Healing Sig need a boost?

Soul Shaker

Soul Shaker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sunshine Coast, Australia

Soul Crusaders

Right now, i see it as one of the worst heals possible...

I tested it out at 15 tactics, and it still sucks comparably to the rest. It heals 152 hp, but while doing that you effectivley lose half your armour. 2 seconds in the heat of battle with 60 AL vs physical makes you a soft target. And you know how fast casters get owned by a decent group focussing. I would propose to either:

a) reduce or remove the -40 armour penalty

b)increase the healing power

c) reduce the casting time to 1 sec and maybe tone down the healing power with this.

d) give us a different way of healing ourselves (adrenal would be nice)

there is IWAY, but that's conditional, same with thrill of victory etc.

now, i have no idea how to work out regen, but the ranger heal, at 15 wilderness, i think was +10 regen. For 10 seconds.

I've only noticed this recently since i've stopped the whamos and moved on to other class types and this heal sucks. No-one has 15 tactics, most would have 8 or 9 at best, well except runners and the rare few that would use heaps of tactics skills.

bunnys are ebil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

W/Mo

quick recharge no cost is why its -40 armor i would like them to make another heal in the warrior line preferably a strength one that wasnt conditional

Ultimate_Gaara

Ultimate_Gaara

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

BC, Canada.. how aboot that eh?

The way I see it is healing sig is not a combat skill so reducing the armor may seem usless to some people. However the adrenaline skill idea does not sound too bad, but some may argue that it would make them too hard, just throw on dark furry and that one stance that gives you extra adrenaline and your set for life.

Soul Shaker

Soul Shaker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sunshine Coast, Australia

Soul Crusaders

It kinda needs to be a combat skill, cos where you take the most damage is in combat. Out of combat, the only real danger are hexes and conditions.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Try Watch Yourself!, Dolyak Signet, Defy Pain, and the numerous evasion stances that are coincidently linked to the Tactics line of skills. Also being a Signet makes it have fewer counters.

Soul Shaker

Soul Shaker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sunshine Coast, Australia

Soul Crusaders

The defy and endure pain are very dangerous to use for healing...especially if you forget about em. 300 and somethin health, still good...hey wtf? OMFG HAXORZ!!!!111!!!1

the hey wtf is the sudden realisation that it's worn off and you're on 1hp, or...negative hp.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Defy Pain for the +20 AL, not the +health. I wouldn't touch Endure Pain in PvE for the exact reason you said. Basically if you're going to use Healing Signet without any evasion or +AL boosts expect the net gain on your health to be minimal.

Align

Align

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Protectors of Awesome[AWE]

W/

It could use a buff to max possible heal, yeah.

Cyan The Archer

Cyan The Archer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark

R/

I dont think that skill needs a buff.. a buff would make it overpowered. No energy and fast recharge... If we take away the -40 armor it would be the most overpowered skill ive ever seen

007Bistromath

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Death Over Flowers

The way you get better heals is by having a monk in your party. Imagine that!

swordfisher

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

The way I run a warrior, my primary self heal is sprint. Healing sig is good when I've found a moment away from the battle, but often quite useless if I'm still targetted. Of course this is PvP tactics, in PvE it's your 'role' to be targetted at all times by every foe.

Siliconwafer

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Australia

Shameful Spirits

I'm not quite sure about this. In PvE, of course a heal sig may not be the best option, but it's usually used as a top up spell in PvP. A warrior at 90% health who uses Healing Sig is probably not going to cause attention, and so usually the reduction in armour is no big loss. A warrior at 50% or less who uses heal sig is probably going to be targeted-and rightly so. You won't get a benefit out of heal sig there.
Given the way most people use it now (i.e. as a skill to use when you're at near full health) I wouldn't consider it underpowered. Take a look at how the koreans use them-they take ten damage, up goes the +130 health heal sig.

Soul Shaker

Soul Shaker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sunshine Coast, Australia

Soul Crusaders

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007Bistromath
The way you get better heals is by having a monk in your party. Imagine that!
Well, how about, let's not always take a monk! Anyway, you'll rarely find one in late game, so a monk is not always an option (henchies are generally too stupid for later parts)

Ruvaen

Ruvaen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

CA

W/

Dolyak sig + Watch yourself + Physical/Elemental resistance = being able to use Healing sig with impunity

Align

Align

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Protectors of Awesome[AWE]

W/

Nevermind the healing sig, you can do quite a lot with impunity with that much armor buffing on yourself.

Siliconwafer

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Australia

Shameful Spirits

Never mind the fact that you now move like you're wearing concrete shoes, as well.

Katari

Katari

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Upstate

Me/

Healing Sig needs a boost? Eh? Compaired to what? Monk skills cast by a monk?

Compaired to Aura of Restoration, Ether Feast, etc, Heal Sig is pretty good. It's not even much better than Troll's Urgent, if at all.

Soul Shaker

Soul Shaker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sunshine Coast, Australia

Soul Crusaders

Actually, troll unguent counters degen very well. Healing sig sucks at it. And most of the time, you get very little return on healing in combat. Anyone know how much troll unguent would be equivalent to with 15 wilderness survival (+10 regen)?

aB-

aB-

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

I personally like the healing signet. It fits in with the warrior cost nicely because it costs no mana, something warriors lack. As stated, the -40 armor is painful only if you have no taken precautions first. An adrenal heal, however, would be nice.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

The -40AL doesn't make that big a difference, unless you're completely oblivious to your surroundings. That -40 makes no difference against a group of mesmers, necromancers, and monks since they'll be using armour ignoring attacks against a warrior. Thus, you're left with 3 class; warrior, ranger, and elementalist. Warrior and ranger can be dealt with through evasion/blocking stances 75% of the time, or the fact that they'll only get one or two attacks away while you're using it regardless.

So basically the only time you'll need to worry about that -AL is against elementalists. Not much of a threat there, since all of the big scary spells have a 2 second cast time or more, with the exception of some spells that target adjacent enemies. Those typically will cause a problem to a warrior, but in PvP those generally don't see much use and in PvE it doesn't take you long to figure out if the enemy is using them even if you're facing a new mob that you've never encountered before. So unless you're dumb enough to stand in AoEs, or start using Healing Signet as the elementalist finishes their big scary spell that -AL is nothing to worry about.

A 12 Troll Unguent (+8) to a 12 Healing Signet (130). The Unguent takes 3 seconds, then takes 10 seconds for the full duration. Healing Signet is 2 seconds to use, and 4 to recharge. So 130 health every 6 seconds against the Troll Unguent's 240 health (3 x 8 = 24 x 10 = 240 health) every 13 seconds.

Healing Signet CAN combat degeneration. Even at 10 degen (30 health per second), a 16 specced Healing Signet is 159 Health every 6 seconds. But honestly, what area will you be in alone where you'll be facing a constant 10 degen and would need 16 Healing Signet. However, I know from personal experience that a 12 specced Healing Signet can combat 3 Ancient Skales (who use Life Siphon and Life Transfer), with the aid of Watch Yourself and Dolyak Signet can not only survive but kill the 3 alone.

I would say that Healing Signet is not in need of any boost.

Guardian of the Light

Guardian of the Light

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Radicals Against Tyrants

W/

But Warriors do have another way to heal themselves though everyone wants this skills nerf its.....IWAY (DUN DUN DUN)!!!

Align

Align

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Protectors of Awesome[AWE]

W/

IWAY is only usable in rather undesirable circumstances though.

Tuoba Hturt Eht

Tuoba Hturt Eht

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Deimos Tel Arin [CCTV]

W/

Healing Signet is fine the way it is now. I pray that ANET does not plan to nerf it.

Actually, it has been "boosted"

Last time, it was you take double damage while you are activating the signet.

Now, you receive a -40 to your armor level, which is way better than taking double damage.

Sab

Sab

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

According to GuildWiki, -40AL is the same as taking double damage.

Quote:
Skills such as Healing Signet temporarily reduce AL by 40, which translates to double damage for normal attacks.
In any case, I think Healing Signet is fine as it is for all the reasons said above.

lishi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxA
According to GuildWiki, -40AL is the same as taking double damage.



In any case, I think Healing Signet is fine as it is for all the reasons said above.
only on armor effected attack...

Soul Shaker

Soul Shaker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sunshine Coast, Australia

Soul Crusaders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
The -40AL doesn't make that big a difference, unless you're completely oblivious to your surroundings. That -40 makes no difference against a group of mesmers, necromancers, and monks since they'll be using armour ignoring attacks against a warrior. Thus, you're left with 3 class; warrior, ranger, and elementalist. Warrior and ranger can be dealt with through evasion/blocking stances 75% of the time, or the fact that they'll only get one or two attacks away while you're using it regardless.

So basically the only time you'll need to worry about that -AL is against elementalists. Not much of a threat there, since all of the big scary spells have a 2 second cast time or more, with the exception of some spells that target adjacent enemies. Those typically will cause a problem to a warrior, but in PvP those generally don't see much use and in PvE it doesn't take you long to figure out if the enemy is using them even if you're facing a new mob that you've never encountered before. So unless you're dumb enough to stand in AoEs, or start using Healing Signet as the elementalist finishes their big scary spell that -AL is nothing to worry about.

A 12 Troll Unguent (+8) to a 12 Healing Signet (130). The Unguent takes 3 seconds, then takes 10 seconds for the full duration. Healing Signet is 2 seconds to use, and 4 to recharge. So 130 health every 6 seconds against the Troll Unguent's 240 health (3 x 8 = 24 x 10 = 240 health) every 13 seconds.

Healing Signet CAN combat degeneration. Even at 10 degen (30 health per second), a 16 specced Healing Signet is 159 Health every 6 seconds. But honestly, what area will you be in alone where you'll be facing a constant 10 degen and would need 16 Healing Signet. However, I know from personal experience that a 12 specced Healing Signet can combat 3 Ancient Skales (who use Life Siphon and Life Transfer), with the aid of Watch Yourself and Dolyak Signet can not only survive but kill the 3 alone.

I would say that Healing Signet is not in need of any boost.
your stats on troll are a little off. 12 WS is a +9 regen for a 2 sec cast. So it's 270 every 12 seconds. Otherwise, 135/6 seconds and lasts long enough to combat further conditions like burning. And ummm...hmmm 130 health /6secs then the -40 armour which in melee, you're screwed if you have either already use your stance or it was broken, so it is effectivley double damage. That would be a huge chunk of health taken out (a lot of the time in PvP about 70 of my heal gets cut out while using the skill.

Now, onto other skills in comparison...

it's like 324% or something for aura of restoration? At 60 secs, that is kinda sucky, but a 25 energy spell gives an 81, so it is quite reasonable and there's no penalty. Can't be used outta combat though.

Ether Feast...well...

5 energy cost, 2 sec cast, 8 sec cooldown. Slightly conditional, but is 205 hp every 10 secs. Kinda sucks...but then again, you really shouldn't be in combat.

Necro...well, too many to list, but here's their best non-elite.

At 12 death magic 340 hp, 5 energy, 1/4 cast needs an undead ally to be on decent health for full effectiveness. So, for a MM, that is 1440/ sec and 8640/6 secs.

Or, Soul Feast

10 energy, 1 sec cast, needs corpse (in later game there can be plenty of em) heals 234 hp

234 a sec, 1404/6 secs

Monk

I wouldn't know what to use here...healing touch is the most common in random, most likely cos they're using premades. With 12 healing and divine favour, 127 hp/5 and 3/4 secs. Upside, can be used on allies, so, most monk skills technically are excluded for the category of "self-heal"

trankle

trankle

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

BloodBath & Beyond

Rt/

I think the idea is that the warrior is already outfitted with the best armor in the game. The warrior line is designed for damage prevention, not recovery. At that point, you have to decide what kind of warrior you want to play. If you want good self-healing, you go with a secondary profession that gives you the heals that will benefit your build. If you want to be focused more on damage, and are willing to rely more on your team for healing, you go with a different secondary.

IMO, it's balanced pretty well right now. Buff HS too much, and expect a bunch of other threads requesting armor buffs for other classes.

Zakarr

Zakarr

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Finland

-40 AL penalty is not same as double damage. It depends from your current AL, how much AL penalties increase damage. Warriors usually have 80 AL which means 70.7% more damage if not physical when using healing signet. There is also about +20 AL vs physical damage so in that case you take about 50% more damage if physical.

Lexar

Lexar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Organised Spam

W/

A good alternative can be Victory is mine! after a few conditions. No casting time, no penalty during the use, but costs 5 energy and 15 recharge. Like sever, gash, hamstring, ViM, you get 15 energy back (hamstring and ViM are covered) and you get around 180 health back. If you also take a healing signet for when you're not in direct battle, you're covered.

Markaedw

Markaedw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/

There is nothing wrong with heal sig, I've been soloing my wammo, I have had nearly a dozen char pounding me alernating between heal sig and cyclone axe, killed them all.

Now on the other hand, I can't tell you how many times I have died waiting for troll ungent to load up. If any thing, troll needs to be boosted it takes to long, can be easily interupted, and it doesn't actually heal you, it just adds regen pips. The advantage is that it can be cast just before the fight.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

This is the reason some use their secoundary for I am not sure what other suggestions to make.

Align

Align

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Protectors of Awesome[AWE]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markaedw
There is nothing wrong with heal sig, I've been soloing my wammo, I have had nearly a dozen char pounding me alernating between heal sig and cyclone axe, killed them all.
Sounds like you're fighting L5 enemies with a L20 character. The situation is rather different in PvP.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Shaker
your stats on troll are a little off. 12 WS is a +9 regen for a 2 sec cast. So it's 270 every 12 seconds. Otherwise, 135/6 seconds and lasts long enough to combat further conditions like burning. And ummm...hmmm 130 health /6secs then the -40 armour which in melee, you're screwed if you have either already use your stance or it was broken, so it is effectivley double damage. That would be a huge chunk of health taken out (a lot of the time in PvP about 70 of my heal gets cut out while using the skill.

Necro...well, too many to list, but here's their best non-elite.

At 12 death magic 340 hp, 5 energy, 1/4 cast needs an undead ally to be on decent health for full effectiveness. So, for a MM, that is 1440/ sec and 8640/6 secs.
Unguent is 3 seconds, not 2. I was thinking of Healing Breeze for the 8 regen at 12, my mistake. Also, spells have a 1 second aftercast. You don't have any hope of casting a 1/4 second spell 4 times in one second.

Healing Signet obviously requires your attention if you're going to be using at, as in PvP I am seeing it used by top guilds in their matches. But again, if you're getting wailed on by warriors you should have monks to heal that for you. Then again, the utility of Blinding Flash/Enervating Charge eles can also prevent those other warriors from doing much. You can time the signets inbetween an elementalist's spells to prevent that nasty -40AL penalty from really hurting. Rangers from what I can tell with either spike, interrupt, or Crippling Shot/Apply Poison everything they see so no worry from massive damage from them. It's like Frenzy; you need to know when and how to use it effectively.

In PvE, Wild Blow is the only thing that is going to end stances at this moment. So outside of Finger of Chaos and your secondary is Ranger, plus the odd enemy here and there that use Wild Blow you're fairly safe in that department. If you're going to use it without stances or AL boosting skills expect it to do more harm than good, it's the way Healing Signet was designed to be used. Any changes to that would make it far too good, especially for the first skill you get in the entire game as a warrior primary.

Warskull

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2005

[out]

Healing sig is already quite good when used right. Watch Evil or WM utilize heal sig and you will see what I mean.