do you think GW is too shallow for an rpg? i dont mean the questing part of the game, because i think that part of GW is one of the best ever. weapons and armor in an rpg is half the fun, and this is where i think GW starts to fall apart a bit, especially being an mmorpg. in most all other mmo's, getting that uber weapon and armor set you want, takes months of saving your money and questing, and in GW, it dont take long at all and is obtainable not too far along. one of the problems for instance, is the max damage on weapons doesnt get too deep, for example, you can pick up a sword that does up to 18 dmg for 150 gold whenever you want, and the max is 22. same story with armor, it doent take that long to get the best and level cap is 20. the upgrade runes are nice and all, but still.
what im trying to say is, i feel like there isnt much to play for anymore and not much to look forward too. its a great game and alot of fun, but a lil on the shallow side, what do you guys think about these parts of GW?
do you think GW is shallow for an rpg?
sparx
Redfang
I am not sure why you feel grinding and saving gold for an uber weapon is "deep".
Loviatar
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Originally Posted by Redfang
I am not sure why you feel grinding and saving gold for an uber weapon is "deep".
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because that is the hallmark of of the breed of game so far.free theit minds and their ......
..will follow
Anarchy 2k
You're not in WoW anymore. Welcome to the real world, where equipment doesn't matter and it "should" be all about the skills of the players, not the hours they put into the game. ("should" meaning if ANet fixed some "problems" that a good number of people have with the game, it'd be fine.)
Corwin_Andros
Actually the game is pretty much fine as is.. It's some people's thoughts that they just can't compete in PvP without putting in the extra hours to unlock every little thing that makes it a grind for those people.
The whole point of this game is that you don't really NEED anyhing elite or uber or whatever to play at a decently competative level. That is something ANYONE can do 5 minutes into the game. Playing competatively at the very top level is something very few people will attain even with every possible doo dad.
The challenge of this game isn't what you can get or even what you have.. its what you can acheive without every little advantage, making the most of the things you do have.
The whole point of this game is that you don't really NEED anyhing elite or uber or whatever to play at a decently competative level. That is something ANYONE can do 5 minutes into the game. Playing competatively at the very top level is something very few people will attain even with every possible doo dad.
The challenge of this game isn't what you can get or even what you have.. its what you can acheive without every little advantage, making the most of the things you do have.
Shadow_Avenger
Hmm, the uber gear etc etc doesn't make it deep, it does add stuff, but GW doesn't seem to be an RPG geared towards that.
It is a RTS game rather than a RPG, but instead of one player controlling the RTS, it is the actual group of people working together that determine the RTS.
The RPG element is building your character to your own spec and thats it, no real roleplay, not beardscratch wizards or drunken dwarfs.
The have attemped to add that to the game, but it doesn't gel with the actual gameplay model they have used in Guild Wars.
Shallow RPG, in the sence of adventure game I would agree, but not because of the items etc.
It is a RTS game rather than a RPG, but instead of one player controlling the RTS, it is the actual group of people working together that determine the RTS.
The RPG element is building your character to your own spec and thats it, no real roleplay, not beardscratch wizards or drunken dwarfs.
The have attemped to add that to the game, but it doesn't gel with the actual gameplay model they have used in Guild Wars.
Shallow RPG, in the sence of adventure game I would agree, but not because of the items etc.
sparx
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Originally Posted by Redfang
I am not sure why you feel grinding and saving gold for an uber weapon is "deep".
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Willow
What I care most about in an RPG is the story- which GW seems to have in spades.
Hey, even PvP seems to have a reasonable backstory (i.e. the Guild Wars)
Hey, even PvP seems to have a reasonable backstory (i.e. the Guild Wars)
Redfang
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Originally Posted by sparx
its not that i feel grinding is deep, its that i feel that having the best equipment easily obtainable early on is shallow. it is a rpg and im not sure what rpg's your used to playing, but i've never played one where looking forward to uber equipment down the road wasnt a big part of it.
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I find this game refreshing. Why don't you try playing the game instead or worrying about your gear? You might find that there is a lot more to RPGs than playing dress up and worrying whether your gear is better than somebody else's.
Aiwahead
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Originally Posted by Willow
What I care most about in an RPG is the story- which GW seems to have in spades.
Hey, even PvP seems to have a reasonable backstory (i.e. the Guild Wars) |
"YOU R TEH FARMOR AND SAVE TEH WORLD FROM EVIL TEH MAGES BROUGHT LONG TIME AGO!"
Right. Nah. Or there's always NWN (A game I played for a LONG time)'s main plot.
"YOU HELP THIS GIRL. GIRL'S LOVE INTREST DIES. GIRL GOES NUTS. YOU HUNT GIRL."
Though to be honest, GW's *is* very predictable. I sat watching the cutscenes the first time predicting exactly what would happen ;D
Now, I should explain further: GW is an action RPG.. a story is almost superflous. If you get one, be happy.
DS was SUPPOSED to be a highly D&D like RPG, where you have real quests and decisions. Didnt happen. Story was pathetic. Too many effin' spiders. Felt like Ye Grand Olde Exterminator.
NWN's main campaign (Not the expansions. They're good.) was SUPPOSED to be a serious D&D RPG campaign with consequences to your actions. It pulled that one off. However, it was also supposed to have a good plot. *BUZZ*
Shelvinarr
I do agree with Aiwahead, and in the sense of a storyline..hell..I think -every- RPG has some form of a storyline, Asheron's Call even had one. Though it was custom suited and tailored depending on if you participated in the events/quests or not...but it was still there. Asheron's Call 2..I didn't get much into it..I felt it was the world's first 14.95 a month Screen Saver. Though I've played several others, I think Guild Wars has a nice little story for it..that's just my two cents.
Tanik
Although i agree with the majority of the posters here, i can see where the Thread starter is coming from, i mean im not a huge PvP fan, never have been never really will be... so i focus on PvE(dont hate me ive got nothing against PvP its just not for me, anyways) What is there really for me to do? ive been through the entire campaign, im currently working on exploring every explorable area, and finding every town i missed, but that will take me another week or so tops, what then? I suppose i could hunt after every elite skill and rune upgrade... along with weapon upgrades... to be honest hunting for crap bores me... but what is there left for us to do? the underworld? or other area's like it? i really dont have much of a reason for goin in there more than a dozen times or so.. it will get dull fast.. my point is i need something in the game that WILL take me weeks or months to accomplish, some kind of goal.. it can even have no effect on my characters strength, like say... building ownership, ever play SWG? I actually enjoy creating my own towns in that game, it didnt make me any better in PvP or even in PvE it was just something fun i spent alot of time doing because it gave me a sense of accomplishment when i was done.. Its true this is a great game, but PvP aside this game is lacking something to give it longevity....
Bottom line is, im worried this game will quickly be overcome by the PvP portion and will arise as the new CS, completely killing the RPG in this game.. and just turning it into another frag fest.
Bottom line is, im worried this game will quickly be overcome by the PvP portion and will arise as the new CS, completely killing the RPG in this game.. and just turning it into another frag fest.
psychoraymond
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Originally Posted by Redfang
Let's see. I have played EQ 1, EQ 2, SWG, FFXI, CoH and WoW.
I find this game refreshing. Why don't you try playing the game instead or worrying about your gear? You might find that there is a lot more to RPGs than playing dress up and worrying whether your gear is better than somebody else's. |
I agree with this guy. The game is quite refreshing compared to SOME games out there. I will be sticking with this one for awhile.
Trenchsoul
If you think equipment makes a game, then go buy the 15k armor. I love just playing the game instead of skulking around an auction house trying to outbid that other guy, or reading a trade channel looking for my perfect DR Vamp Gaze. Then only to find every other player is wearing the same gear...
I do find a certain alure to gathering things, so I have 2-3 weapons in my inventory at any time and I tend not to sell things. My precccioussss....
Getting to 20 doesn't automatically make you "the best" either. I can gaurentee you that the freshly ascended nubcaeks in Dragon's Lair aren't near as skilled as someone who has beaten the game. I wish there were more missions right now, but I *hope* that these expansions they'll be providing will solve that.
I do find a certain alure to gathering things, so I have 2-3 weapons in my inventory at any time and I tend not to sell things. My precccioussss....
Getting to 20 doesn't automatically make you "the best" either. I can gaurentee you that the freshly ascended nubcaeks in Dragon's Lair aren't near as skilled as someone who has beaten the game. I wish there were more missions right now, but I *hope* that these expansions they'll be providing will solve that.
Tanik
Im not saying equipment should make the game, in fact i seriously doubt ill even hunt down all elite skills/runes. But what i am saying is... there needs to be something more, something to hook people, if they plan on PvP to keep this game alive, then what they will get is the FPS crowd and a few RPG converts. You say go "play the game" and dont worry about items.
Well i dont really, and i have been playing the game quite alot and ive enjoyed it the entire time, but what do i do from here? The only option i can see is putting it up on the shelf untill a expansion is released and then start this over again and get bored with that in 3 weeks as well, online games are supposed to have longevity, no matter which one you look at, they are all based around hooking the players and keeping them, right? To me this is like a single player game which you can enjoy with your friends, its like Baldur's Gate 2 on GameSpy, i hit the end, and there is no reason to play anymore. ive done most of what i can in the game, the small amount i havent done dosent warrent a replay. Now if this was a PvP oriented game, it should have been advirtised as such and the line "you can be competetive within 5 minutes" made me think this game would have strong PvP but i had no idea the RP portion would be this short. Is the RP portion just training for PvP? It kind of looks that way from my view.. there is not much left for me to do except for PvP which i get totally frustrated with, no matter if i win or lose, the kids on there who are either sore losers or sore winners. Anyways, enough of my rant.. the only question i want answered is.. what do i do now?
PS. i have the 15k armor already.. its not that great lol, dosent even look cool...
Well i dont really, and i have been playing the game quite alot and ive enjoyed it the entire time, but what do i do from here? The only option i can see is putting it up on the shelf untill a expansion is released and then start this over again and get bored with that in 3 weeks as well, online games are supposed to have longevity, no matter which one you look at, they are all based around hooking the players and keeping them, right? To me this is like a single player game which you can enjoy with your friends, its like Baldur's Gate 2 on GameSpy, i hit the end, and there is no reason to play anymore. ive done most of what i can in the game, the small amount i havent done dosent warrent a replay. Now if this was a PvP oriented game, it should have been advirtised as such and the line "you can be competetive within 5 minutes" made me think this game would have strong PvP but i had no idea the RP portion would be this short. Is the RP portion just training for PvP? It kind of looks that way from my view.. there is not much left for me to do except for PvP which i get totally frustrated with, no matter if i win or lose, the kids on there who are either sore losers or sore winners. Anyways, enough of my rant.. the only question i want answered is.. what do i do now?
PS. i have the 15k armor already.. its not that great lol, dosent even look cool...
Midnight Scorpion
It all comes down to the way that you think the game should be (more like another game that you have played) and how the developers want the game to be. They could be two totally different things, two different visions. On one level you think the game is shallow because it lacks in a manner that appeals to you, and on another level the game is complete and full in the way it was originally designed (not saying it is).
Trenchsoul
It sounds like you should just go pvp now, or find a new game. I'm not sure what you want to hear. Not every game I buy I'm totally satisfied with, I have several which I played for two weeks tops and dropped it. So maybe you should just move on? I often skip between several games at once so each time I startup a different game it feels fresh and interesting.
Tanik
Well, to be honest i think i may just drop it. But its funny at its core this game IS a multiplayer RPG, not massively multiplayer.. but its still a RPG none the less, ive never seen a Online RPG disappoint me this much. I love this game, the game play is brilliant, graphics are stunning, the combat system is top notch, you wont find a more balaced game out there... but, it just hasnt hooked me for one reason or another, ill stick around another week or 2, but if my opinion dosent change.. I think ill just hang it up. Organised PvP might be fun, honestly all ive had were matches with little brats, who seem to think that "PWNZORING" me makes them more of a man or something? what ever happened to the polite "good game" like the days of star craft? i even get koreans who try to speak english "you go screw moms dog pussy" whats up with that? Anyone lookin for a good team member who knows his way around the game? lol id be more than willing to help some people PvE for some fun organized PvP.
dansamy
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| Is the RP portion just training for PvP? It kind of looks that way from my view.. |
walder
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Originally Posted by Anarchy 2k
You're not in WoW anymore. Welcome to the real world, where equipment doesn't matter and it "should" be all about the skills of the players, not the hours they put into the game. ("should" meaning if ANet fixed some "problems" that a good number of people have with the game, it'd be fine.)
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sybban
The story is ok, but it seems like pve is short training for pvp. Not really sure why they put pve in this game, except so that some people can get to 20 then start a new character to hassle players on their first character to remind them of how much they are "noobs". That's just my opinion of course
Tanik
Something just hit me, if this game wasnt made for PvE, and that really is just training for PvP... why is there sooo much PvE and only a few arena's scattered around for PvP? compared to PvP content the PvE segment of this game is HUGE, i dont think they did that on mistake... i think they wanted to attract people to the PvE side, with PvP being an added bonus, not the other way around, the game content is devided like 80% PvE to 20% PvP if there is even that much PvP content.. IF this game was designed for PvP like most people would have you believe, then why was so much time and effort put into the PvE side of things? i mean look at the skill capturing system, sure its annoying, but its an original PvE Concept.. There is alot more PvE in this game than PvP.. just too bad it all ends so abruptly.
relientK_fan
Okay, been playing this game for 50+ hours. Most games i buy never last that long. Not done with PvE, because some people are missin the point of this game: FUN. F U N FUN. I take my time, quest a little, chat a little, advance a little. It has me hooked by this. No grind, I love that. I come from RuneScape, so I sure as heck know grind. Once I ascend, I plan to get into GvG and PvP with my guild. We want to be the best we can, so we can be the best on the ladder, and when Chapter 2 comes out, we will do the same.
sybban
That's a good point, but after you run out of characters to level up to the end. What is there left to do? 2 choices it seems like: Delete one and start over;or do pvp. I prefer pve, but I'm on my 3rd character just to see how fast I can make it to the end. I liked watching the story the first tonight but now I just sit there and curse at the screen while I wait for the cut scene to end (ok actually I just grab a coke and watch tv for a little bit)
Juhanah
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I think they wanted a bigger RP portion to keep more people than only the one who only wants to PvP. But they started too late. So the RP is still pretty short, and the game is still mostly based on PvP.
But then again, They changed that you need to RP in orther to PvP(to get new skills and such).
And in the end, They didn't advertize it as a PvP oriented game when it came out. The only part that talk about PvP on the box is
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| Ascend as a team to the highest levels of competition, a truly global tournament to control the Hall of Heroes. World fame and fortune await the victors. |
So now the game is an RPG oriented over PvP. But most people who bought it without playing the betas or without knowing much about the game first had no clue that GuildWars is a PvP oriented game. Because it wasn't advertized as one.
I don't play PvP.. but i still think GuildWars rocks.
sybban
I think the constant message of who the gods favor reminds you that the game is pvp oriented heh
Juhanah
heh yeah.. but you don't see that message when you are at the store looking at the box
I think most people who get disapointed about the short RP in GuildWars might be the one who bought it by seeing it at the store first.
People who know about the game since a longer time already know it is oriented over PvP.
I think NCSoft and Arenanet should have advertize PvP a bit more on the box. They talk about it a bit in the book but not enough to know it is mainly a PvP game. So until you log-in and finish the story line you have little clue about the point of the game :P
I think most people who get disapointed about the short RP in GuildWars might be the one who bought it by seeing it at the store first.
People who know about the game since a longer time already know it is oriented over PvP.
I think NCSoft and Arenanet should have advertize PvP a bit more on the box. They talk about it a bit in the book but not enough to know it is mainly a PvP game. So until you log-in and finish the story line you have little clue about the point of the game :P
Studio Ghibli
It's not like they're totally over-looking PvP in terms of PvE. If anything, it's following the concept of PvP as being endgame (which it is and always has been), but still providing PvE content for those who want it--such as the expansion area they've been advertising.
eventhorizen
This is my view of Guild Wars so far, personally Im loving it.
Its a competitive team based PvP game, highly in depth, balanced, and well thought out in terms of skills and classes, fast paced and requires skill intelligence and a bit of creativity and determination.
Thats the PvP side where the game ultimatly takes you at the end, although you can PvP at any time you wish.
Unlike other PvP games a.net dont end it there. There is no going back to the lobby, instead when your not PvPing you can experiance and involve yourself in a stunning world, an ok storyline, and in the development of the characters of other players. Or (if your not an uber farm lord and have everything already) you can spend some time exploring this land in search of items/skills etc. with which you can develop your own character and hopefully improve yourself in the arena.
No, its not Morrowind, no its not Counterstrike.
Its a competitive team based PvP game, highly in depth, balanced, and well thought out in terms of skills and classes, fast paced and requires skill intelligence and a bit of creativity and determination.
Thats the PvP side where the game ultimatly takes you at the end, although you can PvP at any time you wish.
Unlike other PvP games a.net dont end it there. There is no going back to the lobby, instead when your not PvPing you can experiance and involve yourself in a stunning world, an ok storyline, and in the development of the characters of other players. Or (if your not an uber farm lord and have everything already) you can spend some time exploring this land in search of items/skills etc. with which you can develop your own character and hopefully improve yourself in the arena.
No, its not Morrowind, no its not Counterstrike.
DrSLUGFly
There are tons of areas you can't get to right now, I think they'll probably keep expanding on those areas anyway, and who knows maybe they'll up the level caps from 20 to 30 or something too, for new areas. I'm enjoying PvE and have been for about 60 to 80 gameplay hours so far. And still I'm less than half way through everything. I just like exploring.
speaking of "no it's not counterstrike. " I wish the game had better collision detection. I can watch the arrows/magic/fire coming at me and I move out of the way, it lands at my feet to my side and I still get hit...? I realize that better collision detection would make it harder for me to hit others but I would still enjoy it more.
speaking of "no it's not counterstrike. " I wish the game had better collision detection. I can watch the arrows/magic/fire coming at me and I move out of the way, it lands at my feet to my side and I still get hit...? I realize that better collision detection would make it harder for me to hit others but I would still enjoy it more.
sparx
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Originally Posted by Redfang
Let's see. I have played EQ 1, EQ 2, SWG, FFXI, CoH and WoW.
I find this game refreshing. Why don't you try playing the game instead or worrying about your gear? You might find that there is a lot more to RPGs than playing dress up and worrying whether your gear is better than somebody else's. |
Deagol
The developers claim Guild Wars is 50% PvP and 50% PvE.
But it has clearly been designed "backwards" compared to MMORPG's. That is, they started creating abalanced PvP "endgame", then created the storyline as a long training mission to get there, and finally the world with quests and explorable areas providing a backstory.
MMORPG's usually first create a world, then some attempts at a story (hard to do in a shared world), and finally adds PvP as an afterthought.
Because of this, the MMORPG's are much more world like, while Guild Wars is more game like, with a stronger storyline and much more interesting combat (both PvM and PvP).
The PvE content seem comparable to a single player game, with a bit less in the main storyline and a lot more in the backstory.
If you have played the storyline through and done the high level areas, I suggest you take a pause from PvE, and then later replay the story with a new character with two new professions. Try to use different tactics this time, go a new route, do new quests. Don't go back to low level areas with your high level character, that is boring.
PvP you can play whenever you feel like. Use your old character in the high level arenas, and your new character in the low level arenas. Don't buy the PvP-loser crap about needing all skills and all items to be competitive, make the best use of what you have.
But it has clearly been designed "backwards" compared to MMORPG's. That is, they started creating abalanced PvP "endgame", then created the storyline as a long training mission to get there, and finally the world with quests and explorable areas providing a backstory.
MMORPG's usually first create a world, then some attempts at a story (hard to do in a shared world), and finally adds PvP as an afterthought.
Because of this, the MMORPG's are much more world like, while Guild Wars is more game like, with a stronger storyline and much more interesting combat (both PvM and PvP).
The PvE content seem comparable to a single player game, with a bit less in the main storyline and a lot more in the backstory.
If you have played the storyline through and done the high level areas, I suggest you take a pause from PvE, and then later replay the story with a new character with two new professions. Try to use different tactics this time, go a new route, do new quests. Don't go back to low level areas with your high level character, that is boring.
PvP you can play whenever you feel like. Use your old character in the high level arenas, and your new character in the low level arenas. Don't buy the PvP-loser crap about needing all skills and all items to be competitive, make the best use of what you have.
SOT
I have said several times in other threads (each time my comment was deleted and I was put in the penalty box ONCE for it):
I am just playing the game. I enjoy it. I really do not wish to engage in pseudo academic debate about why this is that way or why this is not. They game maker released a game that I enjoy. Nothing else in this or the clone threads about the same tired argument matter.
At all...
I am just playing the game. I enjoy it. I really do not wish to engage in pseudo academic debate about why this is that way or why this is not. They game maker released a game that I enjoy. Nothing else in this or the clone threads about the same tired argument matter.
At all...
taion
Collecting a complete set of the appropriate runes and optimal item upgrades is quite an undertaking. The depth of the PvE in terms of length is comparable to an average RPG, though obviously compromises were made because of the multiplayer nature. I think I spent longer on my first run through the PvE content than I did in either KoTOR, KoTOR 2, NWN, or BG 1, though the replay value is somewhat less since there is no "evil" option. The depth here is comparable to that of a typical single-player RPG, and the setup of the PvE makes comparisons with typically MMORPGs rather difficult.
sybban
Ya i've been reading about it since I saw it's promotional box at sam goody, I read it was going to be half and half also, those who wnated to do pvp and those who wanted to do pve. And like we've already stated the pve is fun the first time you go through it. I played all those other games listed and yes this one is refreshing, but it's almost like playing diablo, where you go through the game with one guy, start over, do again, start over, do it again, etc.
Midnight Scorpion
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Originally Posted by Tanik
Something just hit me, if this game wasnt made for PvE, and that really is just training for PvP... why is there sooo much PvE and only a few arena's scattered around for PvP? compared to PvP content the PvE segment of this game is HUGE, i dont think they did that on mistake... i think they wanted to attract people to the PvE side, with PvP being an added bonus, not the other way around, the game content is devided like 80% PvE to 20% PvP if there is even that much PvP content.. IF this game was designed for PvP like most people would have you believe, then why was so much time and effort put into the PvE side of things? i mean look at the skill capturing system, sure its annoying, but its an original PvE Concept.. There is alot more PvE in this game than PvP.. just too bad it all ends so abruptly.
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Tanik
Actually the back story behind the name Guild Wars is about the Guilds of Tyria fighting to protect it the first time the charr uprose, and this time, its happening again. Guilds fighting each other is not the "Guild Wars" everyone thinks it is.
Stur
$50 for half-life 2, beat the game in 3 days, beat it twice more in another week and shelved it. Worth every dime.
$50 for Guild War, 2 weeks played and have make it to 16 with 3 chars (I'm leveling 3 builds at once), still addicted to the game like it was CRACK, and I haven’t even tried PvP yet which will probably entertain me for another month or so. The value of this game is 10 out of 10 as far as money spent/amount of enjoyment.
$50 for Guild War, 2 weeks played and have make it to 16 with 3 chars (I'm leveling 3 builds at once), still addicted to the game like it was CRACK, and I haven’t even tried PvP yet which will probably entertain me for another month or so. The value of this game is 10 out of 10 as far as money spent/amount of enjoyment.
asdar
I don't think there's anything wrong with PvE that a few good dungeons wouldn't fix.
It'd be sooooo easy to throw in a few underground zones. Caves of undead like the Catacombs except not so easy.
I keep turning corners and thinking, "This would be a perfect place for a tunnel to a kickin dungeon."
Something like the Hole in EQ with tough mobs that go forever.
It'd be sooooo easy to throw in a few underground zones. Caves of undead like the Catacombs except not so easy.
I keep turning corners and thinking, "This would be a perfect place for a tunnel to a kickin dungeon."
Something like the Hole in EQ with tough mobs that go forever.
thaumaturge
This game is highly rpg orientated, the devs spending countless hours on all the hundreds of zones, hundreds of mobs, hundreds of skills and items is no easy task. But rather than concentrating on "I got a 200+ weapon of mass destruction" the end, they concentrate on "I got 1 extra damage from this weapon and these coop missions are good fun". The bonuses in each coop mission are challenging and the concept of some of the coop missions is interesting too.
The progressive nature up to 20 is multiple fold - aquiring skills, assigning attribute points (changing them too), getting slighty better weapons and armor but probably most importantly using skills effectively - which is probably the true rpg nature of the game. Even above level 20 you can get more skills, combining these skills is the game. At this stage I'm not one for pvp, I'd rather quest than fight the same zone over and over - I have fps games for that.
To be honest I'm still trying to work out just what Guild Wars is, but then I go back to having fun killing elementals and I don't care that I can't get a 1341234 sword, or that I'm staying level 20 forever.
The progressive nature up to 20 is multiple fold - aquiring skills, assigning attribute points (changing them too), getting slighty better weapons and armor but probably most importantly using skills effectively - which is probably the true rpg nature of the game. Even above level 20 you can get more skills, combining these skills is the game. At this stage I'm not one for pvp, I'd rather quest than fight the same zone over and over - I have fps games for that.
To be honest I'm still trying to work out just what Guild Wars is, but then I go back to having fun killing elementals and I don't care that I can't get a 1341234 sword, or that I'm staying level 20 forever.