Griefers are here...in droves!

This game just suffers from the same hassles every online "RPG" does. People that don't know what the hell RPG really should mean.

WOW has the morons that want to duel/assault those 15 levels weaker than they are, we get the beligerent chumps that toss threats and run away when they see a chance to lose. It's pervasive in the hobby and you can't get rid of it.

But you can beat them. Talk to them in character and only in character. Pretend you don't understand their profanity as you don't speak that "strange language". They can't handle it.

Bu the real trick is this: Never, ever reply, speak to or converse with anyone that can't give their character a proper name. They don't deserve it. It's obvious that any buffon that insists on naming their character "Mastakilla pwn3r" or "Farside warrior/monk/necro" (I hate the guys that use one name and a prof. for 4 characters) just should be ignored. Don't help them, don't trade with them. It'll reduce our headaches.

fyi people that are like this aren't really like it IRL. I used to greif in CS because it was hilarious getting a rise out of people. Thats why they do it. Pay no attention to it, or youre just feeding them. Yeah it sucks but you encourage them to do it the more pissed you get.

All the OP said was that "Some of this carries over to team areanas as well as random.", the rest of his post was a direct criticism on PvE teamwork efficiency. His preference aside, he has made very little remark about choosing RA/TA/HA.

And i'm certain its "few" not "nobody" takes the arenas seriously...

They most certainly have the right to do so, but isn't it a bit selfish don't you think? For the sake of personal convenience you sacrifice your team, how inspiring.

Perhaps at one point RA/TA was just as serious as HoH/HA/GvG was now, but the idea that one is better than the other has seem to created an escalating effect RA/TA. When one or two players decided that RA/TA wasn't important enough to them... they desert their teammates. After a while others percieve this as a norm, "everybody leaves, so why not? It won't hurt me... just those three other stupid dweebs I called a team earlier.." seems like the end has already justified the means hasn't it?


Elitist? Perhaps, I believe in favors for people who upheld their respect for their own teammates. It certainly beats giving equal favors to those who are willing to fight to defend you and those who will abandon you at the moments notice.

Anyone that joins in an RA/TA match and then proceeds to kill themselves, stand there doing nothing, quit... the list goes on; those people are simply losers there are no two ways about it. If you go into the RA/TA you are there to support your team, you are there to play to win, and of course you are there to have fun as winning is NOT everything.

Maybe you can tell right off the bat that your team cannot win through that match. That does not serve to give right (or even pathetic excuse) for anyone on that team to simply abandon and leave. You chose to be there, you won't win all the time. You should still fight and do what you can. I was in RA once, and we had a team without a Monk. I didn't care, I had a self heal with me and a couple other defensive skills to help me in a bind. We won the first few matches, then someone quit... don't know why. We still one that match in which we were outnumbered by 1 (4 vs. 3) and the next round we recieved a new player. This group continued to win (without at monk) and we eventually made it to the TA (after 10 wins) where we quite promptly lost. That was a lot of fun, and goes a long way to show you don't need a monk or even a full team of 4 to pull off a win.

It is a shame the ignore list wasn't far larger than it was, for any quitter would make it on that list so I'd know never to be in a group with that person again (save for the unfortunate fate of finding them in RA again).

Edit: for typo.

Funny how towards the end of every game's life is when griefing begins. It's when the methods of success has been systematically strategized into an easy 3 step program: "Shoot here, Jump here, open this door... run here, protective spirit, shield of judgement, rinse.. repeat......"

Griefing is basically when players are no longer entertained by the mundane 3 step programs of success anymore. Anyone can farm for gold and factions. Every mission already has a set "path" to take, a set "actions" to do.

This is when players take creative liberties and perform spontaneous, and sometimes idiotic things just to bring fresh new entertainment to themselves. Amused by how sporatic their teammates can become, the hot negative feedbacks they recieve, these griefers begin to flourish.

I'm not trying to defend griefing, I'm merely explaining their origins and motivations to do so. The fault lays in a game that severely needs updating (GW Factions?). Sooner or later griefing itself will become boring as well, and if entertainment cannot be readily available to the players, we can only expect even worse and more malicious griefers to appear.

For me when I get a griefer in RA I just accept it and hit the enter mission button again after the loss. Their problem really. Did they really have a better time watching the other people play? How many times can this still be fun?

The length of this thread ended up in a long debate about Pve and Pvp and both sides calling elitism on each other. Really I think they are both right. Both sides have a certain level of inaccessiblity and that frustrates those who are not experienced in whatever. Sure SF has the set "oro" teams, but Pvp has its own long set of narrow builds. It isn't that you can't win without those builds, but they have been proven winners so it is easy to reproduce some level of quality.

The only advice I can give on this is to friend people you had a good playing experience with wheter it be PvE or PvP. After I started using freinds I found this game alot more enjoyable for both PvE and PvP. Guilds are a quick way to acheive a friend list, though they aren't as reliable without time. I have come to trust and enjoy my guildies as we did months of GvG now. Sure we had some really aweful games where we got shut out, but it was ok because we had developed a team attitude so we could shake off the loses and better enjoy the wins. Didn't happen overnight, but brought alot more enjoyment into Pvp for me.

Why not leave your guild for an active one?

Yes, it's sadly true that many players in GW are a bunch of idiots, to say the least.

All I can really recommend is turning off local chat, and finding a decent guild. Like ours.

Amen, I hate leaves

Some points to make:

-RA is the result of professional pvpers being lasy and refusing to set standards of maturity in that arena. I could probably make the supposition that if players refused to "allow" this sort of behavior to happen, it wouldn't. True, you can't MAKE them leave, but you can make them feel so unwelcome they either shape up of ship out.

-If you are fanatically devoted and/or addicted to a multi-player FPS, i.e counter-strike. Please, for are that is decent and good, realize this is NOT AN FPS. People here do not find your trash talk amusing, funny, entertaining, or interesting in the least. They will hold grudges, some will hate you, and overall you will be considered a LOSER.

-In reference to the above. Names like pwntehn00bzors, sirhaxorzlot, and IaMuBeR!!!Shift+1!!! ARE NOT COOL, they are stupid, really, really stupid. Again if you have a name like this you will be considered a LOSER.

-Now here's the logical connection of the two previous statements. If these people hate to LOSE, they should stop acting like LOSERS.

I too enjoyed this game tons when it started and the community wasn't to bad. But like all other online games it is suffering from the griefer armies. I am sick and tired of this filth invading these games. If these people want to be arrogent, garbage-mouth, ignorant little freaks, fine. But stay the hell out of "RPGs." You are not welcome, we do not want you.

People might like to believe that RA is the devoted cesspool of the game where grefiers are "allowed" to reside. Well guess what griefers earned their title because they don't quit and they are never satisfied with anything less then the total corruption of the game.

Perhaps there should be a Guild called GW: Community, for players who are not griefers. With strict standards of behavior that cater to all types of play from RA to Tombs to PvE, no level requirement, with players in pre and post-sear. Maybe it's time we start ostricizing, criticizing, and pushing out these people, instead of saying "it's a game, just ignore it, it will go away." Let's start making them feel as unwelcome as they make us feel.

There should be NO place for griefers. Not in Tombs, not in towns, not in RA. They should not be spoken to, they should not be traded with, they should never get on a team, they should never be able to complete a mission without henching it.

Maybe this all sounds harsh and totalitarian, but they started it. It's time a game's community decided to finish it for once.

P.S. A community ousting greifers has been achieved once. A game called BattleCruiser Millenium managed to hold such tight reins on behavior that griefers to my knowledge, do not exsist. Now, in time the game has gone out of style so there aren't many players left, but the point is, it can be done. Greifers are here because we let them be.

I like my name LuLu The Monk. Albeit I haven't used it on my main account for probably 6 months. I fail to see how this falls outside of an RP perspective. Declaring your name and profession is quite within the realm of introducing your RP character. While LuLu Wiggin has a more proper 2 name convention, how is that any different than introducing yourself as "Dr. Jane Doe, MD" or " Mr. Billy Bob, Carpenter"? RPing has very little to do with the name you choose for yourself, but rather how you play out that character. I also strongly believe that leveling and stat points have absolutely nothing to do with RP. Strictly speaking, I find PvPers to be more faithful RPers in general compared to their PvE counterparts. While PvErs play their aspect of the game, little of their interactions with other players truly depict how their in game character would behave (granted there is a small population that are true RPers, but that population is very minute). On the other hand, Pvpers ingame characters tend to 'role-play' their characters more accurately. Many times a pvpers in game behaviour does not reflect accurately on their RL behaviour, but are that in-game characters own persona.

Whee, random musings of a pvper.

/signed

There's something everyone needs to remember. Since Guild Wars is a pay-once, play-forever type of game, evne people who quit the game have access to it (you never really quit). As such, a person who got bored with it or moved on can come back a year later (oh that's still instealled) and just pass time screwing around with people. The only way to truly get rid of them is to ban them..

I'm sorry but no. "Professional" PvPers? Being lazy and not setting standards? What are you even talking about?

If you mean players that actually have some semblance of what it means to be competitive, then the reason they stay out of RA is soley because it is random. I'll say it again. Random Arena does not attract the cream of the crop in the PvP community because it is RANDOM.

Guild Wars, as much as some people like to claim, argue, and believe, otherwise, is based on team (mostly 8vs8) competitive play. This means that the most skilled people are going to actively ignore the one PvP option that takes no strategy and no teamwork. To go even further, RA play seems to reject strategy and teamwork. It's a clusteredit more often than not, in all honesty.

This is not to say that RA is bad. There are some people that enjoy the aspect of "anything goes" and "no coordination" PvP. That's fine. But understand that's why it repels seasoned PvPers and why it attracts griefers.

I sometimes go into RA and sac myself to death (4 infuse health one IoW gg) before the game even begins. Am I a griefer? because I certainly grieve.

Why? god knows...The game is so boring, It's PvP based but the combat is so repetative, I.E. if I see a ranger I instantly think

Lame ass trapper

Full of Interupts

Bunny thumper

Degen/runner

Vamp-touch spamming freak.

etc.

And I already know or not if my team can win or loose when I check out the other 3 players (just tab through 'em fast, see what enchants/preps they run). about 10% of matches suprise me, the rest...predicatable within 20 seconds. It's just not my idea of fun, and before you say 'quit the game then', becareful, cos a lot of people already have, and If factions doesn't give PvP a much needed breath of fresh air, guildwars will become a ghost.

Let me clarify, I know your judgement was based on different definitions of "professional"

My opinion of "professional" is a player who spends 80% or more their time pvping, and does reasonably well, i.e. their profession is to do PvP. And believe it or not there are a lot of them in RA, because they are waiting for people, or just want to do random. These were the lazy professionals I was refering to, not the Tombs Elitists, they're a whole other kettle of fish.

FWIW, griefing of this kind has been alive & well since at least the week after GW was released. Leaving was as bad as it is now, but improved a bit after it became possible to unlock stuff with faction.
Of course, it may have been people bored silly of the content already in beta doing it, but I think some people are just natural born a-holes.

The general level of civility has decreased sharply in just the last few months, and got really bad after the PvP weekend. Before the PvP weekend it was quite rare to see people lining up to "i give head lolz" or just seeing how many profanities one can stack in one conversation. I saw my first racist ever in GW around christmas, but have seen half a dozen since.

This on the EU servers; it seems it has always been that way on the US servers - US players please correct me if that is wrong.

Now, maybe this means that a majority of players have run out of content at the same time, but personally I think it means there's been an influx of players with different attitude. Where they come from I do not know... but I suspect WoW. Or, possibly, they're the a-hole brigade, europeans and americans, following the favor of the gods from the US servers to the EU servers.

It is my assumption the EU servers are better then American Servers, from what I've heard, but it's been a steady increase in un-civil behavior on both, if you think 6 racists are bad, try 60, it seems for every 1 griefer on the EU servers, there's 10 or more on the American.

You are correct. It was a generalization and there are exceptions to everything, but I spent enough time there to call it like I see it. So if accessing your environment and using the data obtained to come to a logical conclusion is characteristic of ineptitude then I am guilty.


That’s not the point, the point is their lack of teamwork and skill set is not going to keep them from playing and bringing the bad behavior with them wherever they go.


It can and is defined, not by you or Shinsei, but by Anet, as is everything else in the game. If they say RA/TA is a form of PvP then it is so decreed. Some elitist pseudo-definition of PvP such as the one given is nothing more than an arrogant elitist exercise in mental masturbation.

Those are words you may live by, but I myself prefer” knowledge is power”.


No, You are an elitest when you are so wrapped up in a tiny part of the game that you discount other aspects of the game as crap because its not what you do.


Probably does know who he is , but like so many don’t really care. Anet spends the 50 bucks per chapter from him the same as they spend his. Nobody said he couldn’t play, he just doesn’t make sense and has flawed arguments and point of view. Which were correctly pointed out in the discussion. If he wants to come correct he can always rebuttal to make a believable point which ain't likely.

It's all crap. It's a lame excuse for lame behaviour, there is no valid reasonable reason for it. There never will be. If you are bored, go play something else. It seems you that you have the belief that everyone in Guild Wars must play PvP... and thus if they leave it'll be the end of the game. In that you are dead wrong. I only PvP for the fun of it every so often, and I know I'm not alone. The game won't die simply because a few bored PvPers leave. You know what to expect when you enter RA, you know there stands a chance you will not win. If that doesn't appeal to you, go someplace else as you are not wanted in the RA.

Unfortunately, there has always been a griefing a-hole since the dawn of man, though few they were in numbers, their perpetual obnoxiousness is quite contagious. Manifesting itself in the rest of the population in a matter of months, sometimes weeks.

I, for one, have never really enjoyed PvP. I think its because I usually get 2-3 wins in and then start the process of sucking horribly, for whatever reason. I do enjoy Random Arena mostly because you can go in...and actually lose without feeling to terrible about it. That's my thoughts at least.

it is highly annoying when folks leave, but sometimes these things can't be helped. Some people don't have the best computer or internet connection. This doesn't excuse everyone by any means, but it's also just a thought.

The other thing is that Guild Wars seems to be geared towards the more casual gamer. i.e. You don't have to waste an entire weekend getting your character to level up one or two levels, etc. The flipside to this is that alot of the missions just guide you along a set course, leaving little wiggle room. On top of that we haven't had any really new and exciting content added since Sorrow's Furance. Right after that update I found that alot of my inactive friends or fellow guildies came back for a time. Maybe since we're close to another huge update the good folks will come crawling back out of the wood-work and life will be interesting again. One can only hope.

As someone who only started playing GW after the PVP weekend, I can tell you that RA is the only reasonable place for a "causal" player to do PVP. So it is, in fact, a valid PVP area, and there is no reason why it should be filled up with jag-offs.

I don't know about anyone else's experiences, but whenever I try TA or above, it feels considerably less fun. Because the higher up you go, the more you have to compete with and against the min/maxers, and I don't have the time or inclination to do that. It's harder to get a group, because people generally want to run some very specific builds (and balk at you if you haven't collected every skill for every class), and if you go in with a pickup/partial group, 9 times out of 10 you're up against a team far more organized than you. Not fun. (And btw, if you do manage to get in a decent team and don't do EXACTLY what your teammates expect, you get ridiculed to no end. Yeah, I'm going to spend time getting talked down to by a 16 year old. No thanks.)

RA is at least a level playing field, and I do feel a certain sense of accomplishment when my RA team makes it to TA, and then wins a few matches there too. But this relatively rare... most of the time you have jerks doing all sorts of stupid stuff. Judging by some of the posts in this thread, it sounds like some of you hardcore people purposely come to RA to screw around and act stupid. That's fine and dandy, I guess, but remember that there are people for which RA is their regular PVP. Not necessarily because they are n00bs, but because they don't have the time or inclination to min/max it out, collect every skill in the game, master every build, etc.. I know it sounds crazy to some of you, but they have a right to play Guild Wars jerk-off free too.

Ever heard of the statement "sample size too small to produce reliable conclusions"?

I've been PvPing since release, have I encountered people that are crass, crude, arrogant and lack the ability function in a team environment? Sure.
Has my experience been a mostly positive one? Definately.

I've also been PvEing since release (skill grind FTW); Do I ecounter people who are so overwhelming childish, arrogant and willingly and agressively ignorant that they shouldn't been allowed to live past the age of 3 ? Sure.
Has my experience (With the community) been a mostly postive one? Definately.

All in all people really need to learn that just because they bought this game, everyone isn't there to serve you. You don't complain that XYZ sports League/University/etc doesn't take you in when you aren't qualified, so why are you complaining when a Top 10 guild/High Ranked Team doesn't?

Sure it is. Like how people can pick and choose players via rank, you can do the same with attitude.

"OMGz FU I no howz to ply my war , so STFU" or "LOL j00 r t3h nub cuz j00 don't hav r9"
"Ok"
*Kick Player*

For all other situations, theres the old friend Ignore List and the ability to turn off Local Chat (which seems to be filled with drivel no matter where I go).

For GvG its even easier, once they are gone from the guild, they can hardly bother you anymore.


I can call salt, sugar and hell I can even make a company that markets salt as sugar.

But if it ain't it ain't. Doesn't matter if I'm the CEO of that company or a "mere" consumer.


I don't live by any words, defining the way you live by a simple phrase only shows a lack of understanding or short sightedness. "Life phrases" are silly things that are only used to make a person appear more intelligent or to make the listener feel better.

Or maybe its crap... cause its crap? Doesn't mean it isn't fun crap. Just like dime novels are fun to read too, doesn't mean they are brilliant works of literature.

That statement was more for wolf's decree that

"Unfortunately you will always have elitist players who believe themselves the pinnacle of everything...

Fortunately we can usually trounce them in gvg whenever they to allow us to compete against them...Lmao"

Ad hominen attacks are silly.

I agree with that 100%, yet to want not to be disrespected and belittled is a reasonable request and standard of behavior which is in no way asking to be catered to.

I'm not complaining and never had, I am a super casual pvp'r and quietly PUG'd my way to R6 whenever we had no favor. I just have a "get in where I can fit in" PvP mentality. Anyone who will have me I'm glad to play with them. So I'm not sure why you responded with that.

[/QUOTE]

I don't really like the atmosphere I get from this thread, but I guess it's just a normal debate. Though the whole flaming thing makes me feel a bit odd. Ahh well.

No offense, Shadowspawn and Akathrielah, you guys are just arguing about arbitrary differences in opinions. You guys have already agreed upon the negative effects of griefers. The importance of RA/TA being an upper or lower tier pvp is subject to individual views and opinions. Now you guys are just accusing each other of elitism and defending your defense of defenses.

I feel that my original call for action was the best way around this. But....its not even discussed.

We share an instances in this game with people that are allowed to choose to be less than kind and corropative.
Certainly some lines must be drawn, but the level of tolarnce should remain high and push to go higher, rather than finding ways to surpress someones desires that has minimal consequences.

The emotional respond is the reason to act like a a**hole. If everyone would realize these attutides dont hurt them (at least in a virtual envoriment), then a**holes would loose intrest and move on or grow out of it.

And even if they dont, it will matter less.
For me when a griefer comes my way, the griefing never happens because I dont get grief.

My solution is to find a way to ignore them better.
Im still in favor of a well designed /kick feature.
Team finding would help me to filter out the pugs to find a group of individuals with a simular plan and goal as to my own.
The less time I have to take finding teams that work, the less time griefers have taking up my space.

See the reason why kids in games act like little a**holes is because game world is a place where they are really not controlled by their parents. So they thank they can act in whatever way they wish. I have known kids who are quite shy and polite in real life and a jerk in game world. And quite frankly parents dont really care what their kids do in some games. So the primary problem lay with the parents, not the kids. Parents should keep an eye on what their kids do in games, today's online games are different then the games played by today's parents when they were kids.

I think a solution is to raise awareness of these kind of behaviors by kids through media. No, I dont think this will ruin game play, it will only make it even better.

I guess there are certain things about this that are deeper than the game alone...parents want to be friends with their kids, "cool" or to remain uninvolved with the day-to-day emotional/social maintainance of a child. I'm a teacher...I see apathy breed apathy more quickly than the anonymity of the chat channels breeds stupidity.

Socially speaking, the psychology of RPG addiction is fascinating...but more is the influence of the media over the mass. Children watching WWF/WWE or what-ever-the-hell it is called now is probably the number one influence (in the media) over young men's attitude towards women and what it means to be a man and not a "pussy"...bullying, humiliation, degredation....all of it geared to the 12-18 year old male...mmmmm....good cracker.

Society is the problem (deeper than parents)...folks just don't want to take responsibility for themselves or anything else...just look at the sue-hungry heffer that took McD's for burning herself with a cup of coffe SHE spilled on HERSELF because she felt the restaraunt was negligent in serving her an actual cup of HOT f-ing coffee.

People would rather argue and place blame on issues than actually deal with the issues (hence arguments amongst perfectly normal people about things not directly dealing with the subject of griefers/greifing in this thred...you're both right/wrong just admit it, shake hands and look at the BIG picture)...We tend to see our little corner of the planet as the point from which all other points should be seen. Truth is, we are all the same person and the debate we are typing out here is the same as the one that plays out in our own heads (quantum physics and the Budha will prove me right on this point so don't pick at it, you'll leave a scar)...

My whole problem is that I used to like the quick RA/TA matches as a fun diversion, but because some little pinhead getting an adrenalin rush my ruining my (and other's) fun...I don't enjoy it any more. I go back once in a while to test things...that's it. The prevailant attitudes from RA/TA have overflowed into general game play, so now I have no clue how to have fun socially in this game...I'll be playing Morrowind: Oblivion in a couple days, but it won't be the same. A random RPer or great PUG in the middle of general play was what I really liked the game for.

PvP was never really my thing, though I find it an interesting diversion...The issue of what is better (PvP or PvE or GvG) is a null issue for me (quit arguing about it please, 'cause only you care about what you like better....opinions cannot be debated on the merrits of themselves)...

What I'm looking for is a way to rekindle some of the enthusiasm and wonder that this game held for me a year ago. Guilds that focus on PvP bugging me every day about setting me up on their voice service of choice is not fun. Neither is having the guilds I've been in for PvE die out because "Sir Loin of Beef" (made it up) hasn't been online for 2 months and neither have the other 12 members....Farming for wealth isn't fun either. The most fun I had was about a month ago when I bought 10 gold Shadow Bows and gave them as gifts to rangers who could answer cryptic riddles...a couple warriors played along and I met a couple fellow RPers...but chatting with them is often merely social and not gaming...I'd like both.

I said before that maybe Factions will get me over the melancholia I seem to be suffering...In the mean time, I haven't had the heart to play...I sign in...I look at my inventory...check a couple old unfinished quests...grab henchies....step through the gate...kill a mob or two and log out. I have 2 low level characters that are nothing more than name-savers...I can't play through it all a sixth and seventh time...I just can't...I deleted a couple characters and couldn't bring myself to fully develop other professions after two rangers two necromancers and elementalist and a monk...the abuse I took as a monk killed the idea of EVER trying that again...


I know I sound like a whiner (comes with being born a red-headed step child). I know I can't change the behavior of socially retarded monkeys. I see I'm not alone in my frustration...I just wonder if there has been anyone who has gone through it and truely risen above it...GW, sadly, has been my main form of entertainment/relaxation for the last year...I hate to move on, but I'm seriously in a funk right now about the state of the game...NOT in and of itself, but the quality of human being that is inhabiting the same little slice of cyberspace. By the way...even when I log in during the day (when all the 13-year-olds are in school...I know, 'cause I'm at work) I see the same "tards" cluttering up the chat channels...

My apologies to any and all who found the need to have a little flamefest... but remember this isn't about you...

It's about me

Yes I guess society is an issue here man.

But hey, I dont think many ppl who watch WE (I think thats wat they r called now) and Ultimate Fighter really want to give u their way of life just for some kids. If we bann all those shows, and along with all the shows that have bad languages and themes, we would all go back to watching "Dora the Explorer" with my little cousin. that is not going to happen.

So it really is just to parents to prevent kids from watching those shows. I mean thast wat parental control is for right?

"parental control" has become an oxymoron....seriously

I'll just say this, don't let random arenas color your opinion of PVP in Guild Wars.

I applaud your analysis, but take issue with the bolded line.

And this question goes out to everyone:


Why not?

Individuals can not really do anything against a society, it's far to stressful and time consuming for one person, and that's all people see. In our fear to attempt the difficult, we forget to look for those to aid us in our challenge.

Yes, what was said may be true. One can not change anothers behavior. HOWEVER, a group of people, a society, even our in game society, can force and atmosphere of change upon those who have offended us, and spurned us. If the community of non-griefing players were to stand up and simply say "To hell with all you griefers, you don't get to bully us anymore" they would lose thier ability to function effectively and would go crawling to easier prey because if there is one thing a griefer is, it's a COWARD.

I reitterate my call for all persons in this game to never speak to a griefer unless it is to shame thier ignorance and cruelty, never trade with them, refuse to help them, do not team with them, and do everything in your power to take away their power. If you see someone arguing a losing battle over a subject with a griefer, support them, back thier idea, with more knowledge and experience comes victory. Make the griefer see that they are outnumbered by those who know better then they. If you encounter a griefer by accident in a team, warn all your friends immediately, and have them spread the word. If you see people swearing and cursing in a manner that is just obsessive and repulsive, do not hesitate to screenie and report. You are not a whiner, or a coward for defending your right to have standards. And ANYONE who says otherwise is WEAK and INSECURE, and has no right to say so.

Make our Guild Wars society say that if these people want to play, they will play by our rules.

While I don't play in RA/TA/HA, I can echo your sentiment that 90% of matches are not surprising. However I disagree with you that the remaining 10% is not worth it. To me, those 10% of matches that surprise me are quite fun and invigorating. To each their own.

Um, Tombs is a joke as well

I earlier posted to let the griefers roll off your back. I hadn't been to RA in a while and felt like a random game today.....wow....

Each time I went into the wating area it was filled with hate speech (including once in Spanish about white people). Each match had either a leaver, a suicider, or just general greifers/name callers (no match ended without my team either insulting me, each other, or the opposing team). I did this for an hour thinking it would lighten up, I was wrong. In fact, it just became stranger and more potent. Maybe I was on at a bad time......I hope this isn't a sign of bigger problems......

I'm disappointed. I saw this and hoped it would be good stories of griefing, but its just a little complaining. You see, I'm someone who could be called a griefer, in fact thats what a lot of people used to call me. Used to play a lot of UO and the opportunity to grief was aboundant and was extremely fun to do. Of course I was on the wrong end of it many times but I took it in stride and figured out ways to get passed it.

Anyways, back to GW. There isn't a good way to grief people here and I'm sort of dissappointed. Its part of life, some people are nice and others aren't. I want a way to be mean to my fellow players. So if you have a fun and productive way to do this, other than just leaving the group or going afk I would gladly appriciate you sharing. Otherwise I'll just continue to monk in RoF with Unyielding Aura, which by the way is a great spell.

Im glad you posted that Yogi.
The reality is - people with your interest exist, like it or not.

There are games designed with this kind of interaction in mind. (best one to my knowledge is eve online)
Then there are games what dont intend for this to take place. (GW would be one game that isnt designed for this)

So how does a game like GWs control what is bound to happen?
One way is to report and band people that take thier "griefing" games to a uncompremising level.
The other way is create machanics in the game to filter you out.

I have my own "filters" (laughter mostly) but... it is still time consuming to be griefed on.
I think if the game provided ways to dismiss griefers better then the less time I waste with them.
Plus, thats less fustrations for people that cant laugh it off.

hm....interesting discussion, i still have yet to come across anything worse then someone who leaves right after they die, and only rarely. But im sure ppl like that exist, just ignore them, there are a lot worse things that can happen besides someone killing themselves in RA.

Studentchaos:
Nope it's like that 99% of the time. If not worse.

Self Edit: I found the last part of my post to be unessesarily rude and confrontational. I dispise griefers, with every fiber of my being, but they are still just haneously misguided people. For a little while I forgot that they were people. Thus, I deleted the last part. I'll probably take a break from the thread or just watch.

I however, still think griefers deserve to be driven from the game without mercy. Nothing will ever chance that opinion. Watched to many games fall to griefers.