Do you think all enemies should give XP?

personally, i think it is real dumb that some enemies give zero xp, real dumb! to boot, im almost at lvl 10 and i almost get killed sometimes, against a mob of 4 or 5, and walk out earning a whooping 8 xp. i think each and all enemies should give you at least 10 xp, what do you guys think?

I don't really think so...

I mean, it is annoying. but then (if you were a high level), all you would have to do to gain more levels is go out and slaughter a bunch of easy monsters...

and thats why you don't gain xp from beasties that are a certain level lower than you. yeah it ticks me off sometimes when you are forced to fight these beasties and then get nothing for it but I understand why its this way, and it makes perfect sence.

I don't think there is any level based gaming system that where if you beat on someone so many levels beneath you that you will gain any XP. Just because it is too easy.

I think it is partly due to drive the player forward. No reward? Move to where you can get a reward. Yet, I know that still doesn't work for everyone's playing style.
1exp is at least something, even if you are lvl 20 and kill something lvl4.

I think that every monster not giving xp is there to make you do quests so that you give xp... if you could just go out and kill endless mobs it would take away a lot from the game.

I'd prefer a .hack kind of exp distribution. I'd like the minimum to be 1. So you could waste your time by hunting 10,000 easy monsters but itd take a couple days. 0 exp I guess is fair especially when they can woop my ass if there's 3.

I agree, would be nice if it atleast gave you 1exp instead of nothing.

If you can't get xp from them, then they shouldn't be aggroing you.

Seconded! Wouldn't mean you couldn't kill them if you wanted... just that they should be able to take one look at your uberness and opt not to volunteer to be slaughtered.

Yeah, the game is too hard. Please make it easier as point and click is complicated. *reaches up and flips the "sarcasm" switch off*

Didn't read any of this. Lowest XP you should get is 1xp.

If 0 xp mobs didnt agro then you could easily lvl at 10+ on low lvl quests, just running from npc to quest location without even a fight.

The no-exp doesn't bother me, as I find there's plenty of experience to be had just by doing missions and side quests. Almost too much, really.

But I have to say that 'running past' monsters almost never works for me - if they spot you, that is. Many times you can sneak by them, of course. But later in the game they can usually easily chase/kill you while you're still trying running away. And if you have any henchies w/you that you need alive, forget it.

It doesnt bother me that lets say lvl 1 monsters near ascalon give no xp when ur level 15+ or so...

but what DOES bother me is that a lot of monsters in the area where you currently are give no XP either, i cant even remember how many missions i had where i would jsut get 0 xp from those darn scorpions... and that mission was made for my level class, so at least give us some xp for those annoying creatures...

If i were doing the Great Northern Wall with my lvl 20 ... ok... then 0 xp is logical, but if im doing missions past LA i should at least get some xp from those creatures...

Some XP from low level monsters would not be bad. Just make it so that it isn't too much.

- They still attack you and cost time.
- Sometimes they come in massive hordes. For a level 10 character 1 level 3 monster is no challenge, but 20 level 3 monsters can still be a challenge.
- They can screw up your quests.

I did the quest recently where you have to escort some character. Took me 30 minutes to find him and 30 more minutes to walk him back to the place we had to be (frontier gate). Suddenly, with the green star on the radar, a massive army of level 3 and level 4 devourers all swarm the NPC and kill him. Great. A full hour lost thanks to monsters which don't give any XP at all. I directly logged off and didn't play again all day. If they were XP giving monsters then I would understand, that's part of the challenge. But hordes of attacking 0-XP monsters which screw your quest are just annoying. GW is a mayor improvement compared to EQ1 (which I played before GW). But at least in EQ1 monsters didn't attack any more once they stopped giving XP (unless you decided to sit down right in front of them)

A small XP reward would be good. Afterall. If you need 10.000 XP to advance a level, you're not going to get it soon from slaughtering 5 XP monsters.

Quite true, the default for lower monsters should be 1 to 5xp. Its pretty ridiculous that you do not get it, I almost get slaughtered all the time at yaks bend fighting those stone summit guys and I am level 17. No xp from them at all.

I think the issue is not that low level monsters should still give xp, but rather that the monster "levels" are highly imbalanced when compared to their lethality vs players of equal level, especially in numbers. I mean really, a level 4 monster that can singlehandedly drop the health of a level 10 character in half, and that nearly always spawns in packs...that should NOT be classed as a "level 4" mob. Leaving the 0 xp for monsters drastically under your level would not be a problem, if the correlation between monster "level" and monster "lethality" were more appropriate.

(And yes, I know that their "lethality" is in part influenced by their level, with damage calculations and the like, what I am proposing is altering the "base" stats that are modified per level, along with changing the levels...not just populating old ascalon with a swarm of level 10 devourers...)

That would make the game overall a lot easier.

Another option would be

1) To stop low level monsters attacking you (as suggested earlier)
2) Awarding XP for a swarm. Now, this can be tricky. But if you overcome the challenge of killing 10 low level monsters in once fight, that is surely a lot harder than killing 10 low level monsters seperately. So perhaps they could make it so that if a monster spawns in swarms, they give more XP. Say for example:
1 monster spawns, you gain 0 XP when you kill it
5 monsters spawn, you gain 2 XP for each kill
10 monsters spawn, you gain 4 XP for each kill

The numbers above are just an example. The wise guys will need to calculate them for balance.

In Neverwinter Nights (and 3th ed D&D) it roughly works that way. The challenge level is not determined by each individual monster, but by the whole group of monsters involved in that particular fight.

I think GW had learned much from other games. I will use City of Heroes in this example, because it is an NCSoft game.

Guild Wars has been designed so that when you are __ levels above a creature you will gain no xp and can still aggro it and its spawn (I think things aggro in spawns - how else would you agrro 1 monster and 3 more not in range run after you) and if enough of them gather can kill you. I think its because of the issues that come to arise in other games.

Farming for one. Here people farm for items. COH is farmed for power leveling. You get two players to run off and gather the spawns into one general area and then a few firestorms later... Sure, It wouldnt be a great way to level, doing quests would be easier. It certinly is easier just to do missions in COH. But people still do it anyway. If you use the example above where the # of spawns = XP Per kill.. it would be just as abused.


The problem with allowing 1 xp for everything also has some minor flaws. XP = Experiance which = something you learn. You can only "learn" something so much. Just as if you were in school. You get an assignment.. you only get credit for it once, even if you do it 5 times.
Sure it can be harmless - 1 XP wont amount to much at all, but it seems against basic playing principles. In most if not all general MMOG's if something is too easy for you - you learn nothing of it. Same for life really.

I agree with the aggro thing. It would be nice. They dont aggro, You gain no XP. But, People would be able to get easy XP from that. As someone said - players would be able to do old quests, running to the the objective with no risk to get a reward.

This goes to the replies after you as well...you can get exp from mobs quite far below you in level. You have to keep in mind you're splitting it with 4/6/8 other people. If you run stone summit guys with a small group, you'll all get exp.

I like the current system because it penalizes people for powerlevelling and dragging. I like to help friends through back missions, and I'm okay with getting maybe 25-500 exp a mission. I'm also okay with getting weak drops, low gold, and items I can't use because they're meant for lower levels. I don't think you should be rewarded for running something that's below you...if you run quests 5-10 levels below your own, you already get the advantage of higher attributes/hp and better armor. You shouldn't be rewarded for waiting to twink it out.

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Thats 2000 monsters, thats not very meny monsters needed to level for people like me who are use to having to kill tens of thousends the level in Lineage 2 If they did that I'd just grind to 20th outside Serinity Temple, then explore the rest of the world

This has been brought up before and apparently people don't search or just love milking topics to death.

Heres a nice little thought for your head guys, picture this:

Your level 16 in some n00b area. You decide to run along and collect about 20 monsters. You turn around, start to float, and rain fire down on them. They are dead in about 10 seconds, you gain 20 XP (1 per kill) and your bags are full since enemies tend to drop items, that you take back to the city sell for probley 20 gold and repeat.

Now how about this:

You walk out of the town, you see a couple of enemies (or a few more), you attack them with a couple of henchmen. All 3-5 drop dead quickly, you gain about 30-40 XP, about 20 gold, and 3 items that will sell for at least 15 each.

Now either someone has no life if they figure its worth spending time killing and farming little level 0's, or they are lacking skill to continue in the game and figure theres no point in trying to kill things around their own level.

The game is set up perfect right now. There should be no changes made like the ones suggested.

Why do things attack you? Um, yea well hi, I'm in the middle of a war against the Charr, they hate humans. So naturally they don't care about your level and just charge you. Example? How about in the PvP areas? You have no idea what the enemies are, just that they are there and fighting. For all you know they are level 2.

Just like the monsters, they don't care nor know what level you are. Animals have no brains, just their own land to protect, you invade, they kill.

They won't ever let you gain 0 XP. If that was possible, we would see a TON of level 19's trying to hit 20 by killing a hundred monsters in about 2 minutes. Those who sell things on EBay would make tons of money for selling characters maxed out with a ton of skills and whatnot.

Oh, and by the way, welcome to those who created Diablo and Diablo 2. I'm positive these people know what they are doing since that game is still played to this day.

What ticks me is that on the level 28 monsters I rarely get more than 18XP a kill :/

i dont really want xp from just 1 low lvl guy, but from big mobs of low lvl guys were they could actualy kill you.

Wow someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed, while we agree that there should be no xp for low level mobs, to make those statements is not constructive and is really kinda mean. I for one am a nut for doing every quest and if you do every single quest in an area(well at least the lower level areas) you will quickly find yourself wading though tons of 0xp mobs to get them done. This is done for a reason, but just because someone doesn't agree doesn't mean you need to make broad personal attacks like that

Take a group of six instead of a group of eight.

If you want higher exp rewards, you need to risk something. If not, run the Underworld quests ad infinitum.

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If the mobs dont give you exp, then they should not aggro you either. This is how it needs to be.

This is an excellent post. It definitely seems as if the game currently only takes into account the level differential between player and monster. Many monster groups do player "stronger" than their listed level, especially because of the skills they possess. The game needs a way to gage player/group vunerability(i.e. likelyhood of party death) based on the attributes, skill sets, and numbers of the attacking mob. Especially the numbers aspect. Any of us that use the henchmen know that their lack of strategic acumen often turns an even fight into a 2 or 3 to 1 disadvantage.

If I'm at Lvl 14 and my henchmen are at 10, winning a battle 6 on 15 vs a level 8 mob should not net 0XP.

So people should be rewarded for running through a zone to chain aggros, then dropping them with an aoe? This seems like a really good way to abuse a lot of smiting prayers and traps for easier exp.

Currently, if you do this and you aren't alone, you'll probably get 0 exp. What people are proposing is that you get exp if there's a group of enemies...so you could effectively let your henchies form a wall while you drop meteors on a host of Grawl or snow ettins or whatever, knowing they won't survive that one attack.

I agree with the premise the game designers came up with: if you're in a group and fighting something much lower-level than you, they should stand no chance...even if they're annoying and they hurt. Mergoyles are annoying as shit, but there's no reason you'd lose to a massive group of them...even if you had all henchmen.

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That is probably the best solution. Sure, the monsters might not care about your level - but it's bloody hell annoying if you want to get anywhere and it takes hours longer than it should just because you need to hack and slash your way through tons of critters for which you don't get any gain.

True. The point of a game however is to have fun, not to be annoyed by little, pointless pesks.

The argument can be made you're not playing the game in the right context if you find yourself frequently running against mobs whose level is far beneath you. :P

The solution to make mobs not aggro when they give no exp is sort of silly. It's so abusable beyond belief...you could explore 90% of the world with no trouble if this were the case. You could stockpile quests to do later when you could be sure nothing would attack you. I'd be willing to humor the idea if anyone offered a logical suggestion as to how to prevent abuse of such a system.

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First, no minimum experience for these, it basically says, hey, someone go do it. Zero experience says that you were supposed to move along a while ago. I've seen people level 12 in Ascalon still, I don't think I could've stood sitting around there like that. The problem that is happening is there is often too much possibility to be doing so even with a bit more experience, people aren't moving fast enough by killing efficiently, and we have a huge lack of people in certain missions.

As well, to sort of solve this problem, make the groups recieve difficulty ratings with experience per, these would be based off of the current linking, and would be similar to DaoC's excellent system of getting camp and group bonuses, granted camps aren't exactly viable here, though perhaps specific areas where they may be harder to fight. Anyway, if you brought back less than four purples many times for your group of eight, you weren't pulling enough, you could almost double your experience gain by bringing proper amounts in. This would not necessarily be the same, but would instead mean that the one monster solo who is worth 8 experience, is now worth say 10 because it is in a group of five, all of them are worth this. Include a larger creature, all of them are now at 13, an extra 2 for the power of the monster and 1 more for the increased size.

Still would be very limited on fighting lower level monsters, but could help people really try for those bigger ones when more impressive monsters mean higher experience, in larger numbers means even more, and because they are stronger and in numbers, have it calculate even more, risk for reward.

I think of it this way:

Experience = knowledge, skill, practice, understanding ect.
Just like a 5 year old trying to learn what 2 + 2 is, he need to practice to get the knowledge and this is all summed up in one word – Experience. Well, say for example this little boy masters this little math problem, meaning he’s practiced and learned it to the best that it can be learned. Do you think the next time he does this problem he’s going to be more learned? Nope. He already knows it. Just like this game, you kill a Gargoyle enough your going to know exactly how to do it every time you come across one. So by then you’ve mastered it! How can you expect experience from something you mastered? GW has done a great job implementing this into the game. They don’t know the abilities of every single player, but I feel they hit middle grounds.

It'll never happen, and here's why:

1 XP for a monster that currently gives 0 XP provides no significant benefit to a normal gamer. Not no benefit at all, true, but the benefit is so insignificant it might as well be 0.

1 XP for a monster that currently gives 0 XP is a massive benefit for bots, with their infinite patience and ability to be going while people are sleeping, working, eating, going to the movies, etc.

So, it doesn't help legit gamers hardly at all, but it helps cheaters immensely. Trust me, any feature that works that way ain't gonna see the light of day.

And I'd laugh like hell....

Keep low level monsters at 0 xp when the level difference is too great. Also make them stop mobbing or significantly reduce their chance of mobbing with exceptions, like the Charr for example, who are supposed to be this tough, belligerent race of creatures. Realism doesn't even play into this scenario as it's a fantasy game.

Monsters still drop loot whether or not you are too high to gain EXP, you may not be looking for that loot, but it is there and addings exp to monsters that you can loot and beat without breaking a sweat would be too easy.

The only exception I see is that nearly all monsters gain up in the later part of the game. Nearly any class can take on an enemy 3 lvls higher then him, mono e mono, but multiple monsters, even below your EXP range, can still contend with you, and given enough of them, will kill you. If they gave anything, EXP should accumilate depending on how many monsters your fighting at once, so that if your fighting several lower lvl monsters you will gain EXP equivalent to the monsters lvl + the number of other monsters attacking your party at the time (1 lvl), decreasing as the amount of monsters are felled. This compensates for the amount of power that a group of monsters have, most will understand that 4 lvl 5 monsters are more powerful then 1 lvl 10 monster.

NO all of you saying 0 xp is right are wrong. If my char kills 8000 crappy lvl 3 monsters in a 5 hour druge just trying to get to the next point on the map that is worth xp. 2,3,4,5,6 hours of hacking and slashing through the same mindless crap. (well, if you are a higher level and they are easy to kill you haven't learned anything no xp) Bull, If i work my mindless job doing the same repetitive crap I still get paid. If you think otherwise, come work for me. I've got just the job for you I'll collect your pay and you can work til you learn something. {learning yet? thought so} XP is XP be it 1 or 500 you gotta be earning something. If no one paid you for the game would you still try to develop it? some suggestions other than XP 1. Dev's Create a save spot for this game. Jesus it sucks running around for hours just to be killed and restart with a penalty. restarting all the way from the beginning. 2. Solo missions, hey there is an idea, missions that a solo player could survive without henchmen or other players. 3. A non-aggro spell like stealth that allows you to slip by unnoticed unless you attack. (pve only that would be so abused pvp) just a few seconds with a use delay lets say last for 5 secs with a 10 second delay til you could use it again. 4. Eleminate the ranger pet death penalty 8 seconds of mourning for the loss of a pet is rather extreme given the same bunch of monsters are also beating the crap outta you while you just sit there for 8 secs unable to do anything, even heal yourself. 5. drops are a joke, an absolute joke. a seriously unfunny joke. a humorless heart attack unfunny joke. really sad unfortunate joke {are you getting it} infant death unfunny joke resale value 1 unfunny. fight for two hours kill a boss get a flame artifact (+1 energy while you are on fire during dinner). 6. drops (need i say it again) 7. stop spamming me about the Hall of Heros or I will notify the game officials When I want to hear about the farting contest in the Hall of Heros I'll ask ok Stop spamming it. Really stop. It is annoying and useless to my char. 8. What is up with the lack of info on quest and item use? example: (Storm Artifact Energy +5) where? when? how? Do I equip it on my face during a charr invasion? shove it in my belt during cloudy weather? What is this for? Example: (frontier gate exit to pokmark plains) ok where is this frontier gate Must be in Ascalon since I got quest there Hmmmmm... nope cant find it on the map or in town must be in the hall of heros I keep being spammed about (Stop spamming me, NOW!) 9. Dye sells for 240 from the game vendor. Value is 1. Ok I think there is a law about markup value. Pretty sure you can't sell for 240% markup. 10. Well, vendors what can I say they all sell the same stuff, no really, the exact same stuff regardless if you just sold them 250 shells 33 bones and 5 storm artifacts along with assorted weapons they only sell the same 6-7 items.