stopping the monk invasion

Wtf Is A 55 Monk??? :d

lol a bit more searching would usually be required for me to answer, but I'll give in..just this once

A 55 monk is a monk that uses 5 superior runes and a -50 offhand to drop his HP down to 55. The monk then uses Protective spirit so that damage to him is about 5 per hit.

Aha I see, and I still dont understand what is it with all these "ebay" characters...

People make bots then rush them through the game then power level them to 20 slap on 55 gear and run them through a programed path to farm for them remotely. These people leave their computers on all day and build up a large sum of money which they then sell on ebay (which is against Arena Net's legal note) for money. And since it is against Arena Net's policy to sell Guild Wars related merchandise (which include ingame items and cd keys) unless given their consent, I believe Arena Net has an ongoing effort to stop bot users. I hope that clarified some things for you.

This will probably get flamed to hell and back but as a radical "solution" to the problem of farm botting - the only reason it exists on an industrial scale is because there are people out there prepared to pay real world cash for virtual items/gold.

Hence no matter what Anet do, others will try to work around it to continue the farming. Altering the crystal desert has now shifted a chunk of those industrial farming outfits to here it seems. So what next? Alter the new spot? They'll just go look for, and farm, somewhere else. All because they can make real world money out of it.

So, a radical idea - Anet, sell Gold etc. yourself officially, at rates same as/lower than the industrialists. Legalise it in such a way that it's still against EULA for others to sell stuff, but OK from Official Source i.e. Anet, maybe that might put the industrial farmbots out of business. If they drop their prices, drop yours, until eventually they go out of business.

I'm not sure but I think maybe Sony or some other mmog producer offers something similar?

Note: this is something I'm personally on the fence about (the idea), I don't personally condone of ebaying for gold etc and this is just an idea. Discuss, don't flame

Ok I gotch anow thanks for clearing things up for me! Bastard bot makers....

They would have removed the offhand ages ago if they thought it was an issue.

Making redundant runes have no effect converts every 55 monk into a 55 ele.

Great idea...

Lol i just went to look at these again in Droks ID1.. what is all that speech anyway? Are they trying to sell things?

I don't really have much to add, but I think the 55 monk should be stopped as a farming mechanism. You only need to look at its primary attribute to get an idea of what was really intended. And you only need to look in the monk forum (anywhere) to see what most people see it as. Unfortunately I think the time for anything to happen to protective spirit or rune stacking would have been among the skill updates at the start of this month, if anything were ever going to, so I'm resigned to it never being fixed. But I'll still complain about it.

As for rune farming, there's no problem with that as far as I can see. If it's abused - like the griffons were, the prices drop so that most runes are low prices, and the minor chance of a super vigour/absorb makes it barely worth the time expenditure in looking for them. A similar case to green item farming, it's all self regulating.

I also have a short story on a different but related topic about someone I know who did buy ebay money last week. He was scammed out of 100k through means of which it's not my business to relate, and felt dejected at the thought of farming (solo - warrior) it again. So he bought it back (and overcompensated I'll add). In the realm of wild but undisprovable speculation I don't consider it impossible that some of these ebay sellers scam GW money and then sell it for dollars. They're not playing for fun, they're playing for profit, and you can bet your life there's no real laws against it.

Heres a concept. Only allow decent drops for full parties... I could respect that...

Full parties % chance of Gold and Purple drops.
(Greens only possible in full parties) (Greens not possible with henchies)

1/2 party % chance of Purples... (Make Globs of Ecto and Shards and Gems equivilant to purple drops.)

solo White only for salvage purposes... (otherwise how can you ever be expected to craft anything...)

Better yet. Eliminate the trade button, make every drop instantly customized for the person finding it. Thus they can either use it, or salvage it, or sell it to a NPC, and thats it. As I had said from the beginning.

I wont flame you, but I do disagree. If Anet sold gold, that would throw the whole economy out of control. People would pay say $50 bucks for 1mil gold or something and then could go on a buying spree that would jack up rune/dye merchant prices throwing that out of control. Then they might move onto buying runs/powerleveling services to reach ascended level 20 faster. That idea would also make prices soar high. Imagine a rare 15^50 longbow +1 marks 20% at about 80k maybe? Basicly, people that cant afford buying gold wouldn't have any chance of buying decent/good items or runes (not to mention get runs either as that would rise as well). So all in all, I don't think that plan of yours will ever work.

--edit--
If that were to happen, the ballance between golds, purples, and whites would be ruined. Golds would be worth significantly less as would purples. Basicly, you are throwing the whole idea of rares and commons right out the window (not to mention you would be making whites more expensive than it currently is). As for your idea of getting rid of the trade function, you're getting rid of player interaction which is key in most games such as Guild Wars.

Yeah that was my thought too about the economy, but on the other hand the ones who are buying ebay gold are going to do so even if it is illegal. Hence maybe some method for Anet to get involved and try to control it that way *shrugs* I was going on the premise that making it available from Anet won't necessarily invite all sorts of new people to pay in real cash.

I'm not saying golds drop more often then they do now... I saying they should only drop % chance (same as now) in full parties only.. And I revised my statement to include greens and Ecto, ect...

as to increasing the value of other things in the game. so be it. as long as EVERY transaction goes through a NPC I don't care. because ONLY then is the market truly protected. otherwise there will Always be scammers, and Inflators that unfairly effect the market any number of ways. I have not used the trade button since October of last year, and I'm all the better for it... I will never use it again. If they do not have a NPC For Whatever the auction house will be... well I guess it will just all be salvaged for Scrap...

And I start collecting for myself again. Instead of giving stuff to guildies when they want it... (How without trade? simple I drop it in an instance and say take what you want leave the rest) I don't believe in the In game market at all. its corrupt, and overinflated, by cheaters who buy and sell gold. Period...

Plus by eleminating the trade button and making it so gold can not be Dropped by characters on the ground in town or instances... it eliminates all posibility of Gold resellers in the game forever... as trading gold for nothing or for that matter anything would be impossible because player trades would never happen... Only Valid transactions would happen via NPCs... as it should be.

Thuus no more over inflated 100plat +100 Ecto crap. Nothing in the game is worth that much. Only the Infaltors that trade gold to agencies believe it is. If it all went through NPCs (every transaction) Then the market would reflect TRUE values of items in the game. And when you go to sell something to a NPC it would be more realistic to market value, and not some Fake ideal of what people Wish it to be... But since so few people every sell back to a NPC the price never drops... and the buy back is seldom effected to show true value of items.

*opens trade with Ingram*

If your method of no trade button was put in effect, people would still trade items for gold in another way. say; Ectos. People will collect ectos in exchange for items (If you have played D2X I'm sure you can relate). How would they trade you may ask? Simply by dropping them on the ground. Now if everything were personalized that would be going over the deep end as I wouldn't know how many people would still play the game if that were to go into effect.

--edit--
Also, if golds do not drop more than they do now, that would mean that full parties would be getting a lot less items per hour than they are now.

--edit--
Not to be mean or rude or anything but on a side note, inflation is a natural occuring thing and happens in real life, and just about any type of game where items are present.

Exactlly!!! Thus farming... is GONE!!

Gold buying GONE

Inflators GONE

Population in game for people that ACTUALLY play the game... Rises!!!

And I know what you mean... People would just drop gems and resell em. I know this is the reason what I am talking about will never happen. I'm just saying I am getting so sick and tired of the Worthless Exploiters in the game ruining it for people that actually PLAY the dam game... All because of these piece of crap companies paying people to farm gold for them for resell... And then People actually Buying the crap too boot. FURTHER effecting the game for everyone else. I'm temped to say everyone start sending them anthrax or some crap... to kill off the waste of flesh people doing it.

naaa i like everything the way it is

I don't really see the connection care to elaborate? I don't see where farming would be gone as people will still farm for items (as i was saying early ex. ectos) that they would use as equivalents to x-amount of gold (as runes and Stone of Jordan's were used in D2X).

Gold buying on the other hand, would be gone yes. However whatever item that seems to pop up as the next item that will represent gold will still be sold on ebay. Basicly there is a continuing loop that in my point of view can't be stopped.

ditto.

However I have come up with a suggestion (It may or may not have been stated already). Arena Net could make a major crackdown on gold resellers (aka bot users) and sue. If this makes headlines on some major gaming sites, chances are that a lot of botters will come to a slowdown. Arena Net would then sue bot users randomly (as it shouldn't only be those that are using say 6 bots at a time) and periodically to keep bot users on the look out.

yea I know. its just frustrating to real players is all... I feel ... IDK. Like I have been raped or something... These waste of flesh people took a game I loved and mutated it into something I from time to time despise... I do what I can to avoid them, buy turning off local and trade, and removing the trade button to remove any temptation... but still ... Its annoying to see this continuing, and for people blatantly disregarding the rules of conduct and getting away with it.

I know what you mean. Although it's a sad fate, all mmo's and rpgs end up like this over time. There really isn't a lot the developers can do about it without ruining the game for the rest of the community.

dunno if this post is gonna make any sense at all, but ima put it anyway :P

if anet nerfed farming then everything gets a lot rarer, hence prices soar (i think thats how it works), so if there is no more farming then there is no more trading, if there is no more trading then a huge chunk of the game is destroyed. why shouldn't people farm? the idea of the game might be to make parties, but then again if they didnt want people to solo farm why did they make it so that people could only meet in towns?

the point is that they left the choice to the player, go with a party or dont, its up to you. imo the game is fine as it is, if people bot then its their issue, no one is forcing you to buy their stuff, and if we stop farming and prices soar then more and more people will be buying gold off ebay to get the items they want.

I had a 55 monk for awhile..powerful little thing and makes for lonely farming etc. I ended up selling all of my runes, and offhand, etc. It was neat to see it work, but in the end, wasn't interesting enough to keep my attention.

Really, the purpose of the monk in the game is to heal, protect, smite, etc in a party situation. Spending so much time by yourself, using the same spells over and over and over and over and over and over, merely to benefit yourself, and your accounts worth, isn't really good pve, and does nothing to increase your ability as a healer or bonder for a party of people.

Maybe this is why people say monks suck so much in missions, they've spent too much offtime, working as a 55, getting that build down pat. =P Can't ever seem to find a monk in a mission, but you can fine 50 in Droknars, trying to sell you some overpriced junk. Clearly, the class and the spells are being misused.

Basically, I'd like to see 55 solo'ing eradicated, in all classes and for good.

You have no idea if this is true or not. Becuase they are Asian they must be working in sweatshops?

Maybe you should take a look at Lion's Arch AD1 and see the legions of Warrior Monks in Gladiator's Armor standing around trying to sell their hordes of trash gold items.

Do you think those American W/mos are working in sweat shops?

Not a hint of sarcasm, yes I go OTT, but that's just me. I know a 'fair bit' (as much as someone who's never used them can, perhaps) about bots, i've spoken to/played with some and done a good amount of looking up what are bots. I'd like to say again i;ve never touched a bot, i like not getting keylogged, etc :P "You cannot deny that many bots farmers are bots" well natrually :P some are also definately people, perhaps one person overseeing lots of bots. But they've done nothing wrong, it's us wealthy westeners with all our money and vanity that drives the slave drivers to farm online games to satisfy some players love of convenience.

uhm, you might wanna check this movie http://www.flabber.nl/archief/015498.php
I dont know how to directly link to it sorry for that.

/signed

Well you are right in the sense that the demand has to change for any really permanent solution to the problem can ever come about. As long as there are people wanting to spend vast amounts of cash for ingame items then theres a pretty good chance there will always be someone supplying to take them up on the offer. Turning up a good profit is something that anyone would want if they could get away with it.

But, that would involve changing the attitude of a hell load of players. And thats just unfeisible.

Counterpoint to what you say though, I think there is nothing wrong with the 55 build as it is - it is after all just a clever combination of skills that you can use to give yourself a big advantage in a fight. Thats the end point of any good build regardless of whether it is for pve or pvp.

In my mind, the 55 monk is not the sum of all that is wrong in the pve game. Rather, it is the attitude of many players (motivated by greed and want) that they would exploit builds like this for the sole purpose of getting very rich, very fast.

I always thought that the pvp tournament and guild battle was the natural extension to the pve campaign. Once you had built up your character to be pvp worthy, that in essense was the endgame. From what I can from the pve game, quite alot of players refuse to pvp at all and farming becomes the endgame. For those unwilling to grind but very much willing to get rich quick, then botting was always going to be corrolory.

Good points made in this thread but I doubt the issue would get fix by nerfing protective spirit amongst other things. I think people just need something else to do - something that feels more accessible to the average pve player than the current pvp game (which is quite intricate and probably scary for alot of newcomers). Something else to play. Not feel as if they have done it all and theres nothing left to do except horde ecto for fissure armour or for the next expansion...I dont know...

You know what? These are some of the best ideas I have ever heard for fixing this problem.

No nerfing of skills, so no affects to the pvp game.

No real nerfing of farming either as you can still do it in a group. 8 55 monks? Who cares (or if you do, just drop the % further for them :P).

A return to the days of people farming in team's, enjoying the game socially again. Old school Sorrow's Style.

No one gets obscenely rich because they have all the time in the world. (Wasn't this Anet's stance on GW in general? Skill over grind?).

BTW excellent post Cottage Pie. Some very good point's.

Its this exploitation of the build that forces the market to be such and the march of monks goes to prove it. The Honest Farmers Who run This Build Are Hurt Bye this.
Right Now a 55 Must farm 8-10hr to earn the 100-150k I am able in Droknar.
Imagine the game without the ebay craze. The way the game was when it was released but with all patches in place. The 55 would now farm only 1 day a month instead of 2-3 days a week Time permitting. Wheres time to play the game? If we could just stop the exploitation of this build by the USER/ABUSER We would have a market comparable to the PVP faction scale.

Yes collector items are ok but their are a few twists to gold and green item in conjuction with that give an added edge.

I Rarely Post against the 55 build. This is more a post for anti-abuse of this build by the ebay community. Punishing everyone is not the answer. Finding a solution that will hinder the ebay community but allow the experienced HONEST farmer To carry on is the answer.

Every society has its place for each profession, ie. traders, mercenaries,armed guard(pvp),protectors,medics,and FARMERS.

where would the max stat be without farmers?

Yes I see how they live and are trying to make a living. However i have seen videos of multiple computers haveing bot programs running and 1 person watching 5-8 computers maintaining them like in manufacturing. Thes bots can even be obtained thru ebay.lol
its the exploitation of this that needs to stop only 2 ways to do this.

1: place traders to cap prices and increase the acessibility of items to all after changeing the environment to work only in strategically balanced groups not necessarily full groups.

2:Seriously hinder ebayers with transaction tracability and if programs are being used make it so the ai can not think past a critical part in the beginning of the farming route.

HOw about we make it ez 4 arena and 4 other players that jsut like to play the game?? How about we move Prot Spirit Effect from being able to self target and to only target allies?? That will stop the 55 if not totaly remove em!

Two points.

How many 18 and 19 year old Americans would love to play games all day and all night? Not have to worry about food or a place to live, just video games with other people like them. I can think of a worse way to make ends meet.

As for Ebay. What is the big deal about gold anyways? Is there anything in GW that is actually worth more than 50k?

Depends what you define as 'worth.' There is no item in the game regulated by anet via a trader that is worth more than the price of a Superior Absorption Rune (which I think is around 55 to 70kish).

Items with rare skins have a worth which is determined by individual players and in the case of crystalline swords and dwarven axes (especially when they have pvp weapon stats) seem to command prices over 5 million gold. So much that you need to trade it in ectos since you cannot physically have thatm uch gold on your account.

55 botting has definitely contributed to the devaluation of gold simply because there are quite alot of them farming trolls and creating gold whereas there are not enough gold sinks to take it out of the game (armourers or material traders for instance). As a result the amount of gold in the game is always increasing (at a rate which shouldnt really be possible as botters leave their macros on for typically longer than it takes the average human being to become bored and need food or sleep). Farming to a lesser extent also contributes to this but I guess that was to be expected really.

The amount of gold in circulation shouldnt really be increasing or decreasing rapidly. More people with more disposible income simply have more to offer for a particularly desirable weapon skin. And as soon as someone sells for instance, a dwarven axe at that price, then everyone else with a similar dwarven axe also wants at least that price for theirs. Wasnt there a thread on here about some guy that sold his dwarven axe for 1200 ecto? I mean, I dont even know how you would go about getting that much ecto...

Well if some guy wants to spend real money for some GW gold so he can buy an axe for 1 mil that has the same stats as a green I picked up for 20k, I'm okay with that. Not sure how it affects me at all really.

I recall that, I think it was to another well known Ebayer?...Either that or they brought ectos when they were 250g per lol.

Assuming it's £30 (website prices) per One million gold, and ecto @ 7k...

you need 715 ectos for a 5mil weapon...either way...£150. -.-

That's how.

they should elminate 55. 55s are so annoying whenever u see that mo/w. its so annoying when they join u in a group for a mission there all like yea im a healer but then once its starts they run off and there like whoo black dye drop from a haydra i just soloed because im a 55 monk. all i can say i really hope they nerf out all possiblitys of a 55 monk. even though my warrior likes the trolls its a price ill have to pay.

The fact that while you can unlock via faction a superior vigor, for example, yet not have it avilable (except by paying excessively large amounts of cash for it) via PvE is the crux of the problem. I can unlock a Superior Rune via PvE for both PvE or PvP play, yet I can't do the opposite.

Let's recap:
Ultra rare items can only be gained in PvE either by farming, or an extremely lucky drop during a mission.
This encourages farming for said items, because the more you farm, the better your chances are to gain said item.
The rarity of the item boosts the price of said item, thus causing normal PvE players to pay huge sums of money for it. Some items like "perfect" mods can only be gained via play, not purchased at a trader.
ANet nerfs farming spots to combat sweatshop farming - thus making it even more difficult for "honest" PvE players to gain the item. This drives up the price, encouraging even more sweatshop farming.
Thus, things that ANet is doing to combat farming is actually making things worse, due to higher prices, rarity of highly desired items, and more solo farming behavior as people get frustrated with the whole thing.
ANet doesn't "appear" to be doing much to stop the sweatshop farmers, simply because they can't stop someone from getting another account and resuming farming activity. Sweatshop farmers are smart, they know how to "launder" their cash so the accounts are safe, and the real culprits (the sweatshop owners) are (normally) out of the country and can't be stopped via any EULA lawsuits as EULA is only binding if the country you reside in recognizes it as such. If ANet bans their account, big deal, it's easy to buy another, and doesn't harm the 50 farmer accounts they have, just the one holding all the money.

It's all a catch-22. If the game isn't about "items" but skill, then there shouldn't be "rare" items to begin with. The higher the rarity, the more it costs, which encourages more farming, or the use of ebay to purchase those items. Since there is a huge lack of things to do (besides joining farming parties for greens, or solo farming for money) once you finish the game (which can take a person only a week to do), the game itself encourages farming behavior - or moving on to something else entirely - like WoW.

You're not going to stop player's stupidity in paying huge amounts of money for vanity so that's not the answer. The only other option is to change the supply. If you're not going to change that, then you'll have to live with the way things are.

How bout make every monster have an interupt? or like degen skills? massive degen

Here's a rather old video I made of pre-patch Augury Rock

http://files.filefront.com/PiedPiper.../fileinfo.html

That wasn't even peak times for the army of farmers (or monkbots), nor was it the international district. It used to be much worse as well.

Just make it so there has to be some human intervention in farming.

Like at one point you have to go one way to get though to the trolls and at another go to another. The ninja Avarcia should help defend the trolls from the bots and make it so us human farmers can still get around them with judgement.

Most human players would fail also, and then they'd come here and flame Anet for ruining their farm spots.

The bots aren't fully automated, there are people watching the computers run. Unless you made the entire run needing human intervention (see above response), it wouldn't eliminate the problem.