Why doesn't A.Net help victims of hack-attacks? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:02 - 1

First, I'd like to say that was a loyal customer of A.Net. I've played for 1,382 hours 25 minutes over the past 8 months. Purchased Direct Song and was planning on buying Factions and just about anything Guild Wars related. Well, this is the story.

Quote:

Someone logged onto my account, changed me from American districts to European district, and changed my password.

The took atleast 97k,3 of my Ragged Scar Patterns of Superior Blood Magic, Wicked Scar Patterns of Superior Curse, Vile Scar Patters of Superior Death Magic, Lieutenant's Helmet of Superior Hammer Mastery, Lieutenant's Helmet of Superior Swordsmanship, Lieutenant's Helmet of Superior Axe Mastery, a Rune of Superior Absorption, Ascalon Cuirass of Superior Vigor (15k Marhaan's Grotto version), Dwarven Helmet of Superior Hammer Mastery, Duelist's Helmet of Superior Swordsmanship, Executioner's Helmet of Superior Axe Mastery, my Sundering Great Axe of Fortitude (10:10 Sundering, +27 Health, +14% damage while health is above 50%), Gladiator's Leggings (15k Marhaan's Grotto version) of Superior Vigor, and Gladiator's Gauntlets (15k Marhaan's Grotto version) of Superior Absorption.

That is all that I can notice right away that they've taken. I do have a rune of superior hammer mastery that they left behind in my inventory. I hope it will not be hard to find out who has done this, as you keep records of every interaction in the game. Please return my stuff back to normal.

This is the reply I got.

Quote:

Hello Josh,

Thanks for contacting Guild Wars Support. I am sorry to learn that you are having account problems. Please be aware that we are unable to recover any lost items or characters that might have been on your account.

I'm not making this topic to whine about just my incident, but I'm curious why they do not return the items and I hope for some sort of resolution. Do they not keep logs of every transaction in-game?

Obviously, the stolen items were transfered to another account. Is it not that hard to look through the logs and see what account the items were transfered to?

I'm sorry if this type of thing has been posted before, but I see just as many people getting flamed for bringing up an ancient thread as those not searching.

Mavrik

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

Alaska

05 Feb 2006 at 19:03 - 2

you have proof of the items?

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:04 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavrik

you have proof of the items?

They have logs. They do not need to see proof. But yes, I do have screenshots of the items on my character.

calamitykell

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

N.Y.C.

05 Feb 2006 at 19:05 - 4

You have proof that it was someone you don't know who hacked your account?

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:10 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

You have proof that it was someone you don't know who hacked your account?

They can check the chat-logs. I do not live in Europe and they can check to see if I was conversating with anyone and begging them to jack all my gold and expert salvage all my armor.

calamitykell

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

N.Y.C.

05 Feb 2006 at 19:13 - 6

I'm certainly not trying to come across as you are trying to pull one over on ANet, or get away with anything.

But... they can't be certain. You say it was hacked, but you can't prove it. (Knowledge != proof, I'm sorry to say.) Again, not trying to say that because you can't prove it, it didn't happen, but if ANet's stance was to reward everyone their items back, we'd see false claims of 'hacked' accounts everywhere.

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:16 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

I'm certainly not trying to come across as you are trying to pull one over on ANet, or get away with anything.

But... they can't be certain. You say it was hacked, but you can't prove it. (Knowledge != proof, I'm sorry to say.) Again, not trying to say that because you can't prove it, it didn't happen, but if ANet's stance was to reward everyone their items back, we'd see false claims of 'hacked' accounts everywhere.

I'm not sure where you're going at with this, but the logs can prove just about anything.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:23 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

They can check the chat-logs. I do not live in Europe and they can check to see if I was conversating with anyone and begging them to jack all my gold and expert salvage all my armor.

they cant check your telephone chat, or that the person on the european server doesnt live next door to you in anywhere usa using the eu server.

also if the things that were taken were sold to a 3rd person who bought it in good faith are they going to take it back from them?

have you checked for keyloggers and spyware ,etc?

they can recover a stolen ACCOUNT but not the contents

Mandy Memory

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Xen of Sigils [XoO]

W/

05 Feb 2006 at 19:25 - 9

Well look at it this way.
"Hi Anet,
I just sold my Super Absorb but I regret it. Therefore I am saying I got hacked and it got stolen. You clearly have a log that at one point I did have one. I want it back. Now. Faster. Thank you."

Or the same variation but you transfered it to a different account? There isnt a way to tell that you didnt give the item to a friend and once they recover it you will get it back.

Its the same with every game, it is not their fault you got hacked and there is no way to prove you really were hacked.

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:28 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

they cant check your telephone chat, or that the person on the european server doesnt live next door to you in anywhere usa using the eu server.

For everyone who comes up with such an elaborit scheam, hundreds, even thousand and hundreds of thousands of inoccent victims of hacks lose their items for no reason.

You going to base your entire policy on what an extremely, very few will do while letting almost every victim of hacked accounts fall victim?

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:30 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

Well look at it this way.
"Hi Anet,
I just sold my Super Absorb but I regret it. Therefore I am saying I got hacked and it got stolen. You clearly have a log that at one point I did have one. I want it back. Now. Faster. Thank you."

Or the same variation but you transfered it to a different account? There isnt a way to tell that you didnt give the item to a friend and once they recover it you will get it back.

Chat-logs. Chat-logs. Chat-logs. They can have the items taken from the hackers account and put back on my account. Sure I'd lose the 15k+Materials spent on buying the armor, but just getting the runes back would be better than nothing.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:38 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

For everyone who comes up with such an elaborit scheam, hundreds, even thousand and hundreds of thousands of inoccent victims of hacks lose their items for no reason.

?

have you even done a check for a keylogger you might have downloaded?

most of those innocent victems dont even pay attention to basic security which is not Anets fault or respossibility.

EDIT

if thousands were being affected let alone hundreds of thousands there would be nothing on these boards except hack complaints.

the lack shows how few there actually are

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:41 - 13

Guide to false claiming of hack:
================
1. Tell a friend your account and password.
2. Have the friend log in later to take all the items away and change the password.
3. Mail Anet of the reported item lost and claim you were hacked.
4. Have your friend transfer your items back, after Anet have given back your items.
5. Enjoy your stack of 2 set of items, and sell the extra rune of absorbtion to recieve your $$$
================

Sorry to say, but this kind of thing Anet can not detect and can not prove. Investigating it further is only causing more harm than good to the welfare of the studio.

If anything though, you might have been a victim of key logger. However, no one can prove it unless we can wire your brain into a machine that is capable of showing us what you think.

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:41 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

have you even done a check for a keylogger you might have downloaded?

most of those innocent victems dont even pay attention to basic security which is not Anets fault or respossibility.

Yes, I have.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:44 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Yes, I have.

which one and did you also use microsofts one as well?

cutious as you might have found a good one i have missed

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:46 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Guide to false claiming of hack:
================
1. Tell a friend your account and password.
2. Have the friend log in later to take all the items away and change the password.
3. Mail Anet of the reported item lost and claim you were hacked.
4. Have your friend transfer your items back, after Anet have given back your items.
5. Enjoy your stack of 2 set of items, and sell the extra rune of absorbtion to recieve your $$$
================

First off, he was in the European districts and I was in the American districts. They can check how recently he has switched districts and can probably conclude whether or not he really lives in Europe or not.

Second, they don't have to give me a new set of items. They can return the runes and gold that is on the account that the items were transfered to.

No new items. No gold made. In fact, I'd still be suffering a lost from the hack attack (the 15k + materials used to craft the armor), but atleast it would be more than "Oh, we're sorry, but we can't do anything because it's our company's policy that every case be handled the exact same way. Now roll over and play dead, please."

General Wise Guy

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Gresham, Oregon

Burning Sun Ninjas

W/Mo

05 Feb 2006 at 19:50 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

They have logs. They do not need to see proof. But yes, I do have screenshots of the items on my character.

how did you get back on your name? They just messaged you here you go? You can have it back? cmon man.

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:56 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Wise Guy

how did you get back on your name?

You can recover a lost password. Open Guild Wars. Click "Forgot your password?". Type your e-mail adress. Viola`! A new password will be sent to your e-mail.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 19:56 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Second, they don't have to give me a new set of items. They can return the runes and gold that is on the account that the items were transfered to.

No new items. No gold made. "

not to throw gas on the fire but if i looted an account i would get rid of the items fast at bargain prices (anything gotten for free is never sold at a loss) and then you have maybe half a dozen people who bought the items wondering where the item they paid good money for went to and they call Anet about missing items.

just a thought

team speak/vent/is not logged

Joe Martin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Maryland, USA

Xen of Onslaught [XoO]

Mo/

05 Feb 2006 at 20:00 - 20

It is like this for every game out there. They have no way of verifying the items that you had/did not have, and even if they did, pouring through thousands of logs to find your 97k is not a priority for them.

Yes, they can get your account back, but the items are toast.

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 20:01 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

not to throw gas on the fire but if i looted an account i would get rid of the items fast at bargain prices (anything gotten for free is never sold at a loss) and then you have maybe half a dozen people who bought the items wondering where the item they paid good money for went to and they call Anet about missing items.

That is true. They could give me the gold made from these transactions, though. (They keep logs of EVERYTHING). Like I said, anything is better than the whole playing dead thing.

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 20:07 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Martin

They have no way of verifying the items that you had/did not have, and even if they did, pouring through thousands of logs to find your 97k is not a priority for them.

Yes, they do keep logs of the items. They have an entire team devoted to reporting hacks. What are they even here for if they do nothing but give the same answer to everyone and do absolutely nothing for the victims?

That's not "customer-support", atleast not a very good one.

bobrath

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Texas

Scouts of Tyria

05 Feb 2006 at 20:13 - 23

I'm sorry your password was easily guessable.
I'm sorry that someone was able to logon to your supposedly secure account.
I'm sorry you lost items.

I'm not sorry that ANet would rather prioritze fixing possible hacks, bugs, and other community wide errors.

Secure your password.
Take the loss of your loot as a lesson.
Do what you did to get it, and enjoy having to work a bit harder then you used to.
Get some wood, nails, and a hammer. Find a river. Build a Bridge and get over it.

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 20:15 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

I'm not sorry that ANet would rather prioritze fixing possible hacks, bugs, and other community wide errors.

You aren't listening. THEY HAVE AN ENTIRE TEAM DEVOTED TO THIS. Fixing hacks, bugs, and community wide errors is a differant team.

bobrath

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Texas

Scouts of Tyria

05 Feb 2006 at 20:23 - 25

How is it that you "know" they have these extensive logs and this "team devoted"?

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 20:26 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

How is it that you "know" they have these extensive logs and this "team devoted"?

they do log everything but the staff to go through them according to Gaile has its limits.

logging is officially confirmed

bobrath

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Texas

Scouts of Tyria

05 Feb 2006 at 20:28 - 27

Thanks Loviatar.

Dauntless

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

05 Feb 2006 at 20:28 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

You aren't listening. THEY HAVE AN ENTIRE TEAM DEVOTED TO THIS. Fixing hacks, bugs, and community wide errors is a differant team.

And you know this how?
I'm sure they have someone or maybe a couple people who work on this but I doubt they have an entire "team".

Sorry to say man but if you can't prove it you have nothing. If you do have the proof just send them another email with the screenies attached, simple as that.

Josh

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

England, UK

D/Mo

05 Feb 2006 at 20:29 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

How is it that you "know" they have these extensive logs and this "team devoted"?

Well if they didn't then ANet would be a pretty damn sh*t company, period.

Why ask such a stupid question.

Ghost Recon

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

05 Feb 2006 at 20:29 - 30

They do have chat logs for sure and probs trading logs as well.

Poison Ivy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Toronto

Hopping

Mo/A

05 Feb 2006 at 20:30 - 31

BigTur, chill man ( I know thats impossible, but try after you hear what I have to say )

Your point of view : Someone broke into my account, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO THAT -----cencored-----

A-net's point of view : Another person who didn't bother to set up anti-spyware while playing GW.

Or : Huh, trying to make cheap quick cash without eBAY? DREAM ON.

My point is, try to deal with it man, it's part of life, you deserve everything. The things you earn and the things you recive (including the hacking the bastard gave you).

But think about the spoils : You've learned the importance of Anti-spyware stuff. And hopefully your planning to set it up if you havn't got it.

As for the A-net lazy bums, take advice in a lesson I've learned in life : Don't rely on anyone, if you want something done correctly and the exact way you want it, do it yourself.

Linsys

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Afk Mac N Cheeze Dun [LOOL]

Mo/N

05 Feb 2006 at 20:31 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

You aren't listening. THEY HAVE AN ENTIRE TEAM DEVOTED TO THIS. Fixing hacks, bugs, and community wide errors is a differant team.

Their system being hacked and exploited is an entirely different situation then your inability to keep your computer safe and your computer safe from hackers..

I agree there is no way to prove that your account was stolen, you haven't provoved anything as far as I'm concerned...

As far as Proving someone is in Euope is again not something that can easily be confrmed..

A friend of yours could have easily logged into your account given these items to a 3rd Party and then give you your account back.

I think its your responsibility to keep your account safe from hackers. Period.. Anet must not feel like THEIR system was exploited... they must belive that your system was which is why your account was stolen, again not their problem.

darkMishkin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

Mo/

05 Feb 2006 at 20:33 - 33

I would imagine they changed your Server form US to Euro for a laugh, the same reason they might delete people's characters, which doesn't make them any money. Or getting you banned by logging in as you and saying very naughty things.

At least there is no way to delete someone's PvP unlocks.

Blessed Winds

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

I live in Panda Land. It's wonderful.

PLU (Panda Lovers UNITED)

Me/Mo

05 Feb 2006 at 20:34 - 34

http://support.plaync.com/cgi-bin/pl...e w=1#hacking

Quote:

If my account has been broken into, what recourse do I have?

Regrettably, there isn't much you can do if you've been hacked. This is why it is so important to protect yourself and your computer.

The Guild Wars servers have not been breached in any way. Accounts are safe, and there are no "dupes" or other suspect items within the game. The only purpose of these third-party programs is to acquire access keys or account passwords in order to steal accounts. No matter the persuasive "proof" these would-be thieves offer that there is a functioning cheat or hack, or that a particular tool or utility is harmless, you should never jeopardize your account with such a download.

Our best recommendation is to never download any program for our game that is not offered by ArenaNet or NCsoft. And naturally, never give your password or reveal your account access key to anyone!

Someone either tricked you to get your password/e-mail, or you're tricking us. -.-
They don't need to help you get your items back. They're not the virtual police -.-
Just earn your stuff back again. k?

Poison Ivy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Toronto

Hopping

Mo/A

05 Feb 2006 at 20:39 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Obviously, the stolen items were transfered to another account. Is it not that hard to look through the logs and see what account the items were transfered to?

Btw, send them that.

treserious

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Montreal Canada

Pirate Scum

W/Mo

05 Feb 2006 at 20:40 - 36

bleh.
if you got hacked, sadly I would have to say you are at fault.

if you had taken proper security measures this would not have happened.

IMO the only people that actually get thier account hacked are those going to websites advertising products and features that are aginst the GW TOS. someone on some site you went to possibly looking for GW cheats, hacks, exploits and bugs had a keylogger setup to install via activeX or java which stole your account information.
there are types of spyware out there that are designed to look for installed online games, and if found will steal your account information.

be glad you got your account back. A buddy of mine installed a UI mod for WoW and lost his account. Blizzard offered to give him a new account with 1 month free subscription.

not Arenanets problem, and definately no ours.

go farm, within a week you will have the same loot or better.

if anet had a server explode where the database of invetories is stored, then yeah, i would expect them to re-stock your inventory if the logs are recoverable.

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 20:47 - 37

I think some of my comments may have taken this thread in the wrong direction, sorry.

I don't want this thread to become about my case specificaly, but about their policy and customer support regarding hacked accounts, or lack there of.

I recognize that they are working on a limited budget because there is no monthly fee and the first expansion pack has not yet been released.

However, I would like to atleast see an effort by what team they do have, even if it takes weeks or months to get anything accomplished. That is the point of the thread. I'd hoped more people would agree with me and recognize that many people are losing hundreds of hours of their life just because of hackers and the lack of customer support/investigation into the incidents.

And I am fairly confident of my security. I do not, nor have I ever used third party programs for Guild Wars and the only Guild Wars related websites I have really gone to is the official website, Guild Wars Guru, Guild-Hall, and Team-iQ.

Tijger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/E

05 Feb 2006 at 20:48 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

I'm not sure where you're going at with this, but the logs can prove just about anything.

Except your honesty.

The logs can show how connected when, not how the login information was obtained and by whom.
We're all responsible for our own computers, not Anet, as honest as the TS may be I dont see this as a problem of Anet.

I will bet you anything that as soon as Anet would start compensating people for hacks that the number of hacks will go up immensely all of a sudden.
On top of that, Anet is not responsible for the security of your PC, you are, its (perhaps unfortunately) really that simple.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

05 Feb 2006 at 21:03 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

I

And I am fairly confident of my security. I do not, nor have I ever used third party programs for Guild Wars and the only Guild Wars related websites I have really gone to is the official website, Guild Wars Guru, Guild-Hall, and Team-iQ.

there was an interesting article about a new generation of malware that doesnt have to be actively clicked on to self download and activate in the background.

there are basically only two things here that count.

Anet has made a flat statement that their servers security has not been breeched and the accounts are secure at their end with a proven security team to back it up

1 either they are telling the truth and it actually is secure which means something happened at your end

2 they are lying and accounts are being hacked all over....which doesnt seem to be happening as there are very few *i was hacked* threads here or on other sites as well.

i use a hardware firewall a software firewall (not the xp one) and scan for junk daily and update the AV daily as well.

i also have a PITA 16 alpha/num/sign password

i know i am paranoid but am i paranoid enough?

Pevil Lihatuh

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Yorkshire, UK

R/Me

05 Feb 2006 at 21:14 - 40

I'm sure I heard somewhere that also Anet only has one backup each day or something. So if you report it 'too late', then you'd get nothing back anyway as it would be a save after your items had gone. Could be wrong though. But as far as I'm aware, no game will give you your items back. It's too much time for them to spawn an item and give it to you unfortunately.