GvG - Dwarven or Bull?

Le Grinder

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/Me

21 Mar 2006 at 07:41 - 1

I've been trying to work out the best combo for a GvG hammer warrior... I've narrowed it down to these two for now:

BULL::
1. Bull's Charge
2. Sprint
3. Counter Blow
4. Irresitable Blow
5. Staggering Blow
6. Heavy Blow
7. Belly smash
8. Res sig

DWARVEN
1. Dwarven Battle Stance
2. Beserker Stance
3. Counter Blow
4. Irresitable Blow
5. Staggering Blow
6. Heavy Blow
7. Belly smash
8. Res sig

With bulls I can have a perminant 25% speed boost to counter kiters, run flags, etc, with the added bonus that half the time when i hit them, they will fall over without me using any more skills.

However, with Dwarven, I can cycle beserker stance, use skills, Dwarven, use skills, then back to beserker, meaning both interrupts and a much faster damage spike.

Help me forum! I'm so confused! Are there any other skills i should be using to help the team/do damage? Which one should i pick?

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

21 Mar 2006 at 12:04 - 2

Adren Hammer
Warrior/Monk

Strength: 9 (8+1)
Tactics: 11 (10+1)
Hammer Mastery: 16 (12+4)

- Resurrection Signet ()
- "To The Limit!" (Tactics)
- Frenzy (Warrior other)
- Backbreaker [Elite] (Hammer Mastery)
- Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Mighty Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Hammer Bash (Hammer Mastery)
- Rush (Strength)

This FnlD style hammer build allows you to adren spike people, which is by far the most reliable and fast way to kill.

"To The Limit!" helps speed adrenalin gain, then in fast succesion on target with Frenzy up:

Backbreaker -> Crushing Blow -> Mighty Blow -> Hammer Bash

Dwarven Battle Stance is fairly bad, even after the recent buff to it. As is Berzerker Stance. Neither allow you to have an attack speed buff up whilst you are spiking.

Counter Blow and Staggering Blow are both fairly weak skills. Against a good Warrior, Counter Blow will be useless. They will simply just stop attacking you and move onto someone else. Heavy Blow is again fairly weak, as it relies on a condition. Belly Smash again, is very weak. For it's cost, the effect is minimal.

Bull's Charge is decent on a sword warrior, as they don't really have any elites of note. On a hammer Warrior I would not drop the ability to use one of the attack elites, which are all fairly powerfull.

It seems to me like you are building specifically to counter other warriors, and that really isn't a Warriors role in GvG. You are a highly offensive character that be focusing generally on softer targets that are a priority. Things like mesmers harrasing your monks, monks that are stopping you getting kills... etc.

I hope this post has been of use, and you take the time to try and understand it.

[edit: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=139954
You might also want to take a read of this, fairly interesting thread on current Warrior builds.]

ccpolly

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2006

R/

21 Mar 2006 at 12:23 - 3

If I had to pick one of those it would be Bullscharge, but both builds seem to be flawed.

My Bullscharge build(sword)
1 Rush
2 Bullscharge
3 Sever
4 Gash
5 Final thrust or Distracting blow
6 Frenzy
7 Heal sig
8 Rez

My Hammer build
1 Sprint
2 Frenzy
3 Dev Hammer
4 Crushing blow
5 Hammer Bash
6 Irresistable blow
7 Healsig or Bullstrike
8 Rez

I want DBS to be better;;ie Not end if you use a skill
I havent found a hammer build I like that doesnt use a Hammer Elite plz share.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

22 Mar 2006 at 06:54 - 4

Without a Hammer elite...

I'll try.

I'm useless at Warriors, though. Be warned.

W/X
Strength: 9 +1
Hammer Mastery: 12 +3 +1
Tactics: 9 +1

“To The Limit!”
Battle Rage {E}
Irresistible Blow
Healing Signet
Hammer Bash
Mighty Blow
(Counter Blow)
Resurrection Signet

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

22 Mar 2006 at 07:21 - 5

Dwarven stance is pretty bad all around. I haven't find a single decent build with it. When you are getting kite, no amount of attack speed going to help you. If you can get someone to give you wind borne speed all the time or some slow down hex, sure it might be pretty devastating. Prot monk's cast speed still own you pretty hard.

If your target don't kite, ok... drop him dead.

kilika829

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

22 Mar 2006 at 11:27 - 6

Adren Hammer
Warrior/Monk

Strength: 9 (8+1)
Tactics: 11 (10+1)
Hammer Mastery: 16 (12+4)

- Resurrection Signet ()
- "To The Limit!" (Tactics)
- Frenzy (Warrior other)
- Backbreaker [Elite] (Hammer Mastery)
- Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Mighty Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Hammer Bash (Hammer Mastery)
- Rush (Strength) To the limit is pretty useless considering it's recharge, besides, why waste stats on tactics on one skill? Go full strength/ earth for AS/ Smite for HS.

Backbreaker, imo, use useless for a hammer war sicne they have stonefist. Leave backbreaker for Bunny Thumpers. 21 more damage isn't worth 3 more strikes of adren; devastating hammer provides more frequent spikes.

Consider taking sprint instead of rush. Good casters will always kite warriors, not letting you gain any adren and reducing your dps. Sprint allows you to catch up to casters instantly.

Use Irresistable Blow if you are going full fledged war.

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

22 Mar 2006 at 11:42 - 7

Originally Posted by kilika829

To the limit is pretty useless considering it's recharge, besides, why waste stats on tactics on one skill?

It's only 20 seconds, and with their slow swings hammer warriors need all the help they can get to build adren. "To The Limit!" is a nice skill.

Quote: Originally Posted by kilika829 Go full strength/ earth for AS/ Smite for HS. Strength is pretty trashy (aside from some of the skills), KD/AS warriors are very trashy, and KD/HS warriors are almost as trashy.

Quote: Originally Posted by kilika829 Backbreaker, imo, use useless for a hammer war sicne they have stonefist. A 4 second knockdown is not to be laughed at. Especially when a well built hammer warrior can finish off most targets in those 4 seconds that they are in the dirt. Key for killing boon prots.

Quote: Originally Posted by kilika829

21 more damage isn't worth 3 more strikes of adren; devastating hammer provides more frequent spikes. Thus "To The Limit!".

Originally Posted by kilika829

Consider taking sprint instead of rush. Good casters will always kite warriors, not letting you gain any adren and reducing your dps. Sprint allows you to catch up to casters instantly. On a hammer warrior which is already fairly energy intensive you need all the help you can get, and Rush is decent. You shouldn't be building up on the target you are going to spike, and even if you still have problems just switch to a wand and build adrenaline at range.

Originally Posted by kilika829

Use Irresistable Blow if you are going full fledged war. A warrior without a Deep Wound causing attack is like a fish out of water. Deep Wound is the most powerfull condition in the game, by a long way.

kilika829

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

22 Mar 2006 at 12:01 - 8

It's only 20 seconds, and with their slow swings hammer warriors need all the help they can get to build adren. "To The Limit!" is a nice skill.

Thus why you use an axe to build off spikes.

Quote:

Strength is pretty trashy (aside from some of the skills), KD/AS warriors are very trashy, and KD/HS warriors are almost as trashy.

If Strength was trashy, As was trashy, HD is trashy, tactics isn't?
AS isn't trashy at all. You can do massive damage with it if you do it correctly.
Quote:

A 4 second knockdown is not to be laughed at. Especially when a well built hammer warrior can finish off most targets in those 4 seconds that they are in the dirt. Key for killing boon prots. When using Devastating>Mighty/Irresistable>Hammer Bash>Crushing Blow> AS/HS, the enemy caster does not have a chance to get up, cast, or move. Therefor, if the caster(boon prot for example) does not have guardian, the full spike will kill him in one combo. Though a smart boon prot will never let RoF/Guardian go off when kiting a hammer war anyways. Stonefist adds a second to devastating hammer, while it does not add to backbreaker.

Thus "To The Limit! TTL gains you 1 strike of adren most of the time if you are 4 v 4(the area is similar to channeling, correct?). Unless the opposition has no idea of what they're doing and is trying to take down a hard target first. 5 energy for 1 adren isn't a good trade off.
[QUOTE]

I meant irresistable for mighty.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

22 Mar 2006 at 12:50 - 9

Originally Posted by kilika829

If Strength was trashy, As was trashy, HD is trashy, tactics isn't?
AS isn't trashy at all. You can do massive damage with it if you do it correctly.

AS has horrible aftercast, last time I was told. Horrible for a warrior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilika829 When using Devastating>Mighty/Irresistable>Hammer Bash>Crushing Blow> AS/HS, the enemy caster does not have a chance to get up, cast, or move. Therefor, if the caster(boon prot for example) does not have guardian, the full spike will kill him in one combo. Though a smart boon prot will never let RoF/Guardian go off when kiting a hammer war anyways. Stonefist adds a second to devastating hammer, while it does not add to backbreaker.

Hammer Bash makes you lose all adrenaline...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilika829

TTL gains you 1 strike of adren most of the time if you are 4 v 4(the area is similar to channeling, correct?). Unless the opposition has no idea of what they're doing and is trying to take down a hard target first. 5 energy for 1 adren isn't a good trade off. 4v4...? JR is from FnlD, so I'm guessing he's talking 'bout 8v8.

Plus, Backbreaker kills me if it hits. I know I'm dead every time I see the "Backbreaker - 80-110" on the screen...no joking. (Obviously...)

Originally Posted by JR-

A warrior without a Deep Wound causing attack is like a fish out of water. Deep Wound is the most powerfull condition in the game, by a long way. As a caster, I would say Daze is much more annoying and dangerous for me. But far harder to apply.

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

22 Mar 2006 at 13:18 - 10

Originally Posted by kilika829

Thus why you use an axe to build off spikes.

And lose all of that pressure? No thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilika829

If Strength was trashy, As was trashy, HD is trashy, tactics isn't? No, it's not.

Quote: Originally Posted by kilika829 AS isn't trashy at all. You can do massive damage with it if you do it correctly. You can do just as much damage without it, and save the attribute points.

Quote: Originally Posted by kilika829 When using Devastating>Mighty/Irresistable>Hammer Bash>Crushing Blow> AS/HS, the enemy caster does not have a chance to get up, cast, or move. Therefor, if the caster(boon prot for example) does not have guardian, the full spike will kill him in one combo. A full backbreaker combo will also kill. It also doesn't rely on two knockdowns, and doesn't lose all of your adrenaline upon completion.

Quote: Originally Posted by kilika829

Stonefist adds a second to devastating hammer, while it does not add to backbreaker. It makes Devastating three seconds, yes. Backbreaker is still a second longer, and that makes all of the difference.

Originally Posted by kilika829

TTL gains you 1 strike of adren most of the time if you are 4 v 4(the area is similar to channeling, correct?). Unless the opposition has no idea of what they're doing and is trying to take down a hard target first. 5 energy for 1 adren isn't a good trade off. 8 vs 8. Lets keep this discussion to serious PvP shall we, not arena.

Originally Posted by kilika829

I meant irresistable for mighty. Running two energy attack skills on a warrior along with Frenzy can be energy intensive. You could maybe get away with it if you used Rush. I would definately consider it.

Originally Posted by LightningHell

As a caster, I would say Daze is much more annoying and dangerous for me. But far harder to apply. Annoying, yes. Dangerous? Meh. A deep wound as part of an adrenaline spike is far more dangerous. Dazed will be removed, Deep Wound might not be... because you could well be dead.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

22 Mar 2006 at 13:27 - 11

True...but I don't like being Shutdown...

And yes, Dazed will be removed straight away.

kilika829

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

22 Mar 2006 at 22:12 - 12

@JR

There is much contradiction in your posts.

Quote:

You shouldn't be building up on the target you are going to spike

And lose all of that pressure? No thanks.

So are you building off on teh target or not?

Quote:

A full backbreaker combo will also kill. It also doesn't rely on two knockdowns, and doesn't lose all of your adrenaline upon completion.

Backbreaker -> Crushing Blow -> Mighty Blow -> Hammer Bash Self Explainatory.

If you're running frenzy w/o sprint, a good team WILL notice and you might be ganked if you're stuck in frenzy mode.

@LightningHell

AS has horrible aftercast, last time I was told. Horrible for a warrior. As has 10 second recast, less than time period for a devastating spike.

Hammer Bash makes you lose all adrenaline... Crushing does not require adrenaline.

if you see backbreaker and you die even 1/10 times, it's either you have a one monk backline, a 3 monk backline with down's syndrome, or a retarded active prot.

pigdestroyer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Los Chavos Del [ocho]

W/

22 Mar 2006 at 22:19 - 13

Originally Posted by kilika829

@JR

If you're running frenzy w/o sprint, a good team WILL notice and you might be ganked if you're stuck in frenzy mode.
. I have seen plenty of warriors using frenzy without any other stance to cancel it....

in fact the gwwc war didnt have any stance to cancel his frenzy

kilika829

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

22 Mar 2006 at 22:30 - 14

During GvG, with the split teams and all, sprint is not needed.
In HoH, sprint is needed for altar capping, relic running, and ganking ghostly/priest. You cannot bring rush to run relics.

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

23 Mar 2006 at 02:23 - 15

Originally Posted by kilika829

If you're running frenzy w/o sprint, a good team WILL notice and you might be ganked if you're stuck in frenzy mode. He uses Rush, not Sprint.

Solberg the Exiled

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Xen of Onslaught

N/

23 Mar 2006 at 03:57 - 16

Back to the original poster, as a hammer warrior, it is almost neccessary to take either devestating or backbreaker as your elite. Since without it, you lose the hammer knockdown adrenaline combo which is what makes the hammer warrior so scary. If you are running with either axe or sword, bull's charge might be an option (Especially if you're running sword, but just "Charge" can be very good as well in GvG. With an axe, eviserate is usually the elite to take)

Lando Griffen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

23 Mar 2006 at 04:58 - 17

Bottom line: you always need a speed buff, an attack speed buff, and a rez sig. As for your attacks, I would go with devastating or back breaker, follow up with crushing blow, and personally I like to bring irresistable blow and hammer bash. Irresistable blow=free KD for monks when they use gaurdian, and a ton of extra damage for mesmers when they use distortion (usually enough to kill them because when they use it you know they're in trouble. I'm not really a big fan of dwarven battle stance, hammers just weren't made to interrupt people. The reason I'd choose devastating hammer or backbreaker is because your main threat as a hammer warrior is knock down.

kilika829

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

23 Mar 2006 at 06:53 - 18

He uses Rush, not Sprint. Is rush going to be up 100% of the time? Even though you are running TTL?

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

23 Mar 2006 at 06:57 - 19

Some people evidently don't know what's FnlD and who's JR-.

My guess is he's PvPed more than all of us combined.

Sorry on the Crushing thing. I don't play Warrior, and so am unclear on this.

And if you want to complain about me for the aftercast thing, go on a thread I made in the GvG forum, and argue all you like.

kilika829

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

23 Mar 2006 at 07:12 - 20

Some people evidently don't know what's FnlD and who's JR-.

My guess is he's PvPed more than all of us combined. Rank 84 is impressive, but it doesn't make a member in it always correct in forums. I've been in top 50 guilds myself.

Maybe more than you. I believe most people that post in this part of the forum actually have an idea what they're are doing.

Be sure to do your research before you submit a post, you might mislead someone

Siliconwafer

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Australia

Shameful Spirits

23 Mar 2006 at 10:22 - 21

Originally Posted by kilika829

@JR
Thus why you use an axe to build off spikes.
...
There is much contradiction in your posts.
...
So are you building off on teh target or not?
...
[Aftershock] As has 10 second recast, less than time period for a devastating spike. Some points.
Firstly, do you mean that a hammer warrior should use an axe for adren gain? If so, that's downright silly.

The pressure he means is the fact that a warrior does more damage than any other class with his normal attacks. The whole advantage of a warrior is to apply pressure 100% of the time on the enemy team, and occasionally chain their attack skills to provide a jump in damage.

The "pressure" JR is talking about is forcing opposing characters to kite because you're doing significant amounts of damage with your normal unbuffed attacks, which have to be kited. That, of a sort, is off target pressure. I fail to see though how being "on target" and "off target" has anything to do with it. A warrior obviously has to switch targets to create pressure.

Any warrior spike involves bashing things offtarget, and this creates a large amount of pressure. Occasionally, when the warrior is fully charged, they will switch to another target and spike them. Easy? More pressure. Right there. Think about it in an 8v8 perspective.

And finally, nobody can use AS every ten seconds because of the exhaustion cost. You can't even use the focus swap trick because you're on a hammer. So that's an AS every 30 seconds on average, unless you want to cripple yourself. A warrior without AS can spike faster than that. Not very good looking now, is it?

By aftercast, LightningHell means the period after an order where you can't do anything. AS has a far larger aftercast than most other skills. Admittedly, not too much of a problem if you're using it to finish a spike.

Edit: thanks, I'm a noob. Where did that exhaustion idea come from?

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

23 Mar 2006 at 10:36 - 22

Actually, I have one point on that...

AS doesn't cause Exhaustion...I'm sure on that, since I'm an Ele.

Why doesn't Vindexus come on?!

swordfisher

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

23 Mar 2006 at 11:06 - 23

Originally Posted by kilika829

Is rush going to be up 100% of the time? Even though you are running TTL? This is not a good argument for sprint. Rush can be available more often than sprint- TTL all but guarantees it will be available once every 20 seconds, the same as sprint.

The energy cost on Aftershock, while problematic, is probably not the worst thing about the skill. I think that award goes to the length aftercast on the skill (1.75 seconds? can anyone confirm/deny?), as it pretty much means you can't do anything else til the target gets up (I remember seeing a build where a smite monk aftershocked then used holy strike- the Holy Strike got the KD bonus maybe half the time). Aftershock, being expensive conditional damage, does not make up for its flaws by being AOE.

Also, I thought it was sorta funny that you don't think it's worth putting points in tactics, but advocate using Aftershock...which requires at least 10 in Earth to be useful, and you don't get a rune.

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

23 Mar 2006 at 11:15 - 24

Originally Posted by kilika829

Rank 84 is impressive, but it doesn't make a member in it always correct in forums. I've been in top 50 guilds myself.

Maybe more than you. I believe most people that post in this part of the forum actually have an idea what they're are doing.

Be sure to do your research before you submit a post, you might mislead someone My guild's rank has absolutely nothing to do with my posts here, or whether you are wrong or not. Please drop that misconception right now. What actually makes you wrong, is your lack of understanding. Please don't talk to me about research, I don't think you have any idea how long I spend in Heroes Isle testing random things.

Back on topic.

(And rank 84 is actually pretty terrible for us. lal.)

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

23 Mar 2006 at 11:21 - 25

He's talking to me about research, I think.

And Swordfisher, you are just about correct. EQ/AS always took like 5 seconds to execute.

Cecil The Magician

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

E/N

23 Mar 2006 at 19:09 - 26

A hammer warrior needs to have Backbreaker, 4 seconds of them in the dust can screw them over. Because hammer warriors are slower, if you are running an adrenaline based build should have ways of gaing adrenaline faster. Frenzy will work, and I use "For Great Justice" along with "To The Limit" to allow me to gain tons of adrenaline. Because the best way to gain adrenaline, just like in real life battle, is to START YELLING!

If you are going to go for Bull Charge type thing, Sprint + Bulls Strike might fair you better. But Bulls Strike can be bad, I've tried it and its hard to use, hard to time right sometimes.

With Dwarven Battle Stance, it doesnt last long enough or have a short enough recharge for you to keep hurting someone. It will only get you one interupt at max, because they will run, in which case use Distracting Blow for quick strikes or another knock down attack.