How Many of you will be picking up the expansion.

I hope they do more than add two large areas. I'm hoping for much more depth added to PvP rather than simple battles between teams of 8 for bragging rights and sigils. Alliances between guilds should be added, with alliance chat. Additions to the guild hall like a simple message board, a way to display your characters to others, planning tools, a guild area where you could train people to fight... all sorts of stuff.

I'd buy it though, because the only way this whole PC gaming market is to improve is if we as players support inovative games. You might not like GW, but you have to admit that it's inovative.

Expansions are just going to be more PvE content and more PVP areas, probably one or two an expansion.

If the PvE got extended, I could see game lasting a long while, but quickly finishing the PvE and having to item/skill grind through the game can get tiresome.

I have no problem with the level cap, I think its a lot of people coming from Final Fantasy land and pretend console RPG games where your character can be a 167th level whatever that need to be gratified with having more levels than the guy next to them.

Who cares what the level numbers are, have the expansions just add more high end PvE content for lvl20 players and you are fine.

Also for people shocked that they are talking 'expansion' already, look what last week was...freaking E3, if you dont talk about it there...it doesnt exist, and so goes the gaming world.

When the expansions come out, I'll be there with bells on. This game has completely blown away and replaced a MUD I played for 4+ years, and I intend to dance with the one that brought me, so to speak. It would definitely be nice to see a higher level cap and/or new plot point(s) in the expansion, but I'll be happy to at least give future expansions a chance, no matter what the additional content is.

Probably not if nothing is done about PvP grind.

It's very unusual that you have half of the people complaining about grind, and the other half complaining about how quickly people have become maxed out.
I guess it's impossible to please everyone.

Personally, I will pick up the expansion if I am still playing this game when the expansion comes out. Right now I am enjoying myself tremendously with this but I have a tendancy to lose interest in games pretty quickly. Since there's no monthly fee I may come back to it after a while of not playing... just like I did MANY times with Diablo II.

I am Bored!

Are You?

If the expansion has an auction house or a market or some easier way to buy/sell items, then I would definitely get it. If not, then I'd probably still get it anyway.

This could also help with the infinite "grind" problem that people seem to have a problem with. You could buy the items you need. I personally think you should have to quest for skills though. CREATE your character, you don't just get born with the ability to be a god. I find if you just play the game do the missions AND the quests you get the skills/items you want/need. Of course I'm not all that interested in PvP or GvG. If I wanted that, I'd play Unreal Tournament 2004 again or some other FPS where I could kill like a madman.

I agree that for you to compete in the High Level PvP that there is such massive grind to do so. High Level PvP is considered as being in the first page of the ladder, top 20 GvG'ing guilds. I like most of my guild had beaten the game 1 week after GW was released and we are still PREPARING to have fun. Fun for me is being in the same playing field as my opponents. That is taking forever because we are grinding for skills that we need for our team build, runes to maximize our efficiency and weapon upgrades to further to push the toons to their limit. Anyways, if the dev's fail to fix this grind for hardcore PvP'ers, A.net will be losing my support for their expansions and undoubtedly other players that left DAoC, WoW, and others to join this game for A.net's claim of no "preparing to have fun."

Couldn't agree more, people should enjoy the social side not rush through it, Im only lvl 14 and I bought it at release.

[PS: Is that Mr.Matt from GF?]

I'll most likely buy first expansion. After that will depend on what that expansion adds to the gameplay experience. Things like more armour choices, some mechanics to hasten the preparation for PvP, more condensed maps(I hate those huge maps with nothing interesting along the way), more PvE things to do and more PvP variety.

The level cap of 20 is fine with me. Its just a number and doesn't mean anything.

I just started my second character not long ago. To be honest, some of the quests that requires trekking through a couple of maps are getting on my nerves. Running and running with boring fights that does nothing except slowing you down. I wonder whether I'll be bored to death when I do it all again with the next character.

I feel bad for you. I've been having fun since the first time i logged in.

I will buy the expansion.

I think expansion packs have a good potential to be beneficial to the game for PvE. I will not even comment on PvP because at this time I've had no interest in PvP. Eventually I will venture in the PvP aspect of the game but for now I'm content working on 1 character and completing the game and quests, then trying a different character. I won't speak about something I know little of.

I feel expansion packs will only be beneficial if they do the following:
1 - they need to bring us new areas (we already know we are getting 2 so this is not one to worry about).
2 - expect to see newer items (armors, weapons, etc.).
3 - expect to see a level cap raise at least once a year (I say this because only a very small minority of people will have the possibility of being happy being level 20 after a number of expansion packs. RPGers enjoy the fact of achieving new levels, fighting new mobs around their levels, finding items, completing quests).
4 - expect to see new mobs (Hopefully not a lot of repetitive ones like renaming a scorpion all the time).
5 - adding new quests and missions.

Granted I do not think that anyone should expect to see all of these occur within one expansion, but from my perspective all of these should be a given within a year's time. I also have a feeling they may eventually make it harder to level up as fast. Yes the casual player does not want to spend hours upon hours trying to get one little level. They have intended the game for casual and hardcore players. However, people have to realize that if caps raise so will amount of xp required to level, which means you may have to do more quests and missions or form xp groups. Some games even for hardcore players required a weeks worth of xp groups @ 6 hours a day. I don't think this will happen here, but there will be a correlation and it's rightfully so. Level increase means + in amount of xp required.

I have a question and I mean this in all seriousness.

If after almost a month you are all still PREPARING to have fun, who are all these folks already playing and having fun in HoH?

They seem to be doing just fine without all these months of grinding out stuff, PREPARING to have fun.

I've said this more than once.. PvP folks are pulling the GRIND hats onto their own heads. Everyone has had the game the same amount of time, more or less. SO how is it that the people dominating HoH and the ladder are doing so while everyone else is still preparing themselves? The only reasonable answer is that they have went out and PLAYED. Oh I'm sure that they take their forrays into the drab world of PvE to find the odd skill or rune, but obviously these folks seem to have invested their time where it counts.. in the PvP portion of the game.

Sure.. In the end, the extra skills and equipment will give a more polished team an edge, but that doesn't mean you can't play and enjoy the game without all that crap. You folks are making yourselves miserable worrying about whether Guild X has a skill you and yours doesn't.. Quit griping and work in PvP to overcome it with what you have at hand.. Think of it as a bigger challenge. Guess what? When you do happen across that skill or rune you always dreamed of.. it will give you a bigger edge since you learned how to play without it in the first place.

I equate the current problem to what I see my oldest doing in school. When I was his age we had to actually sit down and practice math and English until we learned how to do it right in our own heads with minimal references. Only then were we allowed to use things like calculators and spell checkers on the computer to do our thinking for us. My son though can't manage to get through his math classes without a calculator because they have always allowed calulators and can't spell very well because they are supposed to use spell checkers on the computer instead of looking things up the old way by using a dictionary. He has to have his "crutches" or he just doesn't stand a chance of passing.

The current attitudes of many PvP folks reflects this sort thought process.. "I can't play if I don't have all the toys first". It just isn't so unless you all insist on making it that way.

I'd be willing to bet that if those of you that are doing the loudest complaining would just play the damn game and worry about the elites and runes as they come instead of thinking you can't play without them, you would find yourselves fairing a lot better in the end once everyone has them. But guess what.. That is what many of the folks on top are doing right now.. Sure they grind a bit, but they are working with what they have and getting steadily better while you are sitting on your duffs PREPARING.

SO grind away and wait and wait and convince yourself that you are just preparing.. but by the time you get around to actually playing everyone will have what you do. THe difference is that a lot of them will have been actually playing a perfecting the skills they have and been incorparating the new things as they acquire them and you will still find yourselves holding the short end of the stick.

Corwin, the problem is that many of the skills are balanced by their counters. With ~150 per class its almost required. If you have one of the counters, and they range in effectiveness, you are fine but if you don't have one then you are at a huge disadvantage. So the choice is, grind now for the counters or wait till someone beings something you don't have a counter to, get your butt kicked and then have to go grind to capture X skill. In addition it takes 8 people to make an effective team, not everyone can play at the same times and not everyone can play all roles. This means that the person who is your best warrior might not be able to play a warrior because he hasn't had the time to unlock the skills needed, the same is true of any of the roles. Right now time is far too important.

In many ways its the same kind of psychology that makes people want to get unpleasant tasks over with, so they aren't looming over your head. Tombs is easier to go into than GvG right now, because losing doesn't cost you anything.

she will be more than ticked as it will cost more than the usual 20 dollar expansion

they are talking in the 50 dollar range

OF COURSE THEY ARE OFFERING AN ENTIRE NEW CHAPTER THE SAME SIZE AS THE ORIGINAL GAME FOR THE MONEY

so maybe it is worth it

i will buy it if only to help keep them going for the fun i have had already

No need to be snippy. =/

I'm sure it will all be very fun and enjoyable. It's just that my partner was (as I was) under the impression it was all inclusive and he's going to be more annoyed/angry than I to find it is not.

For the record -- I wasn't complaining. I was merely pointing out that we were under the impression that it was all covered. As are many of our friends.

Perhaps no one at ArenaNet understands that at first blush, it does sound it... five of my friends who were trying to decide if they wanted to play have now decided not to because they feel as if the wording and lack of clarity with regard to 'chapters' is deliberately misleading.

Bleh. Just when I was starting to enjoy it, too. Oh well.

though it would be hard to do since it runs off a server, I think they should release an SDK and let the leet modders out there make weapons and armors and even items! that will raise game content fast and keep it newer and more exciting! Just let the developer say what is cool or notand can get in the game!

what is unclear about this?
the wording has been like that from the first mention so it hasnt been changed on you either

How much will Guild Wars cost? How much will additional chapters cost?

Guild Wars will be priced at a comparable cost to other first-tier PC games. The subsequent chapters of Guild Wars will also be comparably priced in relation to other games.

I will be buying the expansion, no doubt. What I want tho isn't so much more "stuff", like armors, classes, and items, even though they are pretty great too. What I am looking for is new game play options. Right now you have the Quest/PvP thing and that is all good, but there needs to be more PvP options for lower level characters and guilds. The random grouping, random map thing is ok, but it only serves to get the match going a quickly as possible. Add some of these "Capture the Relic" games to what's available, and some team vs. attacking monsters sort of things, then I would be very happy.

Some mini games would be awesome to. Like a simple card game people can play in the cities with one another. Something like Tetra Master, only within the game engine. Adding Taverns where you can hang out and play minigames would be really awesome. Imagine two guilds getting out of the arena and then competing at a game of darts over some virtual brews. It would really foster the community aspect of the game.

-F

i'll be buying all gw expansions. this game is just too much fun.

Part of what I enjoy about playing the game is going through the missions, learning new areas, doing quests for skills rather than outright buying them (if I even can at that time). I spend most of my time in PvE (though I enjoy PvP).

I'll be buying expansions because I want to buy them. Even just new areas to explore is enough for me.

I purchased the game having the realisation that I purchased a certain level of content. I do not expect freebies (side from requisite patches for balance/bugfixes). It's absurd to think you're going to get something for nothing.

What you have here is freedom.

I'm all over it. Can't wait.

Thorizdin pretty much answered most of your questions. I'll try to address certain points that you are trying to make and see if we are understanding each other.

They are the people that went through the grind to unlock the right skills to withstand the environment of Hall of Heroes. An environment where aoe damage and heals reign supreme to beable to kill 2 groups at the same time and heal 2 groups worth of damage. I'll show an example as to support Thorizdin's point about counters. At the moment a very viable build for holding HoH is stacking Balthazar's aura and protective/healing enchantments on the hero. By having the right skill, which would be Well of Profane, this enchantment stacking strategy is no longer a threat and can be dealt with at ease. But since during the times that my guild can get together to do something, we are missing that one person that has Well of Profane and we won't even have a chance in fighting in this current meta-game. You can suggest that we bring Rend Enchantments instead, but that is too costly and the amount of Rend Enchantments that you need to bring to have the same effect as Well of Profane is ridiculous. And in doing so you'll be sacrificing certain skills from the team build also.


That's a pretty fat claim to make. Do you personally know these people?

Wrong. I know for a fact that people hasn't played the same amount of time. I know tons of people that had unlocked 80% of the total skills, while I only had unlocked 20% of the skills and of that 20% only 1% of that are elites. Now of course these numbers are just for relative purposes. And how you term PvP folks sounds like that you aren't even going through the same things that we are going through. Unless you are a hardcore PvP'er with your sights and goals aimed for the first page of the ladder, you'll never understand by discussing it here in the forums.

Sorry to tell you this but, those same people put their hours in to grind out those necessary skills and items. to hold HoH and dominate in the ladder.

I think my guild invested enough of our time in PvP. I hail from the guild of The Cornerstone, and we were ranked 14th before this weekend with 15-0 record. And this was done last week where the GvG compitetion was getting worthy and known good guilds started playing GvG. If you been watching closely to the ladder those people that were dominating in GvG in the first week with their rag tag builds of random skills and no runes have now been wiped out of the ladder. They have no fighting chance against those guilds that strategize and design their builds for their playstyle and meta game. I might be talking to the wind here, if you aren't a hardcore PvP'er as you'll never understand till you become one.

Sigh, the rest of your post definitely shows lack of understanding of where PvP'ers stand in this game and the effect of the current game environment. And you being an outsider, you won't understand all the subtleties that the PvP environment has, which makes the PvP in this game so great, btw.

The thing is that Guild X will have that skill that will trump the skill that we are running, and that makes the difference. That is exactly the point. Is that others will be putting in the hours so that they have all the toys and I won't have anything to counter theirs. Most Hardcore good PvP players don't want an edge over their competitors. That doesn't offer much of a compitetion and a good game to be played if you are demolishing other people. We just want to have a level playing field where the items/skills in the game won't stand in the middle of determining who had better playing/gaming abilities to win.

If you are saying that us hardcore PvP'ers don't know what skills do and that's why we need this grind to help us teach the game, then you are greatly mistaken. Ironically, it is because of our knowledge of the game mechanics that had placed us in this situation to grind for all those skills and items to be able to fight in the HIGH LEVEL PVP. We know better not to have certain skills going into fights so we don't do so till we can. Sorry man, but this analogy is wrong.

Once again, wait until you enter our world, the world of us PvP folks as you aptly termed us, before you make such a post with outrageous claims and misunderstandings.

I will buy the expansion the second it is released. As for the whiners, can I have your stuff?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe ArenaNet ever said that you wouldn't have to play in PvE to get skills not available on premade characters. You can be competitive in PvP with your max level, maxdam weapon, max af armor, and premade skills. You just can't be flexable with that character. You fill a clearly defined role. If you want to play a different role, then try a different premade. If you want to define your own role, and choose your own skills, then you need to unlock these skills through PvE.

Nobody is forcing you to do that. This doesn't mean that ArenaNet lied, or that you "have" to grind. You have to play PvE to get those skills.

Please come to grips with this simple fact.

I will!, and kind of in spite of those "crapy" players that just ride on the backs of other good players...

I want them to add an area in which you can only have 1-2 players to run through something small but challenging (in where you actually need to have stradegy and think), and have that area go to some special HARD mission in where you'll only be able to find Good stradegizing players (and a few stragglers that managed to get past it)...

I know my idea doesnt abide to the public, but i dont like saying "Attack the healer!!!" and then clicking the ctr+space just to have people attack something else (that isnt dieing because of the healers), and then there's those that start running away from the battle once ONE person dies (Something that reminds me of frontline war in the old days)-(Scared runners... too bad it's just a game, and you dont get a bad death penalty)... they just start shouting run, and then the group slits... even tho if you stay and fight add ons with a good solid group, you wont have much of a problem... maybe just a few deaths, but its better then having to start over completely ^.^

Speak for yourself and the others that do think like you... Those of us that Love the pvp, and understnad the fact that this game is more based on its pvp (as noticed by the time involved in balancing)

Seriously... they have already stated it MANY times that the lvl 20 cap Will NEVER change... that's the point in ascention, and the reason its so hard to get past those trials... it's to actually make you good at pvp if you havent noticed...

And the things that we will be going after is New skills, and New stradegies... the idea of having "Elite" skills is making it easier for them to balance, since if there's a combo that's "too" good, then they can simply make it elite, which i saw done many times through betas.

And really, there's already been a poll for this, and the majority has spoken for the liking of this game...

**If you don't like the 20 maximum, and dont like the idea of playing a new kind of game, out of a breed of boring crap, then really... play the other boring grinds, because you're not ready for the revolution...**

--**The attribute points wouldnt be able to go up any higher to keep in balancing, and there should be no higher lvl of armors, so really, all you'd gain after a lvl 20 is more health... which will off balance the point of runes lowering health by their certain amounts... THINK about the actual balancing issues that will have to occur before speaking**--
**-- i stress my idea's aggresively because anet listens to the public and this is something i hope i can spark up some contraversy about. I really want this pvp to stay Great--**

Your comprehension needs work That last statement still sounds like a complaint

As for the intent of the thread... I will be purchasing any expansions that I find interesting... which just might be all of them.

As long as the co-op missions (and quests) require some thought and aren't over-simplified I will be fine. If the challenges become too easy, that's where I become bored. It wouldn't hurt if the quests had some other things to figure out instead of "Go to X and defeat X" (and then warp back). Don't misinterpret what I am saying here... that game element is fine, I enjoy that too. However, something like "Go to X and return with X via X road/pass" (or something like that) where you have to find an item and return it via a new route (not just by warping) I find much more appealing.

One other note... I haven't done any PvP yet and will be, but I don't entirely agree with forcing the PvE element to unlock skills for use solely with PvP. If there was a way to have something like a "Guild Signet" that would allow the user to extract skills for use by any guild PvP members, that would be cool. I can see their argument from the other side of the fence and I know I wouldn't have fun doing something I wouldn't like.

Anyhow... I will be purchasing expansions

.... Arm wrestle you for it?

I bought this game the day it went gold and I'm not even done just -looking- at everything. When the expansions come along my only concern is if they will be made necessary, as in "You can't play anymore without these or your game will screw up."

The structural changes in Guild Wars has made it even better than in the beta, skills being obtained by quests (rather than merely purchaced) makes both PvP and PvE more interesting. For me, part of the fun is to create the best build with the available skills and items at any time.

The whiners seem to be playing a different game than me.

Only regret is that the difficulty level was toned down, you are too high a level for the content most of the time. But the new content will presumably be for level 20 characters, so that shouldn't affect the expansion.

Oh, and that the expansion is a year away. I believ for a casual player the content is more like 6 month worth of gaming.

I do take the "as much new content as the original game" literally though. I expect the map to double in size, same for unique types of monsters, items and skills. Several new types of PvP games. At least two new professions. Much more customization of appearence. Maybe less in some areas if we get more in others.

I do expect the level cap to stay the same, because it is such a good idea and those who play for the thrill of the ding will already have found other games.

The new skills and items will no more powerful than the old, but they will open up for new combinations, and the whiners who now claim they need all skills and items to be competitive, will of course with then claim they need the expansion to stay competitive and that ArenaNet therefore lied (again). Such is the nature whiners.

They have already stated that in no way will the expansions be required purchases to keep playing.

If any of the expansions are even half as enjoyable as this, I'm gonna have to say that I'll buy each and every one of them. (just don't tell my wife! ) I have played many many many rpg's and many many many other games from sports games to fps's and without a doubt in my mind this one is the most fun I've ever had. And this is coming from a former Black Hawk Down and D2 junkie. Of course the main reason I quit playing those games was the amount of cheating and hack programs that people felt the need to use. Fortunately this game appears to be free of that type of influence, for now. Because no matter how much we would all like to keep this game hack free, there will be someone out there trying to hack it. Some sad, lonely guy living in his parents basement, rubbing peanut butter all over his face and wearing his gotch on his head. (of course that's just the way I picture all those cheaters) Here's what I really think of cheaters.

^ Wow. How do you follow that?



I will be getting the expansion for myself and my wife. And so will most of our friends.

Can't wait. Even though I'm only level 13 and haven't even made it past Yak's Bend yet...(stupid Beastriders...)

Well for a game that is suppose to be made for BOTH casual and hardcore PvP & PvE if they do not change it and add stuff they will lose 90% of players who like to do more than PvP. Especially since no one wants to be stuck at same thing their entire life and achieve nothing. Adding more areas to explore and quests that do nothing for you is pointless. Maybe you're correct they won't change it, then the game will largely flop because it has attracted both RPG and PvP for the time being. I'm not saying they need to take away from PvP or change anything. I never said that PvP was bad in this game. But for majority of RPG'ers they are not going to want to be 20 for the rest of their experience in this game. If that is the case then they are basing their thinking that everything in this game is going to push you to PvP. You'll only change your character and jobs so many times before thinking this is old, I'm tired of being just 20. More items, quests, missions, raised cap gives RPG'ers something else to do. I honestly can't say I know what everyone thinks but from my experience I am certain most will be leaving this game if they have it ends up that way.

I respect your thoughts on PvP and the aspects of it. I have already admitted I do not know much about PvP aspect yet because I haven't done it religiously. I don't think they have to change anything for it, if they do I'm sure they know what it is.

But if Anet wants to keep more than just the PvP'ers they are going to have to start changing their line of thoughts because in the long run their idea to create a good game (I think it is at this point and time, one of the best) like this will sink them. New areas and quests that give nothing except maybe a skill (especially xp that means didly squat) will lead to the loss of many players.

Some people actually like to play PvE just to enjoy....the playing....the atmosphere...the monster bashing w/friends...and yes, the item finding - not all of us play so much that we find 'everything' in a matter of weeks.

PvE is not always about experience and more levels and I for one don't need them to 'have fun'.

I just don't understand the obsession with levels - not just in this game, but any game. Whoohoo, a few more hit points and mana points. I remember all the people in D2 mindlessly doing Cow Runs (and 'leeching' experience to boot) because they were desperate to get to lvl 99 as fast as possible, completely ignoring the rest of the game. Talk about 'pointless?'

Levleing up, it's a game design that's been around so long, many people seem unable to concieve of being without it. Maybe it's time that changed somewhat. I didn't play Monopoly because my Shoe gained levels, and don't play Scrabble or Poker because I gain numerical levels.

Now, of course some new content needs to be added once in a while to keep things 'fresh' and interesting - but numerical levels is not one of them, IMO.

That's not inlcuding the fact that you have a lot jobs to hit the level cap. 74 to 75 alone takes about 3 weeks of solid playing. FFXI ate my life

in this case LEVELING=INFLATION

difficulty remains challenging and only the number of your level changes

OH WAIT i forgot

if you have a higher level than somebody you can brag about it (on the other hand if that is worth bragging to you you are pathetic and have my pity)

Exactly. Whoopdedo.

Oh..and I forgot to add...I'll probably buy the expansion...at least the first one, maybe all of them. If only, as others have said, to support the makers and help ensure the servers are still there whenever I want to return to the game if I take a break from it now and then, which I'm sure I will. No game is 'enough' forever or without breaks.

To #4 - Yes!! I get so tired of seeing the same monster with a different color and monster level. The Hydras were nice to see when I got to the Desert.

To #5 - Another big yes to missions that will progress a storyline along the way. Quests are ok, but I love the storylines of the missions.

There is no comprehension problem when you haven't seen something. And yeah, finding out expansions are not free when you thought they were tends to be a big deal when you're on a budget. Not all of us have lots of recreational income, thanks.

Guildwars is our last attempt to enjoy MMOs. We're sick and tired of monthly fees, we're sick and tired of expansions that punish you for not buying them. AreaNet says you won't need to have the expansions to play, but who do they think they're fooling? Unless you're totally playing solo, there is going to be a real problem with not having expansions available to you. Just because they do not make them functionally mandatory doesn't mean they are not required purchases in all but the literal sense.

No one is asking you to agree, like it, or whatever. My initial post was merely expressing surprise, later expressing disappointment. No idea why some people feel as if they have to comment, or that their need to point out where there's been a misunderstanding actually contributes to things.

Sorry about the direct attack Cindaire... but it really bugs me when peeps don't research things totally and then make a fuss about it. The FAQ is chocked full of information about having to buy expansions.

http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html#release

Personally, I'm on a budget as well and the fact that I'm not pouring money into an MMO each month is great! There are months when I don't have much gametime available and this works out quite well for me since I don't feel it's a money sink and get discouraged just because I didn't get to play much in that month.