hey all
i have a warrior with major vigor, so my health is 446 with superior rune
should i use a +30 health or 5 armor haft? this is for pvp by the way
thanks
+ 5 armor or 30 health
Elrond Afil
Numa Pompilius
In theory +5 armor protects you a lot better than +30 health does.
In practice a warrior in PvP doesn't take all that much physical damage, but gets degened constantly, so my personal recommendation would be +30 health.
In practice a warrior in PvP doesn't take all that much physical damage, but gets degened constantly, so my personal recommendation would be +30 health.
Silent Kitty
+30 health doesn't protect you much, but it helps a bit agains everything. +5 armour only protects against physical attacks. I would personally go for +5 elemental protection, but that was not the question 
Elrond Afil
or should i have +5 armor, and +30 and just switch them around?
Vaga
You should use +30 health because as a warrior you are worried more about armour ignoring damage.
curious george
yeah +30 the way to go
Batou of Nine
isnt the +5 armor vs all dmg? like regular armor. Not like the +7 vs physical dmg... it is the +5 AL, which is vs all dmg types...?
since it doesnt give specific dmg type, it is vs all right? like armor? hmm. then if thats the case, the armor and hp mods would both have even strengths and weaknesses... ya?
enjoy.
since it doesnt give specific dmg type, it is vs all right? like armor? hmm. then if thats the case, the armor and hp mods would both have even strengths and weaknesses... ya?
enjoy.
kvndoom
PVE: Armor is god. No more than 1 superior rune (pref. weapon), and a +45 enchanted or stance shield. (I have some places I solo farm with a Sup Strength as well as weapon, but I won't team up with other people if I'm only sporting 380 health)
PVP / GVG: Health is god. STILL no more than 1 Sup. rune, a + health always shield if you can, and a fortitude weapon. Your monk will thank you.
(By Superior I mean -75 health runes, not vigor or absorb)
PVP / GVG: Health is god. STILL no more than 1 Sup. rune, a + health always shield if you can, and a fortitude weapon. Your monk will thank you.
(By Superior I mean -75 health runes, not vigor or absorb)
Savio
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
+30 health doesn't protect you much, but it helps a bit agains everything. +5 armour only protects against physical attacks. I would personally go for +5 elemental protection, but that was not the question
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Defense: +armor vs everything, max value +5
Shelter: +armor vs physical, max value +7
Warding: +armor vs elemental, max value +7
ophidian409
warrior with no shield should take +5 armor for higher protection, warrior with shield should take +30 since he already has 80-100 armor +16 armor from shield so he needs more hp and +5 armor won't do much difference
JR
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Originally Posted by ophidian409
warrior with no shield should take +5 armor for higher protection, warrior with shield should take +30 since he already has 80-100 armor +16 armor from shield so he needs more hp and +5 armor won't do much difference
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If we are talking PvP:
In the current metagame, spike is making a bit of a come back. In this case you want as high HP as you can reasonably get. I would definately advise having a minor to swap for your superior. The extra 75 health can make the difference between that infuse catching you or not. On the same note, take weapons/off hands that give you a decent health bonus all of the time (not just enchanted or stance).
Degen is also still fairly common, and against that armor does nothing.
Rajamic
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Originally Posted by JR-
There is no logic behind that statement at all. If one is better than the other, that is the one you should go with, quite simply.
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Since all +AL ever does is reduce damage by a percentage. Thus, at some certain point, the diminishing returns on armor start to creep in, to where a +5 AL will not be noticed against the size of hits your opponents can possibly dish out. I don't think such values are really attainable in the game, though.
fiery
Sup vigor, than Sup axe/hammer/sword Minor tactic/strentgh, whatever floats your boat seeing may have diffrent rune equips. I rather have 30 HP shield and a Zealous/fortitude weapon.
Jetdoc
It's an age-old debate that the forum has had since the game came out. It all comes down to preference, IMO.
wsmcasey
+5 armor > +30hp, except in the case of health degen.
OrangeArrow
Ideally you should have both for PvP
The difference in 80 vs 85 Armor is about an 6% reduction in damage. Generally this is better than 30 health.
But with a large number of Armor ignoring attacks in PvP if you had to only have one for PvP I would go with fortitude.
The difference in 80 vs 85 Armor is about an 6% reduction in damage. Generally this is better than 30 health.
But with a large number of Armor ignoring attacks in PvP if you had to only have one for PvP I would go with fortitude.
R A C
IMO +hp is better in the long run as it helps against EVERYTHING. Where as the +armor is useless against any type of degen which is quite common in pvp and pve. Armor is also useless against armor ignoring holy, chaos, shadow, life stealing, etc (obviously). And besides, uber weapon of fortitude sounds cooler than uber weapon of defense. In my opinion anyway.
ophidian409
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Originally Posted by Rajamic
There is some valid logic there, though the way they said it, I don't think it was actually what was running through their heads.
Since all +AL ever does is reduce damage by a percentage. Thus, at some certain point, the diminishing returns on armor start to creep in, to where a +5 AL will not be noticed against the size of hits your opponents can possibly dish out. I don't think such values are really attainable in the game, though. |
If a monk is hit by the same warrior, monk takes 19.97 damage -->20 damage, if he has a +5 armor staff head, he will take 18.47 damge --->18
Now you get my point, high armor warrior with +5 armor doesn't make much of a difference, +5 armor is for low armor guy.
The_Janitor
I never use sup runes on my warr. Only vigor and absorb.
But I believe that +30 is a bit better. +5 armor REALLY isn't much.
But I believe that +30 is a bit better. +5 armor REALLY isn't much.
OrangeArrow
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Originally Posted by ophidian409
Sometimes +5 armor doesn't make any advantage for warrior with shield. Suppose a warrior hit you with 18 damage and he has 10 str, with 116 armor the damage is 8.34 which is rounded off to 8. While 121 armor gives 7.71 damage which turns out to be 8 damage.
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Your example would only be true if all warriors attacked you from the front using an non elemental weapon which are optimal conditions to get the most armor which is not always the case.
Now if it was a warrior who attacked you from the rear with an ebon or icy weapon (Which any smart warrior will switch to attack another warrior) it becomes an 80 vs 85 armor question (85vs 90 with plate) or 96 vs 101 if you factor in a shield when attacked from the front. These are the conditions you must consider when doing your math.
PS Strength doesnt do anything for normal attacks just attack skills
ophidian409
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Originally Posted by OrangeArrow
I agree with you that armor becomes less efficent at highers level but your numbers are biased to make armor look ineffective but in the overall outlook armor still means less damage it doesnt look like much but over a long battle it will add up to more than 30 which could make it more efficent than fortitude upgrade. In perfect world you would use defensive upgrade and switch to a fortitude upgrade when you needed it best of both worlds.
Your example would only be true if all warriors attacked you from the front using an non elemental weapon which are optimal conditions to get the most armor which is not always the case. Now if it was a warrior who attacked you from the rear with an ebon or icy weapon (Which any smart warrior will switch to attack another warrior) it becomes an 80 vs 85 armor question (85vs 90 with plate) or 96 vs 101 if you factor in a shield when attacked from the front. These are the conditions you must consider when doing your math. PS Strength doesnt do anything for normal attacks just attack skills |
I was comparing a warrior with shield and without shield, that guy said my words didn't make any logic so I explained with an extreme case of two different classes. You cannot deny most of the time even under elemental damage you are with 96 armor as compard to 85 armor, that means most of the time it makes 11 AL difference and that difference could increase the chance of turning +5 armor useless after rounding off in some cases.
Strenth is armor penetration. Since we are talking about +5 armor, ap implies +5 armor is 10% less effective.
Francis Crawford
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
+30 health doesn't protect you much, but it helps a bit agains everything. +5 armour only protects against physical attacks. I would personally go for +5 elemental protection, but that was not the question
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Your fingers got ahead of your brain there. What you surely meant to say is that there were four choices:
+30 health
+5 armor overall
+7 armor vs. physical
+7 armor vs. elemental
Francis Crawford
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Originally Posted by OrangeArrow
Ideally you should have both for PvP
The difference in 80 vs 85 Armor is about an 6% reduction in damage. Generally this is better than 30 health. But with a large number of Armor ignoring attacks in PvP if you had to only have one for PvP I would go with fortitude. |
+5 gives 1/8 - 1/10 the benefit of +40.
Absorption runes, shields, etc. make the effect even more pronounced; in effect, lowering the damage pre-absorbtion also makes the absorbtion more powerful. Meanwhile, warrior health buffs like Endure Pain (but are those used in PvP) could make the health increase less important.
But then there are degeneration and also some armor-ignoring damage.
It all depends on the exact threat environment.
OrangeArrow
Quote:
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Whoever said your words made no logic was right took me forever to figure out what you were trying to say.
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Originally Posted by ophidian409
Strenth is armor penetration. Since we are talking about +5 armor, ap implies +5 armor is 10% less effective.
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