Warning signs when forming a farming PUG

Any team with the following will make me leave instantly,

-more then 1 W/mo
-more then 2 W/x
-less than 2 healers, 3 if not monk primaries
-people who spam "HEAL HEAL NOW!!@!!"
-immature male elementalists, i have no idea why they their toon tends to be male...

You can probably tell i dont PuG a lot, but then again why PuG when you can solo, ask some guildies, or hench it

The rest of your post I agree with, but I must say I have had some very good experiences w/PUGs that have no monks or 1 monk. 3 monks? No group should need 3; if I am in a PUG and they are saying they need 3 monks, that's usually a sign to me that the mission is not going to go well.

^ I have always seen the need for massive healing power (aka 3+ monks) to be a sign that someone is expecting to take LOTS of damage, maybe more than 3+ monks could heal through.

I think *most* missions/quests will go fine with only 1 monk, providing that monk is not a moron.

I think to add to the OP's thought about names, I would say that anyone with any combo of P U S S Y, penis, ballsack, vagina, anal, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, etc. should also be grouped in with the pot names. Actaully on the ranking of lamewads, the pot names rank higher than the sex/sexual organ names, IMO.

@Farmermancer
I did Riverside Province way back when I was young. It was me as mesmer and 5 Warriors (a mix of /mo and /x). I had tried before and it was not easy with a monk or 2 on the team. With 5 warriors and me we finished easily. There was 2 axe wars, 2 sword wars, and a hammer war. They were all trying to see who could do the highest damage...I won! I hit a hellhound with fireball or something and got mad damage.

This is meant mostly as a tongue-in-cheek analysis of the things that will cause me to seroiusly think about leaving or boot a player from a farming PUG in SF/UW/desert/etc. It's not an angry rant by any means. It's just that after countless horrible farming PUG runs I've come up with a series of red-light indicators that help insure a bit more success.


I think the first line in here is pretty important, because I don't want to think that the PUG can't work.
I do quite a bit of farming/questing in FOW, and I've done it all through PUGs. It took me some time (nerve, actually) to start forming a PUG myself, because I didnt want to be the one to bring the group to a quick death, but after I got comfortable in FOW, I won't hesitate to form a PUG. Now, as far as those signs that may alert you to who you might have to boot or not invite, I think you do a disservice to those who might get "creative" with their names.
Bottom line is this: when you're forming that PUG (for me, at least), it's about how everyone is interacting with everyone before you even start talking about farming/quest/missions!! If people are greeting each other, and talking about their builds, and asking about what we were looking to do (going to FOW: forgemaster, spiders, or just farming?), and they're doing it in a way that's respectful to EVERYONE (i.e., no name calling), then I'll take my chances with a group like that anyday, regardless of their names. I've had far more good PUGs than bad when I go into FOW, and I dont really pay attention to names.
Besides, most problem players show that they're a problem long before you start a mission. As the group leader, it then falls on you to either keep them or boot them, right there, before you even start (tell the group why you booted that player; they'll understand and stay, as long as you're not a megalomaniac); and, it's also my reason why I'll take a chance with the infamous "newbie", because if they show they're wiling to listen, then I'll show that I'm willing to take them with me)....

That's a little too much pre-judgement for warriors I would say. Just because you have 2 wammos doesn't mean they're "wammos" as we all know them. That's why you use the other indicators like silence, all caps, names etc. In PvE there are thousands of combos that don't really do that bad at all. I remember some guy posting the screenshot of I think it was 4 wammos and a w/r with healer henches and a necro I think pwning the Lich on the last mission. In groups of 8 3 Warriors isn't too bad, and 2 is about the max of monks you should need. in parties of less than 6 you could manage with anything besides a r/mo or a w/mo playing with monk skills :P And though two is standard in groups of eight, you only need one monk if that monk is me

Two or more Monks is a crutch. Why would you want 25% of your group or more to do nothing but heal?

This wasn't about listing types of people not to group with, but warning signs.

Frankly, I've been in PuGs where the alarm bells were going, and everyone charges out like Leeeeeeeeroooooooyy, in unison, and you know what? It turns out not too badly at all. It might call for a sometimes nerve-wracking amount of improvisation, but you know, sometimes when you get aggro-mad rushers all on the same page, you'd be surprised.

Maybe even as high as 5% of the time. But it's happened. Some of the best groups I've been in, or got through some of the most difficult of missions have had a cluster---- of a start.

The people I actually list not to group with are ones that I do group with and then prove themselves to be ignorant -- and in a rude kind of way, not a naive kind of way. Inexperience I can forgive.

And re: "group forming, invite self"
Good rebuttal, thank you, and I'll take back that one. I actually do agree with much of what you say, and have been in many such groups. I probably should have elaborated better.

There are definitely people who can put together "invite-self" groups effectively. I'm referring to the ones that fill up immediately with 5 warriors, 2 rangers and then finally give up looking for a monk and take a henchie.

When people know what they're doing, you'd be amazed at what a one-monk or henchimonk team can accomplish. Some eles can make excellent support healers and a good blood necro with a BiP/Ritual + Well of Power/Blood (especially if they can ensure that the wells spew up in the middle of the battlefield where they're useful) will more than cover the shortfall. Certainly more than a 2-monk primary team where one turns out to be a 55hp.

dang, my necro's name is B L U N T Z
2 strikes already!

lol

I'll add one thing here:

I _ALWAYS_ prefer the new player that's willing to learn and asks questions to the "seasoned" vet that acts like an ass because he/she "has done this map a million times."

Maybe I made this point in the original post, but it's worth restating: Nobody is irreplacable.

Haha! I probably wouldn't care with your name except that I'd have to press space between each letter and that irritates me. However, I've partied with a lot of single named characters and had no problems. As I said before, you have to hit a few things on the list before I'm thinking "uh oh."

Its all good, i dont have problems playing or getting picked up. I play a decent necro.
But imagine trying to add those people with crazy names that you mispell a few times. I find that more annoying.

The thing I like to see the most when in 5 man Oro or FA groups is when we get a bonder monk with the skill symbiosis. which makes me go back into DWC and kick him for a new one.

I was avoiding saying this, but a series of bad groups has pushed me over:

Warriors with Ranger as their Alternate proffession in PvE are often a sign of a bad PUG, specifically skill cappers. The differences between PvP and PvE are subtle but profound. Agro control is extremely important and PvP Warriors (specifically these IWAY, troll Ungent relant "I don't need no stinkin monk" players) tend to be, shall we say, oblivious to such things.

The two skills to watch for are Troll Ungent and I Will Avenge You, obviously. Too many of these people have been playing that build in PvP so long, fame farming IWAY, that they have forgotten (if they even knew) how to play another build. And with that knowledge, goes their understanding of PvE.

There are, of course, exceptions to any rule. No offense intended to intellegent Tanks who use Rangers skills appropriately in PvE.

Well, just so ya know, my warrior spends a lot of time with ranger secondary.

I originally thought up the build in presear back in the beginning of the public GW, sort of a "Grizzly Adams" build - Str, Axe, and Beast Mastery. Bear pet, the whole nine yards. Unfortunately, that build seemed to suck ass. However, I did find that I enjoyed a slightly different variation - Str, Axe, and Wilderness Survival. I just love Apply Poison + Cyclone Axe. Yeah I'm a relative n00b when it comes to warriors, but there's just something, visceral, about an axe dripping with poison.

yeah; thats why I threw in that last bit,

I still think that the key is the short chat before you head out. Either you get along or you don't. If I'm comfortable with the people, I am tolerant of their errors, and hopeful they'll be tolerant of mine. If I'm not comfortable with them, there's likely to be a problem that reduces the level of fun.

so true...hey ele you see those three monks...and watch...I'm casting Awaken the Blood, I'm casting Arcane Echo, I'm casting Spiteful Spirit...I'm being ganked/kiting where do I have time/energy to br you...*la sigh*

agree'd with nearly all the above

few things of my own:

when im playing on my necromancer:

people who insist mm is the best build (especialy in RoF missions)
other necromancers that claim all corpses (dont even discuss it, I dont usualy use corpses but this seriously pisses me off)

people who insist I use ss, instead of, say, hex master (usualy in pvp), or FoC nuke

when im playing on my warrior

people who insist warriors are tanks (I play offinsive warriors)

people who insist warriors cannot do any damage (I am a damn good offinsive warrior)

people who bitch at me for using frenzy (best ias skill in the game, 2 competent monks should be able to heal me without problems, and still manage the rest of the group - I do not use it if I am taking large hits or numerous hits)

people who think hammers suck (I just started playing a hammer warrior,
and I find that it is often more effective than axe or sword, although I still prefer axes, I like axes)

for all groups

people that insist on a specific build without explaining why, or demand you bring a certen skill (suggestions are fine, explenations help a shitlode)

people that cannot alter their build at all (they seem to think they have the best build for all circumstances and areas)

people who refuse to list their skill set, or what they do

people who only play the well-known cookie-cutter builds

people who think suggestions for skill sets are demands and start bitching rather than make suggestions of their own or leave

people who are unable to addapt their build or use a set build in precise areas such as pvp spike builds, degen builds, hex, condition, ect.

I will edit or repost if I think of anything else, other than that which others have previously mentioned

whats so bad about some guy askin "anyone knows the way?" ... you know not everyone has played the game like 5 times...

elitist pricks

I'm not afraid to ask if people have done the mission/quest/whatever before. I'd just like to get an idea of the experience of the group I'm playing with. There's a couple of ANSWERS to that question that can be warning signs, tho:

1. "I'm a Pro at this mission..."
2. "WTF! you don't know this mission, n00b..."

It's a mistake to assume that the question is coming from a newbie.

i wont say this like that...

only because they have something in their name some wannabe PGs have, too doesnt mean they are noobs...

I don't really agree with any of that.. i've had plenty of multi-warrior groups and they've worked fine, and I would think twice about joining a group with more than one healer

This is before we 'go in'.


However, I will quit a team under a few circumstances.

a)there is a tag along who is doing NOTHING, soz, but like runners, I NEVER play with tag alongs.

b)There is constant bickering/WTB messages between 3 or more players. It gives me a headache.

c)The team left before I was setting up skills.

d)I am forced to do something in real life (I always give notice) but most of the time i just go AFK when that happens and catch up.


Quitting a team is a right, not to be abused I admit as it effects other people who are innocent of any wrong doings, but I will quit. It's my time that's getting wasted else.

I have solo (heal) monked though every mission in the game (with real players, including THK AND all RoF missions, being the only monk in the team). You simply don't need much healing with good, organised PuG teams and a good PvE monk build.

My point

monks who think the whole gw world revolves around them and think they should get special treatment are the worst, which unfortunately are most monks at the moment since children think monk=license to be abusive.
one example was a team in tombs and on the start of map 3 the monk stated that unless he was given the bulwark if it drops and any ectos he would leave. needless to say he was told no and he left, my orders necro healed the whole group for the remainder of the run and we all got a green (shame i got the crappy ogre knife), and no bulwark dropped
but yeah monks seem to be the worst classes for crappy attitudes and in my experience warriors of any secondary have always been fine give or take one or 2

If a Character is playing a MM build, i see no problem with this, as a MM is effectivly made useless if you have to share corpses, i cannot see any situation where that corpse is better used by anouther necro

remember this is a TEAM game, and a MM will make the best use of the corpse, helping the team


And to OP, #4 - Many people play on laptops with slow 4200rpm hard drives, and 256megs of ram, my guildie has >30second load times, and he is one of the best players i know

I really have nothing against it, unless it's the person organizing the party who does this, especially if they've advertised the PuG as being a "pro" group, which I've encountered many, many times. I presented it the way I did purely for humor value. YMMV.

Good points, and to broaden point b, there's the people who notice a drop and start incessantly calling "Can I have the ecto? I need it for my armor. Can I have the ecto...? Waaaaaaahh..." etc.

However, it might just be me, but I don't leave the party for these reasons. Back to and including the Betas, I've only left a party nine times (not including disconnects), and each one was after disputes with a party member who just would not leave things be. In most cases, I believe I can confidently say that most other party members supported my decision or at least understood it.

onyo, alone the name isn't a problem but if you see another sign or two, you are starting to see a trend.

Does he have a "bad name"?
Does he spam LFG?
In caps?
While his last call of LFG is still on the screen?
Is he trying to get everyone hurried into the mission even though some of them might not be ready?

Some missions you can get by on with jerks. Some you can't. If you are one you can't you have to act.

How about this, I was with a secondary profession, the warrior I belive, with a friend. The monk had 105 health, well maybe he is doing the 55 bit so I offered him one my extras, he said he had one.

My warrior did not bring any healing spells, but I run monk as secondary, because I standing over dead comrades with a black res sig, I spent more time resing that monk than he spent healing the team.

For me the reason i leave is ego and mostly this Annoying line

WTF

I have a high tolerance for most PuG situations. However, I did leave a Dunes bonus group because someone thought it would be a good idea to watch a cinematic WHILE the group was being attacked by Losaru. Being the monk, I was dead when gameplay resumed...

Leechers love to get into bonus groups and try to wrangle a mission completion out of it. I mind when it becomes apparent that they aren't prepared for the challenge (not infused, running into traps, lvl 5 pet, etc).

Well lets see so far I would be out of most pugs for a couple reasons. One on my necro I don't run your build I run my own so no one would want me even though I do a good job. Two my husband and I have similar names on our main characters so I guess that means we suck; and third my monk has a name that seems stuck up but given the context of why I named her that it was a joke within the guild but because on its own it seems stuck up I guess no one will want her...oh well

(btw my monks name is you gotta have me but that is because we had another female monk named u no u need me and another named u no u want me (they are sisters and two of my friends) and a male monk named spank your monk ey so its a running joke but because the name seems stuck up i wont get pugs...darn oh well...at least me guildies like having me in thier group no matter what char im on)

Or 'Prince'? ^^

I have a really really big chat window.

When I played a monk, my biggest warning signs were elementalists and some tanks with rushing attitudes. Why? Well, most often times I would get into a group with an ele, and I like them, but alot of them act like they're tanks or invincible, and if they die, they decide it's all your fault for not healing them, when you were chain healing them the entire time, or trying to. It's like, you feel like pulling them aside and saying, "I know, I know, your spells make a big boom boom, and everybody dies, it's ok, I wasn't trying to be mean to you or anything. But you know, with things that make great big boom boom, you have to take great responsibility into HOW you use that boom boom, ok? Your armor isn't exactly the greatest, try staying back here with me." Or the Warrior that expects me to go charging in after him, and healing him, even though there's 8-10 mobs surrounding him, even when another warrior isn't on the same target but closer to me so I can heal him and the rest of the group. I've had a warrior cus me out many times over this, and even had the pleasure of hearing, "Well, I don't want a monk on my team that's afraid of a little dirt." Excuse me but, ever play a monk? If you have, and I made a video of what you just pulled and showed it to you, you would slap yourself.

When I play an MM (I like orders too), my biggest annoyance was a W/N stealing my corpses when MMing by using putrid explosion constantly, even though they knew I was a MM before we started. I never said anything though to this person, and summoned what minions I could and finished the mission with them. No biggy really, maybe they just had no idea that I needed those corpses or something. Oh, and also as mentioned before by somebody, when people are always wanting a BR, if I'm using orders, fine, if I'm an MM I don't have BR with me, and all my other spells are to keep me and the minions alive.

When I played a W/Mo, I thought it was really fun for a long time, but I tried not to be the typical moron in groups as one, in a way though, that's kind of what people expect from you. Go there! Pull! Don't pull! Too many! And people drawing on the mini-map really confuses me as a warrior, because sometimes they look like they want you to pull, but actually, they're just drawing or something, and not serious. What gives, lol. A really funny story out of that character is that I did Hells Precipice with all warriors after not being able to find a group and there being too many W/Mo's there. I was like, "How ya guys doin? Boy, this is gonna SUCK! lol" Surprisingly, we all took care of ourselves and passed the mission with alot of ease actually. Once we got to droks we all just laughed a little, and it was, see ya.

When I played a Ranger, I did most of the missions and everything with henches, because at the time, most people thought rangers useless until higher levels, where they needed that Winter from you, but nothing really else important. With this character I refused to play the typical R/Mo roll though, and I liked it. R/Me.

When I played a Mesmer, Well, I don't think I need to go into details about bad PuG groups, because there hardly were any, I henched it a majority of the time, and got pretty good, or so I think, at taking down multiple enemies and punishing spell casters anyway. Groups still aren't looking for me, but sometimes I'll see a group leader who invites me right away, gives me the feeling they know I'm not a useless addition, which is nice. Deleted my warrior though, wasn't interesting enough after a while for me.

I pretty much pass on anyone that just up and invites me without any warning at all. To me this usually means" We can't get any interest in our group by advertising the formation of it." I find that most people have a sort of cyber-sixth sense about sorry groups. It's strange. Kind of like when you can feel you are being watched.

People who join the group and then don't say anything, not even a greeting. That says to me that they have trouble communicating and that isn't cool.

I generally avoid PUGs like the plague though tbecause in all honesty I have yet to meet a competent one. The one major exception is trapping groups. I always get good trapping groups for UW. THK has put me right off PUGs I've made 27 attempts at that stupid mission with various PUGs. Law of averages states that I should have gotten through by now. The closest I ever came was me and one guildie monk with a group of henchies made it to the last wave and then lost. Finally I decided I don't need spike trap that badly and said screw it.

lol how about people who state their rank in pve areas?

I type LFG in maguuma stade at 4am in the morning

My rules for PUGS and Farming Groups...

This is going to get the OP mad...but anybody that acts like MelechRic...I leave.

The type that think their Gods of what their doing and they dont have the time or patience for anything other than getting a robot person to fit the little role they need for farming...He seems like the type that will Flip out and Leave the second you use a skill that he didnt tell you to bring, or the second he sees you are a W/Mo or have "dooby" in your name...WTF. I can see the OP being in a group, and the leader calls a target he didnt like or something and him blowing up, showing off his weapons and/or rank and/or armor w/e, RageQuiting, and PMing everyone in the group calling them NoobCakes or w/e name the elitists prefer today. Thats just what I get from his post >_> I sensed that attutide from the start of reading the post. If I misjudged...sorry, and thats even better because I'd hope'd that all the elitists would have died by now.

Other than that, I have a huge tolerance for many things. Basically the only people that make me LEAVE groups are Elitist 'holes that think the group should form around them. Espeically in missions and stuff...people are free to bring what they want.

If some Leeroy or other PvE annoyance happens...thats cool..we die, and everyone exchanges their "WTF NOOB!"s and I find another group.