Does anyone else see that is WAY too strong with the current Area buff that fevered got?
Use the dagger throwing skill that counts as a lead attack. Teleport>temple>twisted fangs.
That's blind, dazed, cripple, bleeding, and deep wound in an Area range of effect. Add in a frag mes and its GG.
Temple Strike + Fevered dreams
twicky_kid
Fred Kiwi
And then someone goes and uses martyr and its gg.
Mercury Angel
Even with the 'in the area' range, it's hardly amazing; Barring healing ball builds, and their variants, it's rare to find people close enough for it to matter.
That aside, you would think that if it became a problem, as did Lightning Surge, people would simply learn that Fevered Dreams = Telegraph of a conditions spike to come soon, and adapt.
Edit: And as a note, don't forget about a Virulence necromancer in your group! XD Every single condition that way!
That aside, you would think that if it became a problem, as did Lightning Surge, people would simply learn that Fevered Dreams = Telegraph of a conditions spike to come soon, and adapt.
Edit: And as a note, don't forget about a Virulence necromancer in your group! XD Every single condition that way!
SilentAssassin
you are already complaining about it beeing to powerfull when you haven't played the game for many hours to test builds - antibuilds... 
some ppl are whiners
some ppl are whiners
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fred Kiwi
And then someone goes and uses martyr and its gg.
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You should try fevered dreams now. The aoe is so big now. Its almost ward size.
I've made a build using fevered dreams right now and there is very little you can do to stop it. Its 10 recharge is insane for a 20+ duration spell. Even if it does get removed the dmg has been done. You only need it for a spike. Add 2 fevered dreams to the mix and you have a deadly spread.
Hit target 1 when conditions are spread if target 2 is in the same area it will spread again to an even larger area.
tigernz
FD has always had the range of a ward. It's gained popularity due to the buff and might indeed become even more useful once Factions is released.
With regard to Martyr being a counter, you could always add fragility (logical addition anyway) on your FD carrier. If they want to Martyr the target they'll cause an additional 24 * number of conditions (8 with Temple-Twisted-Virulence) worth of damage.
With regard to Martyr being a counter, you could always add fragility (logical addition anyway) on your FD carrier. If they want to Martyr the target they'll cause an additional 24 * number of conditions (8 with Temple-Twisted-Virulence) worth of damage.
Esprit
Fevered Dreams is nice in PvE, where the AI tend to group together. If you coordinate your actions with Warriors, Necros, and Ele's you can apply about every condition to the area through 1 enemy.
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tigernz
With regard to Martyr being a counter, you could always add fragility (logical addition anyway) on your FD carrier. If they want to Martyr the target they'll cause an additional 24 * number of conditions (8 with Temple-Twisted-Virulence) worth of damage.
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The build is able to spread conditions without even using FD at all. It just makes it more deadly.
But really adding temple strike to the build would really just make it even more impossible. Since assassins have 4 pips of energy regen I could replace a caster very easily with a Zin.
Vermilion Okeanos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Use the dagger throwing skill that counts as a lead attack.
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There are quite a few skill that is suppose to be one of the sequence attack, but do not require normal sequence. Such as falling spider and golden phoenix feather. Although dacning dagger got a stripe, it did not say it can be use as an lead attack anywhere.
and btw "In the Area" = Ward size.
I find Fevered dream best team with 0 illusion attribute.
Glasswalker
0 Illusion + Fevered Dreams is only good in a Fragility build, and Fragility has been nerfed for a long time now.
The build recommended here already includes 3 Elites just for degen... Which really depends upon your enemy's build to be effective (and I've never been one to rely on my enemy).
Temple Strike only lasts for 7 seconds at 12 DM. Not too much for spreading conditions.
Martyr doesn't target anyone, it pulls off the whole team's conditions. 7 conditions applied/removed = 14 strikes against Fragility at a maximum of 21 damage each that's 357 damage total. Negligable in the current Infuse Health environment.
Dancing Daggers counts as a lead attack.
And the big thing here is, conditions can be ineffectial against certain classes, and in PvP, the only enemies you will ever find in range are Warriors (beating the snot out of you) and Monks in a healing ball. Weakness and Blind will do nothing to a Monk, and Dazed + 10 (max) degen does very little to a Warrior.
Oh yeah, and on a technical point, it isn't all conditions since Exhaustion and On Fire aren't in the mix anywhere.
Sorry.
The build recommended here already includes 3 Elites just for degen... Which really depends upon your enemy's build to be effective (and I've never been one to rely on my enemy).
Temple Strike only lasts for 7 seconds at 12 DM. Not too much for spreading conditions.
Martyr doesn't target anyone, it pulls off the whole team's conditions. 7 conditions applied/removed = 14 strikes against Fragility at a maximum of 21 damage each that's 357 damage total. Negligable in the current Infuse Health environment.
Dancing Daggers counts as a lead attack.
And the big thing here is, conditions can be ineffectial against certain classes, and in PvP, the only enemies you will ever find in range are Warriors (beating the snot out of you) and Monks in a healing ball. Weakness and Blind will do nothing to a Monk, and Dazed + 10 (max) degen does very little to a Warrior.
Oh yeah, and on a technical point, it isn't all conditions since Exhaustion and On Fire aren't in the mix anywhere.
Sorry.
twicky_kid
7 seconds is a lot of time to kill some one. Not to mention dazed slowing down their healing during that time.
Temple>twisted fangs is usually enough to kill one target with the assassin alone.
Dancing daggers is the skill I was thinking about. Since it is a spell your lead attack will always hit.
I'll do more testing on the 24th.
Temple>twisted fangs is usually enough to kill one target with the assassin alone.
Dancing daggers is the skill I was thinking about. Since it is a spell your lead attack will always hit.
I'll do more testing on the 24th.
Dodo The Extinct
Well, doesn`t temple strike cause Daze? Doesn`t Daze inturrupt ur spells when attacked? I`m thinking assassins with pets...lots and lots of pets!
Alonsiddog
Doesn't anyone know that Fevered dreams and Temple Strike are both elites?
Ristaron
Hahaha, ok that's funny.
Rogmar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Martyr is mangable. Its call Sig of Humility and diversion. Moving on.
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Besides if one monk carries Restore Condition and another Martyr, it'll be covered either way.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alonsiddog
Doesn't anyone know that Fevered dreams and Temple Strike are both elites?
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Obviously you haven't heard of team/skill coordination where one person brings a skill that works very efficiently with anothers.
Alonsiddog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rogmar
Yeah, we're using it the same character for a 10 sec duration...right.
Obviously you haven't heard of team/skill coordination where one person brings a skill that works very efficiently with anothers. |
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alonsiddog
Sigh, I guess people don't have the ability to read into things. What I'm suggesting is that sure, this is a good build for soloing, except you can't have two elites. There are a lot of better skill combos for a team, many of which don't take up the elite slots of two characters.
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This has nothing do with pve. You can take anything into pve and do well. This is about pvp.
HA is limited to confined areas that is difficult not to get hit by aoe. Not to mention alter maps when you spend most of your time on the alter or at least around it. I think this is going to be a huge splash in HA. I've used it in HA and beat ghost in under a minute with a pressure build. No spike at all just pure degen.
The build I've created is for gvg on the burning isle. Once again a map that is difficult to move around and very close quarters.
Btw to the guy that said remove hex = owned. So is the story of every single hex on the game. But guess what ever heard of a cover hex. Mainly fragility, scrouge healing, conjure phantasm, and the list goes on. Like I mentioned eariler (if you read the thread) you don't need it to last. You only need it for the spike after that it doesn't matter if its removed.
frojack
Sorry to high-jack, but on a side-note. Anyone think "Victory is Mine!" will get nerfed because of the Assassin's high ability to cause conditions?
Guardian of the Light
Any build based on hexs and conditions will fall to a build with heavy hex and condtion removal.
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by frojack
Sorry to high-jack, but on a side-note. Anyone think "Victory is Mine!" will get nerfed because of the Assassin's high ability to cause conditions?
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Its the same reason you don't see Channeling in gvg. You will see it in HA because its closer quarters.
frojack
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
No.
Its the same reason you don't see Channeling in gvg. You will see it in HA because its closer quarters. |
What I also found fantastic about this ability is that it's a 'shout'. It can't be interupted. While it can be stopped by other means, it's still quite impressive.
When I was testing VIM out, I quite humourously noticed I could even use it even when knocked down, Which was pretty funny. Healing when your on ground lol. Only problem with it was the need for conditions. Something Assassins won't have much trouble with.
Anyway, sorry for the tangent.
Temple + Twisted is very nasty indeed. If you take another lead attack (as you might in case your 'flow' is interupted) if you take Mantis Sting, that's cripple also. 5 conditions. That's almost all of them lol. I mean, what's left...
Disease, Poison, burning?
Actually, if you tack on Entangling Asp after Mantis that's also poisoning. If the target is not dead already. 6 Conditions? Well we'll see I suppose. BTW, with VIM, that's (at 12 tactics) 336 hp and 30 energy
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I Will Avenge Me
Even without the fevered dreams combo temple strike still needs a nerf. That or buff skull crack, but even then, 2 assasins for the 2 monks, boom temple strike, then let 2 spike rangers take out one and 2 other spike rangers take out the other. Even though theres only 2 rangers per monk, they will be completly unable to help themself and the spike from assasin combos should do the trick.
Alonsiddog
Meh, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. The main reasons I don't like this build is because of the wealth of skills to remove conditions. This build would be amazing with fragility, but it seems a lot of micromanagement to me.
Maddie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alonsiddog
Doesn't anyone know that Fevered dreams and Temple Strike are both elites?
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you can have 1 mesmer
and then 4 assasins.
So NOT NOT NOT on the same character.. Gee, that was hard to think about
Asrial
Quote:
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Originally Posted by I Will Avenge Me
Even without the fevered dreams combo temple strike still needs a nerf. That or buff skull crack, but even then, 2 assasins for the 2 monks, boom temple strike, then let 2 spike rangers take out one and 2 other spike rangers take out the other. Even though theres only 2 rangers per monk, they will be completly unable to help themself and the spike from assasin combos should do the trick. |
Alonsiddog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Maddie
and dont you know that.. ugg..
you can have 1 mesmer and then 4 assasins. So NOT NOT NOT on the same character.. Gee, that was hard to think about |
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alonsiddog
This build would be amazing with fragility, but it seems a lot of micromanagement to me.
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Its really no different than a degen hex build. You spread the degen around wearing down the team then spike the targets that get low. Same concept here.
With the build I'm creating you can do a fevered + temple spike and have another war spiking along with casters. Its going to be really nasty when you only need 2 people for each spike.
Look at it this way. If there was a spell that added 5 conditions (cripple, blind, dazed, deep wound, bleeding) in an area around the target would you use it?
My answer is hell ya. Since you can spike the conditions in 1 spell cast and 2 melee hits (also teleport to target) its going to very hard to prevent and harder to recover once dazed is added in. Unlike warriors assassins have a better chance of hitting their targets with their skills.
frojack
Additionally, Dazed (one of, if not the most devastating conditions for casters) can be covered up quite easilly with another condition. In fact, considering the order of the description, Temple strike covers up Dazed automatically for you with Blindness!
Sorry, but that is stupidly over-powered.
With a proposed recharge of 12 seconds, and a required lead attack, say something quick like Jagged Strike (6 second recharge), you have some what spammable devastation.
Add also to this the fact that everyones bread and butter condition remover (Mend Ailement) has been weakened... Ouch.
Sorry, but that is stupidly over-powered.
With a proposed recharge of 12 seconds, and a required lead attack, say something quick like Jagged Strike (6 second recharge), you have some what spammable devastation.
Add also to this the fact that everyones bread and butter condition remover (Mend Ailement) has been weakened... Ouch.
Alonsiddog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Look at it this way. If there was a spell that added 5 conditions (cripple, blind, dazed, deep wound, bleeding) in an area around the target would you use it?
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This gives a total cost of 4.66sec cast AND 30 energy to the assassin, 10 energy and 2 secs of casting for someone else on your team (not including fragility). You also have to rely on the fact that none of your attacks miss, especially temple strike.
In my opinion, it has too many variables (and you'd be forced into a particular armour set to pull it off) to be viable.
EDIT: By the way, this combo would NOT cause crippled, because Crippling dagger doesn't count as a lead attack, and dancing daggers (which does) doesn't cripple. Even if you added crippling dagger at the start of the combo, the person has to have their back to you AND be moving away for them to be crippled by this.
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by frojack
Add also to this the fact that everyones bread and butter condition remover (Mend Ailement) has been weakened... Ouch.
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2 Mes with FD + Frag and 2 temple zins oh
Spike 2 different targets spread from each other and watch the slaghter begin.
If the other team is unable to remove the conditions due to daze and interrupts they are going to die quickly.
FD recharge 10, frag 10, temple 12, twisted fangs 12
7 second dazed and blind. That's a 5 second down time before the next spike comes. I'm not sure duation of deep wound and bleeding as gameamp decided not to list duration.
Kariston The Swift
Already ran into a build similiar to this except they had a Concussion shot ranger , Virulence warrior, 2 FD Mesmers and a Tainted necro. Basically FD the Dazed and FD the Disease, poison and weakness from Virulence. Worked pretty well considering the tight space around the flag stand in that particular gvg map. Oh and we couldn't heal party because the mesmers had put Scourge healing on almost the whole team making the person with heal party take 200+ damage everytime they did it.
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alonsiddog
The thing is, this would have the 2 sec cast from fevered dreams.
By the way, this combo would NOT cause crippled, because Crippling dagger doesn't count as a lead attack, and dancing daggers (which does) doesn't cripple. Even if you added crippling dagger at the start of the combo, the person has to have their back to you AND be moving away for them to be crippled by this. |
Dancing Daggers is the lead off. It hits 3 times is a spell so it won't miss. Lead off attacks leave their marker for about 5 seconds. Dancing daggers recharge is 5 seconds. You can switch targets on the fly if you wanted.
You do have to hit with the attack but rigor and expose def ensures you will hit with temple + twisted while offering more cover hexes.
Crippling can come from a ranger along with poison or use virulence for poison weakness. You are going to have a ranger or mes interrupt or lock down the martyr restore condition users.
Alonsiddog
The idea the I got from your original statement was that crippling would come from the assassin. The cast of Fevered dreams is negligible, I agree, but the real trouble is 4.66sec for the assassin, and the 30 energy cost.
Here’s a list of some of the drawbacks of this combo:
· Cost of 30 energy (meaning you HAVE to have the Zodiac shroud armour set, and that’s still cutting it fine when people can drain your energy) plus the 4.66sec it takes to pull off (at 0 latency and instant human reactions)
· Requires you to rely on other people, which means you won’t be able to use it in Random Arenas
· Requires all of your attacks to hit (especially temple strike)
· It requires there to be a large group of people together for it to have maximum effectiveness
· Because you won’t be using this in random arenas, the other team will likely be highly organised and easily able to counter your strategy
Here’s a list of some of the drawbacks of this combo:
· Cost of 30 energy (meaning you HAVE to have the Zodiac shroud armour set, and that’s still cutting it fine when people can drain your energy) plus the 4.66sec it takes to pull off (at 0 latency and instant human reactions)
· Requires you to rely on other people, which means you won’t be able to use it in Random Arenas
· Requires all of your attacks to hit (especially temple strike)
· It requires there to be a large group of people together for it to have maximum effectiveness
· Because you won’t be using this in random arenas, the other team will likely be highly organised and easily able to counter your strategy
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alonsiddog
The idea the I got from your original statement was that crippling would come from the assassin. The cast of Fevered dreams is negligible, I agree, but the real trouble is 4.66sec for the assassin, and the 30 energy cost.
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2.66 for temple and twisted w/o IAS
don't be fooled by false numbers
Alonsiddog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
25 energy
2.66 for temple and twisted w/o IAS don't be fooled by false numbers |
Dancing daggers: 5 energy, 1 sec cast
Death's Charge: 5 Energy, 1 sec cast
Temple strike: 10 energy, 1.33sec (wait for the attack)
Twisted fangs: 10 energy, 1.33sec
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alonsiddog
Where do you get your numbers from? So far I've only seen it listed as:
Dancing daggers: 5 energy, 1 sec cast Death's Charge: 5 Energy, 1 sec cast Temple strike: 10 energy, 1.33sec (wait for the attack) Twisted fangs: 10 energy, 1.33sec |
You won't always need death's charge and is probly not a good idea with a 45 recharge. Its just a shadow step skill I used for the example. Zins have plenty of run skills and some cripple like caltrops.
Temple 1.33
twisted 1.33
that's 25e for dagger>temple>twisted
It doesn't matter how you look at any of the zin attacks they are all going to be expensive. Just the way it was made.
Vermilion Okeanos
Personally, you guys are arguing over abosolutely nothing... More like an ego issue than a build issue.
Guardian of the Light
Notice were argueing about a skill that we got in a preview that probably be taken out b/c so many people are whining about it.
Ya but Temple strike is pretty freaken overpowered. I mean unlike other dazes you don't need to intrupt for it and it covers up automatcally. Whatever Anet isn't dumb they probably saw this and now mybe Blindness will be taken out or something.
Ya but Temple strike is pretty freaken overpowered. I mean unlike other dazes you don't need to intrupt for it and it covers up automatcally. Whatever Anet isn't dumb they probably saw this and now mybe Blindness will be taken out or something.
ShadowMagus
None of you have apparently discovered that there is another daze skill being introduced - the ranger elite Broad Head Arrow happens to cause daze, and as far as I can discern, without requireing anything other than it hitting.
I got this information as a very plainly written fact that came with the factions pre-order package - if anyone would care to read it and confirm.
I got this information as a very plainly written fact that came with the factions pre-order package - if anyone would care to read it and confirm.
Rogmar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by frojack
Add also to this the fact that everyones bread and butter condition remover (Mend Ailement) has been weakened... Ouch.
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Edit: Didn't know you were referring to the skill updates.