Communication in Guild Wars

I am doing a short research report into communication between PvE and PvP players in Guild Wars. One of the first area’s that I’d like to cover in this report is common perceptions how PvE players perceive their PvP counterparts and how PvP players perceive their PvE counterparts especially in the areas where both PvE and PvP players interact such as tombs, competition arenas, team arenas, and the challenge areas in the battle islands.

This post is not to start a flame war it’s just to gather information.

Here is a very good place to start.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ght=lieutenant

I'm primarily a PvE guy, and from my point of view I think there are many basic tension points that PvE players have with PvP players:

Common PvP perceptions about PvE

1. PvE is easy/doesn't involve hardly any skill. This perception is easy to form if you've gone through the main storyline in PvE with max-sized groups, without any attempt to solo quests/missions/areas.

2. Any individual PvP player build will work in PvE. This is generally predicated on #1 above, due to the "ease" of playing PvE in max-sized groups. Even PvP players will admit that many skills that are very useful in PvP have very limited use in PvE, such as energy denial.

Common PvE perceptions about PvP

1. PvP players are elitist. This perception is primarily due to many PvE'ers focusing on comments made by PvP'ers about the ease of PvE. This also stems from comments from both PvE'ers and PvP'ers that they can't fathom how someone would just want to exclusively play PvE or PvP (depending on what side of the fence you're on).

2. PvP problems shouldn't impact PvE play. This is mainly from the "anti-nerfing" camp, especially when it relates to skills and/or items that cause an imbalance in PvP. Many of these complaints result from PvE'ers that use their characters in PvP. Examples include the HoD items (sword, helm, etc.), discontinued items (20/20 Rockmolder, 15% Firey Flame Spitter) and other items that are available in PvE but not to a newly created PvP character.

You guys can add onto this list, although I hope that people can discuss this objectively without starting a flame war.

This sounds like a good idea, though I'd like to say as well as the people above me I hope this does not turn into a flame war, because if it does it could get bad. This guy wants to find out people's opinions, so I guess you could either neutrally give your own analysis of the reasons behind the enmity, or if you are on a particular side and have views point them out, just don't flame each other. Everyone knows what the groups think of each other, and there have been so many arguments about it before, so starting a new one is not worth it. Be sensible, people.

Often a hardcore PvE player will scoff at PvP and say it's boring and too much of a headache to deal with.

And vice-versa.

There are many PvP players who use PvE as a stepping stone to better PvP skills/items/weapons/mods and will say that PvE is boring.

Hey, im new to the game, and new to posting, so a lot of the tension is lost on me. I started playing pve. There arent a lot of skills for a new pvp character unless you have unlocked some skills so i thought that would be the way to go. I have only played pvp a few times, but i am pvping a lot more recently. It is a different type of gameplay, and for me it seems tougher, there seems to be more of a reliance on party members, and the foes keep coming back. In pve you finish off a few foes and they stay down. But I like both types of gameplay. And i like that the rules are the same for each.

I think alot of the Anti-PvP/Anti-PvE tension disolved long ago. I don't think many people seriously stick to one exteme unless they are extreme. I like to do both. If I can't find a good Tournament group, I go and do orders for a B/P group in Tombs.

I've known several other PvPers who play PvE alot. And I can still remember all the hubub among the PvP groups I was in about going to Sorrow's Furnace.

I would also like to point out that those who think there is a tension probably are in one side of the extreme themselves.

I have played the game for a long time and I have a sense - I could be dead wrong - that things are changing when it comes to PvP and PvE.

When I started it was pretty common to be hard core PvP or hard core PvE.

My sense now is that most of us play both. I think - especially when it comes to those who play PvE mostly - that PvP has become more popular. That's because long-time PvE players have finished the game several times and - even with the new areas - find little that interests them. So they tried PvP as a way to pass the time until Chapter II and ended up getting hooked.

All this seems to mean that there are more players who do both on a regular basis.

I am not saying that there isn't a 100% PvP and 100% PvE group, but I am almost postive (judging from the people I know online and just what I observe while in either PvP or PvE groups) is that the largest group seems to do some of both.

If that's true, that would also explain why there seems to be a calming of the flames between the two groups.

That done, here's my perception of the stereotypes held by both groups.

If you are a PvP player, the stereotype of a PvE only player is that there's no challenge in PvE and that the skill level is much less. In the stereotype PvE is seen as boring and only worthwhile as a way to unlock skills for PvP.

If you are a PvE only player, the stereotype of a PvP player is of a person who can be abrasive, who is too consumed with the game and turns it into a technical obsession. The PvE players who totally avoid PvP tend to worry that their mistakes will be mocked and that they'll end up looking like idiots.

Thats my sentiment exactly, Too scared to go into PVP I know PvE, and thats my comfort zone , have never PvPed

This new Alliance thingy in C2 will benifit people that play both PvE and PvP because you can fight for Resource towns in both PvP and PvE combat (I believe). So having a PvP guild and a PvE guild Ally together would be very Benifical.

Anet is basically forcing PvErs and PvPers to work together.


I do both PvP and PvE but I kind of lean to the PvP enviroment a little more.

One thing I have noticed is that there is a lot of tension when PvP players interact with PvE mostly players.

Often times, the PvP player, espcially if they have a "rank" and are part of a top guild will bully and berate the PvE players (usually followed by boasts as to their rank or the emote.)

This is not of course all encompassing, but it does happen. The PvPer tries to publicize their supposed superiority than the other way around.

Can't exactly confirm that, but there is a certain tendency that some PvE only players converted to PvP only players now that they finished the game 3 times over (or more). A lot of the PvE only players simply quit the game or waits until Chapter 2 will be released.

I'm in a guild with PvE roots. Most of my guildies still are PvE only players. Out of like 40 people, less than 5 got a rank higher than 0. When I recently tried to recruit people to enlargen our 8v8 player base, ALL people I talked to refused to join because they wanted to be in a PvP only guild. So, my conclusion is that the PvE and PvP sections of the game are still pretty segregated.

I guess (to feed another stereotype), most PvE players are recluctant to play PvP because they fear/dislike the competitive attitude that sometimes is connected to PvP. Most PvE players I've met are utterly non-competitive. They play for fun only. Often people tell me that they don't want to try PvP because it's too competitive (a.k.a. unfun). If this is true for the majority of PvE players, I doubt that the two playerbases will ever combine, since the motivatons for playing GW couldn't be more different in this case.

I play and love to play both PvE and PvP. But I still have the feeling that I am a very rare type of player in GW. I hope that I am proven wrong some day, though.

PvP takes a much more dedicated and disciplined approach to the game. Sadly, this is leaking into PvE more and more, as witnessed by the rise of the 'party build' obsession in PvE areas. Not for me, I'm not going to be the 'character type' with the 'specified-down-to-the-most-minute-details' job in your ruthlessly efficient, robotic area scouring party. Where's the fun? I can't stand to be around the proponents of that playing style, be they PvE or PvP people.

If it weren't for random arenas, I wouldn't be doing any PvP at all.

OMFG,

Let me get this straight. Your doing a school research paper on PVE vs PVP.
What r u stupid.
Get some intelligence.
How about a paper on Plate Tectonics.
How about a paper on The French Revolution.
How about a paper on the Hundred Years War.
How about a paper on the Muslem Invasion of India in the 12th century.

Good Grief, become an intelligent person.

He didn't say that it was related to school. He may be writing something for a GW-related website.

Many PvE characters will become PvP when the player becomes more aware of what that class can do, PvE is a good learning tool to become good at PvP. Like I just got my R/mes to be a IWAY trapper..even tho i always hated PvP becuase it seemed boring and a waste of time

I know

Both groups carry this Sterotypes:

"There is nobody who does both PvE and PvP" Couldn't be mroe untrue.

You just asked if he was stupid with the phrase "What r u stupid." I could tear this apart but let's just say that I'm trying to avoid a flame war and would say constructive criticism only. As far as PvE vs PvP goes. I strongly reccomend you include something on peoples view on PvP players and /rank.

PvP - You play to win. Anything it takes to win given the rules and scope of the game, I'll do it (8v8). The best opponent is another human, since they're unpredictable and it's lots of fun to keep changing tactics while fighting. No battle is ever the same!

PvE - Just have fun, relax, explore the map and bash monsters. You can pretty much run anything in PvE since it's pretty easy and predictable. I have school in the day, work during the night. Don't always have time to setup groups and take halls so... PvE is a nice option when I'm short on time.

PvE frustrates me more because people seem to do whatever they feel like it. Horrible skillbars, slow ressing, leeroying, and more. You don't get that in an organized 8v8 PvP group... The good thing is that monsters don't take much to die.

I also realize that I never add anyone onto my friend's list after a PvE run. I usually just want to get the hell out and never talk to those people again since I got my drops.. I'm ready to jet. :| For PvP, I'm always adding friends and feeling bad having to delete some of the inactive ones on my list. When I log on, I usually get invites to play PvP instantly or whispers from old PvP friends just wanting to chat. I never get that from PvE!

The best way to play this game is definitely to join a guild that is slanted towards PvP, but is also willing to PvE. You get people that you can trust and work well in both types of the game.

So. Does this make me an 'elitist carebear'? :P

I'm a PvE player, and stay out of PvP for the most part. I don't feel that they are elitest or whatnot. I just have very little desire to do more then the occasional random battle. I'm very unskilled in PvP, something that keeps me back from going in. Maybe with Factions, I can pick up some PvP skills.

Just another point of view: I personally know one PhD who has done extensive research into online games (he looked at online economies) and I have read of other academics who study games.

Online games provide a limited and controlled environment to look at specific questions -- everything from how economies take shape to how people relate to different groups.

Hmm, rather closed minded, in my opinion. Slightly ironic too ^^

Assuming that the person is doing a paper on people's behaviour, why would any of your topics be relevant?

As the above post said, online gaming provides an environment in which a person can study the trends in the behaviour of others, and, if applicable, how the anonymous or faceless identity of everyone changes the way they act.

Leave him alone. People are entitled to be interested in and so spend time doing anything they want. I respect people who do things like this, especially when it's largely community-based.

This is good, nobody apart from this guy has flamed yet. Keep quotes to a minimum, quoting is often the thing that ignites an argument.

I mostly agree with Borkbork's assessment of the differences between PvP and PvE play - though I tend to lead in the opposite direction Speaking in generalisations here, PvP play tends to be more rigorous and precise, with a lot of concern for close teamwork and finding skill combinations that work well in terms of game mechanics. This is where you get a lot of popular arena skill combos or team builds, like ranger spike, IWAY, Gale warrior, etc., that only tend to pop up in PvE when players are faced with extreme challenges from the computer opponent (eg, Underworld).

PvE is more focused on individual play without the pressure of a human player actively trying to one-up you (and thereby forcing you to pour over your skills to come up with a combo to one-up them first). In addition, there are a number of aspects to PvE play that go beyond straight combat, the main one being the economy. So with this in mind, "PvE players" might think about their builds and how they play the game a little differently than PvP players: that a skill or combo is effective so long as it takes down the enemy, no matter what it lacks in "technique". Or, conversely, there are farming and running builds that require a lot of concentration on game mechanics - but this doesn't necessarily translate into combat prowess (I doubt a 55 monk or a Forge runner build would be a spectacular performer in the team arenas o_o).

This can translate into a few stereotypes that, like all stereotypes, may be true sometimes but tend to be given a lot more credibility than they deserve. Namely, that PvE players know precisely squat about game mechanics, and PvP players are tightly-wound metagame nazis.

The PvP/E divide is slowly diminishing, though, as some of the more open-minded members of the GW community decide to give the other side a shot (and geez, they just happen to like it! I'm not a very competitive person, but I'm an avid fan of PvP now); meanwhile, the players who came in not understanding that GW was about PvP AND PvE, not just one with the other mode of play being an afterthought tacked on by the development team, have since gotten fed up with this game that's not WoW or Counterstrike and left, taking a lot of the PvP vs. PvE grief in the community with them.

[14:58:20] JA779: "I am doing a short research report into communication between PvE and PvP players in Guild Wars."
[14:58:22] JA779: ...
[14:58:29] Senraa: uhhh
[14:58:31] Senraa: what
[14:58:39] JA779: I hate it when people think they are cool for doing stuff about games in school.

Seriously, what the hell.

Your topic and scope is so esoteric that I am unable to grasp how can this research benefit anyone or anything - beyond answering the "Can we all just get along?" issue in GW.

.02

Apology,

I was wrong to flame you so harshly.
It was completely out of my character.

My rant was actualy not aimed at you but at the american school system that would allow a research paper like this. It all contributes to the dumbing of america.
My rant was also aimed at the constant bickering between PVE and PVP. I am sick of these threads. We are all one Guild Wars Nation.

Thank You

God forbid there could be social interaction issues hidden behind the game?

It is a very interesting idea, with the game as a framework.

Ok, let's compare Chess v Checkers players? Would that make it more palettable and meet with your expectations of a good topic?

Flag Football v Leagues/Competetive?

Think outside the box.

The reason I don't play PvP is that, as with many other competetive areas, once an acceptable "build" is discovered, any deviation from that is frowned upon. You can't be as creative and stay competetive. Sure every new build had to be creative at some point, but then it becomes the norm and the strict rule until another comes around, usually as a challenge to the current top dog.

It also breed mimicry. Oh what's your build? Let me copy it exactly and then play it without putting any effort into it. Then let's become snobs about it (Anyone having a problem joinging an IWAY group if you're under rank x?)

Sure there are "party builds" in PvE, but they also tend to be more forgiving, and allow for more freedom of build and varation.

A little more clarity:

This reseach project is just something to do on the side. I'm just interested in the interaction between the two types of players. However we now have a third group. Players who switch between the both PvE and PvP.

The next direction to take is to play a PvP event with a combination of PvE and PvP players and a PvE event with a combination of PvP and pvE players.

Once searching is re-instated, and if you're at all interested on how much people play one over the other (in percentages, even!) there is a good thread someone started not more than a few weeks ago asking players what % of time they spent on PvE and PvP.

If it's mindset of one type of player over another that you're interested in, you can be a "fly on the wall", so to speak, in any of the PvP primary areas on the battle isles and watch the general chat in the room, and obviously read these forums and this thread ... although that will only give you the opinions of the GW community that use these forums

Good luck, let us know anything noteworthy that you discover!

EDIT: Here's the link to the post I mentioned: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112208&highlight=pve+pvp+percenta ge