New UW. Barrage Ranger and MoP.

Hi,

I finally changed my build and started to play as a Barrage / Pet Ranger in the New UW. I have to say I am very impressed with this build and how easy it now is to get into PUGs. Finally my Ranger char. is valued!

Yeah I know that I could have gone and done the Trapping thing in UW but I am not interested in trapping (especially the nonsense of putting 16-points in WS just to get accepted into a group) and all that waiting around...boring.

Ok. A couple of things I noticed about PUG skills that are used:

1) some Ranger in the group brings FW (+6 dmg to arrows)
2) some Ranger in the group brings Winnowing (+4 dmg physical)
3) Order Necro for more damage to mobs. Using Order of the Vamp + Order of Pain.

I personally have also included the following skills to my own build to maximize my Barrage damage:

1) Ride the Wind (gives +9 dmg to arrows + speed x2 with my setup)
2) I recently changed my secondary so I am also using Mark of Pain (MoP). This is an extremely effective spell against mobs dealing an extra 10-34 shadow dmg. to the target's adjacent foes (+20 in my case). I pick out a target in the middle of the mob so I can keep hitting the same target repeatedly. Choosing a target from the front of the pack ends up in a quick death because most ppl are targetting the closest foe. This then kind of wastes the effectiveness of the spell.

All in all some pretty decent damage.

My question:

Having just changed my secondary and thus being new to the Necro skills in PVE, I read an older thread that said that MoP had been nerfed and that using it made the Monsters scatter (similar to other AoE spells like Firestorm or Ignite Arrows). I didn't really notice this happening but maybe it does.

I am a little bit apprehensive to tell anyone in the PUG I am taking this skill, because there is almost always some 'Mr. Know-it-All' prick who says "You can't take that skill n00b!"

Can someone who has used this skill in PVE please tell me if this is true. Do you notice mob scattering and in your opinion is it a good skill to take with to UW and use with mobs??? What is the downside to this skill if any.

Last question. Does this skill stack? I am guessing multiple party members casting MoP on seperate targets will stack but if I use MoP on a target, and someone else uses MoP on the same target. Do both we now get extra damage from both MoP spells?

Thanks.

BTW: Finished the New UW both times I went in as Barrage Ranger (got Victo's Blade on First run and an Ecto and Wenschlauss Staff on second run)...and never managed once to do this with my Elem char. in a traditional PUG. It also only take less than 2-hours to do it. Nice.

It's Tombs, not the 'New UW'.

One problem there: Read the Wind is a preparation, and Barrage removes all preparations when you use it. That's why Favorable Winds is used with Barrage builds, since it's a spirit.

And yes, Mark of Pain does make mobs scatter like other AoE damage. I've also used it together with Barrage, though not in Tombs, as well as on my necro. With masses of minions and pets body blocking the baddies in Tombs, however, they may not be able to move much. Either that or the extra damage will kill them fast enough that it won't matter. . . . I think I'll have to try that out some time, as my ranger started out as R/N.

Hexes don't stack on the same target, though, so if you had two people using Mark of Pain, you'd have to make sure they cast on different enemies. The damage from both of those enemies getting hit would, however, stack.

When I play Orders Necro in Tombs I only take Order of Pain and leave my elite open for BiP. I make up the few seconds of not having a second Orders buy casting MoP. It is Very effective in Tombs...Especially in tight corridors where Mobs can't escape. I have screen shots where MoP damage is shows more then 400+ pts damage. Thats a lot of damage for the Orders Necro to be dishing out. I never thought of using necro secondary on my ranger. That would be interesting if every Ranger did that and they all targed different targets.

What is your Attribute Distribution Skull?

Yes RTW is a useless skill down there, I seen so many badly skill bars down there, I stopped doing the runs completly. Now my only chance of getting a bulwark is buying one.

Hi,

You are correct sir. I now have a free slot for something else!

Thanks!

Yes. It is very crowded down there with a lot of bottlenecks and tight passages. It seems to work Ok.

Again thanks for the info.

Normal build is barrage disctracting shot savage shot attack speed skill dust trap i prefer than throw dirt charm/comfort and res <--- rebirth ressurect.

Hi,


Curses = 6 -->+20 shadow damage for MoP. Add 2 for each distribuition point.

I am at work so forgive me for any mistakes. If I remember correctly I have:

Beast Mastery = 4 or 5 (only for Comfort Animal healing.)
Expertise = 11
WS = 11
Markmanship = 12

Yes. It is very crowded down there will all the pets, minions and mobs. In most places they just don't have anywhere to run.

I wouldn't mind some of the rangers going R/N, but its nice to know that a few R/Mos will have Rebirth for when the monk goes down. Res sigs are nice, but with no boss kills til the end, they're one use for the entire tombs run... I've had more then a few PUGs that needed the rebirthing of rangers to help us finish (and yes I've had other PUGs that never died or even got close).

The only frustrating thing about MoP is when it does cause scatter... invariably some of the grasps re aggro on players in the back row instead of on the summons. Be cautios to only use it when there's a good bottleneck as you can end up killing your group.

i'd say order of the vamp is much more helpful than BIP - five rangers hitting (lets say 3 ) targets per salvo are healing 17*3 health each, the extra energy from a bip is far less usefull to a monk than the rangers not needing as much healing in the first place

and if the MM needs a bip, then they're just plain awful at energy management

Can i just stress IT IS NOT UW!!!!
IT IS THE TOMBS OF PRIMEVIL KINGS!!!!
I normaly leave grps who call it UW thinking its noob cos they never got past first stage..... it annoys me *sigh*

Thats extremely low dmg, and 11 wilderness survival isnt that necessary provded the monking is ok

Try:
16 marks
10 exp
10 wildy

i never have energy problems and +7 troll is fine by me

quoted for truth

problems with your build. (and ENGLISH)

1. its "Read the Wind" not "Ride the Wind" and it doesnt stack with barrage
2. MoP can be a good skill, but your necro should take that instead of you being a ranger. youll already be stretched for stats as it is in that grp with having marks, expertise, wilderness, and a little in beast for pet revive
3. as i quoted, Its not new UW. Underworld is the first in a series of maps leading to the Hall of Heroes
4. Its not "Wenchslaus" faith its "Wenslauss" faith
5. If you knew ranger builds at all, you would know that this is not the only build that will get your ranger into groups. interrupt rangers are highly valued if youre good at it.
6. Why wouldnt you have 16 in WS if youre trapping? any ranger that dont should be shot

These do not stack anymore... How sad... It's mainly Order of Pain or just the Vampire. Pain gives more dmg, vampire gives life. Either help healer or kill faster... so hard to choose!

Anyways, nice skill selection all except some other problems that have already been adressed. Although I prefer to be a MM necro so I can keep the monsters off the team by makeing more meat sheilds. So I can't say too much with curses and stuff.

I wouldn't mind an Enfeebling the blood .

As an accomplished BM ranger and now a semi veteran of a few runs (about 25-30) ToPK runs I can tell you that rangers are little more than meat shields for the necros until they can get a big enough minion army going.

That run is about bodies, and SS. Once that gets up rangers are basically not even needed, excpet for interupts and a mesmer could do that. All the spirit checks, getting a "perfect" skill bar are meaningless.

Because of the potency of SS once the mobs get together it is all over.

I went in as a monk once and basically I didn't even have a good bar set up(as we jumped as soon as I joined), but it didn't really matter since I only basically had to heala monk or rez a ranger that got too far out to heal in the first place.

When you can take a bunch of people that have never played a pet before and have them i there with lev 5 and 7 pets all over the place, and probably builds described above (spread out of 5 not 4 attributes) with elemental preps etc and they can STILL run these maps with ease...that tells you the rangers are not all that important.

Again this is coming from a ranger, and one that can solo UW (as a trapper), and most of the high end mountain maps, and all of the desert maps as a BM. I can even BM my way through perdition rock as long as I steer clear of the golems.

But the way people fly through ToPK so easilly should tell you something, and many of them are not very experienced, nor have a clue as to how and set up a skill bar or allocate attribute points. As long as the SS is at 16, and the minions are maxed, that is all that matters. You don't even need a pet, but for most pet= more meat to make minions. The damage they cause is non existant for the most part, especially when most guys only have a cursory amount of points in BM as it is.

Try using rather than mop a fiery shocking or icy bow and Cnjure Frost, Flamre opr lightning, works well and very effective for me in UW

I may be wrong but I think the order of pain and winnowing only work with physical damage. It'd end up being about the same damage and the less enchants you have on you, the less they can shatter. Atleast I think so, don't flame me if I'm wrong.

No flames here, you are 100% correct. Tombs is a mesmer-heavy area, you're just asking for shatter-bait with conjure spells ... and, as you mentioned, winnowing won't work with an elemental stringed bow. I had to go and make a Zealous Ascalon bow (recurve class) since for some odd reason my 2 other bows are both elemental

I dont BiP the MM...I BiP the monk. OoV heals whether you need it or not. Since the monk now has a constant +9 Energy regen, he can more efficiently use his energy whereever it is needed. The OoV is not even missed since OoP is up 80% of the time.

Also note, as stated above, OoV and OoP no longer stack. You only need one.

Ranger teams are mostly Ranger/Monk's for the Rebirth, because ive seen team's of Ranger/Monk's Rarly a Ranger/Necro or anyother Sec profession.

Sevel team's told me with my ranger he's level 20 Ranger/Ele, this has to be done with Ranger/Monk due to Death Problem's.. perhaps they are wrong but Ranger team's are the best ive ever seen for the New Uw

I have seen some successful builds that dropped the order necro and used Ranger/monks that would use Judges on themself. I have no opinion as to how this works exactly, for I have not run it. I may also be missing some things, but you get the idea.

Just for info, I run a R/N also for the new UW and there are several things ive noticed about running MoP:

1. Minions + MoP = The Best Spike known to man.
Ive seen those lovely creations hit a single target that has MoP on it and EVERYTHING around it that is not on your team dies.

2. Barrage + MoP = Very Good.
You have 5 Barragers spamming barrage every 2 secs approximatly. While that dousnt kill as fast as minions, since barrage is an aoe its much easier to get Barrage to trigger MoP.

3. MoP's aggroe
The weird thing about the aggroe mechanics about MoP is that it dousnt trigger the entire group to turn tale and run. Instead it causes just the creature woth MoP on it to run away like a little chicken. The easiest way to counter this is to cast it on the first grasp that charges in, and once the aggroe mechanics trigger it will get stuck against the other grasps allowing for massive aoe dmg.

3. MoP vs. SS
While SS does approximatly 33 aoe dmg per sec, MoP can be triggered over 20 times per sec if you combine it with minions and 2.5 times a sec when combined with barrage. And at 28 dmg per hit MoP can do atleast 70 aoe dmg per sec. Another Boon is that since MoP doesnt affect the hexee you can repeat as many times as nescerary to kill the massive hordes found in the new UW, unlike SS that kills the hexee along with the aoe.

In the end, MoP is the superiour in this context. A good B/P group should always have at least 1 R/N just for this reason alone. In my Experience MoP, effects can shave 15-20 mins off your time just because of how quickly it kills off major swarms.

Yup, with 10 Curse, MoP owns down there, and while u are at it with 10 curse, enfeebling blood > throw dirt.

And finally the word on MoP is out there, I been telling people since I started b/p there in tombs when it was just new.

If anyone dies at all, you're either a terrible player or in a terrible group.

If anybody die's the ranger would have to retreat and use ribirth to being a player from a far distance and in many case's more than one player could die this has happend to a few group's i have being in and lot's of people who do Tomb's know of this.

Death can happen and does happen and at bad time's a monk could die.

I know of this because i have tested this many time's in the tomb's with other profession's and the amout of team's of Ranger/Monk's but anything could happen perhaps the team's might change

Hi,

Ummm...why the Flames? Giving constructive criticism is one thing but being a jerk is another. Normally I wouldn't say anything but I am having a rough day at work.

Come on you don't have to be so damned picky about everything LOL. And by reading your reply...your English skills are also lacking. But on the other hand, you do make a good Clown / Court Jester. Unfortunately for you those Professions are not currently in Guild Wars. Chapter 2's new Professions are already known and I am sorry but they aren't there either. Maybe for Chapter 3 you'll have better luck. Please be patient.

I am writing from work so I don't have the advantage of being able to check every single detail and the correct spelling of "Wenslauss" (although I could check but I am just lazy). I'm just trying to get my question across about using MoP in the 'New UW' or 'New Tombs' or whatever you want to call it. Please don't take things so seriously.

Believe me, it truely is just as annyoying for me to read your 'eliteist' nonsense as it probably is for you to read my 'noobish' thread.

Now on to my reply.

I have now been taking MoP with me on every run...and as I said earlier, it is doing some good damage. Enough for me to make it a permanent fixture in my skill bar for my R/N build for 'Tombs' runs. Concerning about being a little thin in the other attributes, I am willing to give up 1 point in Marksmanship for the increased overall damage that MoP delivers.

Please wakeup from your dreaming about being Legloas and get on the same page of music. I am specifically talking about Barrage Groups and using MoP. BTW. I don't think your highly adept Interrupt Ranger build would be valued at all in a Barrage Group. They'll first see that you didn't bring your pet and you will get labelled with the term 'n00b' once or twice and then you will get the boot.

BTW just for you...if you are not taking an interrupt skill with your Barrage build...YOU should be shot. LOL.

And everyone knows (and has been stated many times in these forums) Rangers in general trying to get into a PUG in other places like THK, Fire Island Missions and FOW have a more difficult time getting into a group than let's say some of the other cookie cutter builds (Warrior / Monk / Elem / Necro). I do FOW with my Elem. quite frequently, and it is not too often that you see a Ranger in a normal FOW PUG and extremely rare to see more than one Ranger on a FOW PUG team.

So yes you can get your Ranger into teams, but it takes some patience.

Maybe you can give me some pointers about how you get yourself easily into PUGs (and we are not talking about Barrage Groups or Trapping Groups with your leet WS 16 LOL).

'LFG Leet Interrupt Ranger with Rank 12 and 10million exp. I am the best eva. I command you to add me to your Group!'

Come on. They will just laugh at you...and rightly so.

Exactly why I don't trap and could care less for it. This is the kind of mindset that really is hard for me to understand. WS 15 just won't cut it for some ppl.

And lastly, for so graciously pointing out my faults with the English language, I will gladly do the same for you: "...any ranger that dont should be shot..."

Ummm...not paying attenion in you English grammar class I see, not to mention the punctuation errors...

Now that was just all in good fun. Please don't be angry Misstress. I know I am not when somebody answers my thread in such a pleasant manner as you.

Background

I have done enough runs in tombs to collect over 200 ectos, so you can figure out how many runs that is. Im not posting this as a know it all post, but to promote thinking out of the box, and hopefully improve the quality of the runs in tombs, and one would hope open it up to more skills, more primary professions and ultimately more fun. So if you have differing opinions thats fine, if you want to see if it can be done better or differently then fine as well. If you want to flame it, I would love for you to say you tried Ranger Nec before you post your opinion.

This post surrounds the general concept of the Ranger Barrage Pet groups.

My comments are based on my experiences, observations, experimentation during lots of really good runs and some horrible ones. The horrible ones raise the issues I have with the general build.

The Original build.
Guild wiki describes a general build that was probably posted around the inception of this build, and one point I mention that is REALLY IMPORTANT and is so overlooked , is the fact that pets not only provide minion food, they act as tanks to prevent rangers in the back line being attacked.

First ever Run
A tank friend led the party , he was completely stanced up , rest of the build was standard BP. He knew where he could pull and hold them, we never ever got hit, his tanking meant we could just unload on them without risk, very successful and fast, so I see no reason a tank could not be included, the problem is they have to be very skilled and know which walls to hold foe against which is unlikely to happen in standard PUGs. (not too dissimilar to tanking sorrows while eles unload )


Experiences in Tombs
I did this run so often I made another ranger to see if drops altered with less experience.

Ranger primary, (started as ranger monk , converted to Necro), standard skills with some fooling around with others during some runs are: barrage, distract, savage shot, troll, charm and comfort. Anything else. When pulling I replace a distract with storm chaser to boost get away on body pulls.
- used that build for lots of runs , got bored, experimented with Ignite, and wilderness, read the wind, poison and other skills and dumped barrage . Some advantages were the skills still being used after pet death or a distract (when already activated) but overall I found it unexciting. There is certainly room for one ranger to be maxed out in preparations to cause alternative damage.
- Converted to necro secondary MOP/Barbs. Experimented with lots of skills and settled on the standard, add added MOP/BARBS and settled on those two skills as the main focus with barrage
-Final Atts and used the most, 16 marks, 11 curses, 0 expertise, 9 beast, rest anywhere. (causes 32 damage to all foe surrounding marked foe)
- Re loss of expertise: It is my experience that the damage from MOP with atts in curses outweighs the increased recharge of barrage. The sheer amount of damage from the fiends, rangers with high expertise, and minions caused by hitting the mark made up for my loss of expertise. Even a single shot on the mark, with 5 foe around it results in 150 damage per shot.

E/R, used standard ranger skills (see above) marks 12, earth atts. glymph concentrate to prevent distract, earthquake, eruption (blinds). Less damage from bow, lots damage from earth skills, fun to play, lots of energy.

N/R used standard ranger skills (see above) marks 12, curses 16. Mass damage with MOP/Barbs, 10points per hit on barbs, worms dropped dead, and 42 damage to those surrounding mark. Tried to count damage one night in a bottleneck, and estimated 1600 damage in 15 secs. Screen constantly fills with damage. I liked using this more than my ranger because the damage was so great. See ranger/nec discussion above re expertise. I have no doubt this character outdid the damage my R/N could do. Harder to get in to groups. (see issues) Experimented with SS, and boosted wilderness using ignite arrows. Barrage from other rangers doesnt affect your preparations. Personally given the chance I would use N/R over Ranger anytime in tombs. Lots of skills to experiment with.

R/Mesm or R/W didnt try, was looking for secondaries with lots of damage to adjacent foes. Couldnt find secondary skills I wanted although R/Mes could provide lots of interrupts, but I was after damage.

MM, switched various secondaries, but use basic build golem, fiends,minions, verattas, but also now loaded with 11 Atts in curses for MOP and Barbs. Absolutly love using those skills on MM, cast MOP and fiends just waste them, same with BARBS on individual targets.

ORDERS, use standard skills but have experimented very similar to N/R, with SS, order pain, MOP, Barbs, and OOV, always take BR, switched to Nec/Mes and use cry of frustration, OOV, OOP, MOP, Barbs, BR . Full armoured and self sufficient using Demonic flesh and Blood Ritual. Fun to play but boring, runs out of energy if constantly spamming OOP, switches between skills to use MOP on big groups to cause mass damage.

Monk - Experimented with M/Mes , settled on M/N, basically stick to spike healing, WOH, Heal other, area, orison, and now ALWAYS use MOP/BARBS. Might only seek energy once in a run, often throws MOP, resulting in more damage, less need to heal. (had two monks built for doing this run, again to see if drop ratio changed)


Issues with Ranger Barrage Pet Groups

• Rangers thinking secondary must be monk.
• Groups refusing to take other primary professions with ranger secondaries.
• Use of pets.
• I lose my skills when I use my pet and he dies.
• MOP and AOE

1. People thinking Ranger Monk is best Ranger build
When this build first came out people were fairly new to it , and ranger monks were considered good , for the purpose of having rebirth. People died while learning the run and there was a heavy reliance on lots of people having rebirth, subsequently an illogical belief that R/MO is the best build.

FOR: Lots of ability to rez group.

AGAINST: Ask any R/MO why they use MO, and the answer is rebirth. I avoid these groups, as it suggest inexperience. There is a heavy reliance on the belief you will die. Personally if there are two R/MOs thats fine, and their job is to make sure they live to rebirth if needed. But done properly it is only the puller that is likely to die on these runs. (see pets below). Logically that means three wasted skill slots. More importantly it means the loss of opportunity to use other damage or interrupt secondary skills. There are so many other skills that can be used rather than prepare for mass dying and end up the majority of the time having skills loaded that are never used.

2. Groups refusing to take other primary professions with ranger secondaries.
You hear statements about needing expertise, and 16 marks. In reality there are numerous rangers that dont use 16 marks. Both my ranger/necs have done this lots and lots of times with zero expertise because of the experience that MOP causes and I have no doubt that damage far outweighs faster skill load times and the accumulative damage from that.

I absolutely believe the person needs to bring barrage, pet, distract, charm, and the remaining slots can belong to some mass damage or mass benefit skill from their primary. The energy of E/Ranger is massive with lots of adjacent foe skills and added benefits of blinding skills. I dont like them as much as necro skills purely because of the success with MOP.

Any primary that has effective damage or interrupt skills, utilising the basic concept of barrage and pet would easily support any Ranger Barrage group. I havent found any warrior skills that provide that hence did not experiment with R/W.

Personally I would be happy with any group that had R/MO (2) R/N, and anything else provided they had Barrage, distract, charm and comfort.

Just think how many times youve heard people hating cry of frustration and being interrupted, a Ranger Mesmer or Mesmer Ranger could really be effective.


3. Use of pets.

These comments are based on whether you want to have a fast run, or just get it done. I always plan to do it fast, because it takes too long as it is. Best time is 40 mins and average is 55mins or so. If you want to just get it done there is no need to rely on the pets so heavily but the run will defintely be slower, and there is more risk of death.

In my experience this is the biggest area that makes or breaks a fast run group. SO MANY rangers believe the pets are just minion food and they leave the pets dead. As stated even early posts on Guild wiki provide more reasons for their existence than simply that. I have found three reasons for the pets being important.

1. They provide additional bodies for MM to utilize.
In a lot of locations there are a large number of foe, and subsequently a large number of bodies. My MM does not rely on pets for minions, and I believe reason number three far outweighs this as the primary reason for their being existence.

2. Each time a pet dies MM gets energy.
Wonderful to receive as MM, and reasonably essential but the foe bodies also provide this. Again the need is outweighed by no 3.


3. They act as a wall between you and the foe
This to me is the most important reason to take them. It is also the reason I insist on getting PUG that believes in keeping two pets up at all times.

Have you ever been in groups when all the pets are down and you get overrun, have to run back, and slowly move forward again. That wont happen if two pets are up and alive and being attacked. While they are attacking pets , they are not chasing you. While they are attacking pets you can be shooting them.

To test this purposely let all pets die, aggro a few foe, and as foe run past pets bodies, bring all the pets up. You will see the foe stop chasing you and start attacking pets. While they are doing that you can be shooting them, its the old Sorrows tank and kill approach.

If you keep bringing pets up:
If rangers time their pet rez there can be two up always, meaning the foe will stop at the pets always and you can continue barraging. Its all about timing it. As a monk I purposely tank one pet , and hold it up , time and time again the foe stop to deal to it, and guess what, while they are doing that they arent attacking you.

Of course there are a lot of dont heal the pets comments out there as well, its ok to heal them but not all of them. If the monk tanks one pet to hold the wall out there, they dont have to heal the rangers, who are constantly

[*]barraging foe around the tanked pet.

[*]allows ranger to hold his skills longer

[*]provides a wall so foe dont attack rangers

The monk needs to be experienced, and know to spread the tanking around, and only to do it when necessary, to ensure the MM still gets supplemental bodies and energy from deaths. To many people dont trust the monk to do this and in a lot of cases rightly so, so there is a general statement always of dont heal the pets.

As MM I have no hassles with any monk that wants to tank a pet, provided they share it around and allow some to die for energy regen via soul reaping. Again I believe pets are more important as a wall than as food for minions.

As MM I hate groups that dont rez pets, you get less energy and although there are lots of bodies those extras do help make up the first wall of minions.

As MM the most successful runs have been continous rezzing of pets, I create a wall of minions and fiends, then there is a wall of pets that get wasted now and again .

Provided those walls are kept there the rangers can stand behind and kill with some impunity , hence my initial statements that the person most at risk is the puller.

My favourite practice is what I call rolling thunder, (shock and awe) , created with mass aggro, wall of fiends and minions, foe marked with pain and individual barbed, pets rising and falling with fiends, rangers just behind me continually rezzing and shooting, and slowly and continously moving forward killing the large group on start second level, by the two worms, and at the doorway on the second level. I have never ever been able to continously move forward just killing and killing when pets have been allowed to remain dead, and you end up running away which I hate doing.

4. I lose my skills when I use my pet and he dies
This was actually improved in updates, a balance needs to be made between them staying up long enough to be meaningful tanks, and dying fast enough to support MM. Far too many rangers go in with 1 -5 attributes in pet and the pet dies almost instantly. These are the same rangers that believe the only purpose they serve is to provide minion food. I have found 8 beast to be the optimum, allowing it to live long enough to tank, and also to rez to a reasonable level.

You only lose skills the first time, and then only after they are alive for more than about 15 seconds. Of course my experience is biased on MOP cos while it is dead I can still shoot marked foe and cause 150 damage total to 5 foe around the mark.


Conclusion in my experience: If you want a fast run, promote taking turns to keep two pets alive at all times (last part of second level requires some changes on that view) and you will absolutely run right over them and never have to run away.


5. MOP and AOE
I have to capture some screenshots, in large aggro areas my screen is absolutely full of damage points, barbs also causes a lot of damage especially on the likes of the worms, when most allies are targeting it.

I have only ever seen the foe run away when MOP is used. As they are running they are still being hit by arrows. The only people that should be concerned about AOE in my opinion are solo farmers.

The absolute positives are:

• They only run a short distance.
• When they do run away they run away from you.
• Most of the time they are too choked up with minions to run.
• They cant run from arrows so running away is pointless because they are still being hit.
• As they run they are suffering 32 damage (curses 11) everytime someone hits the mark.

I have found no negatives.

Comments about MOP
I am still amazed it has not been nerfed, in fact it has been improved with recent updates lowering recharge time. It is so good I have used my R/N tombs build as is, in Nightfall, getting to halfway so far with henchies and heroes. (Olias being MM which increases effectiveness of it)

As stated, from my experiences, I have found it so effective, every single profession in tombs uses it, and I am going to load all my heroes with it , or at least the necros.


Final Conclusion
I have no doubt people will disagree and have strong comments to make. Im only saying what I have found over many runs. Comments from those that try out R/N and MOP are welcome.


Re Pets: Go try leaving them all dead and see what happens, then try rezzing them as foe run past and watch the foe stop chasing you.

Re MOP/Expertise Plse try it before you start flaming it. Then post feedback on how it worked.


This is my experience, and I still love mark of pain, its going to be interesting with pets when they bring in DP, Tombs will have to change.

No matter what proffession I was playing at the time, I consistently found that the biggest impairment to fast runs was rangers leaving pets down.


Finally Im not suggesting there is only one way to do tombs in fact I advocate experimenting, I do believe variations of the Ranger/B/P group is one of the fastest and easiest way to do it and would love to see groups that had a larger variety of skills than the current R/Mo groups.


IGN Ranger Soul, Miss Wargirl (second account) Minion Master (third account).

...do people still go to Tombs?

A few things to multiple people. Judges is a sort of odd way to go but it could be effective. Points in Beast Mastery are not necessary for a good pet that balances between tanking and dieing. A good level 20 pet will be just about right for most of the mobs down there. The enemies don't gang up on just one pet. I have a black Moa and no points in Beast Mastery and he holds up fine. Ele is a perfectly acceptable way to go for a secondary. Firey bow string with conjure flame, if you aren't toting spirits, can be really nasty but you forfeit your ability to stack a vampiric bow on top of OoV.

8 month old thread. Rez Signet ftw?

Res signet only works on party members...

Sunspear rebirth signet : )

RED ALERT! RED ALERT! Forum necromancer dead ahead! Fire phasers!

Spock: No effect sir, and he's ressurecting another thread!

Kirk: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!