Is there a 90-day return policy?

I know all too well what gaming "Grind" is... repeating the same stuff over and over again. I think it's the PVP 'nay sayers' who don't know what Grind is. Grind is FORCED upon you. FORCED... No one is saying that you HAVE to have the superior runes or the elite skills.... They are crutches provided for those who can't learn the real meaning of strategy.

I have been to the HoH, on personally noted AVERAGE stuff by YOUR standards. Thus making the NEED to "grind" based on most of these whiners who HAVE to have the biggest and baddest "BFG's" the game has to offer, thinking that's all that will get them through.

Personally with my 80 point orbs, if I go in and beat the person who can deliver the 130ish point orbs right back at me, I see it as a bigger accomplishment and a higher testement to my personal skill at 1) playing the game, 2) working with my team to come up with a winning strategy and 3) doing what others can't seem to do WITHOUT the crutches.

You know, you can take a tank out with a missile, and you can also take a tank out with a pistol. You just have to know HOW to do it, and figure it out. With a missile you might be able to fire and forget, but with the Pistol you're going to have to do it right, and take some chances to get the hatch open.

In the end it's the same result. Guess which one would get the medal in the end for doing so? The one who used the easy way out or the one who had to take real calculated risks to get the job done?

In the end, I've had fun in my PVP match. I die? Fine... go back in. I live... and hold onto the hall for some time... good for me... and I'm doing it with the average gear, no crutches.

And when I do unlock those better items and skills, and incorporate them into my build, I'll use them, but I think I'll appreciate them more too.

He gives the false advertisement as one of the reasons for the return. This game was advertised as no grind but the reality is if you want to compete you are going to have to grind almost as much as other mmo's. I could put 200 played hours into almost every other mmo and be at top level with great gear. This game was suppose to be a revolution but in reality its the same thing just with a different package.

To those saying to leave this subject alone its been overdone or this is a fan forum you negative posts about the game are unwanted, I say this. I would say 99% of the people that are posting about the grind and similar negative posts are fans who want the game they played in BWE and the game they were promised. The reality is they really are 2 different games.

The day they bring back skill over time spent is the day when I come back and play. If they decide not to then like everyone here has said I will put it on the shelf and move on to something else. Right now I still feel posts and suggestions will help bring the pve and the pvp closer to what it was during bwe so I keep posting.

Keep hope alive

I think the answer is a NO, it's a computer game, and well... after you open any computer game there is a no return policy for nearly ALL stores...

The issue of the ignore function doesnt bother me that much, i just ignore Everyone, even team players, i've found i get alot less pissed at those idiots when i can't hear their useless rambling... when i hear someone state, wtf monk why didnt you heal me!, and they ran away from the group... i always feel inclined to call them a moron, or the such, which in a way, is against the terms of agreement, which i don't want to go against, since i've been banned for something similiar on everquest (I told a kid i would rape him in a duel) and i got sent to talk with a dev in game, and he asked me what i said, so i told him "I told the kid i'd rape him, cause my character was better and he was stealing my kills", then he said "that was wrong"(using some sort of "Big" word, in which he spelled wrong (and used in wrong context)... at that point i knew he was a kid (hence the fact that everquest rewarded kids that wasted alot of their life on the game), and so well... i told the dev that my character would rape him too... and then, my everquest instantly shut down(more proof it was a kid that just got frustrated ^.^), never to be opened again, with a 364(not exagerating) YEAR ban... just incase i live to be 354, they didnt want me playing again then either...


Trading system does need a revamp, and in my little mind, i'm really hoping that they're working on ideas for it right now and it will be out sometime within about a month ^.^ (wishfull thinking)

Id like to see these advertising quotes of "no grind"



heres what the faq promotes
http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html#release

this is open for interpretation

and certainly isnt saying -- no grind


HOW you use your skills (with teammates), matters more than time hunting for skills

*advertising sounds correct to me*

You had a chance to test it before you bought it. At least you're not stuck with some crap like WoW where you have to pay additional fees every month. Maybe upcoming changes will bring something you like and you could play again... for free.

the game they were promised?

they were told it was beta
they were told things would change
i think they were even told the unlock all would not be in the retail

THE ONLY REASON THEY WERE UNLOCKED WAS TO GIVE PEOPLE AN IDEA OF WHAT THE FINISHED CHARACTER WOULD RESEMBLE AFTER PLAYING THE GAME

We were told repeatedly over the bwe that player skill would be more important then time spent and it's simply not true.

Player A is a skillful player but he spent the time to grind away and get the runes and skills he wants.

Player B is a equally skillful player but after accending or simply using a prebuild with none of the more elusive skills and runes.

Player A is on a team with players like himself and player B is also on a team similar to himself

Which player wins more matches. I would say with the major runes and skills team A wins all of the matches. Even though both teams are evenly skilled team A has a sizeable advantage because of spells/skills and runes/weapons unlocked. I would go so far as to say team A can be less skilled and still win a majority of the matches because they simply had more tools.

god, 4 days and you are level 20.

I have been playing for 21 days, 181 hours and Im level 20 but no where near ending the game yet. I have been exploring and having fun. sounds to me like you took all the fun out of the game and just rushed through to finish the game. How can you enjoy a game if you don't take the time to actually have fun. four days and you are done. boggles my mind.

I don't think player "A" would have the same playing ability skill as "B" would in the first place. I know what you are trying to say but do they really have THAT much of an advantage? I don't think they really do. And Player "A" worked harder to get where he is so he deserves to have a bit of an advantage. I think people are making a bigger deal then it really is. As the old saying goes, you can't please everyone all of the time.

Hawkeyes Ravenloft

That's the theory anyway, but are we actually seeing this happen in game?

It's also worth asking, are those players who "grind" to collect all the best skills and gear winning PvP matches because they have more stuff unlocked than their opponents or because they've spent considerably more time honing their skills through hours of play?

See you clearly don't understand what the purpose of superior runes and good item components are. Let's make a friendly GvG match that doesn't count on the ladder, both teams will have the same skills same strategy and it'll be on the warrior isle map where no team has an advantage. Our guild will have all the runes and upgrades while your team will have none. If you really are more skilled and you have goldy tactics you'll beat us. If not then we'll lose and you'll have proven your point. I'll even come here on these forums and post pictures and such if we lose, I give you my word. I'm serious about this too and I'm sure the guild officers and leader will agree to this (PM me and I'll try and convince our guild to do it). You'll see just how 3 skill points will make a difference and how a +20% enchant duration goes a long way. Up till now people have just used vague examples on how items aren't important. Big thing I see is here to try and bring down PvPers is 'it's your choice to use them or not so technically it's not grind'. And it's also my choice to like losing ? No one likes losing thus you need every item you can get your hands on to get that edge. Runes and items are not crutches, they are a necessity and one day you'll learn that. And seriously how many times have you captured and held the HoH ?

As for pistols to destroy tanks... That was the airplane that flew by that did it in Saving Private Ryan (I though it was clear at first glance) Not Tom Hanks with his pistol. C'mon use relevant examples that actually apply not just hypothetical blabber. Why do you think they used bazooka's in WWII ? I'm sure many soldiers destroyed tanks with pistols

Since I've been on these forums you've never brought up a single argument to defend your claims and much of what you say doesn't include common sense. Using single phrase replies to glorify people who defend your opinion doesn't help your cause. And besides if you dislike these forums so much go to a different one such as TGH or GWonline. This reply is not to be intended as flame bait btw.

I don't know why someone doesn't just test this. get two guilds. one can be pumped up with the best skills and items they have. the other uses skills and items that you would earn by just playing to 20.

they fight. maybe three times to make sure it is a good result.

then they switch which team has the advantage.

they can use whatever strategies and builds they want as long as one team doesn't use anything 'uber'.

if it is all about what items and skills you have then the team with the best items and skills should win every match (three for each team). if not, then it is not all about items and having all the skills.

There are times I think the "grind" argument is just some people's way of excusing their PvP losses. "I didn't lose because the other player was better, I lost because he had an unfair advantage!"

I get zero enjoyment from pve thats why I rushed through. I wanted to pvp, it is the reason I bought the game.

the one i liked best was the player who said he was very good and the missions were too hard

when i asked him about all of the people who were doing them the first or second time with success his responce was

*most of the players are riding the coattails of other people who have done it many times
they may not even realize they are riding their coattails and so have an unrealistic idea of the difficulty*

I have hardly pvped since game was released. The reason why is I don't have the build I wanted and I am not going through multiple boss runs for a single skill or grinding hours on end for that elusive rune.


You don't need to get 2 teams together to try and prove it. If 2 teams have the same skill the team with the better equipment is going to win. The extra health, damage and healing will win out in the end.

If that wasn't its intent then why even post it?

It was personal and inflamatory, what OTHER possible intent could there have been?

Look the game model is pretty much just like Magic The Gathering Online. That game is very much about skill (as is guild wars). There is no doubt that somebody who spent $1000 on cards will have the OPPORTUNITY to create a better deck than somebody who has only spent $100, but that is not always the case. Just like MTGO, perhaps GW should have limited "formats". Standard (no elite skills), Unlimited, new formats can be created with each expansion, etc. Then everyone could play the format they enjoy (and have skills unlocked for).

Wow, are you sure that a roll command was put into the game so that people could run casinos? Or do you think that something like that is useful for deciding who will be the last member of a group? Maybe in the HOH, one sigil drops and a group wants to roll for it instead of the randomness already built in? There are MANY uses for a roll function other than gambling. I don't think it makes a company look bad if they ban people for ABUSE of the functionality of the game. The downfall of a capitalistic society is absolute greed and selfishness.

When companies send out letters to people asking for money with a promise of something, and then don't deliver, they are commonly dealt with via a class-action lawsuit. If it's not OK in RL, what is the excuse here? And is excusing cheating a good thing? Simply because the internet is percieved as consequence free, doesn't mean that it is.

Matt

great analogy

that was mentioned at E3 too
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cf...00,49697 2953

depends where you bought it, yes at certain stores you can despite what they say. Sam goody takes games back and resells them

Once again unable to bring an argument to the other portion of what I said. That's exaclty why I put my comment up there and if you took is a flame bait then go ahead and have fun with it. Until you can produce a half-decent point and not just emphasize or glorify the arguments of someone who shares your opinion maybe you should visit other less serious forums.

To argue what point?

That you feel that I am unable to make a point on or off topic within the threads?

OK I say I do, you say I don't, ok now what?

Have you read EVERY post that I have made, all 100 plus of them?

If you have great! if you haven't then the only point of your post was to flame. Either way this is WAY off topic and this is not the thread for it, but if you feel as strongly about this as you come off, maybe you should start a thread about my inability to post a coherent point.

The only thing I agree with in the OP is the first sentence of the last paragraph.

if you are so unhappy with it why are you still here posting instead of playing a game you enjoy?

under the present circumstances it looks as though your only purpose here now is to bad mouth the game.

Like I said, that's the theory, but is this actually happening in game? Also, how do you account for the inherent advantage "grinders" have simply because they are more practiced having spent literally hours upon hours honing their technique?

Try to understand what I am saying.

2 teams of the same skill

1 team grinding for skills and runes

other team didn't

Now considering they are both at the same skill level who is going to win? It will be the team that has the bonus to health/damage/spells.


As to the reason why I am still posting here, it is because I still have hope that the devs will make the change so everyone can be on equal ground. I fell in love with this game in BWE and couldn't say enough good things about this game and the potential this game has is awesome when it comes to providing a place for both pve and pvp players. A lot of people view me as a bad person for this forum because I disagree with a single aspect of this game. I am not going anywhere until it becomes clear that the change I want will never go in.


Me

And the world is a perfect place....

As I mentioned before, you can not please everyone all of the time. Anyways, the situation that you gave probably will not exist, ever. Guilds and teams will be made up of all different types of people and teams. If a Guild grinds for skills and runes and they are the top PvPr's then good on them, so what. I personally don't feel it's a grind and enjoy the game as it is. Do I think it's perfect? I surely do not. In fact I think they have lots to improve on. Is the game fun and enjoyable? Hell ya.

If someone thinks your bad person just because you disagree with them then they have other issues. This is a discussion forum and people should be free to express what ever opinion they wish. As for changes and sticking around, you should be here for a while since there is always hope.

Hawkeyes Ravenloft

But would you go to a GTA fan site and post that GTA sucks, that you demand such and such change so YOU will like it afterwards (nevermind the satisfied buyers), and that you want your money back?

Would you call the pizza service and ask to return your half-eaten pizza and to get a refund because you didnt like the taste after all?

Pretty silly, isnt it...

[QUOTE=Mav]Out of that time period I'd say I've played maybe 5 days, several hours each day, and "beaten" the game. QUOTE]

You have "beaten" the game? How do you "beat" GW? I don't think you get the gist of the game. Did you do it all by yourself? Did you explore all the areas? Did you play multiplayer PvE? Did you play other character combinations or just the first one you created.

I like a lot of the other posts and wont push any more new ideas suffice it to say I hope you don't get your money back. You played, you enjoyed (I assume), you didn't get it, now you want out. Sorry, mate, it doesn't work that way. If I got my money back for all the games I only played once or for just a few weeks I would never have to buy a new game again. I'd just buy, play, return, repeat.

Well what you could do is sell your account to a friend. He can then change the password and personnal info. Then he could do whatever he wants with it (ie delete your characters and start over). You could also try doing that on E-Bay but you'd have to put up some sort of disclamer/legal blabber like Sigil sellers do.

I understand exactly what you're saying, but your example is purely hypothetical. What I'm asking, does your hypothetical situation correspond with reality? Do "grinders" have an advantage only because of the items they've unlocked, or is it because they are simply better players?