The difference between plate and gladiator.

Kurow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

Faces of Death [Tye]

R/W

02 Mar 2006 at 01:28 - 1

Personally I prefer plate to gladiator's armor, because I do not find much use for the +5 energy. Also I think the difference bettween 85 armor and 80 armor is much greater than 95 and 100.

Firstly, the energy. Thats personal preference really.

Secondly the armor. According to guildwiki, the armor effect is equivilant to 2^((Effective Damage Level * Effective Armor Level)/40).
*(NOTE: I am assuming effective damage level to be 60, which associates with a 12 rank in marks/axe/sword, etc for noncasters)
**(NOTE2: the damage reduction I speak of is a number multiplied by the base damage, such that it only does (damage reduction * 100)% damage)

With out a shield, and a full suit of 80 AL armor, the damage reduction is .707, while an 85 AL suit's reduction is at .648. A difference of almost 6%!

But thats for non physical damage, against physical damage it is a comparison between 100 (gladiators), and 95(plate). The plate armor at 95 armor against physical has a damage reduction of .545, while the 100 AL gladiators has a damage reduction of .500, a difference of 4.5%. But this is all without a shield, and what warrior that is preoccupied with defense doesnt use a shield?

With a shield, assuming it is 16 defense, the first comparison is between 96 and 101. The numbers come out to be .536 and .491, respectively. Still a differense of 4.5%.

Against physical damage and with a shield, the armor level for plate is 111, while gladiators is 116. Respectively, the damage reduction for them are .413 and .379. This is a differense of 3.4%, much less than the initial 6%.

To conclude, the damage reduction rates for plate are:
.648 against non physical w/o shield,
.545 against physical w/o shield,
.491 against non physical w/shield, and
.413 against physical w/shield.

The damage reduction for gladiator are as follows:
.707 against non physical w/o shield,
.500 against physical w/o shield,
.536 against non physical w/shield, and
.379 against physical w/shield.

To most people this wouldnt be a significant differences, but a difference of 4.5% damage against non physical stuff seems pretty decent to me. In the end, the difference between the two is such that plate has 4.5% more reduction than glads against non physical, while glads has 3.4% more reduction than plate against physical, with a shield.

Be sure to tell me if this is completely useless :P

Spenser_For_Hire

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Mar 2006 at 08:09 - 2

much more physical damage going around then elementalists

Kurow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

Faces of Death [Tye]

R/W

02 Mar 2006 at 08:45 - 3

Me NoFat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

USA

Crimson Explorers Worldwide {CrEw}; Lifetime graduate of [LBS]

02 Mar 2006 at 09:33 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

Personally I prefer plate to gladiator's armor, because I do not find much use for the +5 energy. Also I think the difference bettween 85 armor and 80 armor is much greater than 95 and 100.

There are so many uses for +5 energy on a warrior. Maybe I just farm and run too much but I will never leave my set of glads in the closet collecting dust. I have 2 other sets but Glads is my personal choice most often. I would also say that the difference between 85 and 90 is the same between 95 and 100.....5

Quote: Originally Posted by Kurow To conclude, the damage reduction rates for plate are:
.648 against non physical w/o shield,
.545 against physical w/o shield, ________
1.193

Quote: Originally Posted by Kurow .491 against non physical w/shield, and
.413 against physical w/shield. ______
0.904

Are you stating that the damage deduction is less with a shield or am I just too tired or stupid to understand this?

Quote: Originally Posted by Kurow

The damage reduction for gladiator are as follows:
.707 against non physical w/o shield,
.500 against physical w/o shield, ______
1.207

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

.536 against non physical w/shield, and
.379 against physical w/shield. ________
0.915

So is the overall damage reduction over time is better with glads then? If we face the same # of physical and elemental damage over time this would suggest that glads is better in the long run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

To most people this wouldnt be a significant differences, but a difference of 4.5% damage against non physical stuff seems pretty decent to me. In the end, the difference between the two is such that plate has 4.5% more reduction than glads against non physical, while glads has 3.4% more reduction than plate against physical, with a shield. Maybe my math sucks above but I dont understand how you are getting the 4.5 and 3.4 over time.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

02 Mar 2006 at 10:08 - 5

A 30% increase in a Warrior's base energy isn't personal preference, unless you somehow built an all-adrenaline skillbar. If you're a PvE tank, chances are you already have skills that buff your armor, so the differences between armor levels are even less relevant. At 9 Strength, "Watch Yourself!" and Dolyak Signet give a combined increase of 48 armor. Platemail with a shield and +5 armor weapon is at 154 vs elemental compared to 149 for Glad. That's .196 for Plate compared to .213 for Glad, which is a grand difference of... 1.7% damage. In PvP you generally deal with a lot of physical damage currently, so Gladiator's slightly wins out. So if the AL's not important, then it comes down to the fact that one has +energy and the other doesn't.

Me NoFat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

USA

Crimson Explorers Worldwide {CrEw}; Lifetime graduate of [LBS]

02 Mar 2006 at 10:13 - 6

^agree

Poison Ivy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Toronto

Hopping

Mo/A

02 Mar 2006 at 10:24 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

There are so many other things that deal non physical damage then elementalists though. And really, if you are tanking, are you worried about the warrior enemies hurting you too much? Or is it the casters? Atleast when I do I worry about the latter. That is actually ture, for spellcasters tend to be more effective when it comes to dealing with Warriors that arn't very capable of self heal and must rely on armor, but thats just PvP

bongo-666

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/W

02 Mar 2006 at 10:30 - 8

i chose glads cuz i think it looks way better on a female warior male warior i prefer plate's

Battle Torn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scotland

W/Mo

02 Mar 2006 at 11:37 - 9

I have FoW armour and it all looks the same which I like because I use glads chest, leggins and gloves and ascalon boots as this offers the best compromise in my opinion between global dmg reduction (from boots+rune) and energy from glads. I agree the extra energy isnt essentioal for a warrior, but it does help with dp reducing your max energy...dont rule that out

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

02 Mar 2006 at 14:37 - 10

Generally when it comes to playing the PvE tank, it doesn't take a lot of +AL to make physical damage tickle. You can easily make a mob deal 0 damage (or close to) with their straight attacks, but in order to completely reduce the damage of a spell you're going to need a lot more defense. Also when it comes down to it, you can't reduce the +damage bonus from attack skills through raw AL.

Even without the +armour boosts, magical attacks are going to do more damage regardless of choice. There are few exceptions in some of the high end areas (Bladed Aatxe, Dragon Lich, etc..) whose normal attacks deal a lot more damage than your typical mobs.

striderkaaru

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Retired Officer

02 Mar 2006 at 15:38 - 11

it really just comes down to personal preference.

the +energy on a base energy pool isn't really that much of a benefit, as energy regen/management is a lot more important than the base pool itself. once you've used up that extra energy, that advantage is gone. you'll still have to wait for all of it to regen back. the only thing it allows is for you to string together an extra energy based skill in a fast sequence.

this is the same reason why some people will argue that the hod sword really isn't all that great. sure, the extra energy helps, but it isn't that much of a big deal.

most times, i use platemail in pve simply because i don't like running around in a man-bra. knowing that i only had 20 base energy, i have always created my builds accordingly and have never had any energy problems.

Kurow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

Faces of Death [Tye]

R/W

02 Mar 2006 at 18:13 - 12

Me NoFat the damage reduction number is multiplied by the base damage, so having a damage reduction of .500 would make the attack do 50% of the normal damage, while a damage reduction of .300 would make the attack do 30% of the normal damage.

About the +5 energy, as striderkaaru said, it doesnt matter so much how much energy you have, but how fast you regen it. No matter how big you pool is, its going to regen at the same rate. This means you can get in one more attack before needing to regen. That doesnt seem to great to me, and you should be designing a build around the maintainability of energy usage, unless youre a runner or spiker or something.

audioaxes

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

02 Mar 2006 at 18:26 - 13

forget all that nonsense, just bring platemail because it looks "leet" which will overwhelm the opposition in fear

Kurow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

Faces of Death [Tye]

R/W

02 Mar 2006 at 22:28 - 14

Well actually i wear the 15k dragons armor instead of the 15k gladiators, and thats realy why i made this thread :P

XBC

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Indiana

[ROME]

W/Mo

02 Mar 2006 at 22:50 - 15

The only time I ever use 85 al armor is when I ice imp farm. Everywhere else, the +5-7 energy is beneficial to me. PvP is Gladiators for sure though.

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

02 Mar 2006 at 23:01 - 16

Glads still wins over plate for raw physical tanking efficiency. The bonus energy is a nice perk that never hurts, especially when used with Bonetti's.

sh4ft3d

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away...

Frank Ought To Monk [FotM]

02 Mar 2006 at 23:42 - 17

An all adrenaline build that Savio was talking about would have to use Battle Rage. A bit off topic, but i think its important to outline the possibilities. Giving up a damage Elite for BR isnt something too many people are willing to do.

Just Another Dude

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Mar 2006 at 23:55 - 18

Plate looks cool

... but also... what about the fact that platemail has +10 physical on teh chestpiece while glad has no + for the chest... which is the most probable place to be hit... that means 95 vs physical and 85 vs the rest for plate and only 80 vs everything for the glad

De One

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/R

03 Mar 2006 at 01:58 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Another Dude

Plate looks cool

Just Another Dude

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

03 Mar 2006 at 02:14 - 20

oh... I was using the armor charts off gwonline.. says gladiators doesnt have +20 on the chestpiece.. sorry

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Us Are Not [leet]

03 Mar 2006 at 03:35 - 21

You will not ever even notice the damage differnce if you use a +5 armor defence sword/axe/hammer mod.

I had both dragons and glads and just recently salvaged my dragons for the sup absorb and sup vigor. Glads is also better because it allows more flexability with builds that may require more energy.

Kurow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

Faces of Death [Tye]

R/W

03 Mar 2006 at 05:09 - 22

If you are fighting a battle thats longer than 10 seconds, I have trouble believing that an exrta 5 energy makes more difference than one attack. When does this 5 extra energy actually come in handy? Do you notice times when you just used 20 energy and then imediately had to use another 5? My point is, no matter what warrior armor you are wearing, you still only have 2 pips of energy regen. Gladiators armor doesnt change that. That means you can only use energy at the same rate as before with out running out. Unless your energy consumption only depletes your energy very slowly, its not the +5 energy that helps.

Also what are these builds that require 25 energy as opposed to 20?

Me NoFat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

USA

Crimson Explorers Worldwide {CrEw}; Lifetime graduate of [LBS]

03 Mar 2006 at 06:23 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

Also what are these builds that require 25 energy as opposed to 20? There are so many that I do not care to name them. If you have never seen one than you need to read these boards more often. There is a new Tombs build that uses the extra energy from Glads + extra energy from a 20/20 rockmolder so that you can use IW effective. There are W/E builds that use energy. Many W/Mo builds that use the extra energy.

I can't tell you how many times I have been in a fight or running someone and 2-3 energy was the difference between life or death. 5 energy matters. Why do you think most people have a set of weapons that offers them a high energy build?

I am not going to argue that glads is the end all be all of warrior armor but please do not trivialize an advantage just because you do not like the armor.

Kurow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

Faces of Death [Tye]

R/W

03 Mar 2006 at 09:10 - 24

You only get this 5 energy bonus at the start, after you have been fighting, its not what you start with that matters. Also, I still have trouble seeing where you would need 25 instead of 20. Could you give me one example?

Battle Torn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scotland

W/Mo

03 Mar 2006 at 13:11 - 25

An example would be if you have DP...having more energy means you still can use your 15 energy skills for longer even though you have died few times. Also every time in between battles you regen so the 5 bonus isnt just at the start. But mostly it just means you have the option of using more energy based skills in progression, I cant think of anyone who hasnt ran out of energy and having a larger pool of energy makes this more managable. Some like glads for this reason, but I like mainly for allowing more DP. There are some skills that require 25 energy but that depends if you want these in your build, but some do. In the end you either like this or dont..but both are ok