Why do ppl pick on 55 monks?

Ive seeen many people complaining that 55 monks are bad...as a 55 monk i dont see why they are so bad... u make money but it costs a lot to make one.. and with all the nerfs its making it harder to solo farm.

People generally don't like it when others exploit things that they got through "the hard way".

I personally don't like it either, but recognize it's part of the game and if Arenanet actually cared they would have devoted more resources to the task than one marginal AI update and a few more monsters in the Crystal Desert.

Ya lol, i mean there not that good, there are tanks that still solo, in which they dont nerf...they go for the monks

Probably because 55s are worthless for anything except some farming. Absolutely horrible to have one in a team, waste of a spot that could have been used by a real monk. Heck, a necro farts at one and it dies.

We don't like 55 monks because:

1. Too many are farming bots.
2. Too many masquerade as healers in the underworld, let you die, then loot your drops.

To many bad experiences in UW with 55 monks have coloured my opinion of them.

Besides, the 55 build is a solo, not a team build...I would never want one on my team.

I switch between being a regular monk and 55 monk. So far I've only used it for getting hold of e.g. frigid hearts for collector items more easily.

I'd say that many people pick on them because they're jealous.

The 55 monk has been the vehicle for many of the less pleasant activities that take place around GW- gold selling on eBay,overfarmed areas that lead to nerfage, etc. I don't have a problem with the 55 in general, but more with many of the people who use them in an industrial manner.

On a separate note, from a logical standpoint, it seems odd somehow that you can actually become more difficult to kill by lowering your hp. Anet could fix this by making the various % damage limiting spells (protective spirit) key off of your base health before runes, but I guess that they don't feel it is important enough. It would pretty much ruin those spells, I guess.

When the griffens outside Augury Rock got nerfed, the 55 monks came to dorknar's for some inane reason, since the trolls drop absolute crap. Anyways, they started buying up Berserker scrolls like all hell and now they've inflated the price of those scrolls which I use every day.

Thanks worthless 55 monks for taking a shit on my gameplay experience.

Becuase idiots pick up the build and take them into normal groups.

I think, as it is in real life, a few bad apples spoil everyone's perception. I have to admit, I have a hard time trusting 55's. Almost everytime I've had a bad experience (i.e. someone tries to scam me), it's been a 55 monk. I really don't think every 55 monk out there is a scammer, but when most of your bad experiences are due to one class, it can make you a little jaded.

I think everyone should have a 55 monk. It's an awsome resource for collecting some quick cash if need be and who's to say that you're not allowed to play a normal monk in a group. The arugment about bad apples....what ever, every class has them. I've run into my share of Monks/Warriors/Necros/Eles/Rangers that kill off entire groups for fun. Doesn't say much about yourself if you judge an entire class by the actions of a few.

people pick on us because we do this when we're bored

Because, other than the original few who came up with the idea, the use of a 55HP monk involves no creativity on the part of the user.

Simply write down a build, go buy stuff/skills, and your cookie-cutter machine is ready to start processing.

It involves no skill, no originality, none of the basic elements that makes GuildWars a great game. Instead, it's just practice and how fast you can hit the buttons. Visiting the same place. Over and over again.

invinciMonks can be pretty devastating if the opposing team doesn't know that he's an invinciMonk. they'll likely try to wail away at one for a while as the monk's teammate pick them off one by one.

It doesnt matter that someone else came up with the build. It was an awsome discovery on their part and they chose to share it with the community. The same thing can be said about thousands of other builds running around out there. All the Boon/Prot monks, Stance tank builds, 55 nec, 55 me, Iway, Split, Pressure, Wammo farm builds,Battery,Echo SS, MM just to name some off the top of my head. Just the fact that this one caught on so quickly and is effective doesnt make it bad. Besides it's not like any Dumbass can pick it up and use it effectively in some areas. I can't even count the amount of times I see 55 go into UW and get ripped to shit because they don't know how to play it.

I like to take Symbiosys into the UW for the health boost it gives everyone enchanted. Especially those little 55ers.. they needs an hp boost. Poor little guys.

It never seems to be enough though... they die anyhow...

Cookie-cutter builds and farming bots, thats why ~~~~

people hate on 55ers because of griefers like haggard and people like this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=132714

I suppose all the echo nukers, runner warrior, stance tank, minion masters, order necros, barrage pet group, etc etc. is not cookie cutter. I don't think wrecking people who use builds legitly without bot shouldn't not be punished just because of cheaters, especially considering how costly it is to even start a 55 monk.

I played thirsty the other day with my primary monk. I just needed to complete my last bonus. Another monk joined and would not tell me what kind of build they were using. (I wanted to know heal or protect so I wouldn't duplicate.)

I just went on the assumption that the person was not there at all and took my single monk boon/protect build. That other monk managed to die right after giving the Hero the crystal. I couldn't res them (Because hp too low) so we played the bonus with only one monk (me).

55 monks can't be counted on. Monks in general are harder to trust because of the unreliablilty of this sub-group in PvE missions.

damn, bringing a solo build in a team based game.. how smart...

human beings are herd animals. if one does something, the entire herd (in this case, the game community) will follow. about the best way to keep originality in this game is to not share your builds.

Well when I see a 55 monk saying he can solo scarabs thats what gets me mad, and people actually thinking they are invinci.. and most of the 55's around now are noobs that dont know what to do and they think the soul goal of them in UW is to deal damage rather than recieve it...

I've seen the same from other classes and you don't think other classes don't get posts like that in their forums?




It's griefing and every class has them may it be monk->war->Nec etc...


@Moriz Whats wrong with using what works? It's the same as using a certain training routine in RL. It's proven effective so people use it. Why would you want to use something thats less effective?

I resent that and am very offended at the accusation. The 55hp build is just like any other build, has its strengths and its weaknesses, and takes a considerable ammount of skill to do (well.) In a way, the 55hp build is the very essense of how great Guild Wars is, in the sense that you start off with planning , knowing what you're going to be fighting, and then practice to perfect its use. It's no different than planning any other build. True the 55hp build isn't meant for team play (with the exception of very high-level experiemental builds which most couldn't even begin to think about,) but it certainly has its uses.

Consider the average monk. He has a few skills (orison, word, other, breeze) that he constantly spams on party members with low health until he runs out of energy. He then pings his energy hoping the battery of the party will help him out, so he can continue mashing buttons. The team then has to wait for him to regain energy after each group... How is that skill? The 55hp build combines survivability, energy management, and high damage (depending on the specific setup) to efficiently traverse otherwise very difficult and dangerous areas. Just because a lot of 55hp monks just went outside augury and farmed griffons over and over does not mean that's all you can do with the build. I have an entire academy dedicated to the many uses of the 55hp concept. If I so chose, I wouldn't doubt I'd be able to complete almost the entire game using 1-3 people, with a 55hp tank. I've done it for the entire underworld (yes, all the quests too) why wouldn't it work for the rest of the game?

I admit that a large majority of 55hp monks don't possess much skill or knowledge of the theory behind the build they use, and have simply copied the build off a forum for their own money-making ventures. Why not be mad at them? Don't pass off an entire concept just because it's gotten popular. Why do you think it got popular in the first place? BECAUSE IT'S GENIUS. Go ahead, try to do the things I've done with a 55hp build using some other "original and creative" build.

People use builds that work, and tweak them to make them better, that's the whole idea behind Guild Wars. Look at PvP, you think the people who run R.Spike, or Obsidian spike, or blood spike, or VIMway, or IWAY, or pressure, or any of the other well-thoughtout builds actually created them? NEWS FLASH: Guild Wars is as creative as you make it. If you want to run a cookie-cutter build without any thought go ahead, but you'll never run it well. When I first started using my 55hp monk I experimented with countless other ways, different weapons/attributes/skills, and finally ended up with something I believe to be the most efficient way to do several different things (different builds for different areas obviously.) That took just as much if not more creativity than planning a PvP strategy. Since you're talking about skill, how much skill does it actually take to go through this game in full teams? ALMOST NONE AT ALL. If you're saying that because I can do something with 1-3 people that most can't even do with 8, I lack originality, skill, and creativity, fine, think that way. But don't sit here and flame us for it. I'll just chalk it up to jealousy.

[/rant]

My only problem is with 55 monks that join a group and then let them all die off... would be nice to have a warning...

As others have said a lot of people running these builds currently are new players and lack any real knowledge of what they are doing... best experience yet was some 55 monk asking my why I killed him so fast in PvP (for those that play the game - I was using my Me/N - 'nough said right).

Sno - you are very correct with what you said as well... for those that truly understand the 55 builds they are genius. Kind like my current Me/E build... loved when the group I was with all went down but me and everyone was ready to pack in the mission... I finished it to everyone's shock (had already used my res sig on the monk)... unique builds are fun. Some are very limited, some are more broad.

true, but the majority of those people are either 55ers or whammos. there's a reason why stereotypes exist.

however, let me clarify my stance on the issue.

i really have nothing against 55ers. there are some very skilled ones out there, like sno for example. but the fact is that a majority of them are simply bandwagoners that caught on to a trend. they read the build somewhere, saw how easy it was to make money with it, and copied it with no more thought. introduce a little bit of change or challenge for them, and they'll flock to the boards whining about anet nerfs this and anet nerfs that. they wouldn't even dream of maybe spending an ounce of energy thinking about what the 55 build really means and how they can tweak their builds accordingly. instead, they'll wait until someone else figures something out and copy that.

it's the bandwagoners who put no thought into it that give it a bad stereotype.

People get upset at 55 monks for a variety of reasons, but the main two involve anet nerfing the popular areas that 55 monks go to, and the 55 monks 'ruining the economy'. The fact of the matter is though, 55 monks are simply taking the majority of the blame for people abusing farming (as if no one has ever seen lone warriors, necros, eles, mesmers, and rangers running out of Augury rock to go griffin farming) as they're so damned good at it (and popular).

That made me laugh, there is a difference between standard cookie cutter and brain dead cookie cutter. Also why the hell did you put runner here? It takes a brain to run things like Lornars.

Your entire list is faulty, for one Barrage Pet Rangers (as much I may hate them) don't solo anything. It is a creative team build idea in a... wow gasp... team area. Order necros... now take actual timing to use no more hit button one, hit button two, repeat. So no. MM... tell me do you really believe that MM's are that easy to run? Sure you can summon things, but their is a difference between making an army and using it correctly. Echo Nukers... what about them? Again thats not really a solo build.

You seem to focus your defense of a build, that exploits multiplayer areas and a low HP to their own advantage, against builds that require, uh oh there's that word again, teams to actually work. So... ya.

As for 55's, I don't like them. Why? Most people who use them are idiots who can't even play other classes, now there are a good few who can play and play well. But a good majority are incapable of playing anyclass, especially monk.

Mainly Underworld when you're trying to get an actually team together to explore it. Join a group as a monk and it becomes a game of 20 questions.

Also a personal annoyance. Do you 55, know anyone that 55s, what's a 55, why don't you 55 it's better than warrior... endless annoying questions. It's not the best thing since sliced bread people. Some impressive things have been done with it, I just don't find it interesting in any form when someone does something new with it. And for some reason people to seem to think they're better than people because they have a 55er.

You could say that about most people who play Guild Wars. IWAY, OOB, the AI patch, HoD nerfs, the list goes on.

What about the solo warriors that farm prophets path? I have seen similar builds to what i used posted and have seen countless, groupless tanks going into PP. Every class has a cookie-cutter build for soloing that people use yet for some reason it is the 55 that gets the flak.

there's a fine line between "using what works" and "carbon copying everything". sad thing is, most online games with any significantly sized community will cross the line. human beings are fundamentally lazy. the same mentality that led to the death of diabloII pvp will probably cause the same for GW. this is really sad, since a game like GW possesses so much choices.

you want a sure indication that this is occurring? go into a TA arena and look at all the players on both sides (before they use anything). can you guess with reasonable accuracy on what they're using? if you can, then the line has been crossed. does every ranger/mes MUST use crippling shot+apply poison+blackout? no. does every mes/war MUST use IW+flurry? no. does every team that's got x# of rangers + a necro MUST be a order spiker group? no. does every ranger/monk be the annoying griefer than runs around all day? no. however, more often than not, they turn out to be exactly as predicted. sure, a quick update by anet will cause them to change, but they will all change into the same thing before long.

sorry about hijacking the thread, but i believe this is the root of the problem, and there's not all that much we can do to fix it.

Whoa there sno...I think you misinterpreted my post.

First off, I have NOTHING against 55HP monks that do EXACTLY what you refer to above. Taking a base build and customizing it for your situation and needs is EXACTLY what I refer to when, as I state above, makes this game great.

I apologize for offending you or anyone else that has customized the build to fit their needs, especially when it involves soloing areas for challenge sake (and not farming sake). I completely respect those that work with the build, especially the various versions of E/Mo, N/Mo, etc. that you see in the builds section of the forums. It's definitely a facet of the game that has taken on its own life.

The problem I have is with those that copy the build, go get all of the equipment that someone else told them to get, practice a few times and start farming like madmen. What skill is involved in that? As you admit above (and I would guess, although admittedly a generalization), MOST 55HP monks are exactly the same build. Since there is no aspect of teamwork involved for these carbon copies, what skill do they develop other than gold storage management?

So, that's why 55 monks are bad?

*laughs hard*

The list of cookie cutter builds people are using is endless:

- SS Necros
- Stance Warriors
- Echo Nukers
- Boon Prot Monks
- WoH monks
- B/P rangers
- Oath shot trappers
<add 20,000 builds of your choice here>

All these builds basically look the same regardless of who plays them, save for one or two skills people tend to customize.

I bet that 95% of all GW players regulary use builds they didn't invent. Does that make them evil? In areas such as UW, FoW, Tombs and SF, people don't only run cookie cutter builds, they run cookie cutter TEAMS (which is why I rarely ever try to get into a group there with my Mesmer, since there is no cookie cutter build out there which involves one). They do the very same thing, the copy a build, practice until they can run it, and then play away. Funnily enough, if you are a 55 monk, that's evil...

the more annoying thing about cookie-cutter builds is when you think up a build yourself, and find its been done the exact same way countless other times, and has even acheieved 'oh no he uses <x> build' status

In some parts of FoW (not mesmers), they are very very useful because they can hold the aggro of abyssals, beasts, warriors, barrage rangers and SoJ them at the same time. Used one in a pug where we had one healer and on the part where you have to defend the Forgemaster they aggroed 3 groups at a time and held them there/killed them. Only bad thing is when they die sometimes they will res with 0 health...but that only happened on the Seeds of Corruption quest. There are probably a lot more places where they can be used effectively though. I'd say not worthless at all except in cases where they can get enchant stripped, but you could just have a monk bring Spellbreaker and you'd be fine...

It actually does involve skill. You have to learn to time your skills, manage your energy, and use bonnetti's defense to cover your SoJ so you don't get interrupted. It takes a while to master it.

Possibly because the 55 has spread to the professions with 4 pips of regen.

Any profession can do this, and Healing Seed on a warrior is basically god mode.

It's by far the most efficient farming build. What other profession was able to farm the underworld that easy until the drops got nerfed beyond belief?
Also it's ANet nerfing the drops all over the game everytime when massive farming accurs. And every time the majority of the farmers where 55ers.
Also it's the bot profession. If you see bots, they are invincis.

That leaves the question to all non-invinci-farmers or ordinary players: Why does ANet nerf the crap out of guildwars pve-rewards instead of nerfing the "root" of the problem? Esspecially the Eles will complain, as their farming abilities already got hit with the nerfstick.

Sure, some areas can be farmed by other professions, too. But be honest, the by far most dominant farmer is the monk.