I want to rough it

/signed

I rember those good old days and explore parties - no object not a farming goal to just go out and look for things.

It's more now W/Mo leaves because there is W/E Earth in the party, Monk leaves becuase the Nerco is not a well or SS or I'm going to run it despite the wishes of the party

I've adapted but miss the good old ruffing it myself and any choices going back to it is a plus. OP pm me anytime you want to rough it, I'm with you.

No, you're wrong.

Opinions, by definition, can't be right or wrong. An opinion is a view based on personal judgement.

For example, is abortion right or wrong? Depends on who you ask. And you're not going to be able to convince one who feels strongly about it either way to change their mind.

Back to the OP, b/c I don't want to totally derail this thread (too late!), I think the newness is what I'm most looking forward to in Factions. I know it won't take long for every little secret to be posted here, but those few days before it happens will be bliss indeed.

An opinion based on misinformation, flawed judgment, or in fact no information/fact at all is a wrong opinion.

Sigh...


Your assertion that PvE is in fact EASY is by all accounts an Opinion. That is, that you believe it to be easy and perhaps you have friends who would agree with you. However, just because that may be present, does not make that a fact. I adhere to the school of thought that there are plenty of challenges in PvE. By your logic, my opinion is WRONG, which is as you said previously -- "blatantly incorrect".

Look, if we're going to make this discussion about general analogies to a point that was digressed upon, we can keep at it all day. However, I want to point out -- in this instance -- that your assertion is wrong. Unless you can collect empirical data and have a panel of scholars agree and test it, blah blah blah -- only then may it **possibly** be asserted as a Fact. Get my point?

I don't much like being felt like my comment is being called out because someone views it as flawed logic/judgement. It's a bit ironic that your assertion that an opinion is either right or wrong is merely an opinion in and of itself.

So an opinion that disagrees with yours is automatically based on misinformated, flawed judgement, or in fact no information?

lol, and you said you weren't arrogant.

You have a much different definition of what an opinion is than I do.

An opinion does not have to be "based" on any kind of evidence or information at all.

"God is Good." That's an opinion, no fact or information can either prove or disprove that statement.

"Guild Wars Sucks." This, too, is an opinion. You will not be able to convince the person that he or she is wrong, and vice versa.

Facts are something that can be proved to be true. Opinions cannot be proved, for they are not based on anything but someone's feelings.

Unless there is a scientific method for discerning the level of difficulty in a video game, you're going to be very hard pressed to either prove or disprove the opinion that PvE is easy.

Yes, the new experience of a game is great. I didn't skip anything my first time through the game.

And when Factions comes out, I'll play through with a ritualist, taking my time.

I remember a thread about "What will you do when you get Factions?" and the majority of the people said something like "rush through it", etc. Why the **** would you want to rush/run through a brand-new game with all new content?

Hit me up in game some time, we'll go farm the southern shiverpeaks... You lead of course.

I agree with you, If something doesnt satisfy someones needs for a challenge then why even participate in it? I know if I didnt see atleast a few things in the game to still be challenging I would have just played something else until Factions came out. I never got a run anywhere, I always baught armor as I came to a new town or outpost that offered it. Im not sure what a cookie cutter build is but I always thought of my own builds... some were easier to kill with than others really werent for killing but supporting the team but they were my builds and mine alone.

YES! I cant wait for all of that either!!

I feel sorry for people like you really. Wasting their money and time on something that isnt "challenging" I mean what did you gain out of buying the game? the fact that you are able to say "yeah... that was easy, I did it so quick with no problems at all." I see those lvl 20 elites mofo's just kneeling or sitting somewhere in toa or grotto because they have already done everything there is to do and see no reason to do anything else because its too easy *plays the sad violin*

Can I add that in perdition rock the henchies just stand in meteor shower?

Man. Why do people feel they need to argue about everything...

Anyway, Great post Wind of Horus. I absolutely agree with you. I can't wait .

Has solo taken on a new meaning?..

Not really, it happened so fast I don't know what hit me.


I agree with you 100% Wind of Horus, can't wait to go exploring in Cantha.

I really loved the intense combats I was in. When SF farming wasn't that popular yet, I really enjoyed to kill everything that crossed our way. To bad you can't do that anymore because everyone wants to farm SF Or.. If anyone wants to clear out SF for 100%.. I'm always up for that kinda things

This post will probably be deleted, but whatever. I'm typing it out anyway.

When I said--

I was not at all referring to ANY SPECIFIC OPINION, whether in this thread, or anywhere. Not my own, not anyone else's. I'm saying that an opinion CAN be right or wrong, depending on where--not who!--the opinion came from. If I said "You know what, I'm of the opinion the sun is actually blue" that would be a wrong opinion, because it's based entirely on misinformation.

See above. Nowhere did I state I was referring to my opinion.

It's like you people are so quick to write me off as an arrogant prick that you don't even read my posts.

Semantics. Arguing over definitions is hardly the basis of a good debate.

Then what's the point of having the opinion in the first place?

"I've never ever played or watched or read anything about Guild Wars, in fact I don't know anything about it at all, but it's a horrible game and I hate it and nothing you tell me will make me change my mind because I've arbitrarily decided this."

That's a wrong opinion.

What makes a difference is what those feelings are based on, and where they came from. See my above example.

/signed
Althou sometimes i`m searching for DP so bad (just try farming outside rankor with 2 man trapper party... fun fun fun ... run trap run trap die... wtdf ... go again)

I agree....
I miss those Days SOOOOOO much. makes me want to cry...well not really, but you guys get the idea.

I gotta add to this a thought.

Why do people power level in GW?!?
I can see why in other online games, with a lvl 60 cap (I sitll think it is lame, but I can see why).

With a level 20 cap, why bother? It really doesn't take that long to reach the max, and as stated, it makes doing all those early mission worthless.

I know, it is because they want the character to farm etc., but why not just fight your way to get ascended (skipping anything unneccesary) and you will have more money (isn't that the point of farming) and you will be at level 20. And as a bonus it only takes slightly longer and you won't have to worry about idiot runners/power-levelers who promise but can't deliver.

I just don't get it.

Back on topic:

I like fighting when I don't know what to expect, and I love trying to find new ways to fight/new areas to explore. Ahh, new stuff is great.

Edit:

No matter what the reasoning, an opinion can NEVER be wrong. A fact can be wrong, but only because it is based on something that can be measured in some way. A theory is similar to an opinion in that it can NEVER be proved wrong (unless you are omnipotent) because it is not something that can be absolutely proven to begin with.

I can say "I hate green." No matter what you say, that statement will never be wrong as long as it is what I think. If I change my opinion, it is still right, and the origional opion (before the chage) is still not wrong. It may not be right *for me* anymore, but that does not make it wrong.

Opinions are 100% based on personal experience, and there is nothing that can make the perception of those experiences false. They can be inaccurate, but not false. My wife has never actually played Guild Wars, but she DOES hate it. She thinks it is an awful game. She is not wrong to think that, but I disagree with her about it (of course it is my opinion do do so).

It's a bit abstract but true nonetheless.

I really don't want to get into semantics, weltanschauung, and the intent and inflection of one's posts on a discussion that has already digressed from the OP's intent.

It's clear that we have a seemingly fundamental difference of opinion here -- so let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

To get back on topic: I literally cannot wait to get my hands on the new GW:F content and actually get LOST. To have no idea where I am, and have no aide to guide me. I can't wait to "discover" new towns and outposts and great screenshot areas. I really, really hope that Cantha is bigger than Tyria!

A copout, but if you aren't going to continue, then I suppose I won't either. Whatever.

/signed

get my /deaths past 8k

Suspect at best. Why have an argument or debate here in a thread (thats centered around the joys of discovering new stuff in Factions) about Opinions? We both know it'll get just a tad flamesome and our posts will most likely (read: inevitably) be deleted. It's just not worth it, and I'd rather do/search/play/read something more fulfilling. Is that a better explanation for you?

I like it rough!

A/S/L?

Well, since this thread came to open blows...

IMO, PvE IS challenging. The first time you play it. When noone in your PUG/team has played it before. When you DON'T know the bonus. When you DON'T know to kill the boss LAST in THK, etc, etc.

It's vastly connected with the run/powerleveling problem discussed. There is a lot of veteran no-nonsense players who just rush it. There is also a lot of noobs that want to become uber in a matter of hours/days. It kills RPG elements quickly. Missions would be a greater challenge (when playing for the first time) if you got players who (like yourself) never played it before(now, if you get such a group you're likely to call em noobcakes) . But considering the game's age that's not likely. How can I immerse myself in the mission and explore it in depth (would last a little longer, little more added value, IMHO) when you got a player with 2 accounts in your PUG yelling OMG SKIP SKIP SKIP NOOBZ all the time?

I know this is a rant...but consider I'm a fresh player (playing under 200 hours) who's experience was somewhat ruined by aforementioned things. My girlfriend who started playing recently can't find a decent group because all you can see nowdays is "need runner" and "WTB max dmg xy", etc in mission areas. Go bloody earn it...

I am a hardcore RPG'er and I hate cheating of any kind. I even consider guild donating stuff to newbie members cheating, so you see my frustration. Go there and earn it goddammit! I even refused to look at maps on the web (and elite locations)...that's why I didn't finish yet!

So at long last I must say that perhaps it's not "rough it up" issue, but instead "give new content" issue. Otherwise, people who played it will always know how to make it with minimal effort - no challenge in that. There is challenging missions/quests, but the community had found exploits to take away the real challenge. And there are always those 20lvl characters helping missions in start areas willing to help out the newbies. It makes newbies feel like NPC's, not like active players (since lvl 20 kills EVERYTHING in his wake).

I know it's good intention to help someone, but remember, road to hell is paved with good intentions!

I'm no PvP'er since simply because I can't find a shred of RPG in that.

My guild and I got really bored and did a 4 man run in ToPK with a stance W/Me, a boon prot, a resolve nuker, and an MM and cleared out the whole place in under 2 hours. None of us died. Not even once.

It's easy. Really easy. No reason why you NEED to be in a barrage/pet group to find it easy.

the book trick for FoW....


oh god...boring....boring....ugh I am dead of boredom.

Same. The day it came out, the first run I did of it, we completed it with 4 people. Two boon prots, one W/E stance tank (pure luck he wasn't W/Mo), and a Spitefull Necro with 4 skills on his bar. We knew nothing about what to expect or do, nothing about fingers of chaos, etc.

Is PvE easy? Yes, that would be my opinion. I would however maintain that it is fact aswell. There is no challenge left in PvE. The only thing that made it challenging, was not knowing what to expect. However, once you have done every mission once, you know exactly what to expect. What skills to take, what groups to pull, what order to do things in... etc. PvE is simply not dynamic enough for it to remain a challenge.