Guild Wars: PvE or PvP, which is it?

Forgive my asking, but I was under the assumption (my mistake) that GW was basically a pve game with a pvp aspect within the game.
You start in a tutorial area to learn techniques and experience play (Pre Searing) then furthur the adventure into the whole world area (Post Searing). I have tried to play in post but found it to be essentially only a primer for the almighty pvp. I am desperately trying to give the game a fair shake. There are things I could rant, complain, and b@#$h about for days, even weeks, but I am just trying to get a grasp of which game we are playing. If this game is just about the PvP arena fights, sorry I don't need it. Counterstrike, Unreal, ect... already have that and I choose not to play. (Proving my dial-up is slower and laggy isn't that hard to accomplish.)
I bought the game out of a sense of adventure and losing myself to a world of fantasy and graphic illusion. Again, I thought the game was about PvE. Not a tutorial for PvP
I have nothing against PvP. Great way to relieve stress fragging others, I'm all for that. I played (and still play) Diablo 2 LOD and love the story and quest etc..., but the PvP aspect is just a part of that game not the major focus. In Guild Wars, it seems the only focus is to get to the PvP arena. Each quest and mission pushing you further toward the supposed goal of PvP.
Take it or leave it my question remains; Is Guild Wars primarily PvE or PvP? If it is PvP, don't mislead the buyer just state it is a PvP on the box and in the promotional stuff. If it is PvE then try to develop a litte leeway for users not to be plowed into the PvP aspect. I can't explore and adventure along the way if I have to do certian exact (PvP leading) quest and missions to further the game. I hope the developers address this issue somewhere along the way in patches and expansions. I cannot see a future for the game if PvP is all there is to it.

Its both, you are NOT REQUIRED to do either you can PICK one or the other or do both.
I have highlighted some of the words because soon there will be several people responding that to be good or competetive in PvP you MUST do the PvE, so to be clear I am NOT picking side just stating the game is what you make it and it is set to do both.

Diablo2 was a unbalanced "pK" game. The story line sucked, and all you had to do was buy stuff off ebay and get "godly OMFGPWNEDz0RJOOO" items, and you win. it was full of people who only pvp and steal gold. it was a total waste of time.

The game is actually pretty well balanced betwen the two sides. PvP players view the PvE content, which by the way is probably 90% or better of the total, as nothing more than a trainer/filler/annoyance to PvP.

On the otherhand PvE players find the RP side of things rather immersive and feel like PvP is a side game to what THEY prefer doing. THe game missions are constructed fairly linearly, but are for the most part bypassable if you don't want to do them. There are a few that you HAVE to do to progress, but not many. The entire range of EA's are available for playing in with a lot of room for good old fashion exploration.

Unless there is a drastic change, the expansions and add-on areas will primarily be RP in nature, with new bosses and things. Other than the new bosses in those areas, they are not something that PvP folks will likely need to play unless they have quests for some of the skill acquisition that those folks see as a desperate need.

All in all though the game is set to work well for all players, but you will find that there are some folks in either camp that will never be happy with the game unless ANet ditches their entire development plan and caters strictly to those folks that complain the most.

It's what ever you want it to be. I tried a PvP character for a couple of fights, didn't like it, stuck with my PvE characters. As has been said, nobody forces you to do either.

It's PvE primarily as far as I'm concerned. The arena's cross over but are by no means the only goal. If you've ever played EQ they had a game called gems to while away the time. PvP is like that, some people play that all the time is all.

Underworld, Fissure, heck even the desert is some great PvE.

It was very tough to find groups and get the feel like a PvE as far as community goes, but it comes more and more. For me it was level 13 that was the turning point.

Why do you feel the PvE stuff is pushing you towards PvP? It's simply group play using the same dynamics as PvP, while not really being much like PvP (npc intelligence / improvisation for example)

and unless you got a different box and go to a different guildwars website than I do then it should have been fairly easy to discern that PvP is a large element of the game as a whole.

What you have is a game where you PvE until you peak at which point you continue to PvE for the fun / story / exploration whhatever or raise the stakes and prove your worth against real people for fame and glory .

in their words from the Game FAQ:

What kind of game is Guild Wars?

Guild Wars is a global online roleplaying game. Players can engage in cooperative group combat, in single player adventures, or in large head-to-head guild battles. Guild Wars is a mission-based game set in a stunning 3D fantasy world that offers excellent support for guilds. Because the team that is developing Guild Wars has had experience creating successful online game series such as Warcraft, StarCraft and Diablo, the members are familiar with the complex issues surrounding online games, and are creating a game that is both easy to learn and compelling to play long term, and yet does not require players to spend hundreds of hours slogging through the preparation just to get to the fun bits.

Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?
Guild Wars has some similarities to existing MMORPGs, but it also has some key differences. Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment. Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world. Players can meet new friends in gathering places like towns and outposts where they form parties and go questing with them. Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place. This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs, such as spawn camping, kill stealing, and lines to complete a quest.
Guild Wars takes place in a large virtual world made up of many different zones, and players can walk from one end of the world to the other. In Guild Wars much of the tedium of traveling through the world has been eliminated. Players can instantly return to any safe area (town or outpost) that they have previously visited just by clicking on it in the world overview map.

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild. As characters progress, they acquire a diverse set of skills and items, enabling them to use new strategies in combat. Players can do battle in open arenas or compete in guild-vs-guild warfare or the international tournament. Engaging in combat is always the player's choice, however; there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world.

Finally, unlike existing MMOs, all characters in Guild Wars inhabit the same virtual world -- they are not divided onto different servers or shards -- so players can always team up with or compete against any other player in the world.

Can my character be killed by other players?

While Guild Wars has player vs. player combat, you are in control. You can choose to join in competitive missions and receive acclaim for winning against other gamers, or you can reap the rewards of solo adventures or cooperative team missions with an entirely different set of challenges.
Will the game have guild support? Will there be ladders and tournaments?

Guild Wars, as evidenced by its name, will have broad support for game guilds, including integrated support for worldwide tournaments and ladders, the ability for a guild to own and operate a guildhall, private guild forums, and more. You can find the current Guild Wars Ladder on this link.
Do you have to be in a guild to play Guild Wars?

Membership in a guild is not required to play Guild Wars. Although there are many positive aspects to belonging to a guild, players will have access to a wide variety of solo adventuring possibilities as well as team cooperative and competitive missions that will ensure you of many of those gaming sessions that run into the wee hours, no matter your playing style. Missions will come in all sizes and difficulties and can be joined individually, as part of a one-time team or as a member of a full-fledged guild.

yeah... a lot of people like to say it's one or the other but (to echo what most of the replies have been) it's both. I read so much about people who do nothing but PvP yet so far I've logged almost twice the average hours I spend on any one adventure game and I've barely scratched the surface.

The game is totally what you make it.

stick to pve for now until they fix all the balance issues with pvp

I've spent over 40 hours playing nothing but PvE, and I'm not even 40% through the game. If you want to PvE, there is plenty of content to keep you satisfied (and more on the way!).

...and there's PvP available when you want a break from PvE.

What's not to like?

This is speculation, and very likely to incorrect. Arena.net hasn't announced what they are going to add, but they have made it clear that there will be additions for PvP, though they (supposedly) won't be required to be competitive.

This sounds like you believe there are a large number of balance issues, care to elaborate?

Chalt2 "you are NOT REQUIRED to do either"
True, but if I want to get to Yak's Bend area I must go through excessive mobs repeatedly (trying not to die repeatedly and have the dreaded 60%DP) or start all over. Quest and mission repeatedly trying not to die or start over. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. Just to get to the next area.
1/2_ Extreme "Diablo2 was a unbalanced "pK" game" All opinions are valid, but not the issue I am asking about. I was using the example as a point of reference only, not stating a value. The game was initially designed for the RPG player. Abuse of the pk and other issues are not my reference.

Corwin Andros "The game is actually pretty well balanced betwen the two sides."
Role Playing PvE is either primary or secondary it cannot be both at the same time. D2LOD was in essence RPG PvE first and foremost PvP was an option you could choose. Partying was an option, but not a necessity to successfully explore the game. GW has areas, quest, missions (North Of The Wall etc...) where your choice to go it alone is just absolutly not possible. Fight, die, repeat. There is a dominating theme in GW and I get spammed excessively from the "Hall Of Heros" about that centralized primary theme.

Shamblemonkee "Why do you feel the PvE stuff is pushing you towards PvP?"
To get from area to area I must trudge forward in an endless maze of invisible walls toward the next quest point and mission. Oh, I could stay in Ascalon repeatedly killing monsters to no avail (no xp etc..), but in order to truly explore and advance I must complete the missions and quest (no option) absolutely must not die or start over with a penalty that makes success of the quest even harder to a point of being tedious. No xp pushes you through. You want to go to new areas you must complete missions and quest.
You want to advance your character to the next level, then you must complete the missions and quest. If I force your hand that is pushing.

"unless you got a different box"
collector's edition

"Guild Wars is a global online roleplaying game. Players can engage in cooperative group combat, in single player adventures, or in large head-to-head guild battles."
RPG? Spam from Hall Of Heros (PvP Arena) every 5 minutes.
Single player adventures? Uncompleteable missions and quest like North of the Wall

"While Guild Wars has player vs. player combat, you are in control. You can choose to join in competitive missions and receive acclaim for winning against other gamers, or you can reap the rewards of solo adventures or cooperative team missions with an entirely different set of challenges."
Solo adventures? Where can you solo other than pre You'll get killed by mobs of up to ten monsters trying to solo I know 60%DP says so. Monsters below a certian level, No XP. Mobs of 5 to 8 level 6 Charr will desimate your solo adventure level 8 character in about 20 seconds regardless of your character build and armor and weapon. You cannot heal as fast as you can die. Oops, your character died 15%dp now you die in 10 seconds, 30%dp die faster. Wanna start over? You cannoot level your character til you get past these mobs. Whoops you died again, 15%dp do keep trying. It is like a rigged carnival game Oh, that's right you've got to get help for this part. (solo?)

Sorry for the diatribe, but appearently your game and mine are different. Guild Wars Official Statement
"Guild Wars is a global online roleplaying game"
RPG first or PvP masked as a RPG? If RPG, why the PvP heavy content? If RPG, Why the excessive PVP spamming every 5 minutes? If RPG, why so much focus on Guild Of The Week and builds for PvP?
Walks like a PvP, Smells like a PvP, Looks like a PvP, Acts like a PvP, but clearly delinated as a RPG PvE. Hmm...??? Sorry, I am still looking for the solo mission stuff advertised, mabey it is hidden between those invisible walls?

Ok i think I made the mistake of thinking you were genuinely interested or cared - not that you just wanted to bash the game.

I have no idea what it is you're looking for or expected (I assume you had previous interest if you got the collectors box), but:

> I've yet to encounter a uncompletable mission (bully for me youmight say) andi fail to see how this relates to the point you're responding too - solo play (i.e just you) and your next point is about a quest where you need one other person, the only other time an extra person is actually been required is for the res signet - I'm now level 15 and haven't grouped other than with a friend (5 times) more than once.

> The death penalty is not harsh at all if you compare it to many other games of this sort, plus the enemies stay dead if you don't exit the map. the only time a death is a real pain is the missions

> You can be picky about the definition of solo if it makes you happy....

> You seem to havenot read the sentences after "Guild Wars is an online roleplaying game", so I'll include them again here "Players can engage in cooperative group combat, in single player adventures, or in large head-to-head guild battles. Guild Wars is a mission-based game set in a stunning 3D fantasy world that offers excellent support for guilds."

Valid points you do raise are invisible walls and monsters with no xp value always attacking you. I'd add not enough character customisation and slightly floaty movement - but that should go in a suggestions forum.

You seem to want an offline hero game in the vein of morrowind where you're the only guy in a vast world you can explore endlessly or something..... correct me if I'm wrong. I realise i probably come off as a GW fanboy but other than where I've said I agree I feel you're bitching because you want too, but that your idea of what the game was supposed to deliver is clearly not in line with the stated aims of the developers.

It's both, dude. You can choose the path of PvE and do missions, quests, and PvP. Or, if you're really impatient and not into RP aspect, you can just dive right into PvP without leveling up-- kind of like FPS games where you just join and play.

i think of it as PVE with a few sandboxes here and there for the PVP crowd and i get the rest of the playground

they have theirs and i have mine

we both win

Does it matter what others think it is? It will obviously vary person to person as per their preference in gaming style.

I for one choose PvE for the storyline and RP aspect of it, however I enjoy some PvP for nearly-mindless fighting fun when I do not care to roam around forever for enemies to hunt down and such.

The game is what you make of it, either you will find PvE to be your choice or PvP. Opinions of everyone else shouldn't really matter, then again mine don't count either using my own advice... hmmm... interesting to think about eh?

Are you literally trying to 'solo' the missions, or are you bringing henchpeople? That's what they're there for. You're still playing by yourself.

Guild Wars was designed as a competitive PVP MMORPG...and just happens to have a PVE experience which is far more immersive than any other MMORPG (although the plot and voiceacting leave a bit to be desired.)

Diablo 2, on the other hand, was purely a PVE game with what I call "PVP activated". Just like most other MMORPGs, it's balanced for PVE and PVP is a crappily-designed sideshow.

Really? I never noticed that in the game descriptions anywhere. In fact, it sounded as if it were a PvE game with a nice PvP content. If I did, I would not have bought it.

As far as a PvE experience, c'mon now. An RPG with a clvl cap of 20 is a joke. Practically no character development after lvl 20 is not what people look forward to when they play a game of this type. Once people get over their initial excitement and get to lvl 20 for one or 2 characters (at most) this game will be dead, with no drastic changes to char development. You'll see.
As far as PvP... heh, this ain't Counterstrike. Conterstrike in a fantasy world setting? Yeh, sure. That's surely going to work well on a long term basis, the pace is just as fast and furious.....



-A

Indeed. Post-sear is all but impossible without a team of either human or AI allies.

RPG != PvE

Not that I think the game lacks in PvE. "Invisible Walls" and "Mission Driven Storyline" do not have anything to do with the PvE or RPG classifications.

PvE means Player versus Environment. You are certainly fighting mobs over and over... sounds like PvE to me.

RPG = Roleplaying Game. How is a Mission Driven Storyline NOT considered roleplaying? I'd guess that the majority of CRPGs are Mission Driven, and that the storyline won't progress until you do X, Y, and Z. Morrowind and Elder Scrolls are about the only examples that AREN'T like that... yet they're not the only RPGs in existance. In fact, Fable (XBox RPG) is quite similar to GW from the PvE/RPG side, and was a very recent release, and highly acclaimed.

Sounds to me like you're disappointed that you can't explore in any old random direction. Exploration has nothing to do with RPG, and I wouldn't say there's much to it in the PvE side of the equation, either. If you want an online game world with lots to randomly explore, why not try EQ2?

GW is a unique cross between your standard single player CRPG with a linear, mission driven story line and an MMO. It provides lots of people the ability to participate with each other in the linear missions. If you don't like that... fine. Don't play. Try the more standard MMOs with a more Morrowind/Elder Scrolls approach that don't really require you to do ANY quests/missions, and give you 360 degree freedom of movement.

the clear fact of the matter is, you do not have to pvp to enjoy pve. that is, if you don't count the 2 min "training" after graduating the academy. In fact, the only real, single link between pve and pvp is the sigil requirement for a guild hall -- an item that is a must for pvp guilds and cosmetic for pve guilds. It is quite possible to never step foot in a pvp area at all if that tickles your fancy.

However, you cannot escape pve if you're only interested in pvp. The runes, the weapon mods, and most importantly the skills are found in pve and thus require you to farm, farm, and grind respectively.

Again the same argument and again the same narrow view of the entirity of the people that are playing it for any number of different reasons. Your statment implies that THE ONLY way for someone to be good, respectable, to have even thr remotest chance to be compeetive in PvP is to have all the runes, skills, weapons and everything else the game has to offer and if they don't then they'll not be able to even make a good show. Isn't it true that what you are saying is only in regards to HoH and NOT any GvG or basic PvP in any of the other arenas? Wouln't someone that might stop by and read your posts and the others like it maybe get the impression that being able to PvP with their lvl 10 war ind post ascalon was going to be a waste of time because they don't have all the uber gear, is THAT the short sighted message you are purveying?

Is it not possible that there MIGHT be somepeople that are JUST looking for a fun game to PLAY?

Is it not possible that there might be someone that is comming to this game for the first time and would like to try some PvPor even PvP only but would like to take it slow and learn before they jump into HoH?

Why is it always ALL or nothing ?

narrow view, or a wider perspective than you can truly hope for?

cant you simply play for the fun of it without being on the top of the ladder?

what is wrong with being on the 3rd or 5th page if you are having fun?

Because if having fun is subjective. For many people the challenge of getting to the top is the fun part.

I think what I'll miss most from Everquest was "the raid target." Correct me if I'm wrong (and I hope I am), there is no event in Guild Wars where you and a few groups of your friends fight "a raid boss."

The raid boss was the ultimate PvE experience.

Gearing up was necessary to survive those "end game" PvE experiences.

It'd be nice to see some mega PvE stuff like that in later expansions.

UnderWorld and Fissure of Woe is very challenging for PvE

It's both PvP and PvE.

And I love it.

Yes, really.

As someone who has designed games in the past, it's very apparent that GW was designed from the ground up for PVP. Mostly in terms of the skill system and how combat plays out. Enemy mobs act far more like an opposing team in PVP than the random ragtag mobs you meet in other MMORPGs - particularly because there's no Taunt skill (taunt in MMORPGs reduces the already low intellect of the mobs - forcing them to make even worse decisions in how they attack the human party.)

Naturally just because a game was designed from the ground up for PVP, that doesn't mean you can't add a very compelling PVE aspect on top of it - and I feel that's what GW managed to accomplish.

As for advancement? I actually love the fact that post-Ascension advancement is purely made through skill. For me I don't need some ficitious number in a database (ie character level) to tell me I'm cooler and more powerful. I enjoy beating hard scenarios purely through skill and teamwork, and I look forward to ever-harder dungeons being implemented by the GW team. My 'characters' in games like Gradius, Half-life 2, Metal Gear Solid, and Dawn of War didn't level up - those games were fun to beat simply because the gameplay was a blast!

Again, I enjoy those post-Ascension scenarios more because you cannot simply level up to make them easier to beat. You actually have to be skilled to win (sort of a "real world" character development if you will - it's your team's skill level vs. the mission).

In other forums I've openly stated that this style of gameplay (favoring the skilled) won't appeal to everyone. In fact, it's games that favor newbies and don't care about your player skill that are most popular (The Sims, Everquest, WoW, etc), because anyone can be successful in them regardless of their ability! No matter how good you actually are, the game tells you you're cool, you're powerful, etc. Naturally those styles of games will be far more popular than games where only the minority (the skilled) are told they are cool/powerful.

Nothings wrong with being on the 3rd or 5th page if I'm having fun doing it. However, character setup (and to a larger extent team setup) is something that keeps me interested as well as simply having fun in tombs and gvg. If I know there are tools out there that I could be using if I put in 50+ more repetitive hours in order to make my character better overall, and that there are others who have already done so, that makes it less fun, especially when you go into battle knowing you are at a disadvantage simply because of time spent.

You can't classify pvp simply between the hardcore pvpers who have to have everything in order to be at the top, and the very casual pvpers who are content with the premade paladin. There definitely is a middle ground there who are affected negatively by the grind.

OK, let me put it this way. When you bought the game what was the expectation or belief of what the game was? Did you purchase the game looking at it as a primarily PvE or a Primarily PvP based game?

I apologize for the ranting and venting about single player being an impossibility, but when someone asked for clarification the examples were overtaken by my frustration and disappointment at the lack of options available. Didn't set out to bash the game or point out each percieved flaw. I wasn't trying to open "Pandora's Box" here! Just asking if we were playing a PvE or a PvP? This is only my fourth experience with "Online" gaming. I don't play any PvP games cause regardless of skills, macros, etc.... I will lose every time. I am on a dial-up (42.6 Kbps) in the sticks and yes that is my only option. PvP is useless to me the broadbands and DSLs will own me every time. I've only ever played Diablo, Diablo 2 LOD, and Knights online. Now Guild Wars. If this is only for the PvPers thanks but no thanks can't even come close to competing in that league. If this is for the PvE then as Picard said, "Make it so Number One!"

With that being said......When you bought the Guild Wars game were you led to believe it was a PvE or a PvP? My first sentence about my assumption that it was a PvE is where I am coming from. I am extremely pleased with the rich graphics and the customization options etc... my likes and dislikes aside, Not looking for sympathy or starting a bitch session or trying for the most flamed crown I am asking each person here;

When you bought the Guild Wars game were you led to believe it was a PvE or a PvP?

Did you purchase the game based on that expectation?

Did you find that the expectation and the product were what you expected?

I am asking the game designers is this a true PvE with a PvP option or is this a PvP masked and marketed as a PvE? (Basically Unreal Tournament with a tutorial to unlock special skills and items and attacks)

Thanks for your insights I'll look into the whole henchmen thing as soon as the Guild Wars page finishes loading (heck, I only clicked to open it 3 days ago it should be up anytime )

I play PVE exclusively and probably will for the next few months. I do think there will be a point where all thats left is PVP (but even that could change with more content added).

So no I wouldnt say you have to do much of any PVP. For me it's one huge adventure.

I'm not a designer (just the geek who gets to talk to all of you), but I think i can speak on their behalf. Put simply:

Guild Wars is both.

The game has a strong mission-based and quest-based storyline, with plenty of map zones to explore and beat stuff up in. In many Explorable Areas you can play solo, but the game is not really designed for true solo gameplay. The game is designed to be a multiplayer experience, however you can always choose to ignore the other human players and use NPC Henchmen instead; effectively allowing you to play with a solo experience.

Guild Wars also has a strong PvP component that many players enjoy.

You are not required to play PvP (except when you go through the Academy and may be placed in a brief PvP encounter) if you are not interested in it. Many players have noted above that they find the PvE in Guild Wars to be very enjoyable. It's worth noting that those who want to get the most out of PvP in Guild Wars need to complete the PvE side of the game, so in that regard in can be said that PvE comes first and PvP later as an option.

With regards your comments about the Hall of Heroes "spam" I need to point out that this is present to make sure that PvE players know when they can enter some special PvE maps available later in the game. These maps are unlocked by teams who are playing PvP in the HoH.

However, going back to the short answer: We feel that Guild Wars should be enjoyable for both PvE and PvP players alike. If you don't want to PvP, then simply ignore that part of the game.