a while back when 1k was good money to me I figured I'd do a little trading to scrounge up some cash, so I bought up a bunch of tanned hide @ 10 ea, which seemed like a pretty good deal as the merchant sold them for 19 or 20.
figured I could turn theem around at 13 or 14 and make a little.
so, all these people I tried to sell to would tell me tanned hides "go for 10!!", which seemed kind of odd since the trader paid something like 9.
anyway, next I thought I'd buy myself some cheap wood to make parchment.
trader was selling for 11 or 12 ea, but when I asked around I was surprised that wood also "goes for 10!!".
??
wood is almost half the price of tanned hides at he trader but they both are the same price in chat?
so, I quickly find out that pretty much everything either goes for 10 or 100, regardless of the trader prices.
at first I just kind of figured that people rounded off their prices and gravitated toward a round number, but then the realization dawned on me.......
everything goes for 10 because a large portion of gw players are retarded and wouldn't be able to multiply it out otherwise.
not only that, but it is these retarded players who set the prices on the commodities markets.
these are the business people of tomorrow.
an observation about commodity trading
eom
Ure Maker
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Originally Posted by eom
a while back when 1k was good money to me I figured I'd do a little trading to scrounge up some cash, so I bought up a bunch of tanned hide @ 10 ea, which seemed like a pretty good deal as the merchant sold them for 19 or 20.
figured I could turn theem around at 13 or 14 and make a little. so, all these people I tried to sell to would tell me tanned hides "go for 10!!", which seemed kind of odd since the trader paid something like 9. anyway, next I thought I'd buy myself some cheap wood to make parchment. trader was selling for 11 or 12 ea, but when I asked around I was surprised that wood also "goes for 10!!". ?? wood is almost half the price of tanned hides at he trader but they both are the same price in chat? so, I quickly find out that pretty much everything either goes for 10 or 100, regardless of the trader prices. at first I just kind of figured that people rounded off their prices and gravitated toward a round number, but then the realization dawned on me....... everything goes for 10 because a large portion of gw players are retarded and wouldn't be able to multiply it out otherwise. not only that, but it is these retarded players who set the prices on the commodities markets. these are the business people of tomorrow. |
the people that sell for they prices r either
1) trying to make a quick sale then move on in the game
2)a 10 year who his mum bought him the game caus he likes the shiny case
3)some people might not have the patience to run to a materialist to get the correct prices
Astalon the Grey
What I don't get is that the price of a material guy to craft steel from iron/charcoal is more costly ($200+ materials) than it is to just buy steel from a rare materials trader (~190). Wouldn't it make sense to have steel be a little cheaper to craft than to buy outright on the open market?
Jetdoc
In the main market for materials (Droknar's), the base price for the most demanded basic materials is 10g, regardless of what the material trader is selling them for.
That is because the market is generally flooded with sellers, and buyers have an expectation of price (and may just be too lazy to look to see what the merchant is selling them at).
The only thing I find offensive is when a buyer hasn't checked the material trader and their asking price is below what the trader will BUY the materials at. That's just plain ignorant.
That is because the market is generally flooded with sellers, and buyers have an expectation of price (and may just be too lazy to look to see what the merchant is selling them at).
The only thing I find offensive is when a buyer hasn't checked the material trader and their asking price is below what the trader will BUY the materials at. That's just plain ignorant.
Shantel Span
Actually I think the price of wood depends more on the selling price of parchment than it does poor math skills or anything similar. If you are buying wood nowadays you want to buy at 8 gp ea (2k for 250 wood) instead of 10. The price of parchment has dropped so much that if you go above the 8 gp it's just really not worth it to craft the parchment any more.
Diablo???
5 wood and 20g to craft 1 parchment, even at 10g per wood that comes out at about 70g per parchment. I could be mistaken, but that still seems less expensive than buying parchment from traders... it's been a while since I took a gander at the material price list...
Shantel Span
Yeah, most people sell parchment at about 70-80g nowadays. The trader buys it for 60 most of the time now because people sell that parchment to the trader en masse.
Raptox
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
The only thing I find offensive is when a buyer hasn't checked the material trader and their asking price is below what the trader will BUY the materials at. That's just plain ignorant.
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But everyone is selling them, true, which does deflate the price quite a lot.
Funda
I can only speak for myself, but I NEVER sell wood/iron/clot/tanned hide for less than 10g/per. I find that many ppl try and head to ascalon to try and buy less than the market norm (which is droks, imo). I'm the one thats actually salvaging the materials from armors, weaps, etc, I should be able to get my 10g/per for those staple materials. Simple as that.
BBoy_Manchild
i bypass the hassle of dealing with greedy people and pay the full trader price, save myself an hour of my life for a few more plat in price, a fair deal
eom
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ure Maker
erm.........
the people that sell for they prices r either 1) trying to make a quick sale then move on in the game 2)a 10 year who his mum bought him the game caus he likes the shiny case 3)some people might not have the patience to run to a materialist to get the correct prices |
ermmm...
they're trying to make a quick sale and move on --- but they're willing to hang around chat all day to sell tanned hides for that extra couple gp instead of just going to the trader.
they don't have the patience to run to a trader but they have the patience to spam chat for hours.
dude, you might not have noticed, but trying to sell wood at 10 is not somebody unloading stuff cheap --- 10 is really higher than it should be.
all materials are 10 ---- you think this is just coincidence?
if you want to defend your brethren, you'll have to come up w/something more than nonsensical excuses.
you might have nailed it on #2, though, but I'm pretty sure I learned my multiplication tables before I was 10, and they are sitting at a computer, after all.
I think that's the greatest irony.
Katari
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
The only thing I find offensive is when a buyer hasn't checked the material trader and their asking price is below what the trader will BUY the materials at. That's just plain ignorant.
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When ectos had been a stable 9k for a month or so, when thier price went up, people kept insiting on ignoring the trader and trying to buy them for less than the npc would.
eom
there's this one guy who just keeps spamming ascalon WTB'ing tanned hides at a couple below trader --- probably parasiting off the noobs.
Sister Spice
There is another reason why people buy tanned hides, dust and iron at 10g each
just as wood can be crafted into parchment at a potential profit - so too can those items
hence the fixed price.
having said that - crafting leather didnt work out that profitable for me - costs more to make than parchment and there are a lot less buyers,
I forget what dust was for but same deal .... not that profitable for the time involved (the crafter is harder to get to than the parchment crafter)
Sadly - bones dont seem to have such a use
Sister Spice
just as wood can be crafted into parchment at a potential profit - so too can those items
hence the fixed price.
having said that - crafting leather didnt work out that profitable for me - costs more to make than parchment and there are a lot less buyers,
I forget what dust was for but same deal .... not that profitable for the time involved (the crafter is harder to get to than the parchment crafter)
Sadly - bones dont seem to have such a use
Sister Spice
Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by Sister Spice
Sadly - bones dont seem to have such a use
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I'm glad I have my own little stock from the Kryta missions.
shadowfell
staples like wood and iron, 10g each, things like bones, feathers, dust, 5g each.. just seems fair to everyone that way.
lishi
i have 1000 bolth cloth to sell , i cant ...
even 6 each ...
even 6 each ...
eom
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sister Spice
There is another reason why people buy tanned hides, dust and iron at 10g each
just as wood can be crafted into parchment at a potential profit - so too can those items hence the fixed price. |
hehehehe...yeah, and it just happens to be 10.
look, chicky, if you want to make parchment to sell you shouldn't be paying more than 8 ea on wood.
and you already took care of the rest.
eom
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Originally Posted by shadowfell
staples like wood and iron, 10g each, things like bones, feathers, dust, 5g each.. just seems fair to everyone that way.
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ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....!!!!!!!!
can you explain that?
Kook~NBK~
How hard is it to do simple math? Very hard for some people. There have been countless times when I'd be selling items for 10 or 100, and when I put X amount in the window, I'd get "How much is it total?" !!!
Personally, I'd like to see EVERYONE check the material traders' buy/sell prices before buying or selling materials and adjust thier prices accordingly. Again, I've seen countless times where someone would be advertising a price for something (buy or sell) that was just out of whack - I direct them to the traders. Most times when a seller is selling too high, they'll thank me, because sitting aroud selling stuff can get boring. But God forbid you suggest that a buyer might be looking for too good of a deal!
As for that "xxx sells for Xg ea" thing, I don't care for it. Setting prices should be based on current trader's prices, supply, and demand (With rare materials, you have to figure in the cost of crafting it, as well) for that material. Example - setting the price of tanned hides for half price is just a bit too low, but selling bones or shells for 1/2 price is more reasonable, since there's no big demand for them.
Two things I don't understand about the Rare Materials prices - Why is the buy/sell price at the RMT for Fur Squares set up so much differently than most of the other items? And why does it cost so much more to craft Linen than it does to buy it, which is out of line with all the other crafted materials?
Personally, I'd like to see EVERYONE check the material traders' buy/sell prices before buying or selling materials and adjust thier prices accordingly. Again, I've seen countless times where someone would be advertising a price for something (buy or sell) that was just out of whack - I direct them to the traders. Most times when a seller is selling too high, they'll thank me, because sitting aroud selling stuff can get boring. But God forbid you suggest that a buyer might be looking for too good of a deal!
As for that "xxx sells for Xg ea" thing, I don't care for it. Setting prices should be based on current trader's prices, supply, and demand (With rare materials, you have to figure in the cost of crafting it, as well) for that material. Example - setting the price of tanned hides for half price is just a bit too low, but selling bones or shells for 1/2 price is more reasonable, since there's no big demand for them.
Two things I don't understand about the Rare Materials prices - Why is the buy/sell price at the RMT for Fur Squares set up so much differently than most of the other items? And why does it cost so much more to craft Linen than it does to buy it, which is out of line with all the other crafted materials?
lg5000
Linen used to be worth more so it used to be cheaper to craft.
As for checking the trader prices, I always get amazed at the amount of people who sell crafting materials at storage, which in droks, is half a city away from the trader with the most up-to-date prices.
*edit: I fail at English
As for checking the trader prices, I always get amazed at the amount of people who sell crafting materials at storage, which in droks, is half a city away from the trader with the most up-to-date prices.
*edit: I fail at English
Ruvaen
A lot of people don't feel that it's worth their time to sell materials at rates under 10g apiece.
eom
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ruvaen
A lot of people don't feel that it's worth their time to sell materials at rates under 10g apiece.
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right -- so they spend their time spamming chat for hours to get that extra hundred from their wood.
now, if that was really the reason people sell at 10, then people would also sell at 11, 12, or 13.
I am banning you from this thread.
Ruvaen
Hahahaha give me a bit of time to look it up and I'll cite a behavioral economics phenomenon that supports what I said. XD In the meantime...
The underlying assumption of neo-classical microeconomics is that people are rational and will always and only do things to maximize utility. This is not so! Relatively recent research has proven that bounded rationality (cognitive limitations) and the subjective nature of perceived utility causes people to make different decisions even if everyone involved has perfect information and the problem they face only has one "best" solution. John Nash's Game Theory is a perfect example of how people manage to behave idio... errr... in a manner that is not most efficient even when provided with perfect information and only a single solution.
The underlying assumption of neo-classical microeconomics is that people are rational and will always and only do things to maximize utility. This is not so! Relatively recent research has proven that bounded rationality (cognitive limitations) and the subjective nature of perceived utility causes people to make different decisions even if everyone involved has perfect information and the problem they face only has one "best" solution. John Nash's Game Theory is a perfect example of how people manage to behave idio... errr... in a manner that is not most efficient even when provided with perfect information and only a single solution.
eom
translation ====> they are retarded.
Barinthus
lol
I keep track of fluncating prices and won't sell any lower than the highest selling price I've seen at the trader. Trust me, gold really come in fast this way
I keep track of fluncating prices and won't sell any lower than the highest selling price I've seen at the trader. Trust me, gold really come in fast this way
Funda
regardless of what you say, it takes me no less than 5 mins to sell my 250 wood, tanned hide, iron, or cloth at 10g/per.
As to why youre making so much ruckus about what the "true" prices should be, who knows.
As to why youre making so much ruckus about what the "true" prices should be, who knows.
Francis Crawford
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ruvaen
Hahahaha give me a bit of time to look it up and I'll cite a behavioral economics phenomenon that supports what I said. XD In the meantime...
The underlying assumption of neo-classical microeconomics is that people are rational and will always and only do things to maximize utility. This is not so! Relatively recent research has proven that bounded rationality (cognitive limitations) and the subjective nature of perceived utility causes people to make different decisions even if everyone involved has perfect information and the problem they face only has one "best" solution. John Nash's Game Theory is a perfect example of how people manage to behave idio... errr... in a manner that is not most efficient even when provided with perfect information and only a single solution. |
I got my Ph.D. in game theory, and also published my last academic paper in anything that resembles economics, before most GW players were born. So maybe I've forgotten a little here or there. But I'm confident that few if any of those big words you're throwing around have much applicability here.
Any price between whatever the trader will pay and whatever the trader will buy at can be rational. It just depends on each individual's tradeoffs between time and GW money.
Francis Crawford
When negotiating, it is a lot easier to come to a conclusion if the set of feasible options can somehow be shrunk. The custom of making a price be a "round number" is widespread. For example, how many athletes these days get salary numbers that aren't divisible by 5000? Except in special cases, very few. And for most of the higher paid ones, you can add at least one more zero.
When I set an asking price for something, and prefix it with "nice round number", people are much less likely to insist on haggling downward. That's true whether it's iron at 10 gold or a clean max fire wand at 1000 gold.
When I set an asking price for something, and prefix it with "nice round number", people are much less likely to insist on haggling downward. That's true whether it's iron at 10 gold or a clean max fire wand at 1000 gold.
toramiko
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eom
Quote:
dude, you might not have noticed, but trying to sell wood at 10 is not somebody unloading stuff cheap --- 10 is really higher than it should be. all materials are 10 ---- you think this is just coincidence? if you want to defend your brethren, you'll have to come up w/something more than nonsensical excuses. |
When ever I'm passing through Forge, I just sell my materials at a generic 10g/ea to whoever is asking to buy. If they decline my offer, I just carry on and get out of town as soon as possible. I'm not one of those "sit in town selling" people. I actually like to play the game, quest, and do missions.
If I make some money like that... great, if I don't... oh well. I'll just stock pile my materials up to the point where I plan to sell them, and that's when I would check the trader for more accurate prices.
Otherwise, I just sell what I can at the set price of 10g/ea. My intentions aren't to be greedy, because I would buy the same materials that I sell for at 10g/ea if I ever needed any.
Let me also mention that I only stock up on tanned hides, iron and wood; because my guildies would often need them for armor. Everything else I would sell to the merchant. If I had it any other way, I wouldn't stock up on materials at all.
So does that make me an idiot for pricing my materials like that?
Simply put, I just don’t care how accurate my prices are. I'm not a merchant. A 1-2g difference in one piece of wood means nothing to me when buying in small quantities. After all, this is a game, and we're dealing with pseudo-cash.
So I think Ure Maker was refering to people more like me rather than the people you are thinking of oem.
lofblad
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Astalon the Grey
What I don't get is that the price of a material guy to craft steel from iron/charcoal is more costly ($200+ materials) than it is to just buy steel from a rare materials trader (~190). Wouldn't it make sense to have steel be a little cheaper to craft than to buy outright on the open market?
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eom
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lofblad
It is a lot cheaper to craft steel if you got the iron and charcoal from killing monsters instead of buying them from the trader. Sorry for stating the obvious, but what I mean is, I think the main use for the materials crafter is using looted materials, not bought.
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however, it's my understanding that these material prices are set by the market, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to these discrepancies --- I'd expect anet has other things to worry about than resetting the material crafters.
ps --- to the "quick sale" people
as I have probably pointed out several times in this thread, if you were looking for a "quick sale" you'd sell wood for less than 10.
everybody sells for 10 --- 10 is high.
funny how nobody seems concerned about the trivial few hundred gold in play money, everybody wants to save their precious minutes, but so many hug the number 10 like a life preserver......
like I said --- you people are playing this game on a computer.
lg5000
yup, you can buy steel for 180-200g from the trader, charcoal costs about 200-210g from there... and crafting steel.. ok, I have no idea how much that costs, but you'd have to have charcoal for free first to make it worthwhile. Try making deldrimor steel though, that's definatly cheaper to craft than to buy.
Manic Smile
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ruvaen
Hahahaha give me a bit of time to look it up and I'll cite a behavioral economics phenomenon that supports what I said. XD In the meantime...
The underlying assumption of neo-classical microeconomics is that people are rational and will always and only do things to maximize utility. This is not so! Relatively recent research has proven that bounded rationality (cognitive limitations) and the subjective nature of perceived utility causes people to make different decisions even if everyone involved has perfect information and the problem they face only has one "best" solution. John Nash's Game Theory is a perfect example of how people manage to behave idio... errr... in a manner that is not most efficient even when provided with perfect information and only a single solution. |
So even knowing that it would take him 3 extra hours to sell his wood for only 100 gold more, being a moron he'd still do it. Having perfect knowledge doesn't make you any less of a moron.
toramiko
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eom
if you were looking for a "quick sale" you'd sell wood for less than 10.
everybody sells for 10 --- 10 is high. |
Francis Crawford
Complicating things, it seems that the prevailing price for wood is heading down to 8. However, I just sold some for 10.
It's probably better to turn wood into parchment. That's fast, and selling parchment for 70-80 still isn't hard.
It's probably better to turn wood into parchment. That's fast, and selling parchment for 70-80 still isn't hard.
Swehurn
Knowing that the majority of people buying wood want it for parchment, I base my wood selling price on the market's current buying price for parchment.
If the trader is paying 70 gold for parchment (as I've seen relatively often lately), I'll sell wood at 10g. Why should somebody else reap "middleman" profits from my labour collecting wood? In this scenario, for less than 10g, I might as well make parchment out of all the wood and sell it straight to the trader!
Alternately, like Francis said, it's pretty easy to sell parchment to other players for 70+ ea...most of the "WTS" spam I've seen lately is still asking 80-85, so undercutting them at 70 still makes it worth my time to craft and sell parchment instead of selling wood for less than 10.
If the trader is paying 70 gold for parchment (as I've seen relatively often lately), I'll sell wood at 10g. Why should somebody else reap "middleman" profits from my labour collecting wood? In this scenario, for less than 10g, I might as well make parchment out of all the wood and sell it straight to the trader!
Alternately, like Francis said, it's pretty easy to sell parchment to other players for 70+ ea...most of the "WTS" spam I've seen lately is still asking 80-85, so undercutting them at 70 still makes it worth my time to craft and sell parchment instead of selling wood for less than 10.
eom
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Originally Posted by toramiko
I don't speak for everyone, but I do sell wood for less than 10g/ea. When I do make the effort to sell that is. But if someone in town is buying for 10g/ea and I happen to be in town and take up that offer right away. Is that not a "quick sale"?
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and in that situation, who is setting the price at 10.........?
ps
plz stop spamming my thread.