Idylls End.

Hi everyone I am a first time poster, long time lurker. I have decided to register because I have an question that has been boggled my mind for a long time, and I think this seems like the place where the most mature and open minded goodfolk are


Im a guy who has followed Guild Wars closely since 2004. In my time I have played more than my fair share of MMORPGs and Online RPGs, but the moment I saw Jeff Strain at e3 2004 talking about the concepts about this game, I was hooked from the get go.
Im a gamer who has had a blast and still have a blast with Guild Wars. I buy allot of games, got a good computer and play on consoles too. I consider myself an all around geek with to much time and money for games on my hands. Simply can't wait for GW: Factions.
However, my question is probably strange. Having observed and trying to inform people on other messege boards and people I know in real life, about Guild Wars, I have come to find that many people seriously have something against Guild Wars.
I mean, not the typical flaming, but more something like being called a little kid who play a "discount WoW" as I have been told GW is.
I know I should care next to nothing about the ignorance of others, and just feel sorry for them, but, I can't help but feel that the proper messege has not gotten across.
I know that games like Diablo 2 and World of Warcraft are more popular right now than Guild Wars, due to very established fan bases, Diablo for ten years, and Warcraft for 12 and the fact that Blizzard has a hugh fanbase.

Another thing is most likely also that just because something is popular, it does not mean it's the best thing ever right?
What concerns me is the rate at GWs lifespan. I know that Guild Wars still has allot of time left, but I cannot help but wonder - The day ArenaNet decides that they won't do more expansions and will be unable to make a profit, they will close down the servers. Of course, that might not be for the next 4-5 years or more, but it still concerns me as a fan.
Also because(I think) that there has never been a game like Guild Wars before. There has never been a game that is doing what this game is doing I think, so it makes things unpredictable and edgy.
With an MMORPG, I think the developers will keep them along as much as they can because they can get a profit. Games like Ultima Online from 1997 just recently had an expansion released and they still have people playing it, which is most likely the reason why its still running.

I like these games because I can create a persistent character. I can make this character cool/ugly/cute/funny, give him/her a name and choose his/hers proffesion and mix skills and get new equipment and make friends and add them to my friends list, and when I log off, and come back two days later, all my stuff and my character is right there where I left him.
When you play an online First Person Shooter, you are just another skin in a map of people where everyone just shoots each other.
I guess the character creation part is something I really love about GW, and it's a thing I love about the new chapters and updates, that they add much more stuff and different looks to the game.
So... I like the idea, of playing Guild Wars. and keep it by my side and log in from time to time, and my lvl 20 is still there, and I can still jump in 3-4 years from now and have fun fast and easy, without the hugh time requirements of so many MMORPGs, and with the no fee, it makes me feel more like a free bird who can take it easy and just feeling more comfortable, as I have control of the content I want to buy and what not to.
I guess there is no point in telling this, since you guys and gals, probably already know, but my point is just that, it concerns me that my character will suddenly dissapears the day, Anet decides not to release more chapters.

Another thing, im affraid of decline in popularity. If Factions has as much content as GW core, it will mean that people will be much more spread and im concerned.
I heard on another board, that it was going horrible in most places in Asia, like Japan, Taiwan and South Korea with Guild Wars almost having no players, except for a few PvEers. My experience or knowledge from past MMOGs has always been that the more expansion packs you add, the more consumer you kill. I remember that I never got into Everquest because when I actually wanted to try it, it had over 10 expansion packs, which I thought was insane. Im wondering if Factions will add more people? Will it steal people from guild wars 1? And what about chapter 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 and so on?
I have a cousin who plays WoW, who I have tried to convince to give GW a chance, but he says hes just gotten to "used" to WoWs mechanics and gameplay. He dismissed it for the fact that there where no uber items, elves/orcs and that you couldnt jump. Of course I tried to tell him that other games had their own strengths and weaknesses, and even offered to buy the game for him to free, but he just said no, and mumbled something about waiting for some other games he said would "100% kill Guild Wars" . I think he mentioned online modes in games like a new Neverwinter Nights and Hellgate Lodon. My cousin is a good and nice guy, but he is not very into gaming, so it's not that I take his opinion very seriously, but it does concern me in the context of mainstream gamers.

Im a fan of Guild Wars... It's one of my favorite games ever, and I truly wish it was Guild Wars that had 5 million players, and not WoW or Lineage, but what can you do? I think it's weird that GW has not developed many of it's own niche things like Leroy Jenkins did in WoW. I heard that in Planetside, the players managed to increase the population allot, because of some fan made "informative" movies, that marked the game much better than it's developer SOE, had done. I think it would be cool if something happened in Guild Wars.
Because allot of people I talk to about the game, who have owned it and just gave up, never made it past pre searing or found it very hard, or didn't liked the way the combat system worked or had bad experiences with the community in towns.
I don't know though. It seems strange to me that im sitting here and worrying about such things, when it really should be NCsoft and ArenaNet, and what is probably everymore strange is just that im worrying about stuff that won't happen for a long time(hopefully).
I really just am concerned that as, the game will become twice as big with Factions, there will be a much more scattered community, and im affraid that people won't be attracted to the concepts in the long run.
I don't know how many times I have heard people everywhere "bash" GW because it only has 20 levels or no rare equipment to keep people playing.


Maybe it sounds melodramatic. Oh well. I hope I didn't bored you too much if you choose to read this. And sorry for my english, im from Denmark.


-Lawnmower

That was a long...long...long...read...

lol, I dont think GW will be going down anytime soon, this game is from the people who made starcraft...which is still around and has no monthly fees...

Perhaps they will just make a GW2 after a while.

I never would have guessed. I'm 100% serious, too. You should see americans post on these forums sometimes, with all the horrid english. If english isn't your native language, thank you SO much for taking the time to write your post appropriately. I, and many others I'm sure, REALLY appreciate it.


As to the context of your post... I think you're a bit melodramatic. I mean, ArenaNet is FULL of talent. This is very apparent in just about every aspect of their product. Not only that, but ArenaNet was founded by, and staffs quite a few, ex-Blizzard employees. The same Blizzard that made Diablo II, the Warcraft franchise, and the immortal Starcraft franchise. Have those died out? I mean, Blizzard has all but ABANDONED Starcraft, yet it's still immensely popular. It's been 9 years since it came out, if I recall, and it's still alive and kicking.

Now, I'm not trying to say that simply because some of ANet once worked for Blizzard that Guild Wars is immune to any decline of interest or diminished popularity. I will say that... these same guys that bring us Guild Wars, were responsible for, even if only in part, all those other games. So I have faith in them, and trust them to handle Guild Wars above any of our expectations.

As for the servers... well... ANet's staff are ALSO responsible for Battle.net. Which will be around... probably forever. Yes, I'm aware the technology is different, because of the differences in information being stored and transferred, but again... I have no reason NOT to trust that they know what they're doing, and will continue to excel at it.

In short, I wouldn't worry about your friends not liking Guild Wars. I absolutely cannot stand war simulation videogames (whether it's an FPS or an RTS or whatever), but they don't die off simply because I don't play.


edit: btw, Welcome to posting on the forums!

tl;dr but I love guild wars too :*, it'd be cool to have a huge fanbase for guild wars... it's growing, slightly. It's ranking prety high on xfire.com, yay!

the concept that arenanet has adopted. the standalone expansion, is BRILIANT... Not only does it add new content and new people the the game every 6 months, but allows for expansion to areas that for new people to the game have not been before.

As to the other countries showing nearly empty servers. well part of that is that the populations in many of those countries have been waiting for GW ch 2 to come back, and another part is playing in INTERNATIONAL districts now, because of the greater populations.

I will agree that the original servers as they stand today will show a small population. And I for one am looking forward to that. Less district will be needed and as such the people that are playing will be more likely to be in dist 1 or international... Without the Spam districts that exist today.

Basically I see it as a good thing... with each expansion the original will end up cheaper on the store shelves, which will grab even more people eventually. Heck I know some games I missed in the past that I picked up on a whim from a $9.99 shelf... don't you??? And just think, if say 2 years down the line GW chapter 1 is that cheap, it allows for another unique gaming experience for newcomers to MMOs...

It will also mean that players of chapter 3 let say, that love the game AS chapter 3... If they decide as we are now that they want to go back and play the history chapters, it will be there for them... so I honestly feel there will always be people playing to some extent...

But the The last thing that Arenanet Really thought ahead with was henchmen... lets face it, most of us have used them at one time or another. and the game is basically playable with henchies all the way through the story line if it is absolutely the only choice left to you... Sure it takes longer, but its possible...

Basically in the future I see Tyria either getting new content to the areas to invigorate the area as populations drop... IE adding chapters back on the original game area, integrating populations in some way... Either with other races, or new regions, like say.. hum IDK ORR!!!

Or reducing Districts to 1 Or Jsut International for all regions on some regions, so that anyone playing has the ability to find SOMEONE to play with...

The last option I and quite frankly expecting is somewhere around chapter 3 or 4 a value pack that will include all chapters in one package for a special price... So that too will ensure new people will always be available to play.

My one and only concern is somewhere in the time of chapter 10... Think about how big a folder this is going to be on your HD... If you have all 10 chapters. lol I'm gonna need a bigger HD just for GW. lol

geez, thread of long long posts
/gofans

In reply to Lawnmower post #1:

You're worried that Chapter 2 for Guild Wars will spread the community thin as will every other Chaper thereafter. Don't be worried. The Chapters for Guild Wars are not expansions to Guild Wars Chapter 1; they are completely separate games. Unlike the expansions to Everquest or any other MMORPG, the following Guild Wars Chapters are separate games unto themselves. This means, no one will ever have to own the original game in order to play.

You said in your first post that you were intimidated by Everquest because you picked up the game in the store and realized it already had 10 expansions. Well, that won't happen to anyone when they pick up a Guild Wars Chapter, because each chapter is it's own game.

WoW is totally different from GW. Like comparing apples with bananas. GW is more focussed towards competitive play. The numbers of GW players are still rising, or so we've been told.

Wouldn't be to worried about closing of servers. They wouldn't develop Chapter 3 at this moment if they don't intend to keep the servers up for over a year at least. So you can see it coming. And you'll get your money's worth at least, so relax.

WoW is gross and terrible. If WoW had no monthly fee, and GW did, I'd still play GW. I see tons of people converting from WoW to Guild Wars all the time, and all the people that I've seen try to convert from GW to WoW, eventually end up converting back to GW. The longer GW is out there, the more people will start to see it and start to come to it instead. If anyone ever says you play "discount WoW" again, just say...well...don't say anything really. Just smile and nod your head. Let em think you know some big slab of info they don't. (which you do) It may just be enough to gradually convert them to GW :P

My head hurts from reading, skimming FTR. Guild Wars has a while if it does tend to go down. Hitting the one million mark and growing doubt it will go down hill soon.

Yeah the biggest problem I've had with trying to sell GW to WoW players has to do with numbers.

"Oh Only 8 Skills? In WoW I have five gazillion on my bar."

"Oh only level 20? In WoW I can grind all the way to 60."

"Oh only 8v8? We have these things called Battlegrounds where you can do 20v20."

I've played both and still think GW is the superior game, but this is the logic most WoW players (and most Blizzard Gamers, now that I think of it) hide behind to somehow "prove" that they have the better game.

^^^^QFT

they don't understand that GW is a game like counterstrike, where it's an equal battle, 4vs4 etc., where only your skill and some luck counts...

in WoW only your hours played counts...get the best gear, best weapons, best guild etc.

*oops don't make this a gw vs wow topic*

to OP: i think when A.net stops, they're gonna publish their server software so that anyone can host a gw server...

My only concern about continuing expansions is that they will be too aggressive with them. I think I read something along the line of every six months. I would prefer once a year with a new challenge area added at the midway point.

There will come a time when things are just coming too fast and people will either feel too rushed to go out and buy the next chapter and not feel like they got a thorough feel for the current or previous ones. There are only so many archtypes you can do before it starts to get gimmicky.

I think those things may ultimately spell the downfall of the game. But I don't anticipate this happening for a while and hope that Anet sees beyond the bottom line and profit margin to keep the timing right.

Except 6 months after GW's release people were clamoring for more content since they were bored. Sure 6 months sounds rushed, but you don't have to buy it the day it comes out.

I would sort of agree that one expansion a year sounds more ideal. They should use that extra 6 months to really polish the game art, texture works and graphical upgrades... like some lens flares or more terrains, and less missing polys and texture stretches.

DING DING DING! We have a winner! Everyone that I have ever tried to get to play GW who plays WoW uses this argument.

Give GW a few more expansions and we'll see how many of those WoW players actually stick with WoW and don't end up trying GW.

I keep trying to get my WoW friends to try GW and hopefully I can get them to come for this preview event coming up. I have one friend whos really interested in the Assassin, and would buy just Factions, just to play the Assassin if its cool enough...

I see your points mates, but what I mean is that when Factions gets released, everyone will play in the new areas, and the old ones will have less players because they are all in factions.

And im concerned because, what if all these new cool things like more guild houses, alliances, taking over towns and auction houses all only apply to cantha? Then GW:Core will be looked down upon and left alone?



Yeah, I have tried to get people to try the factions event, but no one I have asked wants to try. The 24th is the day Elder Scrolls: Oblivion gets released, and many seems to want that one. Oh well
It would just be really cool if many millions of people played GW, since it does not have a fee. I think ArenaNet has showed so much "customer care and respect" That I simply feel like supporting the company more than any other I have come across. If they asked me to, I would probably be happy to donate paypal money to ArenaNet to help keeping the servers up.

I've actually had sucess in brining in WoW players to GW.....

Point out that by the time they have only ONE level 60 character, you made 4 lvl 20's, unlocked over half the game at least, and now you make ANY character you want instantly.

Also ask what they plan to do with their level 60 a month after they get him....

Except if you want to PvP, in which case your available skillset is determined by how many chapters you bought.

But if you just want to PvE, the "separate games" philosophy sounds like it'll work really well.

To me mate, it was more like. Okay so im using hundreds of hours on getting really good equipment, but then they will just add even much better gear that is needed to win and new level caps, and so the circle goes on for the next ten years.
I think if I continued to play World of Warcraft myself, it would have destroyed my life.

And the worst thing for myself was that I was not really having fun. For every single hour I had fun with some guild mates, achiving something, doing a fun quest or something like that, I had to go through 30 hours of tedious grinding, boring and time consuming walking/flying distances, reparing, and so on.
Im just happy that I can play GW for a few minutes. Sometimes I litterly quickly just have some fun killing some hydras, log out and take a bite to eat. I simply love that you can have such a fast satisfying experience in an RPG

No! I just realised that in a few years they are going to shut down the server! no more guild wars! noooOOOOooo!

The one vulnerability I see GW as having is that it is simply more accessible to kids than a pay-per-month game. Which means that in-game behavior could deteriorate someday. Even between Beta and now, there's been a significant change in the average player. If GW becomes overrun by kids and/or perceived as overrun by kids, they'll lose the mature player market. So far, there's still lots of us hanging around just because of the love of the game.

Don't expect that to happen for a long time. Anet has a sound business plan, and has been building an excellent reputation for game development, support and innovation, whatever the response to GW may be. It's only been a little over a year and they are a noteworthy presence in the marketplace. GW is probably the beginning of several game projects, whether GW-related or not. And even if we assume that the expansion approach levels off in the next couple of years, it will still be worth it for them to keep the servers up and the game supported from a service and reputation standpoint while their other projects come out.

That depends. By releasing Factions and other "expansion packs" as standalones, they actually make the game more accessible to new players in some ways. You don't have to buy both the base game and the expansion which most intrigues you, in order to get the content that's enticing you to play. Instead, you can get the more interesting of the 2 (or 3 or 4 later), and expand afterward, if you feel you want to do so.

Everyone wants the Supersuperuber stuff, hm?

Uber is a perception. Even in Diablo, I've never found Uber stuff to be any more effective than good stuff in my hands. It's how you play. Too bad more people haven't figured that out.

Don't bet on it. Those games are primarily focused on single-player market and are simply throwing online mode in as a value-added feature. You won't see the care taken to balance, upgrade and innovate that you're seeing in GW.

(But hopefully Anet will implement better trade and party-finding functionality before their competitors beat them to it, or players might not realize this as clearly.)

That's up to the GW community. And you're right, it's sad that there hasn't been more fan development. Hopefully in year 2. Part of that is lost from eliminating modding and such, though.

Hm: How's this for an expansion or plugin idea, Anet? The ability to create your own guild hall map and guild combat arena, and share with others who have the same expansion pack? Or a plugin to create character skins or armor skins (using existing meshes), again shareable with others who have the plugin? Of course, the latter might require a certain approval method, so we don't end up with x-rated characters running around. It might also kill the dye market, but would sure address the desires of many to have unique-looking armor, faces, hair, etc.

Pre-searing is sometimes not a good way to introduce the game from a pacing standpoint. I wonder if they'd be better to have a downloadable single-map PvE sample and single-arena vs. henchies PvP sample with a UAS (or partial sampling of skills) feature as game demos?

Just a few thoughts spawned by your post.

Thanks for it sister. I agree with allot that you say, and I certainly feel more "calm" right now.
What you said about fan community made me think, then how do people get that going?
If you look at a site like warcraftmovies.com you have a site with an incredible amount of activity, but it's sister site, guildwarsmovies.com is pretty much dead.

Sure, GW might be limited in some areas, but there are still some funny emotes, culturel references and beautiful sightseings I think. Though somehoe I feel it's wrong to "diss" a community, when im not one spot better myself. I simply just don't know how to edit or make that sort of stuff. I just think that GW could reach out to a much bigger aray of people if GW fans were/seemed more passionate about the game. Maybe that's a wrong assumption though.

Just let them know: 8 skills means having to win by strategy, not by volume or button-mashing, which presents the superior challenge. And topping at level 20 means less grind and more enjoying the content at your peak. Those insights have made a difference to a lot of ex-Diablo and ex-WoW players I know.

6 months might be too soon, and 1 year will seem too long to a lot of players. However, if they aim for 6 months, actual release dates will probably be closer to 9 months or so (as happens in the game dev marketplace), which is just right.

It's too soon to really confirm anything, especially the future of Guild Wars or the destiny of Anet. What can be said is that despite our cult followings of Guild Wars, and it's millions of fans worldwide. WoW is still more popular than Guild Wars.... It cant be said whether one is better than the other, because simply when you boil down to it, GW and WoW are two different online games.

I for one appreciate GW for their devotion to not forcing players to pay a substantial amount of commitment to the game. Guild Wars is the kind of game you can play during your lunch break, in World of Warcrat you cannot.

Sigh. This thread made me sad

Sorry

Do not worry about the day Guild Wars ends, as all good things in life has an end.

Remember, it's a lot easier for us to say good bye to our level 20s, than those hardcore WoW players to say good bye to their lvl 60s. Those guys are gonna have to go into therapy to recover...

For now we rejoice and have fun.

Why worry about something that isn't bound to happen for a long time to come?! Seems rather silly if you ask me. Sit back, enjoy the game, etc. I guess I just prefer to be a 'glass half full' person than needlessly borrowing trouble.

I think we all need to sing "Don't Worry, Be Happy" and roast marshmallows over char alters.

Seriously, the game isn't going down anytime soon, so why worry? Enjoy the game and when and if that day comes that GW ends, remeber the good times and find something new.

Exactly, we should just chill, see what comes our way.. afterall, why worry about the end when it's just begun?

Cheers.

You know the WoW project was started by Anet people before they left Blizzard...

I understand your concern but it is unfound. Anet has made alot more money on thier first game then Blizzard or Everquest. To be truthfull Diablo is slowly down I have played Battlenet for some time and noticed it's not as full as before not to metion the rumors of a Diablo 3 comeing out has weaken the fans. That rumor has been around for 3 or 4 years and yet Blizzard has said nothing so the players are getting bored, far as WoW I don't like it one bit so I refuse to even try it. FF 11 can't even began to touch this game it is unquie in every way. From it's battle system, lore, just look at the detail in the weapons! The detail in the classes themselves thier in so much detail and depth it's nuts! O.o This game will not die in the next 10 or even 20 years belive that.

Anet and NCSoft have created an excellent model that's being copied by the likes of giants like SOE. They're going to be here for a long time. And they've made a great product. I've tried other MMOs, including WoW. None can hold a candle to GW. They've created a beautiful, emersive game that i'm totally addicted to. I've been playing since June 2005 and haven't gotten bored with it at all. That's saying a lot because I'm as A.D.D. as they come.