I know that some people (Avarre) have very strong views on this but I wanted to compare them and get feedback from everyone.
I will be comparing at 16 point att lvl
SS
Affects: Target foe and all adjacent foes
Trigger: Attack or skill use
Cost: 15e
Cast: 2 sec
Cool: 10 sec
Duration: 21 sec
Single foe damage: 37 per hit, DoT 584 (assuming continuous attacks at 1.33 attacks per second)
Multi-foe damage: 37 per hit*(number of adjacent foes), DoT......lots... vs 2 foes: 1168, vs 3 foes: 1752, etc
Emp
Affects: Target foe
Trigger: Attack
Cost: 10e
Cast: 2 sec
Cool: 10 sec
Duration: 21 sec
Single foe damage: 31 per hit, DoT 489 (assuming continuous attacks at 1.33 attacks per second)
Multi-foe damage: none
The similarities:
Recharge
Cast time
Cooldown
Duration
The differences:
Elite (SS) vs. Non-elite (Emp)
Cost: SS is 5 more energy
Damage vs single foe: SS is 6 more per hit
Damage vs multiple foes: SS is infintitely better (literally).
Multiple hexed targets: If you take into consideration that after 10 seconds a second hex could be applied (empathy or ss) to a second foe the differences are staggeringly huge.
Against 3 foes the difference in damage for the first 10 seconds are 602 more damage with SS in the second 10 seconds the difference is 1204 more from SS.
Over the duration of the hex SS will deal ~1800 more damage than empathy (assuming one hex applied at 0 time and one applied at 10 sec). I know that this is over simplified, but the numbers are close to accurate (I did not take into account cast times in the DoT).
So, using SS, for an extra 5 energy and the use of an elite slot you will get an extra 285 dmg vs a single foe and an extra 1800 dmg against 3 foes over the 21 second duration.
This does not even take into account that a necor could use Awaken the Blood to boost duration to 22 seconds and dmg per hit to 41, or that SS triggers when a target atttacks OR uses a skill while empathy is atack only.
Is SS overpowered? Is Empathy underpowered? SS is basically, as Avarre (I think) said, "Empathy on Steroids" so why is it a Necor Curse? or reverse that, Empathy is basically a weak SS so why is it a Mesmer Domination spell?
Discuss.
EDIT:
To Add in Meteor Shower
Affects: Target Foes Location and all foes adjacent to that location - KD + dmg
Trigger: Being in or adjacent to that location
Cost:25e (exhastion causing)
Cast:5 sec
Cool:60 sec
Duration: 9 sec
Single foe damage: 119 dmg + KD every 3 sec, DoT: 357 dmg + 3 KD's
Multi-foe damage: 119 + KD every 3 sec*(number of foes in location/adjacent to location), vs 2 foes: 714 dmg +6 KD's, vs 3 foes: 1071 dmg + 9 KD's, etc
The value of KD is debatable, but is it worth the loss in dmg, exhaustion, cast time, AND recharge? If you echo/glyph your MS your KD's become much more valuable but is it worth the energy cost? A'Echo is 15e (could use glyph of lesser energy) + 1st MS at 25e causing exhaustion + 2nd MS (could use glyph of energy) = at a minimum 35 e with 25 of that causing exhaustion (I may have missed something there but I think the costs are correct), and could only be used in this way once every 60 seconds.
Spiteful Spirit Vs. Empathy
LouAl
Sergio Leone
I prefer SS. Maybe just because it's great for farming.
Apple
Insidious Parasite has essentially the same mechanic as both of these spells, except that it's damage is life-stealing, so i'd say that in essence, this type of spell is closer to the Curses line than the mesmer domination line.
dreamhunk
anything doing more damage than a fire class should be nerfed.
LouAl
I would always prefer SS for damage output, I think that is obvious.
Insidious Parasite seems to be like a necro skill should be, and it is about as powerful as you would expect a necro skill to be. The damage is less than empathy, but it is life stealing so it goes directly onto your health bar. All the life stealing spells cost a little more and damage a little less than their non-life stealing counterparts.
I am thinking that, although it is great for farming, why is SS so powerful and why is it a curse?
EDIT:
With all the E-Storage talk going on I decided to add in, just for comparison, one of the most widely used "big damage" elementalist spells - Meteor Shower
Insidious Parasite seems to be like a necro skill should be, and it is about as powerful as you would expect a necro skill to be. The damage is less than empathy, but it is life stealing so it goes directly onto your health bar. All the life stealing spells cost a little more and damage a little less than their non-life stealing counterparts.
I am thinking that, although it is great for farming, why is SS so powerful and why is it a curse?
EDIT:
With all the E-Storage talk going on I decided to add in, just for comparison, one of the most widely used "big damage" elementalist spells - Meteor Shower
Haggard
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamhunk
anything doing more damage than a fire class should be nerfed.
It doesnt always, for example if youre just using SS for round the house jobs, you may not even catch more than 1 guy with it and thry could die after just a couple of hits.
However, in a situation with multiple targets crowded around a tank (say a 55 or warrior stancer), it has massive, almost nuking effects.
However, in a situation with multiple targets crowded around a tank (say a 55 or warrior stancer), it has massive, almost nuking effects.
dreamhunk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggard
It doesnt always, for example if youre just using SS for round the house jobs, you may not even catch more than 1 guy with it and thry could die after just a couple of hits.
However, in a situation with multiple targets crowded around a tank (say a 55 or warrior stancer), it has massive, almost nuking effects. that is a problem it shouldnot nuke, damage belongs to the fire class that is why they have the heavy costing spells and extusation as well as weak armour.
However, in a situation with multiple targets crowded around a tank (say a 55 or warrior stancer), it has massive, almost nuking effects. that is a problem it shouldnot nuke, damage belongs to the fire class that is why they have the heavy costing spells and extusation as well as weak armour.
Mr Fizzle
As well as pvp wise Spiteful Spirit the hex can be removed PLUS whoever you did put it on could always stop attacking or position themselves away from their teammates.Fire nuking spells happen no matter what so Spiteful Spirit in my opinion is not over powered.Then again in PvE sometimes Id rather take a Ss necro with arcane echo over a nuker.But back to the point Ss is alot more powerful than empthamy definatly.But thats why its elite : ).
LouAl
The elite staus is worth that much extra damage?
Here is an example of 2 other spells 1 elite and one non-elite:
(again using Att level of 16)
Energy Tap
Cost: 5e
Cast: 3 sec
Cool: 25 sec
Target loses 7 energy, you gain 14 energy (net of 9e gain)
Energy Drain (elite)
Cost: 5e
Cast: 1 sec
Cool: 25 sec
Target foe loses 10 energy, you gain 20 energy (net 15e gain)
The difference of having the elite is faster cast, by 2 sec, and more energy gain, 6e more gained.
or these
Heal Other
Cost: 10e
Cast: .75 sec
Cool: 3 sec
Heals target other ally for 190 hlth
Word of Healing (elite)
Cost: 5e
Cast: .75 sec
Cool: 4 sec
Heals target other ally for 84 hlth, additional 106 if target is below 50% (total of 190)
the difference of going elite is 1 sec longer cooldown, 5e less to cast, and IF target is below 50% they heal the same otherwise it will heal for 106 less than the non-elite.
Here is an example of 2 other spells 1 elite and one non-elite:
(again using Att level of 16)
Energy Tap
Cost: 5e
Cast: 3 sec
Cool: 25 sec
Target loses 7 energy, you gain 14 energy (net of 9e gain)
Energy Drain (elite)
Cost: 5e
Cast: 1 sec
Cool: 25 sec
Target foe loses 10 energy, you gain 20 energy (net 15e gain)
The difference of having the elite is faster cast, by 2 sec, and more energy gain, 6e more gained.
or these
Heal Other
Cost: 10e
Cast: .75 sec
Cool: 3 sec
Heals target other ally for 190 hlth
Word of Healing (elite)
Cost: 5e
Cast: .75 sec
Cool: 4 sec
Heals target other ally for 84 hlth, additional 106 if target is below 50% (total of 190)
the difference of going elite is 1 sec longer cooldown, 5e less to cast, and IF target is below 50% they heal the same otherwise it will heal for 106 less than the non-elite.
HawkofStorms
Interesting way to look at it, but I really don't see how you can compare an AoE to a non AoE.
dreamhunk
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Interesting way to look at it, but I really don't see how you can compare an AoE to a non AoE.
I would still say it is a aera effect. if you are target more than one fow. ok say if the spell is in alcoation of some type, an aera. It would still be a aoe spell no matter what. however if the spell hit more than one person different space out location then that would not be aoe spell. I also think such a spell should be a high costing spell or a casters spell.
Sarah Pyers
I don't really understand what you are asking here. Almost all of the elite skills are just better versions/combinations of non-elite skills. You pick your elite based off of what skill in your build would be most beneficial to you in a stronger form. I know this isnt true to all elites, but you get my point. Besides that, empathy and SS are from two different classes...if im a mes/n im probably gonna go with empathy over SS unless its a farming situation where I know SS will do its damage no matter what
d3kst3r
SS for Heroes Ascent and against casters. Empathy for small smale battles against warriors and rangers.
Eaimirth Etaivella
Off topic but mesmers need some good aoe skills...that can be used by them for the highest effect.
(added so that it excludes visage)
(added so that it excludes visage)
Weeping Wind
I know SS/SV necro's have a couple of utility skills on their skill bar sometimes. So when say in UW they cast SS. Could they spam Empathy on the enemys aswell as SS and get double damage?
Just a thought.
Weeping
Just a thought.
Weeping
Xpl0iter
I had a thread over here a month or 2 back, Have a look at the arguments i had presented, + I am just going to start a new thread about the so called "AOE" issue.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=98545
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=98545
Josh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeping Wind
I know SS/SV necro's have a couple of utility skills on their skill bar sometimes. So when say in UW they cast SS. Could they spam Empathy on the enemys aswell as SS and get double damage?
Just a thought.
Weeping Find a Warrior or Ranger, cast on the same target:
Spiteful Spirit
Empathy
Insidious Parasite
^ Very painful. ^ Would hurt terribly if you was an Assassin.
Just a thought.
Weeping Find a Warrior or Ranger, cast on the same target:
Spiteful Spirit
Empathy
Insidious Parasite
^ Very painful. ^ Would hurt terribly if you was an Assassin.
Murder In China
Have Frenzy added in.
Hella Good
Lol... why would anyone compare SS and Empathy? if anything use both and stack em on top of each other. While you at it, toss in Insideous Parasite and type "laf." I mean really... these hexes are complimentory if anything, not like I'm gonna sweat which one to use.....
JR
Assuming you are talking in the context of PvP:
First up, you are using a Necro for your SS. One of the strongest points of Necros is they have access to one of the best energy management skills in the game without locking down their secondary: Offering of Blood. Sadly, SS is also an elite. A Necromancer without OoB loses a lot of it's ability to fill a support role, something necromancers are very good at.
Secondly, SS and Empathy both do the same thing, they stop a Warrior from using Frenzy. This does gimp their spike considerably, and it puts a bit more pressure on the monks, but it isn't really that powerfull. Certainly not worth losing your elite slot over.
So in short, in a Hex build that had to have a dom mesmer, I would run empathy. I would probably not run SS on the Necro, instead I would run OoB and be able to spam the standard hexes more. In a non hex build I would run neither, because it will be removed faster than you can say "Our Build
Sucks".
First up, you are using a Necro for your SS. One of the strongest points of Necros is they have access to one of the best energy management skills in the game without locking down their secondary: Offering of Blood. Sadly, SS is also an elite. A Necromancer without OoB loses a lot of it's ability to fill a support role, something necromancers are very good at.
Secondly, SS and Empathy both do the same thing, they stop a Warrior from using Frenzy. This does gimp their spike considerably, and it puts a bit more pressure on the monks, but it isn't really that powerfull. Certainly not worth losing your elite slot over.
So in short, in a Hex build that had to have a dom mesmer, I would run empathy. I would probably not run SS on the Necro, instead I would run OoB and be able to spam the standard hexes more. In a non hex build I would run neither, because it will be removed faster than you can say "Our Build
Sucks".
Peewee
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamhunk
anything doing more damage than a fire class should be nerfed.
So thats warriors, lightning, degeneration..... the list goes on and on and on.
Meteor shower is gaurenteed dmg, SS is not. Secondly it is KD, which is invaluable. SS can be removed *shock horror!* but is is fairly powerful, perhaps overpowered. Knock the recharge up a little, increase nrgt cost to 25, or drop dmg down a little, and its fine.
Meteor shower is gaurenteed dmg, SS is not. Secondly it is KD, which is invaluable. SS can be removed *shock horror!* but is is fairly powerful, perhaps overpowered. Knock the recharge up a little, increase nrgt cost to 25, or drop dmg down a little, and its fine.
JR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peewee
Meteor shower is gaurenteed dmg, SS is not.
Meteor Shower, and most Fire AoE skills are beaten by a simple but effective combination: Your W,A,S and D keys.
Pi_Numurian
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouAl
I know that some people (Avarre) have very strong views on this but I wanted to compare them and get feedback from everyone.
I will be comparing at 16 point att lvl
SS
Affects: Target foe and all adjacent foes
Trigger: Attack or skill use
Cost: 15e
Cast: 2 sec
Cool: 10 sec
Duration: 21 sec
Single foe damage: 37 per hit, DoT 584 (assuming continuous attacks at 1.33 attacks per second)
Multi-foe damage: 37 per hit*(number of adjacent foes), DoT......lots... vs 2 foes: 1168, vs 3 foes: 1752, etc
Emp
Affects: Target foe
Trigger: Attack
Cost: 10e
Cast: 2 sec
Cool: 10 sec
Duration: 21 sec
Single foe damage: 31 per hit, DoT 489 (assuming continuous attacks at 1.33 attacks per second)
Multi-foe damage: none
The similarities:
Recharge
Cast time
Cooldown
Duration
The differences:
Elite (SS) vs. Non-elite (Emp)
Cost: SS is 5 more energy
Damage vs single foe: SS is 6 more per hit
Damage vs multiple foes: SS is infintitely better (literally).
Multiple hexed targets: If you take into consideration that after 10 seconds a second hex could be applied (empathy or ss) to a second foe the differences are staggeringly huge.
Against 3 foes the difference in damage for the first 10 seconds are 602 more damage with SS in the second 10 seconds the difference is 1204 more from SS.
Over the duration of the hex SS will deal ~1800 more damage than empathy (assuming one hex applied at 0 time and one applied at 10 sec). I know that this is over simplified, but the numbers are close to accurate (I did not take into account cast times in the DoT).
So, using SS, for an extra 5 energy and the use of an elite slot you will get an extra 285 dmg vs a single foe and an extra 1800 dmg against 3 foes over the 21 second duration.
This does not even take into account that a necor could use Awaken the Blood to boost duration to 22 seconds and dmg per hit to 41, or that SS triggers when a target atttacks OR uses a skill while empathy is atack only.
Is SS overpowered? Is Empathy underpowered? SS is basically, as Avarre (I think) said, "Empathy on Steroids" so why is it a Necor Curse? or reverse that, Empathy is basically a weak SS so why is it a Mesmer Domination spell?
Discuss.
EDIT:
To Add in Meteor Shower
Affects: Target Foes Location and all foes adjacent to that location - KD + dmg
Trigger: Being in or adjacent to that location
Cost:25e (exhastion causing)
Cast:5 sec
Cool:60 sec
Duration: 9 sec
Single foe damage: 119 dmg + KD every 3 sec, DoT: 357 dmg + 3 KD's
Multi-foe damage: 119 + KD every 3 sec*(number of foes in location/adjacent to location), vs 2 foes: 714 dmg +6 KD's, vs 3 foes: 1071 dmg + 9 KD's, etc
The value of KD is debatable, but is it worth the loss in dmg, exhaustion, cast time, AND recharge? If you echo/glyph your MS your KD's become much more valuable but is it worth the energy cost? A'Echo is 15e (could use glyph of lesser energy) + 1st MS at 25e causing exhaustion + 2nd MS (could use glyph of energy) = at a minimum 35 e with 25 of that causing exhaustion (I may have missed something there but I think the costs are correct), and could only be used in this way once every 60 seconds. SS is better because Empathy is just like half of spiteful spirit
I will be comparing at 16 point att lvl
SS
Affects: Target foe and all adjacent foes
Trigger: Attack or skill use
Cost: 15e
Cast: 2 sec
Cool: 10 sec
Duration: 21 sec
Single foe damage: 37 per hit, DoT 584 (assuming continuous attacks at 1.33 attacks per second)
Multi-foe damage: 37 per hit*(number of adjacent foes), DoT......lots... vs 2 foes: 1168, vs 3 foes: 1752, etc
Emp
Affects: Target foe
Trigger: Attack
Cost: 10e
Cast: 2 sec
Cool: 10 sec
Duration: 21 sec
Single foe damage: 31 per hit, DoT 489 (assuming continuous attacks at 1.33 attacks per second)
Multi-foe damage: none
The similarities:
Recharge
Cast time
Cooldown
Duration
The differences:
Elite (SS) vs. Non-elite (Emp)
Cost: SS is 5 more energy
Damage vs single foe: SS is 6 more per hit
Damage vs multiple foes: SS is infintitely better (literally).
Multiple hexed targets: If you take into consideration that after 10 seconds a second hex could be applied (empathy or ss) to a second foe the differences are staggeringly huge.
Against 3 foes the difference in damage for the first 10 seconds are 602 more damage with SS in the second 10 seconds the difference is 1204 more from SS.
Over the duration of the hex SS will deal ~1800 more damage than empathy (assuming one hex applied at 0 time and one applied at 10 sec). I know that this is over simplified, but the numbers are close to accurate (I did not take into account cast times in the DoT).
So, using SS, for an extra 5 energy and the use of an elite slot you will get an extra 285 dmg vs a single foe and an extra 1800 dmg against 3 foes over the 21 second duration.
This does not even take into account that a necor could use Awaken the Blood to boost duration to 22 seconds and dmg per hit to 41, or that SS triggers when a target atttacks OR uses a skill while empathy is atack only.
Is SS overpowered? Is Empathy underpowered? SS is basically, as Avarre (I think) said, "Empathy on Steroids" so why is it a Necor Curse? or reverse that, Empathy is basically a weak SS so why is it a Mesmer Domination spell?
Discuss.
EDIT:
To Add in Meteor Shower
Affects: Target Foes Location and all foes adjacent to that location - KD + dmg
Trigger: Being in or adjacent to that location
Cost:25e (exhastion causing)
Cast:5 sec
Cool:60 sec
Duration: 9 sec
Single foe damage: 119 dmg + KD every 3 sec, DoT: 357 dmg + 3 KD's
Multi-foe damage: 119 + KD every 3 sec*(number of foes in location/adjacent to location), vs 2 foes: 714 dmg +6 KD's, vs 3 foes: 1071 dmg + 9 KD's, etc
The value of KD is debatable, but is it worth the loss in dmg, exhaustion, cast time, AND recharge? If you echo/glyph your MS your KD's become much more valuable but is it worth the energy cost? A'Echo is 15e (could use glyph of lesser energy) + 1st MS at 25e causing exhaustion + 2nd MS (could use glyph of energy) = at a minimum 35 e with 25 of that causing exhaustion (I may have missed something there but I think the costs are correct), and could only be used in this way once every 60 seconds. SS is better because Empathy is just like half of spiteful spirit
LightningHell
No ****, but SS is Necro and Elite, which actually...balances out.
bu11z3y3
the biggest difference in my opinion is that SS also triggers with spells, wich empathy doesnt do...
wich basically means SS can be more of an all round curse that can, for example, dmg warriors or deal with the fast healing of a monk.
wich basically means SS can be more of an all round curse that can, for example, dmg warriors or deal with the fast healing of a monk.
Sofia Sofia Sofia
I think the balance between the two spell is perfect.
Empathy is a nice spell to casually toss around to mess with warriors, but SS is a more serious thing you really have to watch for.
Warriors almost always go for targets in pairs or even more. So the surround damage comes in handy. Then they hit Frenzy, and then the SS is devastating. Some warriors attack through it cause they either trust their monks or they just don't notice things.
Basically, SS is a role, a job, Empathy is part of something bigger than itself, so it's not an elite.
Empathy is a nice spell to casually toss around to mess with warriors, but SS is a more serious thing you really have to watch for.
Warriors almost always go for targets in pairs or even more. So the surround damage comes in handy. Then they hit Frenzy, and then the SS is devastating. Some warriors attack through it cause they either trust their monks or they just don't notice things.
Basically, SS is a role, a job, Empathy is part of something bigger than itself, so it's not an elite.
LouAl
I haven't looked in here for a while...
I guess the point I was trying to make is that Empathy and SS cost almost the same, have the same cast times, and have the same recharge (and yes I know they are from different professions...), but SS for 5e more will do an outrageous amount of damage when compared to its weak little brother(empathy). Also, a target under empathy can still cast while a target under SS cannot attack or use a skill...so they can't do anything but stand or run unless they want to take damage.
@ sofia x3
Why is that a good balance? Aren't you saying that they are balance well because you don't really have to watch out for Empathy (more casual) where as you don't want to mess around with SS (more serious).
The difference I am seeing is that for 10e you can hex 1 warrior with empathy and hurt that warrior only but for 15e you can hex 1 warrior with SS and it will hurt any ally near that warrior.
So....the elite status and extra 5e of SS is worth more damage per activation and damage to all adjacent allies of that foe
It seems out of balance to me. The examples I gave of other Elite vs non-elite skills I think illustrate this well (what does it matter if they are from different professions, they are essentially the same skill except that one is vastly more powerful than the other)
I guess the point I was trying to make is that Empathy and SS cost almost the same, have the same cast times, and have the same recharge (and yes I know they are from different professions...), but SS for 5e more will do an outrageous amount of damage when compared to its weak little brother(empathy). Also, a target under empathy can still cast while a target under SS cannot attack or use a skill...so they can't do anything but stand or run unless they want to take damage.
@ sofia x3
Why is that a good balance? Aren't you saying that they are balance well because you don't really have to watch out for Empathy (more casual) where as you don't want to mess around with SS (more serious).
The difference I am seeing is that for 10e you can hex 1 warrior with empathy and hurt that warrior only but for 15e you can hex 1 warrior with SS and it will hurt any ally near that warrior.
So....the elite status and extra 5e of SS is worth more damage per activation and damage to all adjacent allies of that foe
It seems out of balance to me. The examples I gave of other Elite vs non-elite skills I think illustrate this well (what does it matter if they are from different professions, they are essentially the same skill except that one is vastly more powerful than the other)
JR
Spitefull Spirit on a caster is really not worth the effort. Generally they aren't going to be casting enough to make it do worthwhile damage.
Cirian
For me as a necro and a mesmer player, I find the single target nature and recharge times on the mesmer skills the most frustrating.
Empathy is a great example of a hex that could be 5e and 5s recharge, and suddenly it could be trivial to hex multiple attackers. In this respect it could be compared to Enfeeble, and work well as a Parasitic Bond-like cover hex or as a cheap hex to pair with Shatter Delusions.
Empathy is a great example of a hex that could be 5e and 5s recharge, and suddenly it could be trivial to hex multiple attackers. In this respect it could be compared to Enfeeble, and work well as a Parasitic Bond-like cover hex or as a cheap hex to pair with Shatter Delusions.
LouAl
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR-
Not really my point though because empathy is fairly useless on most caster types (even more so than SS).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cirian
For me as a necro and a mesmer player, I find the single target nature and recharge times on the mesmer skills the most frustrating.
Empathy is a great example of a hex that could be 5e and 5s recharge, and suddenly it could be trivial to hex multiple attackers. In this respect it could be compared to Enfeeble, and work well as a Parasitic Bond-like cover hex or as a cheap hex to pair with Shatter Delusions. It would make more sense to me if Empathy cost less (although it already does a hefty amount of damage per energy used, even if it is conditional) or if SS cost more/had a longer recharge. I don't like to be the one who whips out the nerf bat, but it seems like the skill SS is quite overpowered (and probably linked to the wrong attribute, b ut that is an entirely different discussion).
What if...
Really I don't see SS as a problem for mesmers either, it's just a matter of changing one's playing style to adapt to the situation. If one was to be caught with SS the obvious solution is the find the SS'er and kite randomly until it starts to wear off (this will also help you to avoid opportunistic warriors and rangers). Wait for the necro to try and re-appy it an then diversion (if you fast casting is high enough) or interupt it and bother him for a while. The only players who might have problems with SS are E-denial/Surger Mesmers who may not have a way to shut down the spell.
I realize this stratergy can't exist in a vacuum so if the team decides to SS you, it's probably because you're about to take a lot of damage and they don't want you defending/interrupting, but even then what's a 37-41 hit when compared to a 130 dmg hit from an air elementalist? I see SS more a mind-game skill than an actual threat to Mesmers, who really shouldn't be letting things like SS through anyway, but that's my opinion.
Pi_Numurian
The way I see it. Empathy is kind of like the first step of SS
Mister Muhkuh
ss is an elite and i think elites should have some kind of advantage to non-elite skills...
i think ss is very good for pve(fow- book trick, uw,sf- gear or keg trick), empathy maybe for pvp every1 has to decide for himself whether to use empathy or ss(i prefer ss, even in pvp, coz i dont really need OoB coz i always have 8+ sould reaping)
Anarki
You can't really compare SS to Empathy, because as previously said SS is AoE plus it triggers whenever foe does something, including using skills, Empathy works only against enemies that attack with their weapon.
Xpl0iter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Muhkuh
ss is an elite and i think elites should have some kind of advantage to non-elite skills...
i think ss is very good for pve(fow- book trick, uw,sf- gear or keg trick), empathy maybe for pvp every1 has to decide for himself whether to use empathy or ss(i prefer ss, even in pvp, coz i dont really need OoB coz i always have 8+ sould reaping) *chuckles at "some kind of advantage" empathy has a damage which is nothing compared to that of an SS. People use Empathy only if they find some other elite needed to suppor ttheir build, mind you, includes the kind of damage they do. what i mean by "the kind of damage" is that, the damage could be spike, or could be a spam of elites along with regular skills supporting the build. Be that a player build, or a team build. SS *is* for a fact, over powered. but like the person who mentioned this at first place said "another discussion thread would be suitable", i will end my post here. Regardz An Elementalist.
Murder In China
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi_Numurian
The way I see it. Empathy is kind of like the first step of SS
There's a huge gapping hole between Empathy and Spiteful Spirit =/
Angel Develin
SS=Elite
Empathy=common Energy surge =Elite  I think SS and ES (energy surge) are at the same lvl. the dmg they do is very high, I think Energy surge is a bit over powerd if used with Arcane Echo. At max they take (if used at the same time) 22-24 energy and do more then 180 dmg very fast, this is only from 1 player :O what if 2 players use it at the same target??? OMG and use Mind Wrack :S ouch......ouch
Xpl0iter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Develin
SS=Elite
Empathy=common Energy surge =Elite I think SS and ES (energy surge) are at the same lvl. the dmg they do is very high, I think Energy surge is a bit over powerd if used with Arcane Echo. At max they take (if used at the same time) 22-24 energy and do more then 180 dmg very fast, this is only from 1 player :O what if 2 players use it at the same target??? OMG and use Mind Wrack :S ouch......ouch heh let me see, you think e-surge is more powerful than SS? sure, against one person, i might agree, but dude, look at SS compared to Empathy. Empathy triggers with an attack, not a spell, and definetly not an area damage. SS, oh well, talk about being overpowered with arcane echo and SS being used. Oh, was it a necro who was bragging to me about doing more damage in-game with SS when compared to my entire skill set? ah well. Best skill for eles elite are not the damage ones, but the energy management ones. I mean seriously, who would keep a damaging elite for ele attributes over energy management when we have such a high energy usage at all times? Pushed down to regular skills, and depending on not elites to damage is pathetic. Ether prodigy and ele attune, one gives exhaustion, and one has a huge recharge time. big deal. SS is spamable as well as empathy, but SS gets triggered with no matter what you do while damaging foes adjacent to you. now "that's" overpowered compared to empathy and definetly better than esurge for pve. Oh, and e-surge spiking is quite known for its damaging capabilities. an extremely good elite available to mesmers. Regardz An Elementalist.
Cirian
Energy Surge isn't nearly as good in PvE, but then SS isn't what I'd call great in PvP either...
SS rocks in PvE because it's aoe AND triggers off so much as a fart... I mean, even if it didn't trigger off attacks, it would still trigger on using any skill - be that a shout, spell, stance, signet, glyph... anything! Mobs are just too dumb to know better, unlike humans. Well, most humans... Mesmers probably just see SS as a great opportunity to do 126 chaos damage with a smartly placed Shatter Hex bomb 
Ention
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirian
Energy Surge isn't nearly as good in PvE, but then SS isn't what I'd call great in PvP either...
SS rocks in PvE because it's aoe AND triggers off so much as a fart... I mean, even if it didn't trigger off attacks, it would still trigger on using any skill - be that a shout, spell, stance, signet, glyph... anything! Mobs are just too dumb to know better, unlike humans. Well, most humans... Mesmers probably just see SS as a great opportunity to do 126 chaos damage with a smartly placed Shatter Hex bomb
Empathy+Backfire+SS TOUCH ME AND YOU DIE!  oucheez...and also, not only is the SS powerful, but incredibly fun, in my experiences.
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