Conspiracy theory time! :D

Okay, first of all. I knew pretty much what kind of game GuildWars was before it hit the shelves because I'd played on one of the alpha-weekends.

It's just... I notice there are a lot of people who seem to have bought GW under the impression it was a free MMORPG. More specifically, I read this: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=137542

I'm pretty sure it's just a disgruntled MMORPG fan and I didn't give it all that much thought at the time. But I've noticed that there are actually an aweful lot of people that bought this game soley for the PvE and feel cheated.

So, anyway. I checked he website and read some reviews and... wow, if I hadn't already played the game I'd have thought it was a MMORPG, too.

Disclaimer: This thread isn't to be taken seriously. I'm not bashing PvE, so please put the pitchforks down (eat pun, nubcakes!). I think it's important that people understand that the campaign mode shouldn't be compared to MMORPG's and that perhaps ANet misrepresented GuildWars as such.

So, to the good stuff... (Taken from GuildWars.com)

Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?
"Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment."
- I'm not sure what this has to do with MMO's, most games keep online modes seperate from (if) any single player modes for security reasons. Example: Diablo.

"Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world."
- Yeah, AKA the intarweb. Everyone playing Diablo "inhabit the same virtual world" over so slightly more so than how two people reading the same book "inhabit the same imaginary world".

"Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place."
- Wait... Isn't that what actually makes them MMOs? Example: Pretty much every game that lets you play the same content as someome else without making you all play together.

"This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs"
- Oh, now I understand... wait... huh? What's this game got to do with MMOs again?

"Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game)."
- I should hope so, considering it isn't an MMORPG any more than Diablo*. So, why do you keep comparing your CORPG to MMORPGs?
*Think about it, chat channels and towns aren't all that different.


The general impression I get is that when asked directly they admit it's not a MMORPG, yet they seem to always compare it to MMORPGs. The fact there's no subscription fee isn't even relevant because it isn't a MMORPG...

So, opinions? Do you think it was a huge conspiracy to bring in some sales from the MMORPG crowd? Do you think they were fair when comparing their game to "other" MMORPGs? Feel free to add your own and/or refute the comments on what I've quoted.

Ps. Remember, I knew what I was buying, I like what I bought. So I don't really care, but in retrospect I do think it was a rather shamefully misleading. I wont be so quick to tell someone who complains at the lack of PvE content "you bough the wrong game" in the future.

It seems fairly obvious to me.

This is clearly saying that the game is instanced, and therefore not a massively multiplayer game. How is this in any way trying to trick people into thinking it's massively multiplayer in the regular sense?

They're pointing out that they did it on purpose because there are a lot of "frustrating" aspects to playing everything along with everyone else. I've never played another MMORPG but I hear the main problems are kill stealers, people blowing through everything ahead of you, etc. Again, I fail to see how this is intended to trick someone into thinking they're buying the same old MMORPG game.

They reason they're contrasting guild wars to regular MMORPGs is because at the time of release, the market was being inundated with everquest/WoW style MMORPGs that mostly followed the same archetype, and it was obvious that coming out with an online role-playing game, comparisons would be drawn and assumptions would be made.

Hang on, how can people feel cheated with the PvE environment. its bloody huge, I paid £30 for this game and have had more than enough value for money, people seem to try to compare guild wars with WoW, city of hero's/villians, its a totally different experience, and looks a damn site better to boot. Also it's alot more of a challenge doing a quest/mission with only 8 members. Anyway, I don't think many people will be disappointed with guildwars.

I doubt most people who feel cheated even bothered to research the game in the slighest outside the box.

Meh, screw those people. What the hell would you expect for a one off price?

My personal favorite misrepresentation of the game was a game reviewer for a major game magazine who said that there was nothing to do after you ascended your character. Obviously, did not spend enough time with the game.

Ah, yes. That is a much better word for it. But still, they're holding up apples and oranges together. Whether it's to point out the differences/similarities doesn't change that Anet seemed to be trying to snag some of the MMORPG crowd. How many FPS games released during the same month were bragging that there was no monthly subscription fee?

Obviously I don't think this is a real conspiracy, afterall they did have the open beta weekends etc. So if you made an effort you'd have known exactly what you were buying.

That was the POINT. That was the REASON the comparisons/contrasts were made. Anet was appealing to the people who normally played MMOs, but didn't like certain things about them, showing GW as a haven from 'killstealers' and 'pkers' and whatnot.

I don't feel cheated in PvE... I just wish there was a more solid story.

And I never regret getting the game.

Greedy Gus pretty much said the bulk of what I wanted to say on the issue, in better words than I could have put it too.

In addition to the points made above:

There is a big issue with the separateness of pvp and pve. I tend to view pvp as the endgame component of pve. i.e. you spend time developing and readying your character in pve play for the tournament and guild battle in pvp. Its a good reason why you would want to get the best items and armour for your character.

I always thought of Guild Wars pvp as the natural extension to finishing the pve campaign. And in my opinion, thats where the fun really starts. IF you look at the only the pve instances in GW in isolation then it is incomplete.

The skillset throughout the beta was always balanced on pvp play, then adapted for pve to sort of train you in how to use said skills in combinations and beat certain skill combinations with counters of your own. I can see why Guild Wars was compared early on to Magic: The Gathering.

Over time pve has kind of become its own game with players reluctant to play tournament and guild battle. Farming basically becomes the endgame for the pve component and I agree, it is tedious, degrading and more often than not extremely boring stuff.

And that is a shame because the greatest strength of Guild Wars, in my humble opinion is in its skill system, in character building, in team building and in the fine balance of all the skills and classes. It is the most elegant combat system in any online fantasy game I have ever played. Hands down.

Alot of people tend to treat the pve Guild Wars component as if it were like that of WoWs. And if you approach GW with a view to comparing it to WoW, you will be dissappointed. Because GW doesnt even try to do what WoW does. The storyline in GW is insultingly bad for a start and alot of the game areas seem to be empty corridors made to look like mountain ranges. And the designers appear to have a paint brush tool for monsters and simply painted them across vast swathes of the continent with little consideration to tactical vantage points or anything like that.

However, if you are willing to let that slide and look in depth at the game's strengths then you may find yourself hooked. But it should be made clear from the start that expecting GW to be anything other than GW will probably lead to disappointment. If you dropped your preconceptions about what MMORPG pve games should be like and got into Guild Wars skill system you might find yourself enjoying this game in a way which you could not with any other generic MMO.

If you treat Guild Wars like Diablo II and grind endlessly using cookie cutter builds ripped from the tyrian explorer's league then you will be sorely dissappointed. Items in Diablo II made a difference to your character. A big difference. In Guild Wars, the difference is almost always in the look and nothing else. So naturally the experience will feel somewhat more vacant.

Conspiracy theories? I love conspiracy theories!!!! And now, I'll go back and read the thread...

Bah, nothing new or exciting. If you told me that ANet was really an outgrowth of a centuries old secret society responsible for everything from Franz Ferdinand's assassination to the Crusades to sliced bread, that they were plotting secretly with "teh evil terrorists" to "destroy freedom" and drink the blood of your aborted babies while flying their planes into the headquarters of rival game companies, and hiding subliminal messages deep in the fabric of the Guild Wars engine to encourage young upstanding citizens to become corrupt, lazy, and degenerate...

Now that would be cool.

Some guy complaining (no offense Metanoia) about people complaining that Guild Wars isn't really an MMORPG? Hardly worthy of sharing the high-hundred channels with the likes of the CG Dinosaur channel and the Homes with Roller Coasters in them channel.

MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game

Is Guild Wars missing any of these elements ?

Personally, I feel this guy got it right.

Everyone sees free online play on the box, looks at it a bit more thinks its an MMORPG, and just up and buys the game without researching anything about it.

Then when they find its not what they expected, they are disappointed and come to the forums to complain, where we all shoot them down and make them feel stupid for thinking GW was going to be something else.

Yes indeed.

It's massive in the cities

*is incredibly offended*

That's mean... I added emotes-n-disclaimer and everything.

Devil's advocate, anyone?

I've been on the opposite end of the discussion before, figured I'd learn something new...

Ps. Nice post, Fire Childe. Your way of explaining that seems to go down a lot better than my "PvE is basically just a tutorial"... Pitchfork wounds itch something aweful.

And they won't buy Factions which is more of the same and the tiny proportion of players who find GW PvP accessible and enjoyable plus the ones that still haven't realised GW PvE sucks won't provide enough funds for the next chapter or to run the servers and GW will fade away leaving those who were doing the shooting here to stand around holding their dicks.

~100 people is not massive.

Glorified chat channels don't count anyway.

Edit: Double, I'd be surprised if PvE-only players weren't in fact the minority. Maybe a few polls are in order to find out?

I don't know what to make of this guy's post...some of it seems very plausible, some of it sensationalistic.

A company's got to do what it can to survive. As far as being deliberately evil, I don't really see it. Who's to guess what motivations ArenaNet has for what they do? Even though this guy is a lot closer to the company than I am, his tendency to jump to conclusions and imply wickedness in every deed doesn't do much for his credibility.

What if you were about to release a game, had a bunch of employees underneath you (some of whom you may have actually liked), and realized you could make a lot more money with a few adjustments? What if you later realized that people were more interested in that new aspect of the game than another?

Business is evolutionary in nature. People change, trends change, tastes change, and you have to change to make it.

I bought GuildWars because I thought it was a pure MMORPG and I like the pricing structure. I think a lot of people did. Now that I have it, I'm not entirely unsatisfied with it (although I do want to see some changes).

I'm continuing to look forward to the changes in GW, especially on the MMORPG side. I think that PvP and PvE can achieve a balance, without sacrificing content. I think you can have instant level 40s or 60s instead of capping at level 20. There are so many possibilities...

Of course, if GW makes an evolutionary misstep, then they too will eventually die. But I'm sure they're aware of this, and are doing what they can to make sure that doesn't happen. If you want to call survival a selfish act, then so be it. It is.

For my part, I definitely won't be throwing GW any more lifelines if I don't see more MMORPG content, plain and simple. And unless they think they can compete with the "scope and scale" of WoW or DDO, they can just forget the whole monthly fee thing (if it ever even came up).

So what if Anet got rid of the dumb concept of levels entirely? I'd still play - heck, I'd be even more interested. More arbitrary numbers ftl.

Yea know what i have to say to guy who wrote that. He has no idea what rpg is. I reread the hole thing. You don't need levels to make it an rpg. You need role playing. That is what makes rpg fun.

Even D&D online has a level cap!

I also have to state there is alot of game makers out there that try to make a real rpg game. the holy grail of rpg game makers is to make the perfect rpg game. In a game it is hard to do, thus you get some type of grind in all rpg games.




I do think anet cares about who plays this game. as for MMORPG I think gw is MMORPG.

You have to give Anet a break they are a new company. They are going to make their mistakes.

However it does make you wonder with some of the other points.


"but certain elements essential to RPGs like character developments and uniqueness, legendary weapons and armor, trading and crafting systems, are all basically non-existent in Guild Wars"

I would agree with this too.


If any one has the beta box. It does say on the box

" It's about having fun

With personally spawned missions for all groups, guild Wars focuses on what's fun in a role-playing game "

I wonder what is writen on the newer games boxies, because when I was talking to someone on the net. he or she had said there were no rpg list on the back of the box.

On My CE there is nothing stating pvp or rpg on the box! I don't have the top part of CE so I cannot comfirm pvp or rpg.


As to anet I know your small company, You have done great job. I know how hard it is make in the game business. You have something great in your hands. This game could be the best selling game on the market. You need to add these great things in the game to make it rock. I think anet needs to resech pvp a little more and rpg a little.

I actually had a question based on that in my original post, decided to stick to quotes though...

Why is there a level system in the game at all? If you think about their original goal/concept, there's no real reason for it except as a kind of mini-grind* to keep people playing the campaign.

*Grind: What some "RPGs" use to give people a sense of purpose if the plot isn't exactly enthralling and/or the gameplay itself isn't reason enough to play.

This brings you back to the "Was GW misrepresented as a free pseudo-MMORPG" question.

Of the people still playing the game PvE-only players may be a miniority though I doubt it.

GvG is the best PvP that GW has to offer. I look at the ladder and the bottom of the top 1000 is full of guilds which have only played one game. Unless there are a whole bunch of guilds which consistently loose (what fun that must be) I doubt there are more than 1000 guilds which regularly GvG. Say a generous 20 members each and that is 20,000 players - a tiny proportion (2%) of the 1 million+ that purchased Prophecies.

GW has been funded mostly by people who no longer play, maybe they were happy and will come back for another helping with Factions, maybe they won't and GW is dead.

Progression and items are the two most addictive elements in an MMORPG. Do you really think that leveling is "dumb?" How many people do you think would buy GW if they knew they could get to the max level in the first day of playing?

I've been playing RPGs for almost 22 years (starting with pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons when I was 8). Yes, RPGs are about storyline. But if you don't have progression, and acquisition....you don't have an RPG at all. You have a board game, or a movie.

I bought this game because I was getting a MMORPG with better graphics than anything out there, and a better pricing structure. If Guild Wars had the graphics and pricing structure that it has, as well as the items and progression of the other games (and perhaps a Z axis), it would absolutely rule the market.

What I say stands. Even though this game isn't a traditional MMORPG, I play it for those aspects. A ton of people do, I'm sure. If I don't see a move to continuously increase and update MMORPG content, as well as increasing levels...then I simply won't buy.

And for the record, the #1 complaint I hear about this game is the level cap.

PS. Yes, D&D online has a level cap...but there are 5 ranks to each level, and 10 levels (for a total of 50 levels), and clear intentions to increase the level cap in the future.

yes i do

i am level 1 and have a level 1 fireball that kills the level 2 monsters in 2-3 hits.
i am level 5 and have a level 5 fireball that kills the level 7 monsters in 2-3 hits.
i am level 10 and have a level 10 fireball that kills the level 12 monsters in 2-3 hits.
i am level 20 and have a level 20 fireball that kills the level 22 monsters in 2-3 hits.
i am level 40 and have a level 40 fireball that kills the level 42 monsters in 2-3 hits.
i am level 400 and have a level 400 fireball that kills the level 420monsters in 2-3 hits.
OMG I RULZ THE NOOBZ

LOOK AT MY GREAT PROGRESS
where is the increase in challenge?
where is anything changing except the number?

according to the sales figures a whole lot of them in spite of the screams of anguish at the level cap

and still they keep buying it

which it is not and one thing they are adamant on is no level increase just so grinders can hold their heads above the little people going look how elite i am and i have the level number to prove i am superior to you

EDIT

and i was rolling the funny dice 30+ years ago

The difference is at level 2 with your level 2 fireball you can't kill a level 40 creature. That's a progression. It's relative. It's less challenging now that you're more skilled. You can increase the challenge by fighting level 9 monsters with your level 7 fireball. Should I explain it more slowly?


Umm, did you read the post the guy put up? He said that GW misrepresented the fact. Did you know that there was a level 20 cap before you bought the game?

Umm, I'm going to look at the preview, and buy only if the PvE content added is on equal footing with the PvP.

I bought this game because I watched the videos posted on Guildwar's site, and got the impression that it was an MMORPG. And again, I'm not entirely disappointed. But I'm not paying more unless I see more on the PvE side.

That's what I plan on doing.

And I guess all they have are elite skills, FoW armor, Grotto Armor, special emotes, special capes, etc. to serve that purpose instead.

Good for you.


Someone else said in an earlier post that a lot of people were disappointed because they didn't research the game ahead of time, thought it was an MMORPG, and found out otherwise. Well, yeah...if I'm hungry for Jumbo Shrimp, I see a box that has a bunch of pictures of Jumbo Shrimp, buy it and find out it's imitation crab...well, I don't have the time to do a full research into every $50 purchase I make. As the OP said, if you look at the web site, it's easy to jump to that conclusion.

the programmers actually have a program they use to keep the challenge level status at a specified level +/- x and carefully guide you to each new higher creature just when it is right for you at that point in development.

to be a challenge does not have to be an arbitrary number increase.


since i was in the earlier beta events and had a wonderful time with having a level cap ..............ummmm YES I DID KNOW

i enjoy being a level 20 in a level 20 world and not being forced to grind to keep up or have a pvelitist being snobbish

[/QUOTE]

One thing that I do before buying a game is look up a few articles about it, or just simply pick up the box and read the contents of it to see what I may be getting in to. Other games that I have bought this way usually explain themselves better, some don't, and guild wars was one that didn't. My box reads...

free online play* Enjoy free online play with the security of gameplay hosted by arenanet servers. Explore a world that dynamicalliy grows and changes with new content while you play.
(picture note: a monk ressurects his ally in ascalon)

Craft your Hero* Create your avatar from over thirty different profession combinations and hundreds of unique skills that combine for escalated power.
(picture note: A warrior seeks ascension in the Crystal Desert)

It's your adventure* Jump right into a world of thousands where each mission is created just for you. Live a fast paced adventure without travel time delay, high death penalties, or spawn camping. Join with friends or play solo with a band of skillful henchmen.
(picture note: A warrior battles a Drake in Kryta)

Be the Best* Ascend as a team to the highest levels of competition, a truly global tournament to control the Hall Of Heroes. World fame and fortune await the victors.
(picture note: The Hall of Heroes) (side note by me: looks like a kingdom of some kind with serpent statues.)

back of the box...

Your Skill Will Be Your Legend* You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing at the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory or defeat. Are you up for the challenge?
(side note by me: This to me suggests that I can either battle monsters or compete in tournaments, either way it's my choice.)

Anticipate your opponents* Each attack has a signature sound and look. Learn attack cues to gain the advantage.

Lead through Action* Communicate targets and initiate strategic attacks without typing. Interface automatically alerts your team of your actions.

Multiply your power* Combine skills from two different professions, link them yourself or chain them with a teammate's skills to devestate your enemies.
(side not by me: There is no mention of what your enemies are, but there's a big picture of a what looks like a warrior/ele using a bow on a bone dragon)

A Deadly Combination* strike with a hamstring attack to cripple your fleeing opponent, then rain fire down upon him as he slowly limps away.

end of quoting box.

Now, since I don't spend a whole lot of time trying to beta games before I buy them, because I simply don't have the time, I don't think I should be called stupid for thinking this was an MMORPG. If on the other hand, I saw pictures of a group of idiots playing capture the flag, with which I'm quite familiar (along with a ton of other PvP games), I would of set this puppy down and not spent 50 bucks on it, because I have other games I can have alot more fun at PvPing with other people. Also the word "Guild" implies more of a MMORPG setting than anything to me, and yes, even in MMORPG's there are times where two guilds will battle eachother because of dislike or whatever, that's the interesting part of being in a guild, also the help and friendships you get from being in one. I haven't seen the word Guild being introduced into a PvP setting before, but it was kind of an interesting touch to it. I don't gain high death penalties from dying? No spawn camping? Join with friends or play solo? Sounds like an interesting game to me, with the OPTION to be PvP or PvE only in the character creation screen... cool. I'm sold, how much more research do I need to do?

Strategy in realtime* coordinate team assaults on the fly to outmaneuver your opponents.

Her i found a link with a picture of the beta box.

notice what it says about RPG

http://www.gweurope.net/images/preor...20-%20Back.jpg

I think you can zoom in and read what it says.

note it says "Guild Wars focuses on what's fun in a role-playing game"

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive...e-Playing_Game



-http://pc.ign.com/articles/695/695213p1.html

^_-

*That's a raised eyebrow, incase you didn't know.*

There are a lot of other reviews similar to this one. I can understand how some people could have actually read some of them and got the impression GW was a MMORPG.

Don't give me the "It is a MMORPG" line. The PvE world is about as dynamic as a plank of wood. There is no shared world and nothing changes. The only possible thing I can think of are towns which are nothing but chat channels with a few merchants. The only dynamic element in GW that I can think of are the NPC merchants... hardly qualifies the game as a MMO now, does it?

ANet's fault/intention or sloppy p/reviews?

ok, here we go.

IF - you like the game, play if
IF - you dont like the game, dont play it

There are far worse companies doing FAR FAR more evil things than placing a "cap on lvl 20 0mFg0Rz".

Nike for instance...

Meh, people who complain about the level cap don't get it.

The game is all about using your skills, not level grinding your character to level 80 so you can pwn people.

What sold me on GW was this phrase " the mmorpg for people who hate mmorpgs"

Really traditional mmo's have alot of things to complain about. XP stealers, loot stealers, losing XP on DP, monthly fees, and no level caps.

In GW none of these are present, which makes it the game for me. But since GW is so unique and there are alot of mmo's out there that share the same characteristics it seems to be a waste of time complaining about how GW isn;t liek other mmo's.

But I've found there seems to be a good amount of people who want all things mmo in GW since it has awesome graphics and gameplay. Oh well, too bad. lol

-removed, it was unnecessary. Sorry, I D E V I A N C E I.-

It's not about whether you like the game or not, I do. It's about all those people that bought it under the assumption that it was a free MMORPG, which is isn't.

It's not about the level cap, PKing, KSing etc. It's about GW just NOT being an MMO game. It's like pitching Solitair as the card game for people who hate MMORPGs because it doesn't have KSing, Pking or monthly fees...

blah ok, but it was more in response to the people that were implying they were duped ( which they may wll have been ). Still, the underlying question of whether you like the game or not remains. It may or may not me an MMORPG, but does this ACTUALLY matter if you enjoy playing it?
Also, in reality, the implied evilness of ANet is NOTHING compared to a vast number of exploitive companies. Just bear that in mind.

I remember the game not being a MMORPG when I bought it but a CORPG (co-operative online roleplaying game) and from what I've noticed during the almost 1 year time I've played, that hasn't changed. And when I started I knew there was a lvl20 cap, I knew many things about the game, I did research. The game did NOT dissapoint me.

When I think RPG (for a computer), I think something like Pool of Radiance. Not my only experience, but the one that fit me best. GW to me is like Pool of Radiance, levels, certain quests/missions open up other quests/missions, a bit of a plot. But GW is also MMO compared to Pool of Radiance. I use teh intarweb?! Maybe its not the same as WoW, etc. Would you rather compare it to WoW or to a FPS or Pool of Radiance? I'd rather compare it to the MMORPGs. And no comparing to anything the masses (such as myself) wouldn't have heard of. You can compare for those whose experience in MMORPGs is miniscule (I heard of Lineage II a bit from a friend...), or you can compare for those who really know their games (GW is like X, where X is unknown by those who aren't into hardcore gaming). Reviewing for both is not as reasonable as some of us might wish.

I did my tiny bit of research, and thought it was cool; no pking, camping, no monthly fee. Knowing I'm not picky about games, that was enough for me. If you're picky about your games, you probably should do more research, unless you don't mind throwing away your money...

People that get GW after playing other MMOs are basically pissed cause they can't cheat as easily as they used to in other MMOs. Looting and thievery are not a problem in instances as quite simply, there is no way for a looter to invade a private instance. No more following a mass player party out of town and make them do all the major work for you while you trail behind and pickup the goodies... Sorry, no soup for you!

That's all they are normally upset about. WoW players actually playing the game. What a concept... Sarcasm intended...

Oh well that and the LACK of grind required in the game. IE the lev 20 cap... That always pisses people off too. but I don't know why. Basically in WoW if your less then level 30 your worthless and cannot get picked up in a decent party(and it takes quite a bit of Power grinding to get to that point). In GW just about everyone is going to be max level rather quickly (normally by the time they reach Lion's Arch, unless run). So that specifically is never a problem. Sure GW has its own issues with rank and such but that in the very limited PvP part of the game. The expanded PvE world (soon to be two LARGE & full maps, Tyria and Cantha) outside of the battle isle is vastly more accepting of general populace. Most of the rankest PvP crew like their little world just the way it is. So I tend to just lock them in that bottle and not have them bother me as much anymore by playing more PvE missions and quests... And I am SOOO much the better for it...

Okay, now I'm curious. Is there some unwritten rule that after a topic reaches page 2 people just stop reading the whole thing and post the same tired-missing the point-thing over and over?

That is the entire point. GW IS NOT A MMORPG. Many people bought the game under the assumption it was a MMORPG. Some careless reviews even refer to it as a MMORPG. There is a fundamental difference between a multiplayer online game and a massively multiplayer online game. Saying GW is a MMORPG without the bad things associated with MMORPGs is a fallacy, it just isn't a MMORPG to begin with.

You see, I've played a few MMORPGs and for the most part, it was a lot of fun. This doesn't mean I don't like Guild Wars, I like it a lot. They're just completely different things.

=HT=Ingram, keep those kind of trash talking comments to yourself. No one cares which you think is better, it's already been said: Apples and Oranges. It's about people feeling they've been sold an orange painted green.

where is the rpg?