An annoying thing is that Guild Members do not enter the same District when "Mapping" to a new location. I believe that each Guild should have its own default District based on the first member to arrive. (Multiple Guilds per District of course.)
Whenever you map, you would always start in the same default district as the first Guild member to occupy the map location.
Guild Default Districts
Greentongue
dinglenut
I like this idea, I'm bumping due to the lack of bumpage on good ideas and the continued posting on the not so good ones.
JohnCoke
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Originally Posted by Greentongue
An annoying thing is that Guild Members do not enter the same District when "Mapping" to a new location. I believe that each Guild should have its own default District based on the first member to arrive. (Multiple Guilds per District of course.)
Whenever you map, you would always start in the same default district as the first Guild member to occupy the map location. |
I'd agree with you except for the fact that this would HUGELY increase server load. Could you imagine trying to keep track of thousands of guilds, that's thousands of check statements. Think that'd be a bit much just for guilds. The current implementation lets you travel instantly and it only takes 2-3 seconds to switch districts. While there is room for improvement I think this is a bit over the top. My opinion though.
RTSFirebat
"Bumpage" is not a word 
Anyways I do like this idea, basically.
IF Guild_District # is NOT full, THEN enter Guild_District #
ELSE Enter next one up.
something like that. Would be handy to keep guild groups together.
As for server load, don't think it will be that much, servers are more powerful the most people give them credit for.
Simply the server will have to check if the District has a space, its only a matter of checking a number against the player's guild.
Anyways I do like this idea, basically.
IF Guild_District # is NOT full, THEN enter Guild_District #
ELSE Enter next one up.
something like that. Would be handy to keep guild groups together.
As for server load, don't think it will be that much, servers are more powerful the most people give them credit for.
Simply the server will have to check if the District has a space, its only a matter of checking a number against the player's guild.
JohnCoke
Yeh checking thousands time a second, I work in data storage. It's not the servers, its the connection to them. Having to do this for every instance someone enters a town/outpost would increase unneeded load. Already see lag, no reason to make more. Just wanted to add, that servers are normal PC's, nothing more nothing less (except memory, drive space, and maybe # of processors). For the usual case.
RTSFirebat
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Originally Posted by JohnCoke
Yeh checking thousands time a second, I work in data storage. It's not the servers, its the connection to them. Having to do this for every instance someone enters a town/outpost would increase unneeded load. Already see lag, no reason to make more. Just wanted to add, that servers are normal PC's, nothing more nothing less (except memory, drive space, and maybe # of processors). For the usual case.
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JohnCoke
Considering we make your data storage, if you're referring to IBM. We make most of your controllers/drive tray arrays. I'm the guy who tests the next line of products for you... the ones you aren't using. I'll PM you my phone number if you want and we can discuss this. Not going to post it though. It's Friday and I'm bored at work.
RTSFirebat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JohnCoke
Considering we make your data storage, if you're referring to IBM. We make most of your controllers/drive tray arrays. I'm the guy who tests the next line of products for you... the ones you aren't using. I'll PM you my phone number if you want and we can discuss this. Not going to post it though. It's Friday and I'm bored at work.
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In any case not my fault if A.Net cannot afford to invest in better data storage methods.
Then again this game is free-2-play and I'm sure they most likely never will.
JohnCoke
Wow. Said I was bored and now I have an ego. Your the one who wanted to debate over the power of servers? Now you opt out blaming Anet? Alright, thats fine but don't criticize me for telling the truth. And once again, it's not they're data storage, its not they're servers (mostly), its they're connection and the packets sent over it. Having to check every single time someone enters will increase unneeded traffic. Period.
Kopus Tol
I don't see how this would massively increase traffic. A member in a guild enters a town, and that member's client asks the clients of the other members where they are. Compare this to: A member in a guild enters a town, and uses guild chat to ask what district the other guild members are in. It looks like the same amount of traffic to me.
JohnCoke
It may seem that way but it isn't. The traffic HAS to go through the server connection first. Chat..pfft. That's no traffic. But doing If statements isn't much, except multiply it by the number of characters and then you have a search function to look for the guild members in a guild list up to 100. Yeh, traffic. And it's unneded "in my opinion". Argue with it if you want, but there is an increase in traffic. I never said massive. Stop putting words in my mouth. As the game's connection is already obviously stressed a little, anything more that isn't needed I'd suggest against. No matter what it is.
Kopus Tol
Doing guild chat is no traffic? You have no idea what you're talking about.
JohnCoke
Sorry, little traffic. You read into my words literally 
. Its nothing compared to this addition. Or ARE YOU going to argue that ASCII characters take up massive amounts of traffic?
. Its nothing compared to this addition. Or ARE YOU going to argue that ASCII characters take up massive amounts of traffic?
Kopus Tol
Since you admit that guild chat takes up so little traffic, think of it like this. I enter Lion's Arch, and send a guild chat saying so. Whoever is in the guild that is also in Lion's Arch sends a whisper to me saying what district they're in. I switch to that district.
Now automate that, and that is the addition.
Now automate that, and that is the addition.
JohnCoke
That is YOU the person changing districts. Maybe you don't know automation. It sacrifices speed of the computer/interface, for speed/usability for the user. Always. If I automate that statement, as I already have told you. Then instead of YOU, just once clicking on change district after a guild message. We now have:
Entering Town
Search Entire Populus of Town for Guild Mates
If Guild Mate is in town, then search again for other guild mates.
If two guild mates are in same district, search again to make sure more are not in another district.
FINALLY FOUND THE DISTRICT WITH THE MOST GUILD MATES.
Send YOU to that district.
Hope I clarified a bit. This is obviously much more abusive than, Hey what distro you in? 4, brt.
Entering Town
Search Entire Populus of Town for Guild Mates
If Guild Mate is in town, then search again for other guild mates.
If two guild mates are in same district, search again to make sure more are not in another district.
FINALLY FOUND THE DISTRICT WITH THE MOST GUILD MATES.
Send YOU to that district.
Hope I clarified a bit. This is obviously much more abusive than, Hey what distro you in? 4, brt.
Kopus Tol
> Entering Town
OK.
> Search Entire Populus of Town for Guild Mates
Unnecessary. Search list of logged on Guild Mates to see who is in town.
> If Guild Mate is in town, then search again for other guild mates.
Unnecessary. Go straight to that district.
>If two guild mates are in same district, search again to make sure more are not in >another district.
Unnecessary. Why would two guild mates be in different districts?
> FINALLY FOUND THE DISTRICT WITH THE MOST GUILD MATES.
Unnecessary. See above.
> Send YOU to that district.
Way ahead of you.
OK.
> Search Entire Populus of Town for Guild Mates
Unnecessary. Search list of logged on Guild Mates to see who is in town.
> If Guild Mate is in town, then search again for other guild mates.
Unnecessary. Go straight to that district.
>If two guild mates are in same district, search again to make sure more are not in >another district.
Unnecessary. Why would two guild mates be in different districts?
> FINALLY FOUND THE DISTRICT WITH THE MOST GUILD MATES.
Unnecessary. See above.
> Send YOU to that district.
Way ahead of you.
JohnCoke
Why on earth would they keep position in the guild roster? Again unneeded traffic. When you can just ask. All you've done is put more into the guild roster. Well then you can just pick the district that you see labelled in the roster, which that idea may have more than one implementation (i.e. guild members may be busy in a mission) so that one I may agree with simply for its multiple abilities. You have to check for other guild mates in case of concurrent log ons, in games bugs, guild mate zoning in/out at time of joining, etc.. Otherwise you may end up with other problems like infinite loops when there is a guild mate in a different district.
EDIT: Here is what I think might be a compromise:
Next to name in guild roster, say what town/district/mission/area Guild Mate is in.
Then when you travel, you just have to hit the right district.
EDIT AGAIN: You have to remember this game doesn't have "servers" as individuals. So just zapping a character between districts could be between servers, this can also lead to problems.
EDIT: Here is what I think might be a compromise:
Next to name in guild roster, say what town/district/mission/area Guild Mate is in.
Then when you travel, you just have to hit the right district.
EDIT AGAIN: You have to remember this game doesn't have "servers" as individuals. So just zapping a character between districts could be between servers, this can also lead to problems.
Kopus Tol
> Why on earth would they keep position in the guild roster? Again unneeded traffic.
They wouldn't.
> When you can just ask.
This is the whole point. This is just asking. Except that the client asks and changes districts for you.
They wouldn't.
> When you can just ask.
This is the whole point. This is just asking. Except that the client asks and changes districts for you.
JohnCoke
Agree to disagree (I honestly feel you dont have enough experience, but you may be right). One question, then how on earth does it search for guild members locations if its not clearly dictated in a structure such as the guild roster. You're kind of hazy on your implementation.
Kopus Tol
Let's look at the current implementation.
"Hey what distro you in? 4, brt."
So you're using guild chat to ask where your guild mates are. Your guildmates use guild chat to respond to you. We agree that guild chat doesn't take up a lot of traffic.
So what we need is a way for one client to send a message to the clients of guild mates. It's exactly like guild chat, except that instead of the players talking to each other, the clients are. This must already exist, for the guild window to update when a member logs in or logs out.
So this also doesn't take up a lot of traffic.
So now for "Hey what distro you in? 4, brt.", instead of using guild chat, use the second, client to client chat.
"Hey what distro you in? 4, brt."
So you're using guild chat to ask where your guild mates are. Your guildmates use guild chat to respond to you. We agree that guild chat doesn't take up a lot of traffic.
So what we need is a way for one client to send a message to the clients of guild mates. It's exactly like guild chat, except that instead of the players talking to each other, the clients are. This must already exist, for the guild window to update when a member logs in or logs out.
So this also doesn't take up a lot of traffic.
So now for "Hey what distro you in? 4, brt.", instead of using guild chat, use the second, client to client chat.
JohnCoke
Sigh, but you HAVE to record where the player is, check that value against the region your opening (i.e. Lion's Arch or Yak's Bend), for each guild mate. Still not a good system. In fact its still the same system with all the increased traffic. Maybe if you thought of something new.
EDIT: How about this then?
Hold a 16 bit hexadecimal value of each outpost/town in the game.
If you kept it small like this,and literally inside a structure like the guild roster. Then checking it wouldn't make much difference.. it'd actually be less than chat. But this is WAY too generalized and probably has half a dozen of its own problemss, I'm just seeing we're making no progress on details.
EDIT: How about this then?
Hold a 16 bit hexadecimal value of each outpost/town in the game.
If you kept it small like this,and literally inside a structure like the guild roster. Then checking it wouldn't make much difference.. it'd actually be less than chat. But this is WAY too generalized and probably has half a dozen of its own problemss, I'm just seeing we're making no progress on details.
Kopus Tol
Look, these are the steps right now.
1. Ask your guild mates where they are.
2. Get the location.
3. Change to that location.
There are the proposed steps.
1. Ask your guild mates where they are.
2. Get the location.
3. Change to that location.
The only difference is the computer is doing these steps, not the player. The traffic is the same. Yes, your computer has to check your location with the locations of your guild mates. However, this does not take up network traffic.
1. Ask your guild mates where they are.
2. Get the location.
3. Change to that location.
There are the proposed steps.
1. Ask your guild mates where they are.
2. Get the location.
3. Change to that location.
The only difference is the computer is doing these steps, not the player. The traffic is the same. Yes, your computer has to check your location with the locations of your guild mates. However, this does not take up network traffic.
JohnCoke
YES IT DOES! Sheesh, the server does these steps. And therefore has to grab it from all the guild members.
Kopus Tol
Where are you getting information right now? FROM YOUR GUILD MEMBERS.
You are talking to your guild members already. Every time you log in, every time you log out, every time you use guild chat.
You are talking to your guild members already. Every time you log in, every time you log out, every time you use guild chat.
JohnCoke
But it isn't constantly grabbing the information. Your talking about occurences. You'd have to keep track of their position ALL the time, everytime they change areas etc..
Kopus Tol
Do you have to keep track of their positions ALL the time right now, to know what district to go to?
JohnCoke
o, but its you, a human being asking and remembering. Not the computer.You have to store it somewhere, and update that list everytime they change. Unless you want to only grab that information when "you" need it which would be even more horrendous for the hundreds of thousands of users.
Kopus Tol
Constantly grabbing the information is bad. We both agree with that.
>Unless you want to only grab that information when "you" need it which
>would be even more horrendous for the hundreds of thousands of users.
I don't understand this though. So everytime ask my guild what district they're in it's bad for the game?
>Unless you want to only grab that information when "you" need it which
>would be even more horrendous for the hundreds of thousands of users.
I don't understand this though. So everytime ask my guild what district they're in it's bad for the game?
JohnCoke
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Originally Posted by Kopus Tol
Constantly grabbing the information is bad. We both agree with that.
>Unless you want to only grab that information when "you" need it which >would be even more horrendous for the hundreds of thousands of users. I don't understand this though. So everytime ask my guild what district they're in it's bad for the game? |
Opposed to, updating the information continually, say if you exit a town. Then it updates the list to your new area. That list is in the structure on the server that everyone can see/use. So they'll always have your current location. This creates traffic often, but not in as big of spikes. For games, often is better than spikes (spikes=lag). Uniformity is better than erratic.
Kopus Tol
What makes getting the information take up more traffic than guild chat?
Marus Varrus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kopus Tol
Let's look at the current implementation.
"Hey what distro you in? 4, brt." So you're using guild chat to ask where your guild mates are. Your guildmates use guild chat to respond to you. We agree that guild chat doesn't take up a lot of traffic. So what we need is a way for one client to send a message to the clients of guild mates. It's exactly like guild chat, except that instead of the players talking to each other, the clients are. This must already exist, for the guild window to update when a member logs in or logs out. So this also doesn't take up a lot of traffic. So now for "Hey what distro you in? 4, brt.", instead of using guild chat, use the second, client to client chat. |
wish101
How about this?
Hold ALT+Left Click on the city of your choice on the map and a box pops up asking you which district you'd like to go to in that city.
Obviously, you'd ask in guild chat first where everyone was going.
Voila!
Hold ALT+Left Click on the city of your choice on the map and a box pops up asking you which district you'd like to go to in that city.
Obviously, you'd ask in guild chat first where everyone was going.
Voila!