what we really need instead of experience.

I am starting this thread to disguss what might solve the money/market issue everyone keeps complaining about.

I personally think that they do need to adress this issue for a few reasons.
it is true that with a 55 build or a solo tank money is not hard to earn in fair amounts however to do this you need to spend alot of time and money in one character then spend countless amount of time farming to acheive the funds for building a truely awsome character. After all Why do we get so much experience? i have 130 unused skill points on my monk and 10-45 on the other 3.
I propose that each mission for the storyline have a lump sum to divide amoung the group henchie included to make it fair. This sum would only pay out once and grow according to the area and be just enough that the storyline alone would fund a character for the next set of armour and weapon set with a % for savings and salvaging materials. This as i state is only enough to fund a character for the area they are in.
As to what to do after the game. I propose to add lump sum amounts to all glint and SF quests. These missions would pay out repeatedly on each completion. Sums I propose for these are aproximatly 2-2.5k a person/per completion not including gold gained from mission or salvage items/rare drops.

Why do I say this and so low. All these missions i propose can't be done solo or in 2-3 man teams. 5-6 in minimal, 8 is the max averaged from. This is only logical sense we play a character in midevil times. They were mercenaries for hire. We are playing their job. What is 2-2.5k a person for 1 mission when it may take 2hrs to complete? I feel this is fair.

This proposal also eliminates all storyline missions or random quests from being exploited for gold. sense the gold gained from storyline missions only payout 1 time per character.

I have 4 lvl 20's and only 1 more suit of fissure armour to go. I only ask this to give people what the deserve after beating game and the help they need building another character.

/SIGNED SIGNED SIGNED SIGNED X 10000000000000

man i dont think its fair how newbs have it so hard to start. i mean it took me a month to buy my ASCALON ARMOR when i started the game on my monk. i also think that the level cap should be taken up to a higher level, because level 20 is soooo easily obtained. well, theres my 2 cents =D

oh yeah, did i mention?

/SIGNED

People spend money on looks, not on useful equipment. It costs a pittance to fully equip a character with Drok's armor and a collector/Drok's weapon.

Well, PvE characters have to show something for the time spent on them; go for another secondary or something.

You already can pay for the next set of armor and weapons from what you salvage and sell. Where that fails, collectors succeed.

They're not that hard, especially in SF's case. People already farm Titans and greens; add in an incentive to finish the whole quest and you've got farm-in-a-box.

i have all 5 secondaries on all 4 characters with skills and weapon sets to match. sorry nice try but again this is above and beyond all typical and custom designed builds these skill points are useless except for pvp unlock.

I am not saying money is hard to earn i am saying its hard to earn on a new character if its not funded by a already lvl 20 character.

also this is a thread to give idea how to fix or change things for the new players to have some benifit from what we enjoyed a yr ago. so please if you have nothing to offer in ideas please do not HI-JACK my thread.

I've been playing this game since release.I've beaten every mission, quest, and bonus available to my warrior. I've had over 4 characters reach Abadon's Mouth. The first Superior Rune drop I've ever had drop with my name was hacked a month ago, about a week after I got it.

Tell me where I can get my Strength based shield, 20/20 -5 Shield, Protection, Healing Prayers, and Inspiration Staff, 15% when hp > 50% axe, stance bows other than long bows, Elementalist 27 energy/-1 regen foci, or hexed / below 50% hp weapons from Collectors/Weaponsmiths. I'd be all up on it in a heartbeat.

There are no collectors for expensive runes, all weapons, or the mods that go with them. Salvaging/Selling everything I got, I still could not afford to put myself on equal footing with those who grinded/farmed. I thought this game wasn't about time spent?

I think it's important now more than ever that non-grinders should be put on equal footing with grinders, as Factions will incorporate more competitive play into PvE.

"You'll prove your worth with every battleas skill, not hours played, decides your fate", remember?



PvE wise, someone who puts more time into their character will almost always be at an advantage than those who don't.

very true experience is knowledge and knowledge is power. their are no rune collectors their are no mod collectors thus there is no godly stat character without gold. before aoe i made 100k an hr!!!!! i have done all their is to do with lil exception.

If you think people make enough money just following the story line then i suggest you start a new character do not fund it at all and then tell me you didn't struggle greatly to complete the game.

During the aoe petition anet said no monster would be stupid enough to stand and get hit from blind dmg... Well no person would be stupid enough to work for free. The drops from bosses are strictly spoils of war.

Every rpg has gold for reward here it seems everythings reward is in the pvp benifit.

Again i will say this but i doubt you'll listen. this proposed change is a 1 time thing in story line and an insentive to do glint quests with at least a real reward and pay.

If you have all those leftover skill points then go buy some skills. Set some challenges for yourself other than just completing the game. Go unlock a whole slew of skills. Besides, if you do that and have an empty slot open you can try to join a PvP guild. With any luck this guild might make it to Halls. Halls wins = Chest = nice items.

Nogold = No use for skill points.

well.. you sure play a lot. Having 3 full set of Fissure armor... damn....

What you said is good... don't think it is needed. Anet can reduce the price on the armor, which would give the same effect.

But I do think there is a problem in the ever gapping breach between the wealth own by the continues playing character (such as you) to that of someone new to the game. And don't think there are any easy solution to solve that.

One thing I think before is to come up with GW: Gold edition.. which would indude a Gold Trail quest that would earn the new player (with the new account) some good sum of gold to get them on a better footing. And of couse, A.net would be the one with more benefit to it if it can up their sell bit more. (almost A.net's way of selling gold to new player)

I don't think this is necessary. Never ran out of money as a low level because I always used collector's. I knew there would be better armor.

But others had an advantage because they were willing to spend more time onbetter armor, no?

So what seperates that from the typical MMORPG that Guild Wars claims not to be?

The economy is broken, badly. The rich stay richer and continue to exploit the system really. There is good and bad sides to a lot of arguments on this topic.
I've heard someone (sorry, can't recall whom, but it was another thread) say that if everyone were rich, then we would see ectos selling for 100k, or there abouts.
The only real way of creating the system that was advertised "it's not about time played, it's about skill" is for Anet to somehow put a cap on the amount of money that can be traded at once, or create clone items of everything out there (even green items) via collectors.
Before I get my head bit off on that comment, consider the new people just starting out. There's no way they will ever be able to get some of the stuff they are wanting. Key word there is "wanting".
While it's true, you can't get everything you want, unless they play almost non-stop to play catch up, they will stay broke and have to continue to feed thier money to the already rich(er) people.
Where did I get this from? A friend of mine just started to play. A month later, he finishes the story line. Still had Droks armor and no green items. Cause he wasn't playing a FotM build, he found it hard to get into a tombs group. After a week or so of constantly trying to get the staff he wanted (30 hours or so), he quit. He didn't have the money to buy the item, nor could he get the drop. He didn't want the collectors like items as it didn't have the health mod he wanted. This guy is pretty easy going too, so for him to quit, he really got tired of it.

/signed and agreed whole heartily for this fabulous suggestion

I was kinda dissapointed about the fact that when I left pre-searing, there were no more quests that gives gold reward.

/signed for all missions and quests to have gold reward

/signed

I'm an average gamer. I'm a part of a guild; and I don't grind even though I could (I have a perfect 55monk and w/mo)

My "problem":

1. I love to PLAY the game, i.e. do quests, FOW runs with gulidies, and participate in PVP etc. I don't have the time to do that AND farm. So I choose to play; hence my 55monk and w/mo spend more time playing and less time farming.

2. I find farming boring. The times I do have a spare hour or so to hydra farm, I end up leveling a new char (and hence spending more money ). Again, I love to play the game and I hate farming (even though I'm capable of doing so).

Having quests that give gold rewards will certainly take the pressure off of. I can play/enjoy the game and still save up for that greenie/armor piece. Plus it would give me more incentive to do those quests that only give a mere 500xp.

This is my first MMO and I find it very accessible and fun (I wouldn't be playing it otherwise). I'm levling my 4th character (on my second guild wars account, I love the game THIS much), and I find myself only doing skill quests. Now, if the non-skill quests gave a few plat in addition to the 500xp, I would definitely do them too...

Anyway, I could farm... but I seriously lack the time to do that... It would be fine if I had spare hours; but I'd much rather spend what little free time I have goofing off and actually playing the game

To me GW is about goofing off with guildies, socializing and gaming. Not runnig around solo in the desert hitting the same buttons over and over... Now, some ppl enjoy doing just that; but for me the novelty wore off very quickly. I'm just not THAT kind of gamer, that’s all.

EDIT: I would like to note, that while it would definitly be "easier" to have a lvl 20 fund ur new characters; I Found that only the case because during my earlier days I actually salvaged raw materials and hence had a nice stash of materials for armor: the actual gold I used for the armor came from the character I was playing. It definitly is a slower process, saving up your gold from scratch, but its not "Crippling".

I actually preffer "isolating" each character this way, as it gives me that feeling that I'm accomplishing something. Maybe I'm just a masochist but using my level 20's reserve kinda feels like I'm getting a free meal; and takes away from my level 20's "victo's bulwark fund" y'know what I mean?

/SIGNED

http://www.answers.com/topic/inflation
http://www.friesian.com/money.htm
Giving a bunch of gold to everyone will make it slightly easier to get Droknar's armor and skills, which weren't that hard to begin with, but say goodbye to any hope of getting Strength-based shields or any other item not obtainable normally. Remember how the prices were before greens were introduced? (Here's an example of what one half-decent shield was going for. Compare that to one of the greens now.) Tons of farming was going on, but little was available in the form of perfect items.

A far easier solution would be to increase the amount of collector and green items. Runes aren't generally a problem except for Superior Vigor and Absorption, and those aren't very critical. Most runes, sub-"perfect" weapons, and sub-"perfect" mods are insanely cheap compared to the prices of yesteryear.

well i have been around sense before green farming. For 1 i dont consider 90% of the greens to be perfect, more like junk. For 2 it wasn't til after the greens came about that ecto went to 21k at trader. Their has been countless month long requests for a mod trader to stop the ebay botters from jacking the market prices up.
Great point the rich stay rich and get richer while new players struggle and theonly ones to defend them haven't built a character in months and if they did they funded it.
I will say this again sense the rich who defend anets think that we are greedy and complaining. I AM RICH aproximatly 6.5 mil plat in weapons, armour, materials etc. this doesn't include my cash!!
I have been around as long as any who think gold rewards are not needed.
I have almost every skill and pushed way beyond what you even think i might have as far as builds or getting a skill and working it into a build. My challenge is long sense over.
My challenge now is trying to knock old player off their high horse so they realize the game has changed for new players especially.
aside from the few staff who put this idea down i have had 3 other threads on this topic where it got shut down. But with a 99% agreeance on gold rewards need to be added.
as far as the runes sup abs eh ok maybe its not the greatest but guess what if ya want a godly tank ya need a 30hp grip and a superior vigor and an hp sheild ...why??? For hp balance due to superior runes.
this is a role playing game. we play their role in the environment. we should get paid sense in essense we are mercinaries.
anyone dis agreeing is either rich from long before the patches or a pvp player.

So... I still don't see where you say that adding in gold arbitrarily won't cause inflation, and cause prices on anything not easy to obtain - i.e. armor and collector items/greens - to insanely increase. There are other ways to solve the "perfect items" dilemma, but more gold isn't the key.

adding gold to storline missions Will greatly help true character building.
Adding gold to only the most elite of quest would make little difference.
This would also greatly tone down ebay sense it will be more steady an income.
easy to argue any point. majority side for a gold increase i propose a slight increase. I dont want it to get out of hand either. Thus the pay out stipulations.
What ever happened to majority rule or the customer is always right?

I would love it if they gave out more money for finishing quests and missions and less for random drops. No inflation, keep it zero-sum.

To me it would be more fun and more realistic if questing paid better per time spent than farming did. Questing at least ought to pay as well, or even half as well as farming does.

gold per lvl or exp point bad idea. making gold a reward makes the game more realistic. and adding one time payout makes building a character much less time consuming, eliminates funding thru farming as well as power lvling.

Why don't we just make the armor NPC's give you what you want for free? That'd eliminate funding through farming.

Also, if you think that a +30hp mod is so significantly superior to a +27hp mod... you're an idiot.

i'm saying its about balance.

/signed, for two reasons:

1. it gets more money to the peope who need it most, the new players pushing through missions for the first time.

2. it gives veteran players a reason to go back to old missions other than just helping out guildmates and friends, increasing the number of skilled players in mission.

But I will also play Devil's Advocate here too. A big concern to this trend might be a farming mentality creeping into missions. People start wanting specific groups to go in with them, and farm builds will surface as a result. If Warcamp Elitism creeps into The Dragon's Lair, how will Rangers cap their Elites? or Mesmers? We already see that in places like THK, where 1 group build has become the standard for completeing the mission, and anyone either not of those proffessions or not playing those builds gets left out of the loop.

So it should stay a 1 time payout, like the 1000 exp for mission and bonus.

Piss poor anology. Seriously.

Your logic is flawed. There is a differance between a +30 mod and a +27 mod; it means people who grind more have a distinct advantage over those who don't, exactly what the game claims not be.

You'll prove your worth with battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate.

What then, makes this differant than an MMORPG, such as Final Fantasy XI where PvErs who grind more have an advantage over casual players?

i honstly like the idea, because i really am dirt poor, but i have never ever had a problem with money. i got into a guild after my n/w already had passed LA, i've never ever had to beg or run or farm for money. all my money has come from drops and quests. i PvP alot, so its not so big of a problem for me, but if need money, say for a rune i want to buff my necro with, then i can to UW. TOPK. FoW. farming groups arent the only ones that get good drops. its not like Anet scans ever group heading into FoW and says "this is a farming group, lets get the ecto drops ready." the money you get from quests and drops while questing or doing missions are plenty to get your character to droks. the armor doesn't require too much at all, if you dont overspend on runes, and only buy new armor when you need it. i bought 2 weaps, 3-4 sets of armor and that was it. the remainder gave me plenty for droks armor. from then on out, you do have topk, uw, and FoW to supply you. good idea, but it doesnt take that long to run a character through pre-sear and the first 4 missions. people could easil make a killing, even further upsetting the enconomy. sorry, but my signed command will have to wait...

So make the gold appropriate for the mission? You wouldn't get 5k for the Ascalon missions; You don't need that much. Make it so that running throughthe first few missions will only be worthwhile to those who want get the armor and runses and weapons appropriate for their area.

yes there is a +3 difference and considering all the variables how much real difference will that make?

how about +30 and +28/29? BIG WHOOPING DIF

for the MMORPG comparison you grind twice as many levels and get the uber item of one hit kill smack and the person with half the levels has NO CHANCE WHAT-SO-EVER of beating you.

level 20 smacking a level 3 grawl for comparison NO CHANCE AT ALL

a level 20 with 1000+ hours and your freakin perfect +30 can be beaten by a better player with collectors junk and 100 hours or less so yes it is skill more than hours grinded that can win

adding more moeny into the economy jsut makes everything more expensive, its already easy enough to get good weapons either from greens or from collecters. Plus it gives something to work towards. And the quote about skill>time spent is very much true. But the only place it really matters is in pvp, and skill still trumps the amount of time you played, but thats not saying someone who playes a lot every day wont finally get good, just its a lot more skill and tactic based.

i agree alot of early missions could be farmed thus the one time payout per character rule. Glint quest and SF being the only missions giving gold and set to an average of 2-2.5kper person on a 90min-2hr mission. the money amount is quite small but enough to buffer alot of people so they don't need to over farm with a 55 and still have to play in groups the way anet wants to gain the benefit.

if you introduced this then someone will get a new char, get him run and power levelled, get a few skills and do all the missions solo, therefore making more money. He can then delete that char and do it again.

/signed...sorta

They gota increase the reward for bonus, I mean 1000 exp? WTF!

See why he is dirt poor and were rich? (Sorry for the double post, but it was just a fact I HAD to point out.

I think some of you are missing the key points.

Droks armor is stats wise the best armor in GW...at 1.5k for crafting plus materials, its pretty cheap at the end of the game (when your suppose to get it)...the collectors armor in the deserts is perfectly fine to beat accension and dragons lair. Now, you all talk about starting a new toon and see how hard it is to not have money, but remember....if you play the game right, you will have plenty of money, i first made a N/W toon and did everything expected of me. I never got a run, faught my way through each mission and quest to obtain the cities in their persective order. I didnt skip anything, i was already a LvL 20 in Henge (all quests, and all missions with bonus). I had a full set of collectors armor in augry rock, got accended, did dragons lair. Went back to do my +30 attribute pts and change my sec prof to monk. I had droks armor by this time with the collectors blood staff with +57 health. That was it, he was maxed out with equip and expirence, now just to do the fire island missions and i was done.

If you want to farm for better items you can, Remember, you arnt suppose to have Droks armor before dragons lair, you arnt supposed to be ran if its your first char (money wise i mean). And 15k armor is just for looks, thus grind it. I have 7 lvl 20s (2 accounts) 2 of them have FoW. (necro and warrior). My guild i recently made is a end-game guild, every single officer in the guild has 1 toon with FoW, and is Rank 3+ all non officers have 1 lvl20 and can HoH with a farm build (spike ranger). My guild is Fissure of Fame, we wanted a guild that stands out, all fow armor with rank...so we can go to PvE and look differnt. If your a LvL 20 and want Fow (or rank) then our guild is for you, im not recruting in this forum but its to show people do help.

I agree that the game is well balanced such that those who play through the missions and quests will be able to afford the armor they need as it becomes available, and can probably pick up a good crafter's weapon at Drok's too.

My issue is, now that I've "finished the game" I want to do more questing. I also want to be able to afford 15K armor. I am frustrated because it is so hard to find people to do Glint quests and SF quests. These quests don't have rewards that people want, and there are very few people like me who want to do the quest purely for the fun or challenge of it. And then when I'm done doing these quests (spending 75% of the time getting groups) I still can't afford 60K for armor so I have to farm too.

For those who are done with the main game, and want the extras (whether 15K armor, or a +30 mod rather than +28) why must farming be the only option?

well heres my point. the amount of gold now isn't what it was when we first played. Everything cost so much more. a slight gold reward depending on area to help people along the missions. ITs the glint and sf missions that could use the added bonus. I personally have ran several green runs with not one drop for myself and this seems to happen to one person in every group. this will at least buffer his time. Is an average of 1- 1.5k an hr to much to ask? I think for what time the average player puts in will let them play more comfortably in comparison of those of us who are avide gamers.
The only other solution to affording at least 15k armour and some good other then collectors weapons,.. is to build a solo monk and farm farm farm.
Honestly who wants to spend all that time doing that. I did it and it just gets boring after time.
If they want use to play more together then they need to make it a lil more rewarding.

Afford armor? Yes.

Afford weapons? Not the same weapons as others stat-wise (though there is no collector Strength based shield, no collector Protection, Healing Prayers, or Inspiration Staff, no collector 15% when hp > 50% axe, no collector stance bows, little variety to choose from for collector bowtypes, very few (collector) Faster Casting wands, collector 27 energy/-1 regen foci not existent for Elementalists, no hexed / below 50% hp weapons).

Afford weapon mods? Not likely just from playing through the missions.

Afford Runes? Superior Absorb and Vigor, not likely.



Fact: Those who grind have an advantage over those who do not,exactly what this game claims not to be.

if this is for PVP you have faction for a fast targeted unlock.

if it is for PVE a major at a tiny fraction will do fine.

if you find 9 hp is life or death in PVE just give it up already

It's not about it being life or death, it's about having a better balance between frinders and casual players.

The fact is grinders DO have an advantage over non-grinders.

I am argueing for this simply because Guild Wars falsly advertised that grinders and casual players, both PvE and PvP, would both be balanced.

Factions is coming soon, and more competitive play will be incorporated into PvE. Itwould be a HUGE screw up if they left the game the way it was and only leaver the best weapons/weapon mods/runes to grinders.

Grinding helps, but is not necessary. I don't grind a bit and I have all that I need and more so. I don't think this is a very big issuse for the most part, but I do sum what agree. The people who grind ARE going to do better than people who don't as far as money. They are also spending a lot more time on it probably too.

As for new characters working forever to get armors/weapons, welcome to the game. Its not gana flop into your lap unless your lucky.

Having the best and the strongest stuff helps, but it does NOT make the character. Player ability is just as important as equipment.

signed

i've had gw for about 10 months now i have yet to go past kryta or make more than 20 k. money for finish guests and missions would help me greatly.

Saider maul is right it would also be more realistic. who does anything free really ?