Fencer/ Duelist Concept Class

There was a recent outburst of concept classes by various people on the suggestion forum. This got my blood boiling and prompt me to do one again. (actually, this would be the 3rd version of a Fencer idea) However, please not that this is not complete yet (I will try to finish it later), but want to post early to see if can get some construtive feedbacks.

still missing are:
- Pictures
- Other attribute, and some skills for the primary
- Backstory?
- Balance issues
- Ideas for Class combos
- Why would it be unique or differnt form other class

Also I am uncertain what to do with those 3 attributes, that while they would fit into the frame work of the class, but it would be too many attributes. So ideas in what to cut or what to combine?
Dual Wield:
Countering:
Footwork:

Will updated more of it soon.
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Class name: Fencer / Duelist

Favored Weapons: They will be expert in using Fencing Weapons, which include ( Saber, Epee, Scimitar, Cutlass, Rapier – Difference in their damage type and damage range). Those light arm weapon have a lower damage output than that of sword (maybe a max damage of 15-18), but are faster to attack (say a 0.8 second per attack)

Energy: Estimate 25 with basic armors; 3 Regen pips. With some set of armor, can go up to 35.
Armor: Estimate the max AL should be around 50-60 range.
Look: Look a bit like cross between Pirates and 17th Century French Musketeers.
Some possible names for the armor sets.
Fencer’s Outfit
Duelist’s Outfit
Sea Dog’s Outfit
Captain’s Outfit
Antagonist’s Outfit

Premise:
They are a class the excel in one on one melee attacking. They have a style of play of fast attack, rapid spaming of skills to create combos, that make you think on your feet. They can lure enemy in with their taunts, erect dueling rings to make the fight more to your advantage, and dish off some good attacks with their attack skills.

Attributes:

Swiftness: (Primary): For ever rank in this attribute, will increase you attack and movement speed by 1%.

Fencing Mastery: Points in this Attribute will have better use in Fencing Weapons and damage/condition dealing.

Taunts: Shouts Skills that cause de-buff on enemy and lure them to attack you.

Dueling: Rings and other skills that help you better to keep the match in a 1v1.

Dual Wield: Under Construction
Countering: Under Construction
Footwork: Under Construction


Skill Examples:

Fencing Mastery:
The main damaging dealing attribute. Much of Fencing Mastery skills are the use of Pose. This allow them to create a more flexible combo than that of warrior or assassin, where they can link different attacks one after another.

Pose
One of the unique playing style of a Fencer is that they can apply different “Pose” to their opponent, and combo from it. Pose is somewhat similar to Conditions, in that they add a negative status to the target, but it will be very short lasting (for now, will say last 2 seconds). And only one Pose maybe applies on a single target (the new one will replace the previous one).

• Open – Skill cast take 50% longer
• Un-guard – decrease AL by 25%
• Cornered – decrease Movement Speed by 33% and back a step
• Unbalance – 50% chance of missing
• Overwhelm – decrease attack speed by 25%

“False Lead”
5e | next attack | 5r: Evade the next melee attack and cause the opponent to be Unbalance. If target is already Open, will make them overwhelm.

“Arc Swipe”
5e | next attack | 5r: Block the next melee attack and cause the opponent to be Open. If target is already un-guard, will disarm them.

“Dual Attack”
5e | next attack | 5r: Attack twice, and cause target to be Overwhelm.

“In Strike”
5e | next attack | 5r: This will have 50% armor penetration, and cause Corner.

“Tip Counter”
5e | next attack | 5r: Block the next melee attack and cause the opponent to be Un-guard. If target is already in Open pose, will deal X extra damage.

“ Unbalance Lead”
5e | next attack | 5r: If this attack hits, will cause Unbalance on the target. If the target is already in Unbalance pose, will knock down.

“ Downward Thrust”
5e | next attack | 5r: If this attack hits, will cause Unbalance on the target. If the target is will knock down, will deal X extra damage and apply Deep Wound.

“Opening Thrust”
5e | next attack | 5r: If this attack hits, will cause Un-guard on the target, and if target’s health is above 50%, will deal additional X damage. If target is already in Open pose, will deal X more damage and Bleed.

“Forceful Thrust”
5e | next attack | 5r: This attack deals X extra damage and cause Corner. If target is already in Corner pose, will deal X extra damage. If target is already in Open pose, will deal X extra damage and Bleed.

“Dazing Thrust”
5e | next attack | 5r: If this attack hits, will cause Overwhelm on the target. If the target is already in Cornered or Overwhelm pose, will deal X extra damage and apply Daze.

“Break Thrust”
5e | next attack | 5r: If this attack hits, will cause Un-guard on the target. This attack is Un-blockable. If target is already in Corned pose, will decrease target AL by X% for T seconds.


Taunt
Similar to Warrior Shouts, but its more aimed toward one target. A good way to distract and de-buff them. Also ways to attract enemy into attacking you. Often time, the taunt will act like double edge sword, giving the target some plus as well as the negatives. Beside the de-buff, could also work as buff skill if targeted toward your allies (also single target). And like Shout, you also get a word bubble on top of you head when using it.


“Come Get Me if You Dare”
10e | 0c | 30r: For the next X seconds, your target decrease in X AL. (will attract Mob). This ends if they hits you.

“Your Mind is as Feeble as you Looks!”
10e | 0c | 30r: For the next X seconds, your target suffer X pip of energy degen. (will attract Mob). This ends if they hits you.

“Look Here Ya Bloated Pig!”
5e | 0c | 30r: Target’s next attack/spell is redirected from its original intended target to you.

"Your Mama is a Sea cow!"
10e | 2c | 45r: For next X seconds, Your target increase in Y attack speed, but decrease Z armor.

"You Aim like a Blind Old Bat”
10e | 0c | 30r: For next X seconds, Your target will have Y% chance of missing in attack, but gain 1 pip of energy regen.

“Grow a Pair of Ear and Hear”
10e | 0c | 30r: Transfer all effect of shout/taunt and their remaining durations from target foe to all foes adjacent to your target.

“You Hold that Sword like a Little Girl”
10e | 0c | 30r: Decrease target foe/allies melee attack by X%, but increase its range attack by Z%.


Dueling

Ring
Rings are like Elementlist’s Wards. They cover an area center around you, and is stationary. But a Duelist’s ring tend to provide more personal benefits, that is use for defending or to change the battle ground to your needs, or to keep the enemy in or out.

“Duelist’s Ring”
10e | 1c | 30r: While in its AoE, your attack gain X% of armor penetration. Last for T seconds.

“Pose Ring”
10e | 1c | 30r: In its AoE, all Pose last 1…3 second longer. Last for T seconds.

“Defender’s Ring”
10e | 1c | 30r: While in its AoE, you gain extra X AL. Last for T seconds.

“Burning Ring”
10e | 1c | 30r: While in its AoE, Enemy suffer X fire damage every second, but can attack 33% faster. Last for T seconds.

“Umbrella Ring”
10e | 1c | 30r: While in its AoE, you have +X AL against all range attacks. Last for T seconds.

“Ring of Unwanted Guest”
10e | 1c | 30r: For two or more enemy inside this Ring, enemy will suffer X damage. If more enemy enters this ring, they will be dealt with X damages. Last for T seconds.

“Fog Ring”
10e | 1c | 30r: While in its AoE, You and your enemy are blind. Last for T seconds.

“Ring Out”
5e | 1c | 30r: In duration of T seconds, if target foe leave any of you rings, they suffer X damage.

“Encircling Ring”
10e | 1c | 30r: In duration of T seconds, target foe can not move out on this Ring.

“Soloing”
5e | 1c | 30r: If there are no Allies near you, you gain +X Attack and +Y HP regen for T seconds.

“Personal Challenge”
10e | 1c | 30r: For the next T seconds, you gain +X AL against all attacks from all enemies but for the one you are targeting, and decrease you movement by 50%. This end if you do not hit your target every 3 seconds.

“Uneven Match”
5e | 1c | 20r: If you are taking damage from more than one enemy, you gain +X damage to your attack and Y HP regen for the next T seconds.
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Dual Wield ( Dual Weapon Binding System)

This system is design to allow dual any two same-type of weapon.

In Blacksmith NPC, you will have the option to “Bind” two single hand weapon (sword, axe, wand, etc) into one dual wield “package”. This allow more freedom in choosing what two weapon you want to bind together, depend on their look or stats. When Bind, the weapon’s mod will be Halved. This mean that if one weapon had a mod of lengthen poison time by 33%, the combined dual weapon package will have the stats of lengthen poison duration by 17%. You will be able to unbind them for another fee. (the attack damage will be depend on the attack pattern, soon to be discussed below)

So take example of two weapons, one is a 16-21 sword with +5 energy and 33% length poison mod, another is a 13-22 sword with a +3/-1 vampire and a 33% poison mod. Combined, it will give a total mod effect of +3 energy, +33% poison, and +2/-1 vampire. (depend on the rounding, in this case, it is rounded up) Overall, it will be better than a single weapon, but remember, you are also sacrificing the off hand slot to equip it.

For damage, it will follow an attack pattern of Right hand. Left hand, Both hand, repeat. The attack speed will be the SAME as that of weapon type. So making a table, it will be like (Assuming your attribute meet the requirement):

(* damage in both hand strike will vary with ranks in a Dual Wield Attribute. So if only 1 points in it, will only do 50%+50% each, but at 15 points, will do 90%+90% each)

Again, you are sacrificing your off hand slot for more damage.

I think with this system, it would offer more freedoms (unlike the daggers), but still keeping it in fair balance.

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Work in Progress....??

Concept Class

This seems interesting.

hmm for some reason i get the impression of a mesmer rushing in and waving a sword around.

This pic any good?

Found it by searching google images 'fencer/duelist'

Fencer/Duelist

I really like the whole idea and premise of this by the way. Good job. I'm not sure I have much more comment other than that.

It's alright, Actionjack gets the slack. But since when is smoking cool because everyone else is doing it?

"There was a recent outburst of concept classes by various people on the suggestion forum. This got my blood boiling and prompt me to do one again. (actually, this would be the 3rd version of a Fencer idea) However, please not that this is not complete yet (I will try to finish it later), but want to post early to see if can get some construtive feedbacks."

Other than that, you're the only one with actual bearing on virtual reality. Wow that sounds pretty damn warped. And it's spelled 'Constructive.'

I really like this idea, if for no other reason than I'm a fencer and fencing is cool. It would definately change combat dynamics alot and with the fast attack speed would make spells like illusionary weapons absolutely deadly.

can i go Fe/Mo and be an elite version of a wammo with mending and hh?

Very interesting, kinda picture a Jack Sparrow rushing into battle?

This would be good with Assn move chaining.

hmm.. how did this one got rev again? Must be the new private movie coming out...

Actually, the first draft of it was done as sorta chanllenge to make a Pirate class... but was later modified to this... which I like.

Yes, the attack speed and dual weapon part still need some work out. Its really being tie down by those attacking modifcation spell...

Fencer will have the weaker armor, thus not as great of a tanker. They could, however, have defensive ablity by their Ring Skills, or by skillful use of their Pose/swordplay.

The idea is they will shine when in a 1 on 1 situation. Of couse, I also like the taunts, which is a differnt from of mesmer type of skill, and could really use to make them come to you.


anyway, thx for the replie

I think the primary attribute would be a bit unfair. Generally I think innate attack speed will always be on par or lower than a warrior attacking with a sword and innate movement speed will always be everyone's movement speed.

It is offset by an incredibly low AL level for a melee character, but I don't think that is enough

awesome ideas, but taunting won't work on humans... or at least smart ones lol

Taunts are mean to be somewhat like the hex. Usually it would have dual conditions, which give the target both some negative as well as positive effect for short duration (can also be used on allies?)

Another kind of taunt would the a luring taunt, which is design to make enemy come to you. This would be done by applying negative hex on them, and will be lifted when the duration is over, or when that foe come and hit you. Thus if they do not want to suffer more of that hex, they would come over and try ot hit you, which would break off their position, and you would lure them to a one-on-one situation (where than you would put up lots rings and fencing combo on them) Even if it does not work on smart human player, it would still function well as a hex-type skill.

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yes, the primary with the attack speed might need some rework. But still think that even at max of 15% faster attack speed, its not too powerful.

actually... if you want to lure an enemy too you, or at least half of your community (especially in pre ascaclon one :P) just disguise yourself as a naked dancing ele.. although maybe that be a better illusion magic skill lol, still that make get humans. Computer you could disguise yourself as some crazy new RAM.

So, I was in shower thinking about the Muskteer class (or pic from Granda Espada), when it don on my of a nice dual wield system (somewhat taken from Lineage II). So here it is:

Dual Wield ( Dual Weapon Binding System)

This system is design to allow dual any two same-type of weapon.

In Blacksmith NPC, you will have the option to “Bind” two single hand weapon (sword, axe, wand, etc) into one dual wield “package”. This allow more freedom in choosing what two weapon you want to bind together, depend on their look or stats. When Bind, the weapon’s mod will be Halved. This mean that if one weapon had a mod of lengthen poison time by 33%, the combined dual weapon package will have the stats of lengthen poison duration by 17%. You will be able to unbind them for another fee. (the attack damage will be depend on the attack pattern, soon to be discussed below)

So take example of two weapons, one is a 16-21 sword with +5 energy and 33% length poison mod, another is a 13-22 sword with a +3/-1 vampire and a 33% poison mod. Combined, it will give a total mod effect of +3 energy, +33% poison, and +2/-1 vampire. (depend on the rounding, in this case, it is rounded up) Overall, it will be better than a single weapon, but remember, you are also sacrificing the off hand slot to equip it.

For damage, it will follow an attack pattern of Right hand. Left hand, Both hand, repeat. The attack speed will be the SAME as that of weapon type. So making a table, it will be like (Assuming your attribute meet the requirement):

(* damage in both hand strike will vary with ranks in a Dual Wield Attribute. So if only 1 points in it, will only do 50%+50% each, but at 15 points, will do 90%+90% each)

Again, you are sacrificing your off hand slot for more damage.

I think with this system, it would offer more freedoms (unlike the daggers), but still keeping it in fair balance.

I like the new ideas you came up with That code thingy with the scroll bar is awesome too

So does this class have it's own weapons, or can you dual weild anything? That cool, be kinda insane with 2 wands, too bad daggars, hammers, and bows couldn't be doubled, even though that would be very nice though. So does it actually just merge into one? Or do you use both hands, because i guess then you could merge bows and stuff.

Either way keep up the awesome job on your class

Edit* i reread the stuff, merging the stuff into one is cool, but will it work on bows, but it takes both hands to used a merged weapon correct?

for Q &A: You can only merge single item weapons (so no staff, bow, hammer, dagger). When merged, they will become a package, like assassin's dagger (show up as one item, but is actually two dagger). This system is design so that you can bind any two weapons, as long as they are of same type. When equiped, it will take over both hand.

Wand is still a matter up for disscussion.

There would be a Dual Wielding attribute that would be use to control it. There will be skills in there to help one perfomr with dual wielding better, as well as increase the effectness of using a dual wield. However, must also have the weapon attribute be a the level that meet weapon's requiment to fully use it. Also a Fencer class would get Rapier mastery and Rapier-type of weapon, which they could use to dual wield as well.

0.o.... unusual... but i think of people in full white strechy-stuff.... unusual... it seems a little too modern if you ask me. but im sure without a doubt that ANET could make it look like something in GW time.

thanks for explaining that

I like this one!

The primary attribute should only have an increase in attack speed (as a permanent movement speed adjustment is unbalanced to say the least). Having a max of +16% isn't unbalanced in the least. Especially since it would be offset with a lower damage, i'd say 15-20. Also attack speed would be capped at +33%. It also makes sense in a realistic way, because fencing is all about speed and precision, and with more experience you should be able to attack faster, consistantly.

The armor level is a little low seeing as the armor would probably be mostly leather, so 70 would be more appropriate...otherwise they would have zero survivability as a melee class (ooh like the Assassin).

Poses are an excellent idea! Though the name should be changed because it really doesnt describe the fact it is unadvantageous. Maybe simply calling them Disadvantages.

Kudos on the taunts line...the fact that it only affects one opponent separates it from the paragon. Though...maybe just calling these taunts rather than shouts would probably make more sense.

I'm not sure what to think about the rings/ward thing...though i do want to hear what footwork might entail before a make any judgements.

^ Maellus: Thxs for the welcoming consturctive review.

-The Primary should be change. yes, don't think it is necessary to have the movment speed in there. I guess attack speed should be enough. It shouldn't be too powerful, with the cap and all.

-Yes, AL is too low. I was not fully knowledgible in AL back than... but should be around 65 to 70, ranger level. They will need to use other defensive skill to keep themself alive.

-Poses could have a better name. I don't take Fencing class afterall... Again, a reminder, Poses is design to give a more freedom in combing, and should be quick and spammable. Unlike assassin's ABC, you could go A-C-B-C-A-B and so on. Of couse, its best work if its in a 1-1 situation, else even your teamate might break your combo.

-Taunt could get merge into Dualing to make room for another attribute.

-Perosnally I love the ring. Its what keep other enemy out, and your target in. Afterall, that is why they are call dualist (and taunt to lure them in)

-Food work was orignally envision to have lots hit-run, movement attacks and evasion skills. But I would rather see the Dual Wielding (as describe above for the Combine weapon system) as the added attribute.

yeah dual weilding is defiatnly a cool thing

try adding in a glove slap, that's quite popular among duelists^^.

More WoW ripoffs... Ok you can not disarm people in this game, If anything I would make anything considered "disarming" force them to lose adrenaline. the 5 things you added overwhelm, unbalanced, un-guard, etc are just ridiculous. Why not make these like hexes. If you haven't noticed yet guildwars doesn't add new conditions/skill types to the game, They create new ways to manipulate given mechanics. So that pretty much eliminates the whole fencing line. As for the class Idea I would hate to see it be wasted on another sword warrior... You can't force something to target you! Stop adding that into all of your class ideas, I hate to say this again but... Guildwars doesn't = WoW. The rings are boring and you may want to re-think the numbers on your "dual wielding swords" the damage is way to high, and guess what? we already have an assassin. Your primary attribute is not balanced, with 16 attribute points no one will ever catch up to you unless they're in a run buff which is pretty retarded.

So...The entire (Lead)(Offhand)(Dual) System wasn't new? And binding rituals aren't new? And I suppose Echos and Chants aren't new either?

I think the class is brilliant and would play well after balancing. Of course, play-testing woudl be best, but it probably will never happen ;_;

Skill types, such as conditions or hexes which is what they are, If you would have quoted just a little more you would have seen that I suggested his un-guard, etc type skills to appear as hexes.

Any sort of taunt skill will never work in GW. Even suggesting something similar shows you have no concept of how the game is designed. Never suggest skills that are only for PvE, as PvE is irrelevant.

I like this build, different from assassin and warrior yet still melee, and I like the whole disarm attack etc thing and the 2 swords a really neat idea, how about a green in each hand?

~Doom

omg i was like halfway through writing the EXACT SAME THINGG when i decided to look at the pro index
like lit. our primary attribs woulda bin the same
lol
this would be sucha cool class

SKILL SUGGESTION:
FLICK [Elite]: imagine flicking someones sword away, distracts em, go in for kill
25e (next attack) 60
Foe cannot block for 5-10 seconds
next 1-3 attacks you deal are critical hits



ok, since this guy and his armor or gonna look like a elementalist waving around a stick,
i suggest as a anotther atrib to counteract the low AL when he duel rings a wammo:


Parrying: for every atrib point in this atrribute, 3% more of the time you will block attacks

SKILL 2:
Tail in Legs:RUN AWAY!
5e (instant) (instant)

anytime your health reachs below (or something similiar to this) "x" you blind opponent for 10-15 sec
BUT YOU MUST THEN RUN until foe is out of aggro circle

ARENANET PLZ MAKE THIS PROFESSION!!!!!!!

Imbalance

Adds too much complication to the game. With all these conditions people are barely taking it. Adding 5 new "conditions" just for 1 class will be detrimental to the game and its population. I suggest you throw those out and just write out the effect (and make them different). People can take new skill effects but they can't take a global "condtion/effect" that is only available in 1 class.

Making something new just for 1 class is unacceptable for Anet. They will not throw a new NPC or NPC function out there to benefit one class. Because if they do, players will whine and complain that their fav profs need one too.
Binding is TOO GOOD, it's extra stats for being this class and paying money.

This will be anything but balance. Your class must have a drawback for doing something extraordinary. Assassin only get to use 1 weapon and has basically the armor of a caster (while being a frontline person, most of the time the first and only frontline attacker) for massive amount of damage from skills and dual attacks.

This character gets semi-benefits from dual attacks and dual wield weapons that have stats of their own. Say.. 2 swords. That's 2x the 20/20. With the special "binding" ability, this class will upset the already imbalanced game mechanics off scale.

I don't get how duelist dual wields in the first place. Usually they are envisioned to only have 1 rapier etc. Boost up the damage of this class and only give 1 handed weapon. If you want to make it more connected to what people think, make that offhands are restricted for this class. The damage boost and the above-mid (somewhere around Ranger) armor should balance this class out. The lack of 2ndary item with stats will be quite deep, so I say make the armor class lesser than those of a Ranger and boost up the rapier and other weapons' damage. The last thing you want is a somewhat tankish character with a lot of damage.

You might like Rikimaru's concept class of Duelist better.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3071828

but since I am a fissy guy, I will reply with some reason why I wrote it so.

Pose are not really a Condition. Think of them more as a position that people are in when in a fight, like you swing wide and become "Imbalance", or they counter your swing which leave your guard wide open. It is not like you are bleeding. In ways, they are more like Assassin's Lead-attack, off hand attack type of thing, design more to use as a combo. (but I want a more flexible combo of attack with this class) Also they last only for short term, (2 seconds was the first suggested value). With out pose, I feel they would be just a blend of swordmastery skills.



In regarding to the Duel Wield system.
I for one dislike some of the new-classes offer by A.net, thinking they are still not that orignal enough. Therefore, I hope to see something new.

Keep in mind that Dual wielding would not just benefit one class. Like all weapons, all class can wield such thing, just how efficent is the question. A Warrior can duel wield with 2 axe too, but with out having points in a Dual Wielding attribute, it would function more as a visual change, and still attack much like if he were with 1 weapon. However, should you have Fencer as a prim or 2nd class, you can gain better benefit from it.

I think it would be as similar to adding a new weapon type to the game.

And It is true that the duel wield can be made to be like the duel daggers (already pack into one), but I think that would just be too inflexable, in not able to choose what weapon you would like to dual wield.


1 draw back is you must put points into the attribute in order to gain extra advantage to it, as well as attribute into that weapon's attribute. Another, as said, is that you won't be able to equip a shield or off-hand item. They could be compareable to Hammer or Scythe.

(using a Assassin's armor is a poor example, as a Warrior/Assassin can also use dagger too)


Remember, you are not attacking with 2 swrod at the same time, but still one at the time. It is the 3rd strike that you will perform such dual attack, but than it depend on your attribute into dual attack mastery. On paper, you are suppose to get more damage, since you are sacrifsing your off-hand for it. Also the bonuse stats of the weapon are half.

But you did make a good point about it will benfit the rich a bit better (say in example of 2-green vs 2-regular). Hopefully that won't be too much of a factor in the scheme of things.


Well, it is always hard to persuade people to like or not like something. I respect what you like or not like, and will leave at that.


Thx for the review and bring out your concern. I would neve call this class perfect. As you got some good ideas, feel free to write up your own 1-hand Rapier class too.

Nice update on this concept, others werent as good as this one. I want know where u got those pictures, pretty cool looking. Id play this kind of class, kinda interesting and deep, like a mes. Nice job.

/signed

Thought you meant the binding would only work for this profession. However, Assassin still do not receive the choice of only wielding 1 dagger and a offhand/shield. I doubt most Assassins would want to though =/

Hammer and Scythe doesn't hit 2x in the time of 1.
Warrior/Assassin lack the energy and that's its drawback. It's like you can use Warrior/Ranger for an armored ranger (IDK why anyone would, but meh), energy will be a problem to balance it out.
The balance of GW can be set into something basic (with a lot of assumptions):
Armor, Energy, and Damage.
Warrior has high armor and high damage but low energy.
Elementalist has high damage and energy but low armor.
Assassin has VERY high damage, decent energy, and low armor.
etc.
I didn't see the armor >>
It's pretty much Ranger energy with Casterish armor, so it is actually less powerful than Assassin in terms of energy. I assume the weapons will have higher damage than daggers. Assassin has Critical Strike, however, so I think you should raise the armor a little bit.

I think the poses make this class very strong, so in the end it did all balance it out.
I do like the poses thing, but most people do not like to remember complicated stuff only for 1 class. I bet the Assassin combo thing pissed a lot of lazy people off. It is quite sad =/