March 14 - Gamespy Article

The PvE portion of GW rarely requires anything deeper than a "basic understanding of the game mechanics," though. Most of PvE is not challenging the minds of anybody, nor is it requiring players to use their minds. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to actually be able to have meaning in PvE, or to have what I do in PvE to have meaning.

That's not to say PvP is more meaningful, but the "basic understanding of the game mechanics" is what ultimately prompted me and a few of my buddies to leave our old guild to form a new one. What we wanted to do was build discussion, battle strategy, tactics, on-the-fly adaptation. And that's something we just couldn't get with the casual "whatever happens" philosophy of an inactive and "ploddy" PvE guild.

So I don't know what you're getting at. In the "RPG" portion of Guild Wars, the PvE portion, you don't need to outsmart the computer to beat them. 90% of the time, it's just complete brute force. There's very little hex removal, enchant removal, condition removal, strategic positioning, etc, when it comes to what the A.I. is doing.

Using Necros, Mesmers and Rangers certainly makes the process smoother, but there is a general reason why most PUGs can exist with only Eles, Warriors, and Monks: the monsters in PvE are pretty damned stupid, and outsmarting them (and for that matter, outplaying them) is not only unnecessary, it's impossible. To outsmart something, there has to be some sort of challenging intellect in the first place, and largely...you don't have that in PvE. There are more wars of attrition than strategy.

that is reason you have a hard time understanding me. It is ok because that is who you are. But to other rpg players they under stand this very well.

Rpg is not just mecanhics.

anyways I am a Hybrid person to, I play 60-65% PvE and 35-40% PvP, thats one of the things why I love this game, because you can do alot of different things.

Offcourse after a year playing you've seen kinda everything but with factions this whole gaming experience will come back

uhh, that's what I said it was. I'll just look at this post and say it again...
"3x4x4 PvP, only available to PvE toonz will st the borders". Yea, PvP in which PvE plays in. When I state PvP, I'm not talking about HoH or GvG type games styles, I'm talking about players playing against players. Whether that's for points or whatever.
Challenge Missions? heh, listen to the interview again. He says that players will be competing for score. The score, in the end, is against other players. Just like an e-sports game. Scoring is against other players, that's not a grasp at something, that's just what it is. PvP with score vs direct kills.
Competitive Missions? More PvP. No matter the spin on it, it's players vs players.

Saying that is just what no one wants to hear, so it "offends" people. It is PvP based and in that fact, it's really good. One thing that keeps being said in your post is that PvP made for PvE... uhh, yea, PvP is still PvP. Whether it's a deathmatch, CTF, Domination, Assult, Last Man standing or whatever, it's still PvP.

The entire reward system is to reward those playing PvP and PvP mini games. The Elite Missions are the rewards for PvE for playing PvP. That's the bait, or carrot if you will.

I didn't build the game, so I imposed no limitations at all. Those designs were in place before I learned about it. I was given no work around or way to truely opt out of the conflict. I do not enjoy PvP in any of it's forms, so I simply am opting out of purchasing the game.
You are right about the exclusive rewards, but the rewards for playing the game I bought in the manner I wish to play it, is not available. Not a bad thing, it just means there's nothing there for me to play if I purchased it.

My guild and yours (if your in one) see this very very differently. We all think the ladder and scoring system is the dumbest thing to hit a RPG in a very long time. We could really care less about someone "top" score. I also think I was 12 years old playing Pacman when score was anything at all of interest to me. My opinion? Yep. That's why I am not purchasing the game.

Uhh, right. What I said was, Factions is PvP based. There's new PvE content sprinkled on top to maintain sales, obviously. PvEers playing PvP is still PvP gaming. If some PvEers enjoy both, then this game will be awesome.

PvP is forced on PvE on so many ways it's crazy. Pharalon even mentioned it many times in his post. PvP build special for PvE players?
It sounds as if people are assuming that some PvEers just don't want to compete against the seasoned PvP players. And while that might be true in some cases, I think the point is being missed all together. Players vs players is a hurried type game experience. Look at all the mission types in Factions. They are all about beating the other team, beating your own score so that you best the other players... rushed. I'm rushed all day, I want to log on and relax. More in a second....

Therefore and based on the information that is there, I find the PvE content, the REAL PvE, content to be lacking and not worth $50. $20, maybe, but not $50. People who value common sence and not wishing to go with the crowd should also try the preview weekend and make a choice based on what they find.
I think Factions is a near perfect game for what it does. I mean, seriously, step back and look at it for what it is. Not through fanboy or haters eyes, really look at it. It's utter perfection in all it does.
People who enjoy PvE and PvP are going to love this. It's simply awesome. It does exactly what the devs said it would do, bring those that enjoy PvE and PvP closer. PvP is getting some much needed additions. Faction points aid in the slowing of Faction Zerging/Switching - this makes working with a faction worth the time and effort. I mean, I'm amazed at the amount of work and thought that went into it.
For me, and those like me though, that really despise the rushed feel of PvP and like it to having a cavity or root canal, will probably not enjoy the game. The interview also showed us that there was more content in a smaller area. This means to me, that you will gain level 20 faster and be thrust into the war. Exactly the feel the devs wanted I'm sure. The whole game will be rushed through to get you into the competition.
That's why I am opting out, and I only mention I am opting out as to show that I am not interested in PvP content.
I find that many posts I have made on this topic are considered to be knocking Anet. It is far from the truth though. I stated I feel shafted by the design, but that's not Anets fault. They said from the start what Factions was, they said how it would be. They said it would be about a conflict and players would take place in the conflict. I had held up hope that it would be less PvP and more PvE, and the conflict would be more story based rather than actual conflict... but that is my own fault. I could go back as far as the CGW article and point to page 64 where Flannan was asked about how PvEers would like the new game mechanic. CGW asking shows there was questions and concerns about it even then. When I simply state back what Anet claimed Factions was, some people don't like what they are hearing and feel they should defend Anet. No defense on them is needed. They made the game they said they would, and they did it well. Most game companies claim to make a game that does something, and they fall far short of it. Anet, pulled off what they said they would.

Well said, WasAGuest. I understand now where you're coming from.

Ummm...RPG means "roleplaying game", a game can be cooperative or competitive--it is defined by multiple players making strategic decisions which determine an outcome (at least that is vaguely how game theory defines it). "Nature" can be considered a player. The fact that a game is an RPG (broadly speaking a game where you play a role and develop a character) does not in itself say anything about the nature of your opponent (AI or real person) or the nature of the game (Competitive, Cooperative or Both). Guild Wars involves RP elements, Cooperative elements, Competitive elements, AI elements and PvP elements. The fact that players of "traditional RPGs" have focused on "men against nature" (which is a form of mixed competition and cooperation) does not invalidate the other forms of RPGing.

Factions will enhance Roleplaying for within PvP without reducing the amount of Roleplaying in the PvE elements. So as a whole, Factions will be a better RPG. Factions is also rumored to have more quest content and more difficult areas, so the level of competition in PvE will increase. The game should be more emersive which is currently a weakness.

The people "screwed" are those whole liked easy, repetitive content (there will be less of this in Factions) and people who like a wide open structure (which is expected since Prophecies never had a wide open structure). People who like easy repetitive content will get some more Prophecies like grind, but not as much. Your open structure RPGers will either embrace the Factions story or hate it. I for one thought the Prophecies story was shallow and linear, and don't understand all of its fans.

I agree with the "pace of the game" point. It looks like there will be more fast paced content. I also agree that the game must be balanced with some slower paced content since even hardcore PvPers like to take a night off to relax a bit (thus the smurfs). I find RA to be rather slow and mindless myself. If there is insufficient PvE content for players like Guest, that would be a shame. while the new mechanics focus on PvP it is hard to judge the totality of the product before it's release. The PvE areas should be more interesting. It is not fair to say content is simply sprinked on top since there will be equivalent numbers of skills to unlock and the like. In order to support the GW experinece there must be significant PvE elements. New interesting monster balance has been a major focus of the game which has gotten less press. Until we actually see the finished product, it will be hard to get a good measure of relative value for PvE players. What is abundantly clear is that the game is a winner for your RPG(PvE/PvP) players and casual PvPers.

I'd urge the PvE-only crowd to wait for release and read the reviews before exiting the game.

After reading most of this... I have come to the following conclusion that I will be spending MOST of my factions time in Prophecies...

but being optomistic and everything else... I'll wait till the release to really see whats going on.

Oh, what the heck - one more round. I don't remember exactly why I mentioned this, but I believe it was part of a general statement in regards to the percentage of content that is accessable at any one time while in the game. I didn't mean for it to relate directly to the Faction borders, but only in the broader sense of being in addition to not being able to access 100% of the content when your Faction doesn't control certain areas.



Yeah, that would be great if I could forsee when America would have favor. The times I have to dedicate more than a few minutes to account maintance or checking for updates or favor, does not change, so I have to plan my game time around those larger bulks that I have during the week. I haven't logged in yet for tonight's journey, but let's say America had favor when I was on-line this morning, that doesn't mean we will still have favor when I head in game in a few minutes. I might be able to log back on for 10 minutes tomorrow moring, and find America has favor once again, but that doesn't help me now when I have enough time to do the lengthy stuff.



I can see I'm not getting my point across totally here. It's not that each character would be confined to a lone instance based on how they went through the game, but work more like the districts do now.

Even now, if you are in Yak's Bend District 1, you can't form a party or interact with any character who is not in that district (aside from using the chat option). If your guild mate was in District 2, you would have to zone to that district (or he to yours) in order to form a party, trade items, etc. The Dynamic system I am talking about would work the same way. Once a character completes the Frost Gate mission, whenever he travels back to Ascalon, he would be visiting the "new" series of districts in which the game world in that area has now changed to reflect the fact that Rurik is dead and many refugees have fled to Kryta. Now he wouldn't be alone, because anyone who has completed FG would likewise be zoned to those same new districts. So one player can play through all of the Ascalon areas, complete FG, then return to a whole new experience in that same area. Now, another player can just skip over everything in Ascalon, complete FG, then return to be in the same place as the previous player.

So yes, if you completed FG, but your guildmate has not, your two characters would not be able to interact outside of chatting, just like being in different districts or towns now, but when your mate completes the mission, then you can zone to the same "updated" district in order to party up. These "updated" areas would not have to be written for every quest or mission, but only for the main plot twists and area shifts. So essentially, there would only need to be code for two different versions of Ascalon - the one as it is right now, and one to reflect the changes after the Northern Shiverpeaks area. This concept would just need to be carried over with the other major stepping stones throughout the game.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

PS:
That was exactly my point in a previous post about increasing the AI to make it more dynamic and human like. With a better AI to compete against, it would make getting through most areas in PvE more interesting and challenging, and would even encourage revisiting areas for other than farming because the battles would rarely play out the same way as they do now.

I glade you under stand me on this one, not alot of players do. I think what would help GW become more RPG based is add choice to the game. Yes more free structure. Meaning add creatures that are imposible to kill. Make so that you think about how to beat the monster with out hack and slash. There needs to be more of rpg elements in it to make a RPG. Add some fun thinking stuff where groups have slove a puzzle to open a door. Add everything you can think about in an adventure would have. Make more group interaction with content. Meaning make it so people have make group choices. As well as have each player how she or he has played effect the group.

As for people saying they play pvp/pve, Unreal tourment has a pve. It doen't make it an RPG. I still think there is still alot of players who still don't understand.

I really don't see how rpg can become compative, but it remains to be seen. I am not really under standing you when say elements. what kind of elements are talking about? I also the think that pvp and rpg shouldn't affect rpg of the game.

I would also say that there things Rpg players want that pvp don't. One doesnot have to look far on foums and other fourms to see that. I also think pvp should be a choice not force. How meny people here want a compitive game. how meny people want to be competive is what anetshould be asking.

But how a profession plays doesn't relate to the Favor system. Your comments on the character slots thing don't relate at all to the Favor system. Thus, you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place in this thread. lol

Is it really that difficult to see patterns, or at least trends?

And plus, this is irrelevant to Factions anyway, like I've been saying all along, because there are only going to be two "regions" in Factions, so the "party lines," as it were, aren't going to be so unpredictable. It's not going to be A, B, C, D, and E going at it. It'll only be A and B going at it.

Then what's the point of playing online? If there's going to be a chance (a damn good chance, I think) that guildies won't be able to group with each other due to some inane and absurd dynamic adventure system...why should they even bother playing in the first place? You want this system to enable freedom for the players, correct? Play the story how they want to, and not get penalized for it.

But what you're not realizing, I think, is that you're not enabling player freedom at all. If anything, you're restricting their freedoms. A friend of theirs skipped the Northern Shiverpeaks, and went straight into Maguuma, while they got a run down to Drok, and already beat the game. But under a dynamic system, if they wanted to group, they'd be shit out of luck.

What kind of message would you be sending there? "Oh well, too bad. You should have thought about that before. If you want to play together, you both have to play the game exactly the same way with brand-new characters."

Freedom? No. It's not freedom.

P.S.

Yeah, I think the A.I. still needs to get beefed up a lot. That's why I'm saying that it doesn't take very much brainpower now to steamroll through PvE in its current state. And people are getting offended by me saying that, but it's the God-honest truth. lol. PvE, in its current form, requires very little actual skill. I'm not saying that from lack of experience, either, you know? I've been through the thing on half a dozen characters, and beaten every mission at least once. I've gone through Thunderhead Keep more than once, because it's so unbelievably easy with a half-competent PUG.

But I don't think shoving in the dynamic plot system you're suggesting will help that, if that's what you're getting at.

I'm not really sure I understand the logic behind saying that as soon as any competition becomes involved in a PvE map, it becomes PvP. Is Elona Reach not a PvE map? There are exterior constraints on that map (a timer set by the developers), which turns it into a time based competition set by the developers. Challenge maps sound the same except the "timer" (high score, whatever the mechanic will be) is set by other players, not the developers. In fact, they sound even less "competitive" than Elona Reach, in that you don't fail the mission if you don't beat that benchmark score. You just get a lower score. Even if you're totally uninterested in the score you'll get, I don't see why you can't just run the mission as a standard PvE map, and enjoy it without worrying about anyone else. If you really believe that PvE maps where you compete against other PvEers are PvP maps, I don't think this discussion is going to get very far at all.

I think if you believe that, you'll be missing out. I haven't seen any indications that there will be less pure PvE content in Factions than there was in Prophecies. I certainly wouldn't refer to it as "sprinkled on top".

I really dont like the idea of top guilds controlling stuff. Im not in a top ranked guild so i will never have this option available to me. I would like all of the games content to be openly available to everyone. Hmmm just thinkin bout 12v12 and how many minions could be raised that would be absolutely mental.

No, Elona Reach is not PvP. There is one team -- MY team. Success or failure is determined strictly by our tactics and how we do. There is absolutely no competition with another team of human players involved in whether we succeed or not.

It is bad other people not playing with me/on my team are affecting my gameplay. That's one of the reasons I chose Guild Wars -- that it was 100% instanced; that PvP was entirely separated from the game content; that I could play the game without dealing with people who devote too much to it/are obnoxious/grief-causing.

I play more PvE then I do PvP, so I’m looking forward to Factions and the way the game mechanics are set up. It will be interesting seeing how everything will work and work together. Since this is a beta event there’s still room for improvement till the game is released.

Well, being able to see trends and being able to use those trends are different things. In reality, my "bulk" times to play are Tuesdays, Wed nights, and every other weekend. Now if the trend is that America usually has favor on Mondays, Wed. mornings, and every other weekedn opposite mine, that doesn't do me a whole lot of good if I can't be in game long enough during those times. That is my worry with the Factions system. Certainly it looks like it should be better than favor, but until the rubber meets the road, we don't really know if it will truly end up that way or not. I just don't want to reach the point in the game where I want to do the elite stuff only to have my Faction not have the favor when I have the hours to spend going through those missions.



Again, missing my point slightly. It's not that the FG mission is the sole determiner of the new districts, but any point beyond that area in the storyline. Even with your friend skipping over the N Shiv area, the fact that he went to areas that fall into place in the point of the story following Rurik's death would trigger the new code. It doesn't matter that he did not do the FG mission, it matters that he reached a point in the storyline where Rurik was killed - he just didn't see it happen. In this way, someone could run through the storyline chronologically, doing every possible mission and quest, complete the end game, and return to the "second" Ascalon. Now, his friend fresh out of Pre-Sear gets a run to Droks and completes the end game - he does nothing in between - and by doing so he will still end up in the same "second" Ascalon.


I don't get that either. Even Thom said (and many others as well) that the storyline ain't the greatest. The AI barely qualifies as such, and the static nature of the game world make rerunning the early missions and areas quite the bore. Any PvEer should be able to see that. This is the reason more dynamic games like Oblivion and Gothic 3 are hottly anticipated - I just hope that kind of dynamic (yet slightly structered) environment makes its way into the free fantasy MMO scene. Certainly I haven't done the best job of describing how it would work - it was just something I threw out there as an example, but I am sure that with enough time and the proper knowledge, the system can be made to work in some reasonable fashion

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Do you really believe the other players are going to have such a direct impact on your success? You're nuking the computer, for crying out loud. For such an experienced PvE player, you should have no problem with that, regardless of who may or may not be doing the same thing you are.

With only two sides going at it in Factions, with multiple teams fighting for one of two sides, don't you agree that it's silly as hell to base the anti-Factions argument on the problems with the multiple-side Favor system of Prophecies?

I know that the FG mission wouldn't be the sole determiner of the new districts. That's why I brought up D'Alessio Seaboard. That's why Sanctum Cay would be preposterous. There's dynamic stuff going on right now. A player who got a run to Southern Shiverpeaks, for example, can fight Titans if a fully played character has Defend Droknar's Forge, but that's more a glitch with the quest system than anything else, and a glitch that should be corrected eventually. Perhaps if it's something as simple as those Titans don't spawn when everyone in the party doesn't have the quest.

Exactly why I don't understand why PvErs get upset with me when I describe PvE's current state.

Also, the trick to improving PvE is not to introduce dynamic environments in the sense that you're suggesting. The trick to improving PvE is to make it challenging, or give players options for mission difficulties. Like level 24 Charr in the Fort Ranik mission. Stuff like that. Basically an arcade mode, rather than "new plotline!!" mode.

"Do you really believe the other players are going to have such a direct impact on your success? You're nuking the computer, for crying out loud. For such an experienced PvE player, you should have no problem with that, regardless of who may or may not be doing the same thing you are."

But never possibly nearly as well as the other teams who are just doing the mission over and over again to affect borders/control and have time to practice every day doing so and continually refer to strategy guides and whatnot rather than just experiencing the game and going at it whenever you have a few horus.

But that's not something from the PvP/PvE dichotomy. Dedication to playtime and practice, etc, is not something exclusive to one side or the other. There are casual PvPers, who play PvP for fun, instead of winning. And there are disturbingly dedicated PvErs, who play more to "pwn" others...that "HAH I have better stuff than you" or "My build for THK is better than yours" or "I can do X amount of things solo...can you?" mentality.

Sure, there may be casual PvP players and dedicated PvE players... But when PvE becomes PvP because it's competitive, you have to be a dedicated player in order to be able to play the game, and that's just not right, or what the game set out to do.

Which is exactly the same as challenge missions. Except you get given a score at the end, which has absolutely no effect on your gameplay whatsoever, unless you and the people you play with actually care about that score.

Does it matter that you're not doing it as well as others? Aren't you just doing that mission to "experience the game". If that's truely the case, shouldn't you be able to do a challenge mission when you want and not worry about your score, or a competition mission and not worry about beating the other team and just nuke the hell out of the NPCs?

Do you believe you have to be dedicated to PvE to play the game? Have you never timed yourself to see how fast you could complete the Ascension trials in Crystal Desert? Have you never tried speed runs? Have you never compared completion rates with your friends or guildies? Have you never had the urge to see which of your friends could do something in PvE the most efficiently?

Dedication is dedication. It doesn't change between PvP and PvE, and it sure as hell doesn't change in PvPvE. You have to be dedicated to winning in PvE, correct? Why can't you be dedicated to winning in PvPvE? Especially when you're obliterating computer players still?

I find it hard to believe anyone has never had any kind of competitive streak or dedication to anything in an online game.

rpg players are not out to compete. When you are talking about competitive your talking a sport. Your talking about braging rights and EGOs. There is alot of people who are not into that. Look at emotes has done to HA. it is because of EGOs HA is dead. There is people who will have nothing to do with competeing. You have a mind set of pvp player not an rpg player.

PVP is Pvp, Rpg is not about pvp it is about life.

Well yeah, that could be an option. The tough thing here is to use GW as an example of what I am talking about. Certainly the system would not work for the game as it is now, but had the system been developed as the main mechanic from the very beginning, I think it could be a workable one.

I mean really, wouldn't it be interesting to play FG, then replay it with a totally different goal in mind, such as revenge killing the dwarf that axed Rurik? Limits to how many different instances of the areas would naturally have to be imposed to indeed avoid that trainwreck you mentioned. But let's say three instances of FG would be reasonable - the current one, then the revenge one I just mentioned. The third one could potentially be one in which players can choose a PvP arena instance that takes place in that area of the map or choose a PvE instance used strictly for fighting monsters and farming (and with a potentially better AI, make for repeating this third and final instance a lot less tedious than farming tends to be now).

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

No to all of that for me, doing things like that is too much like number-crunching for my taste. If I wanted to number-crunch then I'd play WoW or a game of that ilk.

If I want to spend hours just wandering about then I will, I find it fun. It's not as if I'm going to get a burning urge to do pvp (although this was Anet's intention - hey look, more number-crunching - yay!) as soon as I finish the story is it ?

The trick of improving PvE is to make it more interesting and fun. For me that does not include competitive missions - end of story. I'd rather do THK 5 times in a row than have to do Aurora Glade ONCE - why do you think they made the entire Magumaa section (bar Sanctum) missable anyway ?

I've never done any of the above. They all sound quite silly to me.

Nope, none of those ever crossed my mind. My friends and I usually build our characters to compliment each other. We find it more fun that way. Then we play in a relaxed semi-silly entertaining style. Going into an arena type game enviroment wouldn't fit our "relaxed" play style.

That's just the Cooperative players (pure PvE) mind set. Competition vs others is flat out not on our minds. Now years ago, before my major burn out on competitive games Quake II and then Quake III. But since then, I've pretty much grown out of that style of play. Meaning I've grown away from it, not meaning an age thing there.

Here's a thought; you get ready to go see a movie. You and your friends/family plan on Thursday to go see the show on Saturday. When you all get there, the show is not playing for whatever reason. Are you then irritated, frustrated, disappointed or happy about it?
This is the question I saw in general chat the other day in reference to the Favor and future Factions system. The players' answers were interesting. A couple didn't catch the obvious link behind the question and answered that they would be really p'd off. Another person said he saw the point and agreed, where as before he didn't. The last couple said they wouldn't really care, since they were now with friends, they were going to go get drunk. (That one was the funniest).
Anyway, since that question was on topic for here, I was curious what others here would say: Myself, I would leave frustrated - as you could probably already have guessed.

Okay, well what about just going a bit bloodthirsty during a mission?

None of you ever get any type of adrenaline rush when you're say...holding off the East entrance in THK by yourself for a solid 10 or 15 minutes during the assault waves?

Or what about Thirsty River? Do you guys ever feel that crunch time? Any tickle of any feeling other than "yup, going to explore this zone"? Do you ever get that "kill kill kill" feeling when that timer hits 1:00 and you head in to gank the priest?

Incidentally, the Ascension trial missions are the exact same format as HoH matches. Elona is the relic run. Thirsty is Burial Mounds and later variations. Dunes of Despair is the altar cap. You play the Ascension missions, you're playing a PvP game. The format is no different at all.

Do you guys feel any excitement during combat? It's the thrill of battle. And the thrill of battle doesn't care what mode you play.

To answer your question, WasAGuest, I'd be annoyed. Then I'd figure out a solution, whether that be finding another movie I'd be interested in seeing, or doing a "diner run," given that South Jersey has the most diners per square mile than any state or country around.

Thanks for answering. If a few more people answer, I'll end it with what the "original" askers ended with.
Those missions you mentioned are actually amoung the least favorite for me. THK is too long and holding the "fort" against wave after wave, well, I find dull. The desert missions as a whole leave something to be desired for me. Elona is horrible and reminded me of a poorly made CTF map or those UT maps where you ran off to grab the randomly spawning orb and returned it to your "base" for points. Thisty River is one of the most hated or loved missions in the game. You'll be hard pressed to find someone on the fence about this mission. They either hate it or love it, and it shows the polarity or the gamers in GW. And Dunes is flat boring to me.

What missions I do find fun, are ones that my group and I are pitted up against a single larger foe where the battle or foe doesn't drop in seconds flat. Glint is the single best mob boss in the game for me right now and I feel we could do with many more such encounters as her. Fighting our way to her then the final confrontation. There are other such "hot spots" in the game, but not many. Running to and from one fast dropping foe to another is not what I am looking for; see "Rushed" type game.
In Iron Mines, I woud love for the "Infusion bubble head" to not drop like a rock. It's a large step in the game and the boss should put up something of a fight. In S Cay, rather then defending the Vizier from waves of foes, I think it would be cooler to battle some sort of "sea monster" that is holding the ship down or something. We just need bigger longer lasting battles vs bigger more difficult creatures. Not waves and waves of foes. Just examples on how things could change for the better. This could be coming from the years of EQ where group tactics was required to take down even a single mob, but bosses need some work, and I'm not refering to adding more fodder around them.

As for the rush thing. I know exactly what you are talking about. Last time I felt that was years ago, before I burned out on PvP games. They just eventually did nothing for me and got boring. Hence, I grew away from them. Since that point, just can't get that feeling in any game, though on occasion I do get the "Cool!" or "HA!" when I live through something I shouldn't have.

Good questions though and I can see what you find fun in the game. I used to be the same way, sounds like, exactly what I used to look for in the games I played.

My experiences mostly reflect as Guest's do, except I do like the Elona Reach mission -- because it is difficult and great to practice team work. The time limit? We've never been close. I assure you I'd hate it if it were actual players we were against...

And then there's that worst-mission-in-the-game Aurora Glade...

(FYI, my favorite mission: Riverside.)

Well, as this weekend winds down, I find that my original fear about not accessing areas seems to be unfounded (at least as far as the allowed explorable areas have been). However, I still don't like this "your either with us or against us" mechanic. I think it would be a lot better if it was more like "as long as you are not an enemy, we will show you some hospitality." After all, if someone wants me to support their cause, they can at least prove to me that they are worth it.

I have also found some other problems, especially the monster imbalance on the Kurzick side. Siren hit the nail right on the head when he talked about the war of attrition when it comes to fighting groups in PvE - only its much worse thus far in Factions. It is neither fun nor challenging to attempt to sneak around a group of baddies or to outfight them when all of a sudden you are outnumbered 3 to 1. That's just rediculous.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Yea, access to areas seemed less an issue, but why go to an area you can't do anything in? With faction points being king here, access to missions and merchants was really locked out. As it were, before all my guildies gave up on it , we would go exploring, fill up on stuff to sell, head to a town, map out, sell, map back; add another step of re-grabbing henchies if we used em and rinse repeat.
The PvP games were terrible, at least for me. Time to enter them was horrid, and wanting to give it the benefit of the doubt, I kept trying. Once in, I found myself in the company of complete jerks and bafoons whom screamed and yelled at the group... it was no wonder so many people were dropping out of these missions. I dropped twice in a row because of this.
I finally got into a good group on the third try and while we were on our way we got slammed by the opposing team.
Two attempts I was really frustrated and irritated. Third attempt gave me cause for a "nevermind" attitude. Sorry, but "attempting" to do missions and quests over and over and not being able to finish it is like banging my head on a brick wall and calling it a good time. Hours lost and not a thing to show for it other than frustration. Not my idea of a good time or relaxing time.
For the FPE and the PvE content, I expected fewer quests than I got. So, no real complaints there on the quest side. What I didn't get to see, since I'm now out of time to play, is more missions that are focused on PvE rather than PvP. Earning 10k faction with one then the other became an effort of utter boredom. Create character, do all the quests I could find, play PvP for more or start yet another character (thank goodness I could send myself an invite) and repeat. Having those missions open at the start would have been better (it is a FPE after all).
The example above will probably not be possible in the full release. After hearing Jeff S in the interview, he says that after we "ascend" in Faction, we then pick a side. And while that is drastically shorter (per Jeff S), it is still 10 to 20 hours. So gaining faction points will eventually come down to faction point farming via PvP mini games after all the quests have been done. Unless I missed something... which is very possible.
Overall, my favorite part of the FPE was hearing the PvPers complain about the PvEers not knowing how to play in a PvP game. Hearing PvEers called "carebears", "noobs", "a-holes", "idiots" and many many more. Yea, good move putting PvE and PvP closer, made my gaming experience fun.

I suppose this would go in a different thread, but I just wanted to comment on it, heh.

In previous Betas, I've gotten my ass kicked before in the new areas. Even in the Gates of Kryta-esque BWE back in July 04, I got wrecked a few times. In the Beta introducing us to Post-Sear Ascalon, same thing. When I first hit The Wilds, same thing.

But this one was absurd. lol. Almost immediately it seemed like I had 30-50% DP, and it was only Arborstone. Eventually I got the hang of things, and now I can go with a Healer hench, maybe a Fighter, and clear zones pretty well, but still...the aggro and patrol circles were unfair. I usually don't say that about most things in any game, but the Dark Moa quest was downright wrong. 4-5 groups of some 3-4 enemies each, each with their own healer, all aggro when only one Gutter of one group strolls into my aggro bubble.

*shudders*

EDIT: Regarding the PvP stuff...usually during BWEs you have complete morons. Partly it's due to everyone has no idea what they're doing, and so they get frustrated. And partly it's due to some people are just complete douchebags. I wouldn't let that affect how you view PvP, though, because I played one of the Alliance missions last night and my experience was extraordinarily positive. Everyone (all 24 players) was very good-natured. Local chat was either silent or positive. We ultimately lost, but the other team complimented us on our "nice comeback!" after we had pushed back up to a 400/400 ratio at the 3/5 mark of the match.

Overall, the players I were teamed with in the PvP missions were fairly decent (personality-wise), but I really didn't have much fun in them at all. I don't know if it's because of the FPE, but if Anet wanted to introduce the new PvP system, they should have come up with a better way. I posted in another thread that I spend about 5 minutes running around or hiding in my team's base because the other team had control of all the access points, and we had no other alternatives but to chat and wait until they reached the 500 points.

If I was basing my decision to buy Factions primarily on the new PvP options, I certainly wouldn't be buying it at this point.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace