XP and Powerleveling

small question: next BWE Some friends and I want to use some PvP-chars (the lvl20 ones) to plvl the PvE-chars. Is that a smart thing to do? Cause we spent too much time getting to Lions Arch while being lvl 8 / lvl 11...

bunny masterm there is no real way to power level a character in this game i dont think, becaude in order to be on the same map as the characters u want to p/l u have to be grouped, and when you are grouped you all spit XP equally among you, no matterwhat lvl you are, IE. i went hunting one time with level 12-14 char's and even tho we were all the same level fighting creatures that were around lvl 15+ we all only got like 16 xp a kill or less? so imagine if u r lvl 20 trying to p/l a levle 1? it would probably take more time than if u just hunted with another elvel 1 for a couple of hours, you would both lvl at the same time practically. i think this was impleemeted by arena because this game is all about grouping with players your own level and not just a rush to get to the almighty lvl 20...JMO

Actually there is a difference, I took my girlfriend out (shes level 3 and did all the kills myself at level 9 witha friend at level 9). We both got 12-16 xp, she got 32-40. Still not huge power leveling but that was only char

Lansing Kai Don

Well, the idea behind it was to get our lowerlvld chars safely to Lions Arch. The fact that they would receive some xp, was a side benefit.

That sounds about right. You do split XP when you group but the amount of XP you gain depends on your level.

It's something like this: To gain XP you need to earn a share of XP. To earn a share you have to attack a creature, cast a skill on someone attacking a creature, or cast a skill on someone who's earned a share - this means Monks, healers, support characters, and others who don't actually hit a critter can still gain XP, you can have long, extended chains of XP sharing, but someone hanging back and trying to "leech" is out of luck. You don't fight, you don't get XP because you don't get a share.

The amount of a share depends on how many people have earned it.Now, let's say that share represents a fraction of 1. If you have one person earning a share they get a full share or 1. Two people each gets half a share or 1/2. Three people get 1/3 each. And so on, the more people earning XP the less each person gets but the larger the party the less you'll lose. 1 vs 1/2 is a much steeper drop than 1/7 versu 1/8, after all.

Now, when a creature dies it grants some XP. Let's call it, say, a "lot" of XP. That lot depends on the level of the creature, the higher the level the more that lot is worth. That lot is then divided amongs a party based on the shares earned. If, say, every level a creature has is worth 10 XP, a single character killing a lv10 creature gets a lot of 100XP. Two characters get 50XP. Three characters get 33XP. And so on.

But, it's not quite as simple as that because just as a creature's level affects XP so does the level of the character recieving a share. That seems to work as a percentile. If you're at the same level as a creature you'll get 100% of your share of the XP lot. If you're higher you'll earn less, until at a certain point you won't earn any XP, and if you're lower level you'll earn more. So, let's say that each level your character's off from that creature level is worth 10% of a share. If a lv12 character kills a lv10 creature they get 1 share but they get 80% of its value or 80XP. If they were lv8 they'd get 120XP instead. The same thing happens when that lot is split and it happens *by share* not by the total lot. If a lv12 character and a lv8 character combine to kill a lv10 creature then the lv12 gets 40XP and the lv8 gets 60XP - or 100/2 -> 50x80% and 50x120%. Not, say 120/2 or 80/2. The more characters, the more that happens. A lv12, lv11, lv10, lv9, and lv8 character would the appropriate percentage of 1/5th of 100XP or 16, 18, 20, 22, and 24XP respectively.

Of course, I made all those numbers up as I'm not really sure exactly how it all works. But the model - creatures give set XP decided by level, characters gain a share of that XP based on party size and modified by their own level - seems to fit. It's just somethign that requires data mining to get the appropriate base values. Kill something at, say, level 5 that's level 5, level 10, and level 15 maybe - solo. Make sure there's no varience in XP from creature type to creature type. Then kill things again at varying levels and then with varying party sizes to figure out exactly how the partitioning works. It's a bit much to get done over a beta weekend, in other words. Although someday it'll need to get figured out.

So a 2P-team (lvl 20 PvP and a lvl 1 RPG) kill a lvl 20 monster. The PvP does most of the work, while the RPG only hits it once. In your opinion, the RPG (low lvld) would get Y x Share XP (Y= bonus for killing monster above his lvl). He doesn't even have to hit the monster, just casting something on his teammate would be enough. If that's the case, then plvl seems quite possible.

Before we get way Off Topic here, I think the "hardest" work will be making an almost perfect build. Not lvling or crafting or hunting, like in most MMORPGS. Also different from most MMORPGS is the fact that you can't really make a super +7 armor with gems/inscriptions/runes that no one else can have. AFAIK you have the "basic" lvl 20 armor and some runes to add, that's it. It all comes down to the skills you've chosen to use during PvP / GvG. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Just to clarify, PvP-generated characters can not enter any PvE areas, and thus couldn't help "powerlevel" anyway. As it stands, the best/fastest way to level is to simply do missions and keep up on your quest log. Exactly how it should be.

Okay, newly split off thread to continue this tangent.

True, but a lv20 RP character will have access to the same maps and areas as any other RP character and that's the only difference between it and a PvP character, functionally (Well, if it's not your first lv20 you miss out on being able to add skills as you want and all that..) and once a character is out of the tutorial they can group with characters of any level. So, it is possible to "powerlevel" a lower level character with a higher level one. A lv20 character is a buzzsaw in the early missoins, I know I've done it, one-hitting most creatures and they can take a full team or a single lower-level character through missions very quickly. And it's missions, of course, where the most XP is located. You get XP for finishing it, more for the secondary, and more for the creatures you kill, it's much quicker than just parking in an EA and slaughtering critters and it gives that powerleveled character access to more of the game.

Of course, as has been said, it's not really all that good because what's the point? I've run several characters from level 1 to level 20 - alone, solo, by myself, and without access to the proper maps at the proper levels at many points, and I also take time out mine data or PvP or chat with other people or whatever, so I'm not exactly a leveling demon here - and the longest it's taken me is about 40 hours. Mostly it's closer to 30. Given that there's be more missions, higher level characters, and people to team with and all that come release, I'd say a guesstimate of a solid day of gameplay to reach level 20 isn't too far off. You get, by powerleveling a character through those early missions, a few hours shaved off that at best. You'll eventually need to move on to harder and harder maps to keep the XP flow up and eventually it'll be more than a lv20 and, say, a lv10 can handle alone. It grinds down and you'll eventually be progressing just as quickly as someone who wasn't powerleveled the closer to lv20 you get. So, you get a headstart and turn 24 hours into, say, 20. And, of course, that's time that the level 20 character power-leveling you isn't playing maps designed for their level so they're missing out on XP and drops the whole while. If they've got nothing better to do, they could, but it's not going to be an overwhelming advantage.

What's more insidious and problematic though is what I'll dub "power-shopping". Remember that there's no level requirement on armor. There's no level restriction on buying skills. What a lv20 character can do is to take that lv1 character and escort them to the areas where they can buy better armor and better skills, maybe even twink them with the gold and crafting items to buy things, then they can go back to the earlier missions and clean up by themselves. You don't even have to be alive to zone. I know that I've taken several people through EAs and the like by just taking a runner. The party got wiped, but once I made it to the next portal everyone was back alive, and if that portal was a mission or a town or outpost, well, they could travel back to it whenever they liked. Because there are no more charms, no more rings, and no more way to trade skills anymore, that's the best way to get someone the skills or equipment they might want.

Let's say you're in a guild and you've got a match scheduled with a rival that night. For whatever reason one of your mainstays on your team has to bow out, they've got a hot date or somethign, but fortunately you've got a new recruit who's just bought GW a few days ago and has been trudging along trying to get to lv20 to get in some PvP. That recruit can just start up a PvP character and join your team so you're not a man down. With skill rings and such you could have just given them whatever skills they needed and then traded them the weapons and such they would want to compete. Now, though, the only way to make sure that PvP character has the skills your team's build requires is to have that recruit's PvE character acquire them. That means that someone from your guild is either going to escort them to whereever they need to get to to have those skills and then front them the money to get them. Of course, you'd better hope they have a PvE character that's the right professions or you'll need to wait until they get throgh the tutorial. And you'd better hope they have enough skill points or they'll need a few levels quick. Either way, it's a lot more time and effort you'll need to go through to get someone up to speed for an established team. Because, of course, you can't trade skills between accounts just between characters on your account.

Like Saus and others have said.. what's the point? People have been known to make it to level 20 in one weekend. Saus' "power-shopping" might be more of a concern.

But, in the immediate sense, like Mumbly said, your plan wouldn't work for the next BWE anyways. You can't get the pvp-chars out of pvp areas -- which is the entire point. Breathe. Relax, and enjoy your GW life. If worse comes to worst, you can always ask nicely if anyone will be willing to help you and your friends to LA.

Btw, I think I know which game you and your friends came from. Forget it. There's just no reason to plvl. It's only a month before release -- make a few PvP characters while you still have the option to unlock all skills, run around tombs for a bit, and then after release, you'll have all the time in the world to get to LA.

Txie Saus for splitting the thread (I hate to go off topic)

First, let me state that I'm not a big fan of plvling. Specially not when the missions aren't that hard and getting lvl 20 will take a week. At the most.

I'm glad it's more clear to me now: the only benefits would be the powershopping (I love new words) and maybe a slight advantage. If I'm correct about the armor req (that are not here), a lvl 1 Ele can wear the ultimate Ele-armor available? That could be a problem, I hope someone can find a fix for that.

@Aria:
I'm from Conquer Online, a game where it takes you months to get a "decent" lvl. And even after playing for more then a year, you could still be OneHit.

*thinks*

Aria = Naia ?

* If yes, then waves happy at Naia *

Ha, yes. In theory, a lv1 character could wear the best possible armour available to their profession. But you have to get the armour crafted to fit you. You have to visit the crafter, with the money and the materials, and have them make it specifically for your character. Armour is customised, thus can't be traded. So you can't get a higher-level person to fetch the armour for you. The lv1 character would have to make it to, literally, the other side of the world to talk to the crafter in-person. Surviving the hordes of enemies around Kryta/Maguuma is far beyond the abilities of a lv1, even if guarded by a party of Ascended characters.

It's definitely true that a level 1 can get the armor if someone supplies that level 1 with the cartload of gold and crafting materials needed.

The one caveat is that the level 1 actually HAS to be at the location, since armor is precustomized for the person that supplies the gold and the materials. So, if you use Saus' method of dragging dead bodies across the continent, it's possible. However, if you weigh the advantages and disadvantages of hauling not only yourself, but also additional dead friends all the way to Ventari, well.. I definitely vouch that it's much easier to just help them through the missions the normal way.

But, the one thing that does remain is dragging said bodies to Yak's bend and using the crafter there. I don't know.. that still seems like an awful waste of time to me. Sure, you'll have better armor.. but you'll still be at.. what? level 6 or 7? Then you'll still have to go back and level.. or hope that some kind group will let you go with them from Yak's Bend onwards. No matter whether or not the armor is high, and whether or not you'll get an advantage, I still count that as time wasted.

The only other thing I see is people using that method to obtain level 20 armors, and then going into a lower level arena. But.. even for that.. does it really matter as much? Who wants to stay forever in a lower bracket arena (and that's impossible, also, since you get exp from pvp). To me, it just seems a whole lot of hassle for nothing.

Btw, for clarification, by "dragging bodies," I mean using the method that Saus mentioned; you run to the end of the mission, complete it, and everyone resurrects/completes the mission and end up in the next location. Same with explorable areas.

Just another .02.. I'm throwing out a lot of these..

Two things:

1) I've seen the best use of the running tactic where one player runs to the next area while the others looking for XP do their best to slaughter as many enemy as possible before the areas reset. It is sort of the best of both worlds, and becomes a contest of how many enemy are taken down before the runner reaches the next point.

2) A funny question; Henchies obviously share gold, but do they split the XP as well? So basically would soloing with henchies equal the same XP for you as if you were travelling with players of the same size group?

(Reposting here, since my post got eaten in the move)

Hi, I'm new to these forums. Since I'm in Australia and we have no preorders here as yet, I haven't been able to take part in a BWE, so I still have a lot of questions about the game. Bear with me :)

With the way the experience is divided, according to kills and assists, wouldn't this benefit certain character types over others? As an example:

A party with two warriors and a monk take on two monsters. Warrior A kills monster A, Warrior B kills monster B. The monk keeps them both healed.

When experience is given out, Warrior A and the monk both get equal shares in the XP from monster A. Warrior B and the monk get equal shares in the XP from monster B. Essentially, the monk gains twice as much XP from this fight as each warrior.

Is this how it works? Seems a little bizarre. Am I missing something? Do melee fighters commonly switch targets during a fight to maximise their experience? It just seems like this would be an inherent disadvantage to playing a tank-type.

Thanks for any clarification in advance :)

Monk wont get exp, since he didn't attack monster.

You have to attack to get exp.

[QUOTE=Kadeton](Reposting here, since my post got eaten in the move)

Hi, I'm new to these forums. Since I'm in Australia and we have no preorders here as yet, I haven't been able to take part in a BWE, so I still have a lot of questions about the game. Bear with me

here is an aussie site that had info on getting preorders sent to down under

http://www.anzgw.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=358

But wasn't it stated that a supporting character that casts heals or buffs on a fighting character will 'chain' that XP, and thus get a share? Or in this case, two shares...

Kadeton, your post didn't get eaten. It happened after the split. I suppose I could have split and merged it but, meh. Anyhow...

In theory, that seems to be how it works. I believe I forget to mention that anyone attacked by a creature also seems to earn a share of XP, too, so you could just sit there and let things attack you, have someone else kill them, and have someone heal you, have someone BiP them, have someone heal the BiPer, and so on to form an XP chain. Also, the percentile increasing on shares seems to be some sort of exponential rather than a flat percentage such as in my previous example. If, say, you gained 50% more XP if you're one level less than a mob, then 75% at two, and then 87% at three, 93% at four, 96% at five, 98% at six, and so on and the inverse for being higher, the effect is that as you get too far above or below a monster's level the effect is that at some point higher level characters approach 0% and will get nothing and lower level characters approach 200% or double. In other words, there seems to be a cap on just how much XP you can gain from any given mob regardless of the size of the level differential. A lv1 beating up a lv20 isn't going to do them much more good than beating up a lv10, say - except in terms of drops.

But, as I said, the XP engine is little understood at this point. At least by the public. For all we know, I'm completely off-base. I have a hypothesis that fits the known facts but I'm not sure if it's accurate enough to cover everything. It could be something as simple as you get XP from monsters whenever they enter your radar range and you do something offensive - ie cast a skill or swing a weapon or take a blow - against a member of their "pack" or that group of monsters. XP chains seems to make more sense and avoid more abuses but I don't know.

In practice, if you're in a fight, you're getting XP from all the monsters in that fight, by hook or by crook. So, either the targeting from the mobs ensures that both Warrior A and B get a share from each monster or, more likely, the team is going to be focusing on one monster at a time so it's not much of an issue outside of the laboratory.

So, no, switching targets and such isn't much of issue. Most fights happen quickly and most monsters don't give that much XP while there are losts of monsters, so missing or gaining a share here and there isn't a big deal. If, indeed, it happens.

Ah, fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. I'm coming from WoW, and combat in GW seems much more involved and exciting.

Thanks for the quick responses, and for the heads-up on ANZGW. I just recieved an email from another Australian reseller offering GW pre-order packs, so hopefully I'll get to take part in the last BWE

Not at all! You can still get experience by healing and removing conditions as well as fighting.

Everyone is apparently overlooking the REAL answer here.

Those level 20 PvP characters are only allowed in PvP areas. You can't make a Lvl 20 PvP character and go through the missions. Only RPG characters can go through the missions.

So your answer is, no. It won't work because you can't actually do it.

BunnyMaster asked if it was possible for a Lvl1 character to wear the best armor in the game and Mumbly Fish said that this is impossible because the Lvl1 would have to buy the armor themselves. This situation is not impossible because of how partying works.

Lets say a Lvl 20 and a Lvl 1 start out at the beginning of a mission, the Lvl1 can not move while the Lvl 20 runs throught he mission and completes the quest. He doesn't get any XP but he still get the quest and can move on. This process can be repeated as needed until the Lvl1(which is now a Lvl 3 at least because of all the XP gained from completing quests) is standing in front of their final armor crafter. Once the Lvl 3 has their armor then can proceed to Power Level in the normal manner without having to worry too much about dying.

Also, IMO I believe that you dont have to attack or use any skill to gain experience from a fight, XP is simply given to all characters in a given radius of the fight. This is what I have seen...

Well does it count if you heal your pets and they attack?

Hehe, I actually said the exact same thing halfway through the thread.

And to Kiwi.. I would assume that you would. I'm also assuming that while you're healing, you're also using your wand/bow/long range weapon to attack. And since monks do that all the time, and still get experience.. I don't see why it wouldn't work with pets, also. Someone will have to confirm that though, sorry.

Well I dont know if healing animal over again works, because my animals always dies unless I go and attack the foe its attacking.

Well since this thread is split up into a couple of different topics which is great, I just want to clear up to those wondering about exp from my personal experience.

From what I have gathered and experienced, exp is a completely individual thing based on what level you are on relative to what level your opponent is on. For example, earlier in the BWE last weekend I had built my character up to lvl12 and needed some more gold for better pyromancer armor. So I naturally looked for easy kills for gold outside Ascalon City. So I got my gold and all but I learned that since my opponents levels were so much lower than mine (the flash gargoyles) I received 0 or minimal exp for each kill.

Back to my contestation of the "split exp" philosophy: In every mission I have gone on, whether I am attacking an enemy alone or attacking a single enemy with a group, as long as I had a part in that kill I got the same amount of experience whether I had assistance or not. I have yet to experience a single time where I have clearly "split" exp with my group after a kill.

I hope this clears things up for some of you ponderers out there.

I can vouch for Silent's second point about splitting experience. During the event, I got about a 3 hour headstart on Silent and was on level 3, almost level 4, before he was even able to sign on. I never noticed any hugh discrepencies until Sunday, when Silent reached level 12 just after I reached level 13. I would have times when I would go in and engage a creature, and would just in passing notice an experience value pop up from a kill I had nothing to do with, and saw that the value was significantly lower. I ended up doing Ignite Arrows on every attack after Silent and I discussed this, and I noticed a drastic increase in how much experience I was able to gain as I went through and completed missions with our parties. Silent had about 31 hours of play, and I was at about 36, yet he still ended only about 1 level below me after practically a 3 level head start.

Heeheehee. Hey! To add a bit more legitimacy to Mr. Orange's post I must say that I played just over 32 hours (big diff. i know...) and I got to level 13 from scratch. I'm not sure if Orange got to lvl 14 but I'm just clarifying my position.

Anyhow, with that as a pretense it makes me wonder: Is it fair to have a different class have the ability to level up so much faster or is that another application of Arena Net's "each class has its own advantages and disadvantages" philosophy?

P.S. This BWE I got a little too excited and entered the academy at lvl4. Is there a good minimum that people have found for level wise entering the academy? I know I should really start doing some more quests but I was so anxious to get to The Wilds that I kind of bypassed those due to our time constraint for this BWE.

level 6-7 is about right

do all the quests from everybody before finalizing your second profession as it is easy and quick exp

save any gold for later

alpha testers cannot overemphasize doing everything in presear askalon before the academy as a higher charater has a running start on the early missions

EDIT

this might be of interest

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...-10-id1195.php

Don't forget that a level 1 and level 20 will never be in the same place together. The Academy requires that you are level 3 to get in and there is almost no way (except a bug) that you could stay a level 20 in Pre-seared Ascalon. At that point you can gain experiance faster by just taking part in the mission while everyone keeps you alive since you will gain more experiance fighting than if you were to just die. This seems to me to be the fastest way to level. Then, you are still doing the missions, still leveling, and still learning how to use your character. I suspect that a good team of caster, healer, and archer could keep a low level Warrior alive well enough to make them scream up the levels, if the Warrior was doing some serious tanking and was helped to find good weapons (to do larger portions of damage).

This really doesn't seem like power leveling since this is what happens when a group that knows the way, looking for items, or skill points, brings along a unknown who gets the sidequests and new and exciting drops. I have been taken on these trips by characters that were there only trying to earn skill points.

Just my 2 cents, but why would you have any reason to power level? I know that I wil be better at playing my characters after I train them to be level 20 than any lvl 20 I could ever just build.

Well Power leveling is not as easy as you would think, especially if you are on your own. This BETA I was on Spring break and had 24k connection at times. Great responses. I will just add my few to it. I was gonna do just that - with my Level 15 W/Mo to hook up for PvP. Did not realize you could create PvP Customize players until Saturday...I was power leveling....


1. As a monk healing your companions, or as the Ranger buffing your pet, or the Necro bringing life to his minions, you all get EXP. If you heal your pet once - you get exp. If you heal your damage dealer once - you get exp.


2. (This is Obvious- sorry )To Power Level the key is to choose the areas you were in last.
a) Choose the Last mission you finished, which
should have been Sanctum Cay and replay it
again and again. 2 Players is enough, maybe 3 if
none of you have monk secondary.

b) you can go 2 missions down and still make
decent exp. Riverside is ok, but you need a
good group and its slow pace - making power
level SLOW - and then it of course it is no longer
Power Leveling.

3. The second key is to choose as few players as possible for more exp distribution. Also pick players at the same level as you. Maybe even higher level - that boost your exp more in your favor.


4. Most importantly - choose the right area. And the number 1 area to power level is:

1. STINGRAY BEACH,
2. Sanctum Cay
3. Riverside
4. Denravi

For the following reasons, The monsters doesn't hit hard, but they are many, and you can therefore reduced the number of players as I did to 1 (ME). The yield on average at Level 18 was 100 exp per kill. I stopped power leveling when I found out I could make a premade.

Anyway - my two cents.

If Ensign happens to read this could you please confirm this:

Were one of your charachters in the Tombs called Evil Ensign ? I met Evil Ensign in the Tombs, but never got close I was the healer that played in the suckiest groups of all time - BUT when I saw the name Evil Ensign I wished I had brought my W/Mo...I wanted so bad to run over there and do some trashin and bashin....he he...but all I had was my skimpy Monk.



Anyway