u use ur spells and how u fit in ur team..
I'm trying to come up with new ways of denying energy.. kinda bored with surging all the time
sno
I find shutdown to be much more effective against monks.. Using drain enchant>backfire>parasitic bond (or arcane conundrum, but thats a ~1s cast)>shame and then interupting whatever hex removal he has will effectively shut down almost any monk for quite awhile. He'll be all reved up and ready to heal when your backfire comes back, and you can start the cycle all over again. Since this combo only requires 4 skills, I usually run it with a bunch of interupts (P.Block ftw.) I usually use pblock more on the eles or necros though, since it's nearly impossible to pblock boon prots, and they won't be useless without 1 attribute, although most ele's or necros will stick mostly to one attribute. I also played around with glyph of renewal as the elite, which worked out nice, but I prefer P.Block.