Ritualist Spike Owns
LamerFlamer
Ok, so me and my guild were running our usual Obsidian Spike build. We start facing a group of a bunch of ritualists. They owned us, I must say. They used all sorts of AoE like Cruel Was whatever his name was and the one that does damage to foes in the area. What are your thoughts on the Ritualist Spike subject?
Caleb Kane
I think you ran into us.
It was "Lady Jazmynne's Team"?
We're from Section One [One] but we had some members from our smurf, so we didn't register as a guild.
Ritualist spike is good, I guess, but we had a lot of trouble with it.
We're not very mobile. We use a lot of AOE damage at one time, so it works better if we run up and charge a tight group or have them all charge us. It's best if we kill a big number of people all at once by catching them off guard.
It was "Lady Jazmynne's Team"?
We're from Section One [One] but we had some members from our smurf, so we didn't register as a guild.
Ritualist spike is good, I guess, but we had a lot of trouble with it.
We're not very mobile. We use a lot of AOE damage at one time, so it works better if we run up and charge a tight group or have them all charge us. It's best if we kill a big number of people all at once by catching them off guard.
LamerFlamer
Yeah, I think that was it. Did you meet a team called, Eat My Happy Place? We didn't have enough guild mates on. But yeah, you caught us off guard, and took advantage of it. GG. Anti IWAY ftw?
Cygnus_Zero
Maybe if you match a bunch of Ritualists together, but ive been playing Ri since yesterday and the skills that we are allowed to use are very weak. Ive been trying out all kinds of combos and the problem is the damage is medium like most of the Necro damage skills, but they take about 3 times longer to recharge. Most of them seem to be around 10-20 seconds. You spend a lot of time standing around. They are basically like a weaker Necro. Not nearly as versatile with the skills weve been given so far.
unholy guardian
i agree ^ it seems a ritualist has better skills as a healer, like that one premade pvp character, as a damage dealer it seems to lack unless you go crazy with the lighting, but if u wanted lighting power be an elemantalist..
The recharges seem to take too long, since u can only have one of each spirit *unless u use that one to get some more pain ones* i dont see why the recharges arn't a bit faster
The ritualist may get pushed aside for many team things due o that fact, i mean who wants to w8t around for the spells to recharge, and the spells charging arnt that killer anyway
The recharges seem to take too long, since u can only have one of each spirit *unless u use that one to get some more pain ones* i dont see why the recharges arn't a bit faster
The ritualist may get pushed aside for many team things due o that fact, i mean who wants to w8t around for the spells to recharge, and the spells charging arnt that killer anyway
Cygnus_Zero
As of right now, it doesnt look to me that the Ritualist is going to be replacing any of the standard PvP team classes like a Trap/Pull Ranger, Battery Necro, etc. But that could change once we learn more about the skills. But right now, the Ri doesnt seen all that useful to me.
Dodo The Extinct
I`d like to point out that the Ritualists have alot of stuff that reduces the recharge of skills...
But, yea, the ritualist does seem a little underpowered offensively.
But, yea, the ritualist does seem a little underpowered offensively.
Hiryu
I don't think they're really that strong as an "offensive" class either, from what I've seen and played so far (which isn't much at all). It doesn't look like they were really designed for direct offense.
It's apparent that Ritualists are all about zone control though, and it looks like they're a "counter-attack" class though when it comes to damage. Like, blow a spirit up when a foe comes within range and then quickly chain 1-2 quick Channelling spells on the target for 200+ damage. Makes those Frenzy Warriors (PvP) think twice?
It's apparent that Ritualists are all about zone control though, and it looks like they're a "counter-attack" class though when it comes to damage. Like, blow a spirit up when a foe comes within range and then quickly chain 1-2 quick Channelling spells on the target for 200+ damage. Makes those Frenzy Warriors (PvP) think twice?
Hella Good
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiryu
I don't think they're really that strong as an "offensive" class either, from what I've seen and played so far (which isn't much at all). It doesn't look like they were really designed for direct offense.
It's apparent that Ritualists are all about zone control though, and it looks like they're a "counter-attack" class though when it comes to damage. Like, blow a spirit up when a foe comes within range and then quickly chain 1-2 quick Channelling spells on the target for 200+ damage. Makes those Frenzy Warriors (PvP) think twice? I don't know, man, some of those Channeling skills are reeeeeally high damage. What of Gaze from Beyound?
It's apparent that Ritualists are all about zone control though, and it looks like they're a "counter-attack" class though when it comes to damage. Like, blow a spirit up when a foe comes within range and then quickly chain 1-2 quick Channelling spells on the target for 200+ damage. Makes those Frenzy Warriors (PvP) think twice? I don't know, man, some of those Channeling skills are reeeeeally high damage. What of Gaze from Beyound?
Hiryu
Quote:
Problem is, it looks like all the spells that do direct damage have a relatively long recharge time. I'm not trying to say that direct damage isn't viable, but it almost feels like I'm playing a variation of the direct target-and-damage Smiting spells when I'm playing the Ritualist Channeling line. It just feels a lot slower and "unspammable" unlike the faster recharging high damage Elementalist spells or even the Necromancers with their medium damage (but life stealing) Blood Spells. So to keep the damage flowing (more an issue for PvE than for PvP, in my opinion), you have to stack more damage skills on your skill bar than some of the other classes -- which takes precious space out for other utility skills. I guess that's what I'm trying to say there.
Hella Good
I'm rdy to swear that there is a hidden 25% armor pen in Gaze. Not sure, so don't quote me on that but I've taken 130 + damage from it and I think it has like low recharge. Dunno.... still, depending on what spirits you got u can do some massive damage rite there, while healing urself with imba Spirit Transfer. Not to mention u can keep the spirits alive with HA.
Falrow
Channeled strike is better.
Lady Lozza
I found spirit rift and channeled strike (among others) very useful. To those claiming Rits are underpowered offensively I beg to differ simply based on combinations of spirit rift and channeled strike/ancestor's rage/etc.
Spirit rift has a 3 second delay before it strikes so in combination with a 2 second cast time secondary skill the damage a ritualist can do in the ONE spike is greater than that of an ele. Sure elementals use only a single skill and the can follow up easily with a second but a 3 rit spike works well (and in one hit), and since people are new to all of it most people don't know what hit them. My team were accused of being an E-bomb.
As for spirits being useful in pvp... well that is another question altogether. Personally I don't think they are (except for the healing ones) but I'll probably change my mind after the release of factions.
Spirit rift has a 3 second delay before it strikes so in combination with a 2 second cast time secondary skill the damage a ritualist can do in the ONE spike is greater than that of an ele. Sure elementals use only a single skill and the can follow up easily with a second but a 3 rit spike works well (and in one hit), and since people are new to all of it most people don't know what hit them. My team were accused of being an E-bomb.
As for spirits being useful in pvp... well that is another question altogether. Personally I don't think they are (except for the healing ones) but I'll probably change my mind after the release of factions.
Evilsod
The ritualist is so overpowered its ridiculous.
What was the skill in the healer build, 50% chance to block and +4 health regen, basically mixing Guardian and a low level breeze into 1.
Also how exactly can you counter 'Cruel was thingy' ashes. 60-70 AoE knockdown, unreducable (except prot spirit), even if you spread out if they time dropping the ashes perfectly they will kill someone. Can't exactly use Infuse if they die in 1, SB won't stop them.
They do have a fairly large amount of lightning damage too. Not to mention the most overpowered spirits i've ever seen.
Natures Renewal - Monks get annoyed, bonders get pissed off, sorta ends pressure builds
Primal Echoes - Bonders get pissed off, warriors get pissed off, ends signet mesmers
Union (the 1 with 10% max damage) - Every damage dealer in your team is put out of action.
Soothing - Basically a massive Soothing Images it takes that damn long to build adren up. Talk about anti-IWAY.
Wanderlust - What the hell is this skill, basically if you stop to do anything you fall over. What exactly do you do? W/E w/ Bulls Strike/Charge and Wanderlust, you stop and fall over, keep running and fall over.
What was the skill in the healer build, 50% chance to block and +4 health regen, basically mixing Guardian and a low level breeze into 1.
Also how exactly can you counter 'Cruel was thingy' ashes. 60-70 AoE knockdown, unreducable (except prot spirit), even if you spread out if they time dropping the ashes perfectly they will kill someone. Can't exactly use Infuse if they die in 1, SB won't stop them.
They do have a fairly large amount of lightning damage too. Not to mention the most overpowered spirits i've ever seen.
Natures Renewal - Monks get annoyed, bonders get pissed off, sorta ends pressure builds
Primal Echoes - Bonders get pissed off, warriors get pissed off, ends signet mesmers
Union (the 1 with 10% max damage) - Every damage dealer in your team is put out of action.
Soothing - Basically a massive Soothing Images it takes that damn long to build adren up. Talk about anti-IWAY.
Wanderlust - What the hell is this skill, basically if you stop to do anything you fall over. What exactly do you do? W/E w/ Bulls Strike/Charge and Wanderlust, you stop and fall over, keep running and fall over.
Weezer_Blue
Ritualists have a lot of damage potential, but little of it as spammable as, for instance, elementalist spikes. I also think part of the problem is just as you said "getting caught off guard". Cruel Was Daoshen spikes can work, obviously, but you can't pull those on an enemy every 8 seconds (GoR?). Destruction + Rupture Soul is decent, but it suffers from predictability. Spirit Rift, Ancestor's Rage, etc., all have their uses, but they're not going to replace Eles and Warriors yet.
Evilsod
But when combined maybe with Rit/E using water magic like quite a few of these skills could be much more devastating than an ele skills.
Throw a ranger in there with Crippling Shot and spam Spirit Rift and Ancestors Rage at something and you could end up with a fairly nasty spike. Of course vs Ranger Spike you wouldn't have a prayer due to there high ele AL and the fact that an organised group could technically down a player everytime Dual Shot recharged if you had to get close.
Throw a ranger in there with Crippling Shot and spam Spirit Rift and Ancestors Rage at something and you could end up with a fairly nasty spike. Of course vs Ranger Spike you wouldn't have a prayer due to there high ele AL and the fact that an organised group could technically down a player everytime Dual Shot recharged if you had to get close.
LamerFlamer
Rt/E, Iron mist + lightning damage spells. They can't run, and they are getting beaten on by a bunch of ritualists using lightning damage.
Lady Lozza
Well that is actually something that I hadn't thought of. I remember that a couple of water magic hexes allow for greater damage, or is that only with ele air skills? Anyway, Iron Mist + channelling could be lots of fun 
Hella Good
There is a reason why Rts have all kinds of elites that help recharge their skills faster- most Rt skills take forever to recharge. I think Channeling is like a blend of Smiting, Inspiration, and Air Magic- it's most likely it will be used as sparingly as Smiting is, and for reasons that Inspiration is, with only a few people running it as Air Magic is. But I could, of course, be wrong. I guess we're gonna find out pretty soon.
Lady Lozza
Hella, I actually found that you could nearly spike on one single character if you maxed your channelling. As I mentioned earlier, barring nerfs, ritualist should be able to run a 3 man spike in HA. There are, of course, a couple of downsides to this.
I actually think the largest problem will be the preconception of the ritualist as a backup healer.
I actually think the largest problem will be the preconception of the ritualist as a backup healer.
Hella Good
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
I actually think the largest problem will be the preconception of the ritualist as a backup healer.
I find this ridiculous btw. I think that Rts are much stronger at Commune than at Restoration. The whole spirit base thing is I think extremely potent. To be honest, I look at Restoration as a mix of Heal and Prot and it's fine... it's just that being a mix the spells are sometimes neither good heals, nor good prots. Not like the skills suck or anything, some of them are pretty damn good for their cost. Pisses me off knowing people consider Rts some Monk substitute. Much like a lot of people think Assas are sort of back-up warriors. I think both are wonderful advanced lvl classes. Neither is a back-up anything, they capitalize on two completely different concepts to the game- postioning and movement control- that no other class can handle as well as they can.
Lady Lozza
I agree. I've always been a fan of a profession being the profession that it is and not trying to play others - like a monk trying to be a warrior. I'm not saying that a monk should heal, only that it amazes me to come across a monk with only two monk skills in their bar and hacking away with a sword when smiting has some pretty nifty spells.
Ritualists and assassins are going to be so important to the game and players are going to have to learn to capitalise on space and surroundings. Without understanding the field of battle, assassins and ritualists will become less powerful. In many ways these professions are going to be like mesmers. People will simply not play them because they don't understand them, or will be interested in only ONE build (whatever the equivalent of e-surge is).
Ritualists and assassins are going to be so important to the game and players are going to have to learn to capitalise on space and surroundings. Without understanding the field of battle, assassins and ritualists will become less powerful. In many ways these professions are going to be like mesmers. People will simply not play them because they don't understand them, or will be interested in only ONE build (whatever the equivalent of e-surge is).
Valkyries
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
I agree. I've always been a fan of a profession being the profession that it is and not trying to play others - like a monk trying to be a warrior. I'm not saying that a monk should heal, only that it amazes me to come across a monk with only two monk skills in their bar and hacking away with a sword when smiting has some pretty nifty spells.
Ritualists and assassins are going to be so important to the game and players are going to have to learn to capitalise on space and surroundings. Without understanding the field of battle, assassins and ritualists will become less powerful. In many ways these professions are going to be like mesmers. People will simply not play them because they don't understand them, or will be interested in only ONE build (whatever the equivalent of e-surge is). I agree completely.
Ive already seen/heard ppl bashing Ritualists especially saying they are junk because they don't deal enough damage and how all their skills are way underpowered. I really disagree, I played it over the prerelease weekend and love it. It completely controlled the board. I had one battle in TA I remember very well that lasted 25 minutes. Yes that wasn't a typo. TA fight lasting 25 minutes. Their ritualist would put spirits along the bridge over and over to attack and block himself and the Monk while on the other side the Warriors were hacking away at us. It was a complete standstill forever and eventually they won due to perhaps bordem but mainly because of positioning of their players. It was a very well laid out battle. A lot of fun too, at least for the first 15 mins.
My point is that people wont realize their power until they really try it out and do well with it. For some reason people think they can just pick up a class and run with it and be REALLY good... and if they loose its "that class sucks" nevermind you have no idea how to play it. Hense why everyone in RA is a damn Warrior.
BTW I AM a Mesmer player (Always Mesmer in PVP) and I look forward to expanding that to Ritualists in a week or so.
Ritualists and assassins are going to be so important to the game and players are going to have to learn to capitalise on space and surroundings. Without understanding the field of battle, assassins and ritualists will become less powerful. In many ways these professions are going to be like mesmers. People will simply not play them because they don't understand them, or will be interested in only ONE build (whatever the equivalent of e-surge is). I agree completely.
Ive already seen/heard ppl bashing Ritualists especially saying they are junk because they don't deal enough damage and how all their skills are way underpowered. I really disagree, I played it over the prerelease weekend and love it. It completely controlled the board. I had one battle in TA I remember very well that lasted 25 minutes. Yes that wasn't a typo. TA fight lasting 25 minutes. Their ritualist would put spirits along the bridge over and over to attack and block himself and the Monk while on the other side the Warriors were hacking away at us. It was a complete standstill forever and eventually they won due to perhaps bordem but mainly because of positioning of their players. It was a very well laid out battle. A lot of fun too, at least for the first 15 mins.
My point is that people wont realize their power until they really try it out and do well with it. For some reason people think they can just pick up a class and run with it and be REALLY good... and if they loose its "that class sucks" nevermind you have no idea how to play it. Hense why everyone in RA is a damn Warrior.
BTW I AM a Mesmer player (Always Mesmer in PVP) and I look forward to expanding that to Ritualists in a week or so.
BaconSoda
I whole-heartedly aree with both of you on the points that people think that classes they do not understand are underpowered and that people only use a certain build. I also played ritualist, and mesmer, and ranger,and assassin, and loved them all in both PvE and PvP. However I beleive that like the ele and the necro ritualists will be a favorite of PvE and will not be truly recognized in PvP. Whereas the oppositte will probrally happen to the assassin, where he is favored in PvP rather than in PvE. The thought of these two possibilities astonishes me and in fact angers me at many player's singlemindedness. Currectly the Mesmer and the Ranger are supposedly "underpowered" in PvE which i completely disagree with considering that my ranger can deal more indirect damage with Concussion Shot+ Epidemic & barrage on a group of FoW Shadow Monks than an SS has ever done, and yet no groups take me because i am a ranger and thusly not a stereotypical build for FoW. The problem is the stereotyping that too many of the players in GW take part in. Until less people stereotype both these classes will probrably be branded for a certain play type and under-utilized in the other play-type.
LoKi Foxfire
Ritualists will do wonders in GvG and HA. It seems a lot of their rituals are involved in slowing or completely stopping certain spikes/builds. Union/Shelter are two good rituals when mixed with Soul Twisting and some junk (they're still useful of course, I mean as Soul Twisting food) to constantly recharge Union/Shelter. :O
Evilsod
Spirits are incredibly obvious though when casting. If you have a Rit/x on the field sooner or later people will start bringing in interrupt rangers to hastle them. That or have warriors dedicated to chasing them down and hunting spirits.
I still think Rit spirits are the most unbalanced thing since sliced bread.
I still think Rit spirits are the most unbalanced thing since sliced bread.
BaconSoda
that was exactly my point in saying they would be underpowered in PvP. They were so powerful in the preview event, but in a short time people will creat certain builds to counter a Rt's spirits or counter a Rt altogether. Also in PvE people will most likely staple them as healers (which is fine by me considering that's what i wanted to do anyway) or perhaps as spirit makers for the healer's skills like "Mend Body and Soul" and "Spirit Light"